Zander Reboot - Light at the end of the tunnel

zander13

Well-Known Member
I'm experiencing the same roller coaster shit and I can't imagine doing it for 21 month :LOL: , keep rolling bro keep rolling
Thanks man. You as well.

Had another wet dream this morning. I went from not getting any at all to getting them once a week or so. The dream in and of itself was wacky and fucked up, so I'm not in a healthy libido zone, but yeah, another wetty.
 

zander13

Well-Known Member
Watching someone's dogs for the weekend, and their cleaning girl and I were alone in the house. I got an erection thinking about hooking up with her after our initial greeting (it was pleasant and she smiled bashfully), and quickly realized that I shouldn't trust anything that was happening to me. I'm still operating under old patterns. Porn still has a hold on my sexuality. I was chasing a high--using real life to mirror a porn scene I'd undoubtedly seen at some point during my long career as a porn consumer. None of it was real--it was all in the chase of the drug.

Sad to think that my sexuality is still this warped, but there is nothing I can do to change it. Wishing it were another way only adds an extra layer of stress.

Buddhism is something that will get me through to the finish line. I really don't think I would be able to withstand the day-to-day struggles without Buddhist philosophies, even though I attribute so much of my success to therapy and self-revelation. They're both super fucking important, but yeah, Buddhism is a big one when it comes to the x's and o's of abstention.

Need to be on high guard. That experience could have sent some chemicals to the wrong places.

I will say that I am happy that I was able to recognize what was going on. The way I dealt with it was I removed myself from the room I was in, went outside, and called my best buddy. After 2 minutes I was fully immersed in our conversation and was able to exit the fantasy land of porn.
 

Phineas 808

Respected Member
Zander, I don't doubt that porn jacks up our way of thinking toward sex in general, and specifically toward the opposite sex. But could your reactions to the maid have been normal physiological reactions? She was probably pretty, and your interaction seemed to indicate a mutual attraction.

Though I do challenge myself, that yes in public I'll acknowledge a woman's beauty- but if I'm playing out a fantasy in my mind, I'm like, "This isn't a porn-scene that I have to fantasize like this!"- or, "What? Am I going to just 'do her' in the supermarket??"
 

Flesh

Member
+1, it seems a bit excessive of a way of thinking to me, but I can get behind it as long as u're not out of that extended flatline. I just mean that if, as phineas said, she was anything else than looking like a man (lol), it's a normal thing that ur brain goes that way x) and anyone not fucked by porn would have these thoughts and desire (anyone, in general).
 

zander13

Well-Known Member
Yeah I see what you guys are saying. I've wavered back and forth, to be honest. At the end of the day, it felt more like a high than it did a good thing. I don't know what a healthy libido feels like as an adult, but I'm pretty sure that what I was feeling the other day wasn't completely natural. It turned into a scenario, rather than a lived in moment. 100%. I don't believe that true attraction involves objectification, and the girl had turned into something that I would use rather than a person that I could meet with in the middle. It felt like it was coming from a place of insecurity.

Regardless, thanks for questioning my conclusions. At the end of the day, let's all get out of this mess.
 

zander13

Well-Known Member
In the midst of a darker day. The severity of the pain is lessened. By quite a lot. But it's still no fun. I think tomorrow and the next coupla days after that are going to be easier, so just gotta stay smart and grounded for the rest of today/tonight.

20 days away from 22 months.
 

zander13

Well-Known Member
Endured a string of 8-10 days of pretty severe difficulty. Last night my brain wanted me to watch porn so badly that it took every ounce of my concentration to actively deny its requests. Past scenes were literally shoving themselves to the forefront of my consciousness, and seemingly everything was a trigger. Just goes to show that even at 22 months cravings can still hit you hard.

Don't know how long this is going to take for me. A friend on another forum sent me a story on Nofap of a guy taking 27 months. If that's the case for me then I need to refortify myself. 24 months might not be the threshold for me, as I've already stated in previous entries. I can't allow myself to be let down if it takes longer. That's a set up for relapse.

