Day 0/new member

GrateClips

Active Member
Hi @GrateClips

Nice to have you back. That’s spectacular news about sex being back on the table for you. I realise there are concerns but it’s massive progress. If I read you right, you are hard mode….so no ejaculation in 5 months. How did you/are you coping with that? I am approaching 90 days hard mode and have been through a lot of varieties of hell. Libido issues? Erections?
I repeat, nice to have you back. You inspire.

Yes I am hardcore mode. I have had two weight dreams, one early on which was very large, and a second one which was kind of small/interrupted. I suppose that helps with the physical "pressure" if you will although oddly I've noticed that 5 months in I don't feel the whole feeling of heaviness that I used to get when I was actively acting out and PMO where if I went say a week without release I felt crazy and pressured.

I don't know if this is kind of a flatline thing I am still experiencing. It is nice to not feel like you need relief but its also disconcerting in a way... so many years sex and PMO was what I did, and now that its not been active I'm almost scared to wonder if that part of me even works .

Libido seems to be coming back slowly. Morning erections haven't really been a huge issue. I think my problems are all in my head.. I had been having some PIED before I went and quit PMO. So my last experiences with sex have been rather underwhelming but there were times it was just fine. Again, trying to tell myself its not about me its about being with someone else.

Having said that being told sex may be coming "soon" has also been really messing with my mind. Today in particular, both of us were off early, no kids in house. IN the past this was often the perfect time for us. Today though its clearly not happening and I feel incredibly uncomfortable bringing this up. Seeing as how she has already indicated its happening but on her schedule.

Anyways I kind of in some ways feel it would have just been easier if she had just kept it to herself and instead I would have continued monk mode and been surprised. Now I live in some anticipatory land of anxiety.

Oh well, when I think like this I know its very negative and I try to bring myself back to reality by reminding myself that I was the one who put myself in this situation with years upon years of a second life of porn.

Perhaps this is the wrong way to look at it, but I do in some ways feel this is my penance for my past.

Thanks so much for weighing in on my journal. You inspire too.
 
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GrateClips

Active Member
Feeling a little better. Reading some other journal entries and knowing that others struggle yet we are here to help each other is a way to calm the anger, stress, despair, negative emotion. Providing the service to one another as addicts was mentioned in the SA meeting i attend (well kind of been slacking). I can really see why now.

Goal today: just get through today.
 

GBS

Respected Member
@GrateClips - in all honesty my story is possibly closest to yours than many others and so I read your words with heightened concentration. I also get times (in the last month of my near 3 month complete abstinence) where I am not bursting, no blue balls at all despite libido normal, and I wonder if it’s just the brain again or something uncontrollable and scary.

Whist I envy you for the advance you;ve had for sex (and it came from your wife, so it’s double points!), I do empathise for your wait. Must drive you to distraction.

You remain one of my key inspirations. Glad you’re back on. No pressure if you step away again by the way.
 

GrateClips

Active Member
@GrateClips - in all honesty my story is possibly closest to yours than many others and so I read your words with heightened concentration. I also get times (in the last month of my near 3 month complete abstinence) where I am not bursting, no blue balls at all despite libido normal, and I wonder if it’s just the brain again or something uncontrollable and scary.

Whist I envy you for the advance you;ve had for sex (and it came from your wife, so it’s double points!), I do empathise for your wait. Must drive you to distraction.

You remain one of my key inspirations. Glad you’re back on. No pressure if you step away again by the way.
Sent you a private message @GBS
 

GrateClips

Active Member
Day 160 (give or take)

A tough day. I think my wife finally started doing some deep diving into her own recovery and it hit her pretty hard. It feels like a step back day today but we will continue on our recovery.

she was honest in saying that she wasn't ready for sex last week, and she's not ready for sex for the foreseeable future. and truth be told i don't think i'm in the right headspace either. i mean i really want to on a certain level but if she's not ready then i'm not going to be ready either.

on the plus side i'm really becoming aware of my inner selfishness and lack of empathy when it comes to our relationship. i grew up in a basically dysfunctional household with parents in a loveless marriage. my template of how a man/wife interact growing up was grossly distorted. i still learn constantly about what makes a good relationship.

things looked down today but i am sober today, sober all these days, and i will regroup tomorrow. this is more me telling myself than truly believing it, but while i miss sex, sex does not define me.
 

