Moving forward!

TypeN

Active Member
Well, here I am, awake and keeping the commitment. Boy was I tired when my alarm went off this morning! And there's still some tiredness sitting in my body and mind right now. But it’s a fatigue I’m choosing for my own good, this time.

Im expecting to experience some urges today because of the fatigue. I promise myself that if I’m thinking of acting on them in any way, that in that moment I’ll come here and post first.

Going to go shower, and then I’ll go the gym — probably for nothing more intense than a walk on the treadmill. I lifted heavy yesterday evening so I don’t think my body is up for any more than that.

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TypeN

Active Member
Well, I surprised myself. I ran a total of ~6.5 miles on the treadmill this morning. Nothing crazy, roughly 9 minute miles; but way more than I expected of myself on a few hours of sleep, and having not run since my half marathon last may! Feeling proud.

I think this is a little like what @Winnerwhoabstains described; I ignored some urges and slept poorly, but my body got in a groove because I was doing a healthy thing.

Anyway, now I'm beat. Hopefully this means I'll sleep well tonight.
 

Trisquel

Active Member
Well, I surprised myself. I ran a total of ~6.5 miles on the treadmill this morning. Nothing crazy, roughly 9 minute miles; but way more than I expected of myself on a few hours of sleep, and having not run since my half marathon last may! Feeling proud.

I think this is a little like what @Winnerwhoabstains described; I ignored some urges and slept poorly, but my body got in a groove because I was doing a healthy thing.

Anyway, now I'm beat. Hopefully this means I'll sleep well tonight

That sounds great, congrats on commiting to your plan!
 

TypeN

Active Member
Thanks guys! I'm feeling optimistic, like I've got a good momentum now. I'm still struggling with a tendency to ruminate sexually, but it feels relatively manageable at the moment (in the sense that I seem to be able to keep it from happening too much, and to not MO when it happens).

My body is definitely feeling the strain of my increased workout frequency. I hit the gym 4 times last week, and it will take me some time to adjust to that as a regular routine. My strength is getting close to where it was before I burned out this summer, but my conditioning is not there yet.

Beyond all that I just heard back from a recruiter for a company I applied to recently. I didn't expect to hear back at all, frankly, but now I've got a phone interview scheduled for next week. A good omen for my recent efforts to get my life together, perhaps.

Good job on the running! Also decided to get back to it, slowly, because I have a leftover from a foot injury. We can do this!!

Yes we can! Looks like I'm in a very similar spot to you, actually. My little episode of enthusiasm on the treadmill seems to have revived some inflammation in my knee that I struggled with when training for last year's half marathon. So I too need to take it slow.

Good for you man! Looks like you not only doing a good running, but good running your life too:cool:

Hehe. :D

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Winnerwhoabstains

Active Member
Awesome stuff man! To me it sounds like absolutely progress like ruminating is there BUT it is a massive improvement and all a long the curve.

Very cool about the interview - I think that is how it goes, working harder and getting "luckier" as a result.

Keep up the awesome momentum!
 

TypeN

Active Member
Well, since the other day I’ve been struggling. I viewed some substitutes later that day, and then again yesterday, and while I ended up actually getting off to fantasies instead, the pattern in these cases has been that: I get myself all riled up with them or with fantasies. Then I’ll pass hours thinking about that, and thinking other sexual thoughts, including while doing other things — until I ultimately MO. There have been days where sexual rumination happens without feeding in to that cycle of MO relapse, but it’s like I described last time — it feels like a toss-up.

This isn’t real sobriety, and I know it. Honestly, in some ways these days strike me as worse than days on which I just MO’d to fantasies, because now the deferral of MO ends up triggering me to think about fantasies (and consider relapsing) for hours. I go uncomfortable directions with fantasies quickly, and of course, there’s the added stimulus of having not O’d for a few days. Whereas before I might MO a few times a day, it happened fairly quickly and dispersed my sexual thoughts. Now rumination makes me more likely to consider viewing substitutes and flirt with the idea of actually relapsing to porn.

Like I’ve said before though, I’m not taking this as evidence that I should stop trying to go no-MO. I know that both my current pattern and the pattern where I’d just MO to fantasies keep porn pathways wired into my brain, and neither will help me heal. It’s just, fuck, this is hard.