Sometimes the best way to combat urges is to distract myself. I ended up going to the gym, followed by a couple hours of gaming. Video games, though, in my opinion, a time waster overall, can be very beneficial when it comes to passing time. When I'm out of this extended flatline I plan on quitting them for good, but for now, they really help me engage my mind so that I don't have to think/succumb to porn.

Tired of watching time go by. I really, really am. My spirit has been ground down to a powder. 22 months seems, to me, to be a very unfair amount of time to suffer, but maybe, one day, I'll be thankful that I went through this. It can be a source of pride. Only I know how difficult it truly was, and I'm kind of carrying that mindset to all facets of life. I no longer rely on others' opinions as much. I'm very confident in the idea that this addiction has ravaged my life, and that I shouldn't be ashamed of my present inaction. I have no worries about the future. Aligning myself with my passions will be a welcome experience, not a daunting one. I have my "career" narrowed down to a couple of options, and both of them sound exciting to me.

Instead of beating myself up, I've come to realize that other people are quite often to blame. I don't care if that doesn't fall in line with AA philosophies or anything like that. It's just the truth. My parents are emotionally immature people, and the more that time goes on the more I realize it. The bubble I grew up in was very ill-suited to my personality and core, internal, born-with values. I've had to completely alienate myself from my "roots" in order to see the light. It's just flat out shocking how all of the adults in my life let me down. As I turn 30 I realize more and more how much "adults" don't know shit. In fact, many of them have strayed from their true selves and are even more toxic than children. It takes a lot for me to trust someone, and I'm oaky with that. I have some very good friends who I love dearly, and that's enough for me. I don't like most people, and that'll never change. No need to force it. Ego is a dangerous, dangerous thing to be surrounded by, and I just won't stand for it any longer. Most people are just flat-out boring too. I like the ones who think outside the box.

In the end its our responsibility to seek our own happiness, and sometimes that means shunning people who need to be shunned. Fuck them. Fuck em' all. I love myself more than ever before, and most of them are not part of that equation.

Good luck to everyone.
 

Flesh

Member
Hi zander, happy to hear about you again.

For the "ppl are mostly dumb" part :

U have no clue how much I'm exactly in that process of trying to understand why I feel so disconnected from most "adult people", I'm someone who's always trying to take a step back and look for the missing stone, what I missed and didn't understand. But Idk when I walk around anywhere I see 98% lost people, who got dominated by anxiety, fear, depression, hopelessness and at the end of the day, just gave up on striving in life, they just let a shitty job and a trash routine lead them in life, feeding copying mecanisms for their insecurities all day long.

Other are more grounded I feel, but in their own world kind of/they miss a part of the reality they fail to grasp, like when you talk to them u feel like they have the will to take things in consideration, sometimes (rarely) even take a step back on their view, but they just don't have what's requiered to "get it" (weither is it IQ or just lack of tool or time to develop that part of their thinking idk and idc that's the same result).

Finally I think there is that very little part of the population that's "adult" really, they're not "man child/women child". But even in this part I feel like an outsider, in the sense that I'm a thinker/philosophe, don't get me wrong there is ppl like me, I'm not saying i'm unique I'm really damn not but even in that last part I feel like there is just little amount of ppl I can connect with, talk about my shit, and they really grasp it.

And there is these ppl that are just beyond what my brain capacity of thinking, I have no ego problem with it, that's just genetic to me (and of course the mind has to be shaped in a way to express this "potential", there is so much high IQ yet dumb ppl. I think these don't lack IQ but just wisdom to get a wide view of things.

Being smart and wise being two different things to me, but the first leaves more potential for the second to grow.

PS : My dad is a kid (and I still live with him and my bro at 26), litteraly I tried to talk to him, it's sad and hard at first coz u placed him in the spot of a father and now u just realise it's not, it's just a guy (and one that's like that crowd I feel so disconnected from).