Jlied

Active Member
Thanks for posting this. I feel a lot of your comments hit home for me. I grew up in a home where my parents stayed together but the first 12-13 years of my life my father was an alcoholic, my parents rarely exhibited a marriage of affection or love. My dad always slept in the couch, he’d say it’s cause he wanted to sleep with a fan but my mom was always too cold. As an adult I now see this as my mom not wanting to share a bed with him when he drank. Even when he got sober they rarely modeled a loving relationship. And even when he was sober did he get involved much with the family. He pretty much came home from work and zoned out in tv. I didnt have a close relationship with my dad and when he did pay attention to me I loved it but it wasn’t that often. It took me a long time to realize how to be a good husband and father. I thought that just by being home I was sufficient enough. But admittedly i always preferred to do things in my own. To this day I still feel more comfortable by myself than in a group setting. Sometime I feel I’m more authentically myself when I’m not at home and that sucks. But I have made strides. I enjoy my family. I miss them when I travel for work. I still need my own time, but I’m much more present. marriage is an ever evolving dynamic, constant growth is required to make sure that we stay connected. I’ve always worried what we’ll be like when our kids eventually leave the house. I know my wife and I have plans for the future when the kids leave but I also worry that maybe when they are gone we will have forgotten how to live together. Like are the kids the binding agent that keeps us together? I personally feel that the reason she chose to stay after she found out about my double life is because we had young kids. Part of it was she didn’t want to lion like a failure to everyone else. So I do worry that she’s suppressed too much to keep the family intact that once they are fine things may bubble back up. I hope the growth we’ve made together shows her that we are made for each other and that doesn’t happen.

i remember her telling me that there were times she would have sex with me even though she was repulsed by my habits (back when I was actively looking at porn). She’d have sex with em when she wasn’t even interested in it just to keep me from looking at it. When she told me that I was gutted. I never wanted her to feel like she had to do that, I never wanted to make her feel like….for lack of a better word whore herself out to me just to feel seen and make me see her. So many times she did that and I didn’t even know that’s how she felt. I’ll never be able to comprehend how women are able to have such a capacity for live to those who aren’t deserving. To this day it makes me emotional.

I hate what I did. I hate that she felt the need to compete, to go against her will, to suppress her feelings. Nothing has made me feel lower and dirtier than when she told me that. I don’t care what anyone says, women are stronger than men, roles reversed I’m not sure anyone of us would be willing or capable to put up with what our wives have put up with for us. If I do nothing else I want her to know she’s lived and appreciated. I hope that I will never again make her feel so low.

thank you for your post today. You’ve stirred emotions in me that I needed to express.
 

GBS

Respected Member
@GrateClips - at the heart of your progress is honesty and communication. Those have to be the best 2 bedrocks. As depressing (mildly or otherwise) as the hold up in sex progress is, I was heartened by what you wrote. It would be worse to have resentful sex. Also your own recognition of the need for more empathy is insightful.

I think I have, as immodest as this sounds, been top class at empathy and whilst it hasn’t generated sex yet, not that that’s the gecall and end all, it has helped massively. Good luck my friend.
 

