It's time to change

logicprox

Well-Known Member
Man I can really relate to this. I think our story is similar in that when it comes to being religious in our 20s, and then when we moved on from it, it was hard to adjust to new possibilities and lifestyle. I remember times coming home to my apartment crying because I couldn't "figure it out" how to talk to girls in a bar and get laid. Pretty pathetic huh? It's so sad looking back on it now lol. But there was a few things I did learn through trial and error that might help you.

Firstly, you're absolutely right, you can't go out to the bars with only the main goal of "getting laid", because you give off a weird vibe to women and they can feel that desperate energy on you. Remember, women are "naturals" at picking up on someone's energy, and if it feels off, they run and never look back. And who could blame them? I sure as hell don't. The best thing to do, no matter how bad you want to get laid, is to just have the goal in mind of having fun no matter what happens. I found that this attitude presented many more opportunities than only having the goal of getting laid. Why? Because your vibe will be completely different to women. Sex comes from having fun and enjoying yourself with someone, and not the other way around.

Secondly, and just as importantly, I realized later on in my journey that I often conflated my religious 20s with my natural personality. What I mean by that is I mistakenly thought I wasn't a "party man" or "bar man" because I was a Christian, however, that really wasn't the whole story. I'm naturally introverted and kind of a bookish man, thus, the bar scene in general, no matter Christian or not, was never really in tune with my natural disposition. While it is true that I did go to a bar and have a good time, and I did have a few "successes", the bar scene in general, with it's extraverted everything, was never entirely conducive for me talking and meeting women. Thus, I often found myself trying to be someone that I'm not, and once again, women can pick up on that vibe instantly. However, I found out bookstores and other places like that to be much more beneficial for me meeting women.

No matter what though, remember in your hierarchy of values, that porn will not happen, no matter if you get laid or not.

Hopefully that helps you a little.

Best brother!
Thanks for all that, honestly a helpful perspective.

I'm definitely an introvert by nature too, and I don't think that will ever change. But I think my shyness/social anxiety is something i want to eliminate, as it's own separate characteristic from being an introvert. Ie. I will always feel most at home living in my own little world, but I feel like i need to be able to exist out in the world with people to get some of the things I want out of life.

All that said, bars and the like probably will never feel like home base. Real talk, how does one meet people at a bookstore haha? i am a big reader so it sounds conducive for me in theory, but having a hard time conceptualizing.

And 1000 thumbs up to this "No matter what though, remember in your hierarchy of values, that porn will not happen, no matter if you get laid or not."
 

logicprox

Well-Known Member
33 days. Yesterday was one of those days where I started trying to think too far ahead about my recovery/streak, which made me worry about slipping up, which my brain mistook for urges to use. But they weren't urges and regardless i don't use porn anymore.
 

Blondie

Respected Member
Thanks for all that, honestly a helpful perspective.

I'm definitely an introvert by nature too, and I don't think that will ever change. But I think my shyness/social anxiety is something i want to eliminate, as it's own separate characteristic from being an introvert. Ie. I will always feel most at home living in my own little world, but I feel like i need to be able to exist out in the world with people to get some of the things I want out of life.

All that said, bars and the like probably will never feel like home base. Real talk, how does one meet people at a bookstore haha? i am a big reader so it sounds conducive for me in theory, but having a hard time conceptualizing.

And 1000 thumbs up to this "No matter what though, remember in your hierarchy of values, that porn will not happen, no matter if you get laid or not."
Hey @logicprox, I like what you said about shyness/social anxiety, and how those are not necessarily intertwined with being an introvert. I too think those are two different things and often get annoyed when people diss introverts by saying they're all shy or awkward or what not, that's simply not true. I can be very social and outgoing, crack jokes and be funny (all skills I've learned) however, doing that all day long 24/7 will wear me the fuck out, and I will definitely need some time by myself to recalibrate etc. I've known plenty of extroverts who can also be socially awkward, but it's just in different ways than us introverts. All of us, both introverts and extroverts, have to learn how to properly calibrate to the universe. Anyway, I know what you mean, and yes, that's something that anyone can work on and improve, I sure know I have a lot more to work on in that area. Unfortunately, porn has definitely not helped us when it comes to our social anxiety etc., however, the further we stay away from it, the better it becomes. I know mine is getting better. Hell, now that I think about, does porn do anything good for us? :cool:

As far as your question goes, there's many things you could do I suppose. If you like to read books, great, maybe you could join a book club in your area for young adults etc., that would be a great way to meet women who love to read. And let's be honest, is there anything more sexy than smart bookish ladies? I think not :). What's more, you could go to your nearest bookstore and sit down and see what happens. Maybe a beauty will sit down besides you and you can use the greatest pickup line ever, "What's that you're reading?"🤣 And if you really want to stop giving a fuck (I know, easier said than done) you can just approach the one you like and say hello. Obviously, you have to do this respectfully and with tact, but it can work. Let's face it, before online dating (and porn lol) almost all men met their girl in one way or another similar to this. None of us would be here if our dads and grandpas didn't make their move on our sweet moms and grandmas, literally! Thus, if we really want to embrace life, it's time to take life in our own hands, and out of our palms. Unfortunately, unlike in porn videos, women just don't jump on your bone without talking and approaching them first. I know, it's strange but true!

Well, you might ask, Blondie, that's great on paper, but what the fuck would I say to a girl I don't even know? That's a good question, and here's my answer. How about the truth. How about being authentic to yourself and her? How about being in the moment and not in your head? How about no modern games. I read that idea once in a book, and it completely blew my mind! Could it really be that easy?? At that time I was playing games, trying to be the "cool guy", you know, the guy who stands in the corner like James Bond and all the girls love. And, as you now know, I'm an introvert, so I had that whole "strong silent type" nailed down to a T. Anyway, I was always thinking to myself, maybe just maybe if I look cool enough, a girl will approach me. Or as it usually happened (if I was lucky enough to talk to a girl), I would try to be "cool" so as to not mess up and show her my true self🤦‍♂️. Needless to say, none of that works and women (yes they do make us men better) see right through it all and walk away, or laugh about it with their friends and won't take you seriously - and why should they?

So what's a guy to do? Well, you could just walk up to her and tell her your truth. And what is your truth? Everything that you're thinking about in that moment. You're probably thinking about your fears, the excitement of the possibilities, and, your utter amazement at her feminine grace and beauty, thus, that's exactly what you tell her. "Hi, I'm Logicprox, I'm scared shitless at the moment, but I had to come over here and say hello to you. What is your name?" Then you sit back in all your masculine glory and see what happens. This "line" is great, because one, it's not a pickup line (I hate that shit), two, you're being authentic to yourself and to her (women love that), and three, she really can't "reject" you. Sure, she might not be interested, or she might have a boyfriend or whatever, however, she cannot reject your truth. Why? Because it's your truth! More importantly, you didn't ask for her number nor her time, or anything in fact from her, you just told her your truth and nothing more. What's more, as I mentioned previously, you do this with an attitude of fun and joy and NOT with an attitude of trying to get something from her, i.e. sex. Women can feel the difference, and it's a night and day difference.

Obviously this shit can be scary, but hey, we only live once. Us men are always afraid about what "might" happen, however, we should elevate our thoughts to what "could" happen instead. We make this stuff way too hard for ourselves. What if that cute girl across the coffee shop would actually like you if only you would ask her? What if you two had amazing conversations for hours on end and then had great sex afterwards? Thinking of these lofty thoughts just might push you through your fears and anxieties.

Possibilities are everywhere, if only we would get our eyes off the screen and into the real wonderful world of women.

I hope that helps.

P.S. In my day (when I was 30 and 31) I was definitely no player or master of women lol, trust me, many times I was awkward as fuck. And although I would never say how many women - I think guys who brag about that are vacuous and misogynistic - you can take my word for it that it's a very very low number. However, I did get out there and tried many things, plus cried a few times and got my heart broken too, not to mention my ego! I also learned by reading quite a few psychology and dating books (the dating ones are often pretty terrible to be honest) and more often than not, just by making "mistakes". Nevertheless, I was desperate to learn about women, so, little by little, I did get better and more social and that's fun to look back on to this day. Eventually I did meet my current girlfriend, and I can honestly say I played no stupid games and was authentic with her, or pretty damn close. :cool: I even told her straight up about my porn use, not right away, but a month or so into our relationship. Needless to say, I was definitely not the cool "Strong silent type" of man that I was when I had started out on my journey two years before that.