PS2: I only have one friend, my best friend I see every once in a while, the only person I ever been able to connect with really (there was a old man at some point earlier in life, we would share philosophy but age difference made it not like a friendship really). So yes, be happy to have some that u can see regularly^^. Feeling disconnected from anyone all the time is not the best feeling to grow for yourself, let aside the happiness social circle brings (but I go around that problem, ty to the infinite internet knowledge).

I don't like most people, and that'll never change. No need to force it. Ego is a dangerous, dangerous thing to be surrounded by, and I just won't stand for it any longer. Most people are just flat-out boring too. I like the ones who think outside the box.
That one brought me a tear ngl. That's how disconnected i am xD


For the 24+months period part :

This is nuts how fucked up was your brain. It's absolutely not to bragg or anything, just draw the contrast, I've been fapping for 13yrs (7 yrs once a day, 6 years 2 to 3, sometimes 4 times a day) but I stopped nofap after 52 days and went on a different approach regarding MO for some reasons. First, I got detached from porn mentally decently quick, my urges were really not about porn, essentially MO. I still had some flashback here and there but nothing that would get me thinking mo or pmo, just like memories. And I could talk about how i'm approaching the thing now but it's not the point and I don't want to just talk about my shit for no reasons.

The point i'm making above is that I used to be what u could call a heavy consumer of porn but still, it didn't take that long for me to wrap up with the habit, and the whole thing overall. I'm still exploring what would work with MO only (frenquency, time of the day, etc) but I feel like the fight with porn and high dopamine kicks ultra regularly is over, don't get me wrong, my brain be like "hey bro remember that good shit", but it's like a candy to me, I just choose not to eat it because ik short term is good but long term is bad and the choice is a nobrainer. In short, my experience is that fighting porn was a thing worth doing, fighting biology was necessary for the 1st fight but isn't anymore (but it needs to get regulated). And I could eat my own words later but so far I just feel like the one I expected to be once I would be "recovered", I feel energized, motivated to live this damn life, I do hard things (and I'm 5 weeks into cutting, I feel some tiring from calorie deficit but that energy of wanting to live life is so much more powerfull). It's not been long since day 52 so I'm carefull about what the body says and eventually if that's just a high and I got carried away for nothing, I'll just go back to a hardmode, that's a nobrainer aswell.

So what is the difference between me (the kind who supposedly recover in few months) and guys who takes a lot of time ?

I don't have a "proven facts" answer but I feel like most of these longer time needed reporters all have some of the same traits in common, they did spend hours and hours on porn, and edging a lot of the time. What do you think of that ? Coz that's really the only thing I can see that differ. I never really edged, would spend 5-10min wacking and we were good. I'm sorry that a lot of words just for exposing a theory of mine and not bringing any wisdom but I think u're the right guy to ask for the opinion.

For the video game thing :

That's exactly what I did aswell, it feels bad to know u're just kind of wasting time but I saw it as investment as I knew I would never just "relapse", go back to my old habits and have wasted this time playing and still be at square 1, so it felt and was worth it.
 

zander13

Well-Known Member
I'm too t
Hi zander, happy to hear about you again.

For the "ppl are mostly dumb" part :

U have no clue how much I'm exactly in that process of trying to understand why I feel so disconnected from most "adult people", I'm someone who's always trying to take a step back and look for the missing stone, what I missed and didn't understand. But Idk when I walk around anywhere I see 98% lost people, who got dominated by anxiety, fear, depression, hopelessness and at the end of the day, just gave up on striving in life, they just let a shitty job and a trash routine lead them in life, feeding copying mecanisms for their insecurities all day long.

Other are more grounded I feel, but in their own world kind of/they miss a part of the reality they fail to grasp, like when you talk to them u feel like they have the will to take things in consideration, sometimes (rarely) even take a step back on their view, but they just don't have what's requiered to "get it" (weither is it IQ or just lack of tool or time to develop that part of their thinking idk and idc that's the same result).

Finally I think there is that very little part of the population that's "adult" really, they're not "man child/women child". But even in this part I feel like an outsider, in the sense that I'm a thinker/philosophe, don't get me wrong there is ppl like me, I'm not saying i'm unique I'm really damn not but even in that last part I feel like there is just little amount of ppl I can connect with, talk about my shit, and they really grasp it.