GrateClips

Active Member
It took me a long time to realize how to be a good husband and father. I thought that just by being home I was sufficient enough. But admittedly i always preferred to do things in my own. To this day I still feel more comfortable by myself than in a group setting. Sometime I feel I’m more authentically myself when I’m not at home and that sucks. But I have made strides. I enjoy my family. I miss them when I travel for work. I still need my own time, but I’m much more present. marriage is an ever evolving dynamic, constant growth is required to make sure that we stay connected. I’ve always worried what we’ll be like when our kids eventually leave the house. I know my wife and I have plans for the future when the kids leave but I also worry that maybe when they are gone we will have forgotten how to live together. Like are the kids the binding agent that keeps us together? I personally feel that the reason she chose to stay after she found out about my double life is because we had young kids. Part of it was she didn’t want to lion like a failure to everyone else. So I do worry that she’s suppressed too much to keep the family intact that once they are fine things may bubble back up. I hope the growth we’ve made together shows her that we are made for each other and that doesn’t happen.

i remember her telling me that there were times she would have sex with me even though she was repulsed by my habits (back when I was actively looking at porn). She’d have sex with em when she wasn’t even interested in it just to keep me from looking at it. When she told me that I was gutted. I never wanted her to feel like she had to do that, I never wanted to make her feel like….for lack of a better word whore herself out to me just to feel seen and make me see her. So many times she did that and I didn’t even know that’s how she felt. I’ll never be able to comprehend how women are able to have such a capacity for live to those who aren’t deserving. To this day it makes me emotional.

I'm glad you felt a stirring. my entry yesterday was very short but also necessary from me, for me, but i'm really glad it provided a service to you.

My counselor says that for me, growing up lonely in my household with my dysfunctionally emotional parents, I learned how to self soothe, keep my mind busy, and not be bothered by boredom. Heck boredom wasn't bad - it sure beat a lot of the alternatives when it came to interacting w/ my parents.

Porn and masturbation is an extension of self soothing. In porn I felt "connected" to a woman and I got a release through MO. Because I grew up emotionally lonely, I could easily insert myself into the role of the man in the porn act and be that guy. I know a lot of porn users trend in more niche type areas but all I ever really liked watching were things where it seemed the man and woman were really into each other. Basically I just wanted to feel a part of something.

Its ironic then that upon actually being in a real marriage and now with kids, I, up until recently when I became sober, never actually entered the reality of my relationship. As you put it, relationships are dynamic. My wife and I both changed, but I wanted her to stay in our dating phase, when we couldn't keep our hands off each other.

Like you, my wife has in the past had sex because she felt pressure to do so.. and even worse, she did it because she felt it would save our marriage. I agree it hurts to hear that but it was necessary to hear it.

I think the only way I can have sex again, is in a healthy way, where its because we both want to.
 
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GrateClips

Active Member
Month 6

6 months sober. I stopped using days. I am using months now to highlight my journey, not days I decided.

Yes, I'm ok. I have as of late noticed I continue to get more and more busy in life. This is both a good and a bad thing. Good because well I go through my day and know that I was busy. Bad because it has also crept being hectic. Which leads to stress. Which, for the first time since I began 6 months of sobriety, a nagging distant hunger has nibbled around the edges... porn/masturbation/sexual release (other than with my spouse).

In fact this past week or so, I've engaged in some middle circle behavior (if you don't know what i mean, look up Outer/Middle/Inner circles as it pertains to addiction recovery). One, I briefly met a woman at the workplace noticed she was attractive, and looked her pictures up on the internet .. just photos of her and her husband (no porn/suggestive photos). Two, I thought of an act II used to like to watch in porn, and decided to read about it.

Thankfully, I did not relapse and remain sober. It was also a reminder of how dangerously slippery the slope is, even at this far out in my sobriety. I can and have gone day after day w/out PMO yet all it would take is one moment of weakness to slip back into the shadows.

The silver lining in all this is I think I am beginning to emerge some from my flatline. I had another wet dream a couple weeks back (3rd one since sobriety), and this time it was a fantasy of being with my wife. Without being descriptive so as to serve as a trigger for anyone reading this I'll just say it felt like I was living the dream. Two things I noticed. One, while it felt good, the release itself while felt good doesn't last long and doesn't fundamentally change the way I feel day to day. In fact if anything it starkly highlighted how I kept chasing that high over and over in the past. That fleeting short moment of feeling good followed by a short period of feeling calm. I think I know why so many undergoing sobriety just feel so darn anxious... its that they/we have not learned how to manage our own emotional selves except by our addiction. Without that addiction the structure we have built emotionally is revealed to be unstable.