Authenticity really can work.

Best
 
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logicprox

Well-Known Member
Hey @logicprox, I like what you said about shyness/social anxiety, and how those are not necessarily intertwined with being an introvert. I too think those are two different things and often get annoyed when people diss introverts by saying they're all shy or awkward or what not, that's simply not true. I can be very social and outgoing, crack jokes and be funny (all skills I've learned) however, doing that all day long 24/7 will wear me the fuck out, and I will definitely need some time by myself to recalibrate etc. I've known plenty of extroverts who can also be socially awkward, but it's just in different ways than us introverts. All of us, both introverts and extroverts, have to learn how to properly calibrate to the universe. Anyway, I know what you mean, and yes, that's something that anyone can work on and improve, I sure know I have a lot more to work on in that area. Unfortunately, porn has definitely not helped us when it comes to our social anxiety etc., however, the further we stay away from it, the better it becomes. I know mine is getting better. Hell, now that I think about, does porn do anything good for us? :cool:

As far as your question goes, there's many things you could do I suppose. If you like to read books, great, maybe you could join a book club in your area for young adults etc., that would be a great way to meet women who love to read. And let's be honest, is there anything more sexy than smart bookish ladies? I think not :). What's more, you could go to your nearest bookstore and sit down and see what happens. Maybe a beauty will sit down besides you and you can use the greatest pickup line ever, "What's that you're reading?"🤣 And if you really want to stop giving a fuck (I know, easier said than done) you can just approach the one you like and say hello. Obviously, you have to do this respectfully and with tact, but it can work. Let's face it, before online dating (and porn lol) almost all men met their girl in one way or another similar to this. None of us would be here if our dads and grandpas didn't make their move on our sweet moms and grandmas, literally! Thus, if we really want to embrace life, it's time to take life in our own hands, and out of our palms. Unfortunately, unlike in porn videos, women just don't jump on your bone without talking and approaching them first. I know, it's strange but true!

Well, you might ask, Blondie, that's great on paper, but what the fuck would I say to a girl I don't even know? That's a good question, and here's my answer. How about the truth. How about being authentic to yourself and her? How about being in the moment and not in your head? How about no modern games. I read that idea once in a book, and it completely blew my mind! Could it really be that easy?? At that time I was playing games, trying to be the "cool guy", you know, the guy who stands in the corner like James Bond and all the girls love. And, as you now know, I'm an introvert, so I had that whole "strong silent type" nailed down to a T. Anyway, I was always thinking to myself, maybe just maybe if I look cool enough, a girl will approach me. Or as it usually happened (if I was lucky enough to talk to a girl), I would try to be "cool" so as to not mess up and show her my true self🤦‍♂️. Needless to say, none of that works and women (yes they do make us men better) see right through it all and walk away, or laugh about it with their friends and won't take you seriously - and why should they?

So what's a guy to do? Well, you could just walk up to her and tell her your truth. And what is your truth? Everything that you're thinking about in that moment. You're probably thinking about your fears, the excitement of the possibilities, and, your utter amazement at her feminine grace and beauty, thus, that's exactly what you tell her. "Hi, I'm Logicprox, I'm scared shitless at the moment, but I had to come over here and say hello to you. What is your name?" Then you sit back in all your masculine glory and see what happens. This "line" is great, because one, it's not a pickup line (I hate that shit), two, you're being authentic to yourself and to her (women love that), and three, she really can't "reject" you. Sure, she might not be interested, or she might have a boyfriend or whatever, however, she cannot reject your truth. Why? Because it's your truth! More importantly, you didn't ask for her number nor her time, or anything in fact from her, you just told her your truth and nothing more. What's more, as I mentioned previously, you do this with an attitude of fun and joy and NOT with an attitude of trying to get something from her, i.e. sex. Women can feel the difference, and it's a night and day difference.