And there is these ppl that are just beyond what my brain capacity of thinking, I have no ego problem with it, that's just genetic to me (and of course the mind has to be shaped in a way to express this "potential", there is so much high IQ yet dumb ppl. I think these don't lack IQ but just wisdom to get a wide view of things.

Being smart and wise being two different things to me, but the first leaves more potential for the second to grow.

PS : My dad is a kid (and I still live with him and my bro at 26), litteraly I tried to talk to him, it's sad and hard at first coz u placed him in the spot of a father and now u just realise it's not, it's just a guy (and one that's like that crowd I feel so disconnected from).

PS2: I only have one friend, my best friend I see every once in a while, the only person I ever been able to connect with really (there was a old man at some point earlier in life, we would share philosophy but age difference made it not like a friendship really). So yes, be happy to have some that u can see regularly^^. Feeling disconnected from anyone all the time is not the best feeling to grow for yourself, let aside the happiness social circle brings (but I go around that problem, ty to the infinite internet knowledge).


That one brought me a tear ngl. That's how disconnected i am xD


For the 24+months period part :

This is nuts how fucked up was your brain. It's absolutely not to bragg or anything, just draw the contrast, I've been fapping for 13yrs (7 yrs once a day, 6 years 2 to 3, sometimes 4 times a day) but I stopped nofap after 52 days and went on a different approach regarding MO for some reasons. First, I got detached from porn mentally decently quick, my urges were really not about porn, essentially MO. I still had some flashback here and there but nothing that would get me thinking mo or pmo, just like memories. And I could talk about how i'm approaching the thing now but it's not the point and I don't want to just talk about my shit for no reasons.

The point i'm making above is that I used to be what u could call a heavy consumer of porn but still, it didn't take that long for me to wrap up with the habit, and the whole thing overall. I'm still exploring what would work with MO only (frenquency, time of the day, etc) but I feel like the fight with porn and high dopamine kicks ultra regularly is over, don't get me wrong, my brain be like "hey bro remember that good shit", but it's like a candy to me, I just choose not to eat it because ik short term is good but long term is bad and the choice is a nobrainer. In short, my experience is that fighting porn was a thing worth doing, fighting biology was necessary for the 1st fight but isn't anymore (but it needs to get regulated). And I could eat my own words later but so far I just feel like the one I expected to be once I would be "recovered", I feel energized, motivated to live this damn life, I do hard things (and I'm 5 weeks into cutting, I feel some tiring from calorie deficit but that energy of wanting to live life is so much more powerfull). It's not been long since day 52 so I'm carefull about what the body says and eventually if that's just a high and I got carried away for nothing, I'll just go back to a hardmode, that's a nobrainer aswell.

So what is the difference between me (the kind who supposedly recover in few months) and guys who takes a lot of time ?

I don't have a "proven facts" answer but I feel like most of these longer time needed reporters all have some of the same traits in common, they did spend hours and hours on porn, and edging a lot of the time. What do you think of that ? Coz that's really the only thing I can see that differ. I never really edged, would spend 5-10min wacking and we were good. I'm sorry that a lot of words just for exposing a theory of mine and not bringing any wisdom but I think u're the right guy to ask for the opinion.

For the video game thing :

That's exactly what I did aswell, it feels bad to know u're just kind of wasting time but I saw it as investment as I knew I would never just "relapse", go back to my old habits and have wasted this time playing and still be at square 1, so it felt and was worth it.
I'm too tired at the moment to reply to everything you said, but you are correct. Edging ruined me. I also kindled my addiction, which means that I would go for long periods of abstinence followed by short but intense binge sessions, all of which involved edging.

I don't know why kindling is worse than steady relapse, but it is. For alcoholics, enough kindling can cause seizures and much other more serious shit, including death. So yeah, edging and kindling. Most of the folks on the PAWs forum I go to were edgers.
 