Two, flatline is partially or a lot in my head. Everything works. Not like my 20 year old self but it still works. I'm just not wired correctly (yet). I remain non-sexual with my spouse but since last month I think I can see myself working towards recovery and repair of my relationship without solely seeing the goal of having sex again.
 

GrateClips

Active Member
Hi @GrateClips

Nice to have you back. That’s spectacular news about sex being back on the table for you. I realise there are concerns but it’s massive progress. If I read you right, you are hard mode….so no ejaculation in 5 months. How did you/are you coping with that? I am approaching 90 days hard mode and have been through a lot of varieties of hell. Libido issues? Erections?
I repeat, nice to have you back. You inspire.

i think you misread a bit. sex is not back on the table as of right now i think i'm just coping better with being more patient about living life until it comes around. but i do think its slowly getting there. we'll get there i hope. i haven't asked my wife about sex in over a month; i don't think the time is quite right.

yes i am in hard mode. i've had 3 wet dreams in that time. and then the one time we tried to have sex (i journaled this a little while back) which was kind of disastrous although i did end up releasing after. so yeah i'm hard mode but my body has found its own release a few times. that's definitely helped i think. but i also think a large part of this is mental.

one thing that has helped me, and my help others, is to stop thinking about the last time sexual release has happened in terms of days. that puts an unhealthy timer on things. in contrast, counting up the days on a good streak like sobriety is something that can be built upon. but counting the days since one last had sexual release can, in my opinion, lead to feelings of anxiety. just my thought at least.

back when i used to PMO if i went say a week without PMO i would feel almost a sense of bursting inside, wanting to get my release. i don't have that so much since i started sobriety for the most part. i have started to get some increased sense of libido but i do think that's a good thing. flatline, while good for not wanting to look at porn, is for the most part, a depressing feeling as a man.

i'm glad @GBS you read and get at least a little inspiration. i get inspiration from almost every passage i read from all the members here for the most part.

sorry if this was a rambling reply/post. typical late night musings
 

GBS

Respected Member
Nice to have you back @GrateClips - You sound sanguine and as if you totally understand where you’re at. Where you really are at May still be confusing and imperfect but you’re seemingly really aware. I think that’s excellent.

I think when I commented that sex was back on the table it was because you said at one point that you were going to have sex “soon”. It’s been qualified I understand but I just selfishly compare it to my situation where the word “soon” has been seldom mentioned.

I identify totally with your comments about how not PMO’ing in the old days would lead to a bursting feeling. Now you don’t have that. Isn’t it lovely not to have the brain telling you to go back?

Keep doing the right things pal. You don;t need to write every day, I’m just an obsessive which is why I was on your case. 🤷
 

GrateClips

Active Member
I identify totally with your comments about how not PMO’ing in the old days would lead to a bursting feeling. Now you don’t have that. Isn’t it lovely not to have the brain telling you to go back?

yes for the most part. but there have been times, more so the last few weeks where the old addiction wants to elbow in and get me to break down. having read other journals and heard other stories of people doing the same thing its often when we feel confident that "we got this" that thats when things break down. fortunately since i have heard of being careful of "we got this" i am trying to be extra careful these past week or so.

if you have not watched a recent interview of Matthew Perry on his struggles w/ addiction done by Diane Sawyer I would recommend it. His struggles in many ways resonate with me. While successful in many areas of his life, supremely successful you could say, he struggled off set. Presently he is sober for quite some time but also knows that he must always put forth effort to not slip into his old habits.
 