I welcome any kind of advice about where to go from here. Where I’m going in my head is to be more strict about putting sexual thoughts out of my mind, to the degree that I can, because there is a degree of the sexual rumination stuff that is voluntary (I know as addicts, that little of our addictive thinking is meaningfully "voluntary", but there are certainly some kinds I could curtail). I figure that maybe then the involuntary thoughts won’t have enough power over me to compel my behavior. Similarly I want to stop touching myself in any way -- I've realized lately that there are kinds of self-touch that aren't masturbatory, but that are sexual, and that I seem to do them compulsively, frequently and almost unconsciously.

I also need to actually establish things like mindfulness and journalling as a routine, like I've told myself probably half a dozen times now. I did that little stint last week, but I didn’t continue the meditation part, and there’s lots of other small habits that I ought to start practicing routinely. To wit, I will commit to posting here each morning for the next 3 days again.

On the bright side all this frustration is prompting me to get more and more serious about fitness goals, and I have been working out consistently and hard. But this wall of text has gotten long enough. More on that tomorrow.

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Winnerwhoabstains

Active Member
The earlier you catch things the easier.


So - like when you catch the fantasy distracting oneself helps.

BUT - I find it helpful having also very strict lines. Like I know when the fantasy is like porn fantasy versus more innocuous, the innocuous can become dangerous but it can be helpful say to note specific acts and things that when fantasized about are particularly triggering, so if those things pop into your head you can immiedatly distract yourself, I actually practice juggling.

So catch ALL of the more dangerous thoughs, as each time you catch and redirect them it makes it a bit easier to abstain
 

TypeN

Active Member
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Doing better today! I've calmed down a bit from how I was feeling this week. The way I'm looking at my struggles lately, is that they teach me lessons. It's been a cycle for me during the reboot, that I commit to making one step in the right direction, while setting aside certain habits as not necessary to change. And then something (a relapse, or something close to it) comes along that shows me no, really, you need to change those other things too.

First, a long long while ago, it was admitting I needed to intervene somehow: to cut down on, but maybe not cut out porn entirely (using blockers, ultimately). Then I decided I needed to cut porn out entirely, but I wouldn't give up MO -- I "needed it." Recently I decided I would cut out MO, but I didn't think about trying to stop feeling sexual in general. And now, with any luck, I'm trying to do just that: engage with my sexuality as little as possible to make this no-MO reboot really happen. At least that's the theory; I'll see where things actually go.

Anyhow, it's helping me to get excited about a big goal, to do something else with all the energy I'll be saving during that reboot. I have two fairly ambitious goals for the next few months. Firstly, there's a marathon being held in early May in my city, and I want to run it -- it'll be my first. Secondly, I want to get stronger than I ever have been. In particular, I want to take my current 240x4 deadlift to 315x1 lbs (I don't weigh much, so that would be a big DL max, and more importantly a big milestone: 3 plates!). I'm not sure if these goals are realistic for that time-frame -- but I don't want to decide that without trying! I plan to get up early 5-6 days a week to work out; 1-2 to run, and 4 to lift. This afternoon I'm hitting the gym to go for a long run, after having lifted yesterday and Friday.

The earlier you catch things the easier.


So - like when you catch the fantasy distracting oneself helps.

BUT - I find it helpful having also very strict lines. Like I know when the fantasy is like porn fantasy versus more innocuous, the innocuous can become dangerous but it can be helpful say to note specific acts and things that when fantasized about are particularly triggering, so if those things pop into your head you can immiedatly distract yourself, I actually practice juggling.

So catch ALL of the more dangerous thoughs, as each time you catch and redirect them it makes it a bit easier to abstain

Thanks man -- this is good advice. I've been trying to catch every thought this past day, and dispell it the moment it happens. And knock on wood, but so far it seems to be working. I've put in my head the idea that I just don't want to think sexually at all during my reboot, if possible – including "innocuous" ones, as you say – which is a new way of looking at it for me. Some things slip through before I notice them, but once I notice them I stop them. Working so far -- I feel much more neutral.