Obviously this shit can be scary, but hey, we only live once. Us men are always afraid about what "might" happen, however, we should elevate our thoughts to what "could" happen instead. We make this stuff way too hard for ourselves. What if that cute girl across the coffee shop would actually like you if only you would ask her? What if you two had amazing conversations for hours on end and then had great sex afterwards? Thinking of these lofty thoughts just might push you through your fears and anxieties.

Possibilities are everywhere, if only we would get our eyes off the screen and into the real wonderful world of women.

I hope that helps.

P.S. In my day (when I was 30 and 31) I was definitely no player or master of women lol, trust me, many times I was awkward as fuck. And although I would never say how many women - I think guys who brag about that are vacuous and misogynistic - you can take my word for it that it's a very very low number. However, I did get out there and tried many things, plus cried a few times and got my heart broken too, not to mention my ego! I also learned by reading quite a few psychology and dating books (the dating ones are often pretty terrible to be honest) and more often than not, just by making "mistakes". Nevertheless, I was desperate to learn about women, so, little by little, I did get better and more social and that's fun to look back on to this day. Eventually I did meet my current girlfriend, and I can honestly say I played no stupid games and was authentic with her, or pretty damn close. :cool: I even told her straight up about my porn use, not right away, but a month or so into our relationship. Needless to say, I was definitely not the cool "Strong silent type" of man that I was when I had started out on my journey two years before that.

Authenticity really can work.

Best
Appreciate this! My biggest issue has honestly always been the initiation, the what do I say, etc. Your radical approach of saying what you are thinking is interesting haha. Pondering. Will play with this.
 

logicprox

Well-Known Member
34 days. I had a really hard time falling asleep last night. Took a couple hours. Felt pretty tempted to at least MO. Reality is it wouldn't have changed anything. For all the times I used to try to relax and fall asleep, I don't know that I can honestly say it ever worked.

Besides, even if it did, what's a little trouble falling asleep one night compared to a lifetime of being controlled by fantasy?
 

logicprox

Well-Known Member
Almost forgot I wanted to post about my out of town schedule adjustment, since i fly out tonight. Mostly for my own accountability.

It's not dramatically different than my normal schedule, but adjusting for the fact that while I am out there I will be starting work one hour earlier and be working a little later too...

My normal schedule is:

Wake
Make Bed
Floss/Brush
RebootNation
Read a little easypeasymethod.org
Meditate for 10 minutes
Practice singing for 15 minutes
Work out
Shower
Morning face routine
Work
Lunch break Ironman training session (M/W/F only)
Work
Practice music production
Brush
Night face routine
Evaluate day/plan next day (admittedly I am so-so on doing this)
Read
Sleep

While I am out of town, given time constraints, minor modifications in bold:

Wake
Make Bed
Floss/Brush
Meditate for 5 minutes
Practice singing for 5 minutes
Work out (and post on RebootNation and do my EasyPeasy reading either from the exercise bike or between sets, depending on the day)

Shower
Morning face routine
Work
Lunch break Ironman training session (M/W/F only)
Work
Practice music production
Brush
Night face routine
Evaluate day/plan next day (admittedly I am so-so on doing this)
Read
Sleep

On the weekend I do intend to go out to some bars, but as in my previous post am eliminating all expectation of actually meeting a women and having sex. It will just be about practicing some behaviors I've been trying to improve and just having fun. I will limit myself to being out for 4 hours maximum, with 4 drinks maximum. At one an hour I will not become drunk and won't have the issue of coming back to my hotel drunk and using. However, if I do feel at all inclined to use when I get home, I will get a book from my room and read out in the lobby until it passes.
 

logicprox

Well-Known Member
38 days. First night out of town. No issue. Had another dream about using. But I didn’t use, just a dream.

Stuck to night routine to the extent possible based on what time I arrived at my hotel.

Morning routine on track so far but I did almost forget to post here and read Easy Peasy while in the bike. But I did remember. New routine, going to require some more mindfulness.
 

logicprox

Well-Known Member
4 drinks could put your willpower at risk. See what you learn.
Thanks, I think that’s possible, though as long as it’s spread over 4 hours it shouldn’t do too much to me. I have a fairly high natural tolerance (I don’t consider this a good thing).