GrateClips

Active Member
A couple weeks till 7 months
Still sober and grateful to be sober.
Although I say that sentence with the feeling that I'm wound very tight right now. Lots of life stress, work stress, kids, everything. I know for a fact the non-sober me would have gladly acted out. But I'm sober and trying to stay sober and I haven't mastered replacing my old habits with healthier ones.
I can say for the first time since I started my sobriety and this journal that I really felt the call back to PMO. I can also say I'm trying to rationalize the old way of mixing PMO with real sex, and tapering PMO before times I'd have sex. "It wasn't so bad right?" is what the addiction is trying to feed to me. But I know it was not good for me and therefore I'm here, typing away, which I can say is making me feel better some.

I also feel like I cannot or do not want to talk to my wife about my struggles right now with staying sober because I feel like she will perceive this as me just trying to push for sex again soon.

Of course acting like a stressed out, irritable guy all weekend so far probably hasn't won me any points in the attraction department so I guess one can say I didn't do myself any favors these last couple days.

One thought I have repeatedly clung to today is something I read on another guy (no idea exactly who) journal here at RN, where he says the days that one feels it is hardest to fight the addiction and urges but you did successfully and didn't relapse are some of the most important in the journey and building towards something better.

I have no idea if that is true but if it helps me get through I'll take it.
 

GBS

Respected Member
Hi @GrateClips - nice to hear from you.

It wasn’t me that said that thing about getting through the strong urges days are your biggest victories, but it sounds bang on. I have always tried to come on here and read lots every time I get even the slightest twinge of an urge. Generally though, having a “go to” method for dealing with them is essential.

By the way I have tried to rationalise my previous mixing of PMO and home sex, and I can’t. In a way it’s very helpful that I can’t. When you know what’s right, going back to old habits would be plain stupidity and weakness and have no grounding in logic other than selfish need for the drug.
 

GrateClips

Active Member
Hi @GrateClips - nice to hear from you.

It wasn’t me that said that thing about getting through the strong urges days are your biggest victories, but it sounds bang on. I have always tried to come on here and read lots every time I get even the slightest twinge of an urge. Generally though, having a “go to” method for dealing with them is essential.

By the way I have tried to rationalise my previous mixing of PMO and home sex, and I can’t. In a way it’s very helpful that I can’t. When you know what’s right, going back to old habits would be plain stupidity and weakness and have no grounding in logic other than selfish need for the drug.

urges again today, maybe not as bad. the wife commented that i've been miserable all weekend and stressed out. yes there is a lot going on, she thnks its everything and anything but my addiction. in a way it irks me that she wouldn't ask me (ever) how i'm doing with my struggle. its like her way of dealing with it is to move on and bury it in a way. i think if i could talk to her about my struggles in this area it *might* help. but its often led to sadness and arguments too. i can't blame her, talking would be a reminder of the pain she goes through since i disclosed my problems a few months back.

so i try and persevere. in a bit here i'll go exercise some. and stay busy with finishing up some stuff i have for work that i know will destress me as i finish it out.
 

GBS

Respected Member
@GrateClips - I feel your pain, my friend. In my first three months of recovery I was discovering so much about myself and was telling my wife. I thought me saying I am a new man would help. I gave a fair amount of detail as to my new abstinent habits and how it focussed me more in her. She seemed very pleased and interested. She even said back in May (when I first came on here) that I was being very patient. Then it all turned. She said I was being needy and she needed to focus on what she di to recover and stop being my crutch.

That was July. Since then she has shown zero interest in my abstinent programme and is basically unaware of where I am. I am sure partly this is so she can focus on herself but - and this is where we may be close to identical - I think following up on my progress gives her a guilt complex. It shouldn’t because I/we were the wrong doers, but I think it’s natural to wonder if they’re suddenly part of the problem. That may sound heinous to partners reading this, but the ability to recover as a partner (and the accompanying forgiveness) requires strength. If you don’t possess as much strength then having that exposed when you’re the victim is not fair.

I could be wrong but I think I’m not far out. Do correct me of course.
 