Juggling though -- now that's a concept. :D I've always been terrible at it myself, but that's cool dude.
 

TypeN

Active Member
Well, just ran 6 miles again! In these three intervals, breaks of 1-2 min between:

Mile 1, 8:30.
Mile 2, 9:00.
Miles 3-6, 10:00.

At the start of mile 3 I felt wiped already, so I took the pace down to 6 mph and figured that would be my last mile. But at the slower pace I hit a nice groove, and thought "well, maybe I could do 1.5" ... and then 3 ... and then 4! I have to say this flow state one can feel in the middle of a run is really interesting. Like the body is moving as one single, fluid machine.

It's a good feeling to approach exercise with low expectations and then surpass them, by going easy on myself. I would have been happy to leave with just the 3 under my belt but I worked with my body and it worked with me in return.
 

iwander

Active Member
Well, just ran 6 miles again! In these three intervals, breaks of 1-2 min between:

Mile 1, 8:30.
Mile 2, 9:00.
Miles 3-6, 10:00.

At the start of mile 3 I felt wiped already, so I took the pace down to 6 mph and figured that would be my last mile. But at the slower pace I hit a nice groove, and thought "well, maybe I could do 1.5" ... and then 3 ... and then 4! I have to say this flow state one can feel in the middle of a run is really interesting. Like the body is moving as one single, fluid machine.

It's a good feeling to approach exercise with low expectations and then surpass them, by going easy on myself. I would have been happy to leave with just the 3 under my belt but I worked with my body and it worked with me in return.
Man, I am happy you are doing well. It's really good you found something hard and healthy to enjoy. Keep it up, man!
 

the_mountain_goat

Active Member
Hey TypeN!

Sorry for being not so present in the last few days. You've struggled a little, but in your struggle, you've found some answers!
You're making your way through deciding what to do with MO, and with your sexuality during reboot. Not an easy task. Good that you're keeping track of what worked, what didn't. Perhaps have a look again at your journal from the last month, with an eye for these things. Stepping back a little, see if anything comes to your mind from re-reading your own self? Just a thought.

And great about sports! Take it easy too, though. Be kind to your body. I'm saying this because I know I'm like that: setting myself nice objectives, but sometimes going a little too strong and hurting myself, especially in a period of reboot where I have a lot of energy to channel!

Stay strong, always!
 

TypeN

Active Member
Thanks guys! Your kind words and encouragement are much appreciated.

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I seem to be stuck in this cycle: go a few days MO-free, start to have intrusive thoughts and, despite my commitment to not look at anything stimulating, look at some kind of substitute for awhile. Then in an aroused state afterwards, get off. Today was one of those days, unfortunately. I'm trying not to feel shame about this and just keep brainstorming a more effective approach. Thinking to try a version of what @Winnerwhoabstains described earlier in the thread: scheduled MO, in my case with these rules:
  • To start, scheduled every other day. Today I MO’d, so tomorrow I couldn't, but Wednesday I can, etc.
  • On a scheduled day, once and no more.
  • Absolutely no fantasizing involved. Not to get hard, not to finish quicker — not at all.
  • No viewing of substitutes at any point, period.
  • If I don’t end up MO’ing on an MO day, I can't then do 2 days in a row to “make up for it.”
  • Any MO session has to be after noon, so that it doesn’t interfere in my morning workout schedule.
  • And if I break any of these rules, I make a commitment to come here and post right afterwards.
The idea would be that this gives me some regularly scheduled form of release, and on non-MO days, I take the opportunity to practice the mental discipline I've been envisioning in my posts here this week. I have not decided to give up on no-MO, but I figure for this week I might as well try something different and see if it helps me break this cycle. Then re-evaluate from there.

I welcome your input guys; if this seems unreasonable or ill-advised in some way let me know. I know I've been all over the place with my posts this week. I'm just trying to make this work somehow!

Good that you're keeping track of what worked, what didn't. Perhaps have a look again at your journal from the last month, with an eye for these things. Stepping back a little, see if anything comes to your mind from re-reading your own self? Just a thought.

Great idea man -- I'll make re-reading and reflecting here my journal activity for tomorrow.
 