Jeks

Well-Known Member
Man, i hope you will feel better soon. You deserve it so much.
As you often say yourself, our brains are plastic. There is no real reason, why you should not be able to feel better again, especially when you take into account, that you already managed to get better once. PAWS are a well-known phenomenon and there will be surely an end to it.
Best of luck man! Stay strong!
 

zander13

Well-Known Member
@Jeks Thanks bro.

I'm about to get fuckin' railed by withdrawals over the next several days. I'm hitting the lowest part of the valley, and it might last over a week or so. At this point I just know when I know. Old hat and whatnot.
 

zander13

Well-Known Member
So far my prediction has been wrong, but we'll see what happens. Still confident that I have some really rough times ahead of me in the not-so-distant future. I gotta earn every centimeter of clarity. Because that's what this fight is about: achieving absolute clarity. Porn drowned out my nerve endings, making it easier to move through a false world. As I've said before, fuck that blueprint. I want to feel everything, and to not be ashamed of those feelings. I want to get better so badly I can't even begin to describe it. If there is a God out there, please help me make it through this final stretch. I've come so fucking far.

Need to be extra, extra, extra vigilant. No room for error.
 

zander13

Well-Known Member
I was right. Today has been awful. I expect more rough days to come.

It's 1:16 and I'm strugglin' real bad right now. God dammit.
 
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zander13

Well-Known Member
Can't ever forget that I'm doing this for me and me only. Gotta keep stayin' vigilant. No fuckups in the final stretch. Things will smooth out with time.

Still in the rough times. I expect them to last for another month or so. Who knows what will happen after that. I'll be on month 23 by then, but I think it's safer for me to let go of the 24 month epiphany. It'll take as long as it's going to take. If I'm looking at this whole thing with a camera completely zoomed out, then I'd be able to see that another 3-4 months on top of the previous 24 won't destroy me. It'll be really fucking shitty, but it won't completely end me. Not relapsing is the only choice I can make at this moment, so I'm going to continue to make it.

Don't know how I'll feel about all of this once the dust settles. Hopefully I'll be so wrapped up in the moment that I won't dwell on the pain for too long. It'll forever be in my heart--I know that. But I hope I don't return to it often. I have a lot of lost time to make up for, and for every month that get's added to the flatline, I desire "freedom" even more than I did previously. My hunger for the light at the end of the tunnel is ravenous.
 
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Flesh

Member
sup, idk if u're interested in these contents but I shared a video of a podcast talking about the world of addiction, this is, imo, a very very good interview.

Don't know how I'll feel about all of this once the dust settles
Some of the biggest win of your life I imagine xD
 

zander13

Well-Known Member
I liked the video. Good find man.

A lot of food for thought...I'm sure I'll be thinking about some of their thoughts/findings all throughout the day.

Edit: For me, the more stuff I learn(ed) thorughout this process, the better equipped I became to deal with how fucking hard this shit is.

Glad she said how hard it is. It's not easy, for any of us.
 

zander13

Well-Known Member
Still in the valley. Think I'm going to have 1 or 2 more really difficult days (amidst another month or so of hard ones, though that timeframe may be incorrect. It'll either be another month of valley living or I'll start climbing within the next 10 days. That's what my heart is telling me) before I start my ascent.

In unknown territory. I have no idea where I'm at.

Really starting to think that it's going to take me longer than 24 months.

Spirits aren't completely crushed atm. About to go workout and eat healthy. I'm in terrific physical shape tbh. My diet is really damn good.

Been able to squeak productive things in between the cracks. Proud of myself for that. Proves to me that once I have the full capacity to kick ass, I will. That'll be the easy part.
 

Flesh

Member
Just for sake of sharing references, I'm 10 years into weight training and I discovered leangains few weeks ago, if u don't know (that's a method but the website has the same name +".com"). It has been life changing for me in just few weeks because of the training format (and i've tried a shit ton of formats) and the eating format. I'm currently a 5 weeks into cutting and never been as strong as I am now xD (but I suffered fuckarounditis for few years lol (if u search for "leangains fuckarounditis" u'll know what i'm talking about, it's so funny but can be so true)).
 
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