GrateClips

Active Member
@GrateClips - I feel your pain, my friend. In my first three months of recovery I was discovering so much about myself and was telling my wife. I thought me saying I am a new man would help. I gave a fair amount of detail as to my new abstinent habits and how it focussed me more in her. She seemed very pleased and interested. She even said back in May (when I first came on here) that I was being very patient. Then it all turned. She said I was being needy and she needed to focus on what she di to recover and stop being my crutch.

That was July. Since then she has shown zero interest in my abstinent programme and is basically unaware of where I am. I am sure partly this is so she can focus on herself but - and this is where we may be close to identical - I think following up on my progress gives her a guilt complex. It shouldn’t because I/we were the wrong doers, but I think it’s natural to wonder if they’re suddenly part of the problem. That may sound heinous to partners reading this, but the ability to recover as a partner (and the accompanying forgiveness) requires strength. If you don’t possess as much strength then having that exposed when you’re the victim is not fair.

I could be wrong but I think I’m not far out. Do correct me of course.
i think you are spot on. being needy is a huge turn off for women and its often what wrecks a man with women, whether its in a marriage or on the dating scene after the first few dates. i know this because i remember a girl i liked very much before my wife and dated very briefly.. then turned needy and drove her away. fun fact: after i was crushed by her, i started dating my future-wife... well this first girl all of a sudden gave a lot of interest back after i stopped bothering with trying to pursue her.

back to the discussion - i always have to remind myself .. my recovery is not about wanting to have sex again with my wife successfully. its about developing the relationship we should have always had from the beginning. i think a woman can kind of see through a man when they think a man is just motivated to do things for sex only.

women in general are good at seeing through men i believe. except for one thing... a man's sexual escapades outside of a relationship. i think this is why they feel so blindsided is because they are so good at reading us in everything but to find out the one thing a man kept secret is the one thing they dreaded the most... that's crushing.

having said that, it speaks to the volume of healing that has to take place.
 

Jlied

Active Member
I also feel like I cannot or do not want to talk to my wife about my struggles right now with staying sober because I feel like she will perceive this as me just trying to push for sex again soon.
This is quite a fine line to navigate. I often struggle between being totally honest and telling her what I know is important. After D-day I would tell her about the things I was learning, interesting podcasts or books I was reading with regards to overcoming porn addiction. I wanted her to know I was putting an honest effort in. If she asked how I’ve been doing lately I would say I’ve had some struggles but I’m doing well. I was hesitant to say I’ve had urges or desires to look at P because I didn’t want her to feel like I’m failing, in my mind those weren’t failures because I knew how I was and where I was presently at, but for her she may not read it that way because she can’t see into my mind to know the differences between those 2 people. I do think it’s important to keep you’re spouse in the loop so they don’t think you’ve gone complacent or even worse given up. Sure, they should be able to sense a difference in your energy and overall emotional state but I just wanted my wife to know I haven’t stopped trying.

@GBS when you said your wife said you are being needy, I just don’t see it, I, like you suspect that you progressing with you inner issues could in fact be making her feel some sort of guilt if she has not addressed the feelings that she is dealing with. Or, perhaps, she just doesn’t even want the whole thing brought up because it takes her back to the most unpleasant memories of you two, perhaps it’s with a conversation with her to better understand why she thinks that way if you haven’t already done so.
in a way it irks me that she wouldn't ask me (ever) how i'm doing with my struggle. its like her way of dealing with it is to move on and bury it in a way. i think if i could talk to her about my struggles in this area it *might* help.
I think this in itself is worth any potential negative conversation that might arise. From my experience getting these negative conversations taken care of brings my wife and I closer together after they have been had. Much like you need to listen to her when she needs to talk to you about her feelings or where she’s at she should be willing to listen to you about what you are dealing with. Keeping each other informed is really important when working through these situations. Yes, we’re the wrong doers, but it doesn’t mean we don’t have a leg to stand on when it comes to fixing ourselves. If talking to the one you live about what is troubling you, knowing you haven’t relapsed should go a long way in building trust with her.

keep up the good fight!
 
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