TypeN

Active Member
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Well, I went ahead with trying this. I didn’t have much trouble abstaining yesterday, and I think my desire to look at substitutes and to ruminate sexually is lower, although not absent yet. The actual MO session today seems to have mostly dispelled my sexual thinking. By and large no fantasizing seems to mean by and large no withdrawals afterwards. I just feel neutral.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see how this goes this coming week.

Phone interview today went fine I think, I believe I may get a follow-up round. But coming home from work I was in a bad mood. It was probably some of the anxiety and tension of preparing for that, plus a busy day at work, and troubled sleep last night. I find it hard not to ruminate negatively in moments like these -- about anything and everything.

I’m too tired to do anything other than make this post tonight, but I’ll circle back tomorrow with that journal reflection.
 

Winnerwhoabstains

Active Member
Sounds like some great ideas and yes having the schedule seems a good plan.

AWESOME about the running, deadlifting and those goals etc. that is just great stuff. Doesn't get much better than that!

I feel you on anxiousness, it seems like MOST addictions the number 1 reason is forgetting worries in one form or another.

So other ways of doing that can be good, ways to relax that are pure relaxation. In addition to healthy disciplined habits.

Stuff like a hot bath with a book, reading fiction, a saunca, binarual beats. Can be good healthy substitues for that mental break
 

TypeN

Active Member
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I relapsed again.

Honestly, I don’t think this approach has been bad, these past few days. But I broke one of my own rules today; allowing myself to fantasize to get hard. I was not horny at all coming home from work. I was just feeling really down, which I have been all week. Physically I was in entirely no mood to jerk off. But I had decided that I was going to MO because “today was a day for MO,” and so I forced myself to get a (weak) erection by fantasizing. Fantasizing led to substitutes, and then O. And then the withdrawal from that lead to another MO session, to images of naked women. That’s as far as it went, at least. No video pornography.

I think I really need to drill down on improving my mental well-being. I’m frequently pretty sad and lonely these days. I do socialize here and there – certainly more than before I started getting clean – but not enough to meet my needs, and a variety of other stressors weigh on me each and every day. My life is unequivocally improving without porn/fantasies/etc., and I’m working hard, but the spectre of what made me into a porn addict in the first place — very negative feelings that are hard to bear — is still hanging over me. I think I’ve developed a lot of good strategies for sobriety this past month, but they will constantly be strained in periods of unhappiness like this, I feel. To succeed I need to take steps to make my emotional lows less deep.

I’ll get up tomorrow morning to resume a daily routine of breakfast => meditation => reflect here => work out. But these next few days I need to focus on thinking about my own happiness and what can bring me joy, not just discipline. Perhaps I can keep the disciplined morning schedule but replace the workouts here and there with things that could improve my mood (exercise is great — but it’s stressful, too). If scheduling happy activities is what it takes, that's what I'll do. I have to take care of myself emotionally.

That’s all for now. I’ll be back tomorrow morning to start a no-MO day.
 

Simon2

Well-Known Member
Hey, man.

I hope you find a way to some more positive thinking! Breaking those mental cycles is a key I think. When I look at your very helpful coloured boxes it looks like a bit of a pattern to be very mindful of... less and less green and more borderline. Don't let the red take over! Have a green weekend! :)

Strength! We can do this!
 

iwander

Active Member
Hey, sorry to hear about your state. I think you are right sometimes you just need to rest and do something for yourself. Training can be exhausting on a mental level too. No shame in being weak sometimes. I suggest you to reflect on your condition and why it brought to the point were you are, maybe learn from it.
 

Trisquel

Active Member
Hi man, sorry to hear about your relapse.

I think you have a good way of loocking at it, though.
It is essential to work on our wellbeign and what makes us happy, not only beeing disciplined with P and substitudes withdrawal (positive recovery, not only negative recovery!). Makinf reinforcing things that make life worth it.
I´m sure you will find your thing and you will improve. Think about things you can do and try commiting to them. Friends, hobbies, travelling? what can you do to improve your social life?

I also wanted to ask you if maybe is better to let go MO at all, at least for a few weeks?
I´m sure you have discussed this before, I just didn´t read the posts.

Best of lucks, have a nice weekend
 
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