Certainly will remain vigilant though.
 

logicprox

Well-Known Member
39 days. Almost forgot to post between strength sets this morning. But here I am.

Was a little triggered from a very general perspective last night, I think just because my brain has associated sitting in a hotel room at night with using to some extent. But historically I also just end up on the hotel tv in that scenario and that leads to using. I just read instead, since that’s the schedule. Urges passed without incident.
 

logicprox

Well-Known Member
41 days. Almost forgot at the gym again. Thinking about tweaking my plan a little bit. My brain is already remembering to do it pre gym based on the habit I had at home, but I don’t cause I leave for the gym. So maybe I shouldn’t mess with it.
 

logicprox

Well-Known Member
42 days. Interesting night. Went out to a bar solo intending to have my 4 drinks and head home. The bar had a video playing that was basically soft porn. Could have been triggering but I was able to use a little mindfulness and disassociate it in my mind and just see it as pixels and colors. But there was that.

Talked to a couple people briefly at the bar. Then met a girl at the bar who introduced me to a number of people who I hung out with for a bit.
But turns out she is a stripper who 'dabbles" in sex work ha. And she was trying to convince me to pay her to have sex. She was definitely trying t sell hard including trying to rope her other friend into it and describing what she likes to do. Not judging, but paying for sex is not for me and I will admit I gave it too much time trying to see if there might be a more normal opportunity with her but ultimately walked. Could have been a little bit of trigger too but just didn't dwell on it and moved on.

Then I met a girl who I went home with ha. But my dick is not recovered. It's better, but not enough to get it done. That used to hit me emotionally more but honestly just acted like I didn't really care and she didn't seem to care anyway. Still had a good time and gave her a good night and she gave me her phone number for next time I am in town.

I did have 5 drinks instead of 4 cause I wasn't thinking when I had a shot with that girl's group. Also I forgot that my state has much tighter alcohol controls and the drinks are weaker. So now I have a pretty bbad hangover from the much stronger drinks.

But no porn.
 

logicprox

Well-Known Member
43 days. Much less eventful night at the bar, but I practiced some of the behaviors I wanted to while out. Since that was the established goal the night was a success. Did have to remind myself of that to not go down my established "night out seeing beautiful women and not getting laid" script, which includes some self soothing porn. But once I reminded myself, not doing that was no problem.

Honestly the urges have been feeling fainter the past few weeks, similar to what happened during my 66 day streak last year, but perhaps even more so. But then, I wonder if that is really true, or if the truth is just that I am paying less mind to them when they arise. I think the mindfulness work I have done every day of 2023 is actually helping. I am learning to not resist or fight with the urges when they come, but instead to just acknowledge they have come and turn my attention back to what I am doing. Fighting with them just makes them feel bigger and bigger. But I don't need to fight them. They just float by if I don't pay them any mind other than to notice they happened.

I used to have such a negative opinion of mindfulness and meditation and think it was just mystical nonsense for the weak-minded. Similar to how I used to feel about self-help books. I am embarrassed now that I held those attitudes. Its the strong who are willing to investigate their own mind and seek whatever methods can lead them to the life they want.

I spent too much of my life trying to be strong and self-sufficient instead of using the resources available to me to craft a life worth living.
 

logicprox

Well-Known Member
44 days. Instead of sitting around my hotel on a Sunday like I historically have when out of town, I got myself out for most of the day. I found a coffee shop to go work on music at for a few hours, like I usually do when I am at home, then went and browsed a few bookstores.

Historically I have tried to work on music from my hotel but have lost focus, ended up binging Netflix or something, and often that’s led me back to porn.

So I left and none of that happened so porn barely crossed my mind at all.
 

logicprox

Well-Known Member
45 days. I feel like I had a few more urges yesterday than in most other days recently. But just noticed them, remembered porn doesn’t actually give me the real life women I want, and moved focus to whatever I was doing. They passed and that’s that.

Porn gives me nothing.
 
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