Zander Reboot - Light at the end of the tunnel
- Thread starter zander13
- Start date
zander13
Respected Member
Still in the midst of the rough spot. It'll probably end up last for another week or so. Once again, I wish I could just get it over with, but I have no control over this thing.
Edit: I actually think I'm at the end of it. Instead of 7 days it'll probably be shorter. When it's this bad I feel so alone, and time just inches by. I'm completely out of the moment.
It's going to be so hard if I have to deal with more of this kind of shit.
Edit: I actually think I'm at the end of it. Instead of 7 days it'll probably be shorter. When it's this bad I feel so alone, and time just inches by. I'm completely out of the moment.
It's going to be so hard if I have to deal with more of this kind of shit.
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maverick23
Member
Hey @zander13,
I have been going through your posts/story.
Keep trucking man.
I am going through hell with the withdrawal symptoms. And I am just on Day 59.
I am experiencing all the psychological withdrawal symptoms like anxiety, depression, overthinking.
I will keep following this thread. Your posts resonate with me with a lot.
I have been going through your posts/story.
Keep trucking man.
I am going through hell with the withdrawal symptoms. And I am just on Day 59.
I am experiencing all the psychological withdrawal symptoms like anxiety, depression, overthinking.
I will keep following this thread. Your posts resonate with me with a lot.
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zander13
Respected Member
First of all, thank you. Thank you very much. Second--Godspeed man. Just know that these withdrawals cause a significant amount of discomfort. If you find yourself getting down on your life, try and take a step back and see if you're seeing things in a negative light because of the anxiety/depression. Tall order. I fuck this up all the time and end up mistaking the awfulness as a representation of the world at large. This is wrong. Our perceptions are being distorted. It's a fucking parasite, this addiction.
Hope this isn't too much advice or lecturing or whatever. It's just something I thought I should mention in case it happens to you. Good luck, and nice job on the (I'm assuming) 60+ days.
As far as how I'm doing, it's safe to say that I'm entering that phase where my spirit feels frail. It's on the cusp of feeling broken. And it's weird, because I know this isn't a permanent state, but just because I know that doesn't mean my spirit isn't fracturing. This happens every 3 months or so, and every time it hurts like a bitch.
There's a difference, to me, between spirit and hope. My spirit is allowed to break. But I cannot let the hope spring run dry. I've been there before--that's a realm where life's worthiness get's questioned. And I'm not being dramatic, it's just a shitty place that I've been to before.
Hoping that something comes along the road that'll lift me up a little. The last three days have been so bad that I don't even really want to talk about it.
zander13
Respected Member
Wheels are in motion. I'm now fully in the process of arranging a move to NYC. Contacting landlords, etc. I may not be out of the flatline but I'm still going to do it. I'm tired of letting this shit control my every move.
I'm scared shitless but I feel that it's time.
I'm scared shitless but I feel that it's time.
zander13
Respected Member
Got in contact with some landlords. Going to be a longer process but I've begun it, which is all that matters. Only a matter of time now that I took that all important first step.
As far as the flatline is concerned, I'm thinking it's going to take 30+ months before I'm somewhere near what a normal person is. Depressing, but I gotta keep on living.
Will ended up being a 3 year affair I think. For some reason kindling is the worst thing of all.
Hopefully the symptoms will start to get easier. That would be nice. But for now, they cycles still continue as they always have, so there no huge chance has occurred yet. And I mean that: no major symptom has been alleviated and/or removed from the equation.
As far as the flatline is concerned, I'm thinking it's going to take 30+ months before I'm somewhere near what a normal person is. Depressing, but I gotta keep on living.
Will ended up being a 3 year affair I think. For some reason kindling is the worst thing of all.
Hopefully the symptoms will start to get easier. That would be nice. But for now, they cycles still continue as they always have, so there no huge chance has occurred yet. And I mean that: no major symptom has been alleviated and/or removed from the equation.
zander13
Respected Member
This is what I'm starting to believe is the essence of my withdrawals:
I'm slowly building a path back to the childlike version of me. I'm slowly processing all of the bullshit that the world has thrust upon me (and I have thrust upon it, I'm not entirely innocent. I have had to deal with many of the emotions caused by my own bad decisions). We are who we truly are when we are kids. Memories from my past are being processed almost every night of this flatline, and I'm now moving even further backwards. I skipped a lot of negative emotions through PMO, and I'm now, at the age of 30, having to deal with them. Last night I dealt with a particularly negative emotion involving a supposed childhood friend, whom my mother thrust upon me as a "best friend" because she was buddies with his parents. "But he's one of your best friends" she would tell me, thus robbing me of even the most intimate of choices in my life. I woke up feeling anger towards her. It was a scene I didn't even know I had locked away in my subconscious.
Once I process all of the dark stuff and have clear picture of my entire life, from beginning to now, is when this flatline will end. I'm calling it now. Or, as always, I could die at any moment having never fully resolved any of this. That's just the nature of life.
I'm slowly building a path back to the childlike version of me. I'm slowly processing all of the bullshit that the world has thrust upon me (and I have thrust upon it, I'm not entirely innocent. I have had to deal with many of the emotions caused by my own bad decisions). We are who we truly are when we are kids. Memories from my past are being processed almost every night of this flatline, and I'm now moving even further backwards. I skipped a lot of negative emotions through PMO, and I'm now, at the age of 30, having to deal with them. Last night I dealt with a particularly negative emotion involving a supposed childhood friend, whom my mother thrust upon me as a "best friend" because she was buddies with his parents. "But he's one of your best friends" she would tell me, thus robbing me of even the most intimate of choices in my life. I woke up feeling anger towards her. It was a scene I didn't even know I had locked away in my subconscious.
Once I process all of the dark stuff and have clear picture of my entire life, from beginning to now, is when this flatline will end. I'm calling it now. Or, as always, I could die at any moment having never fully resolved any of this. That's just the nature of life.
Good job on processing through things that you didn't get to, being robbed of your childhood!
Do you still plan to 'rewire' with a girl as you wrote above? Where are you at with that plan? It sounded good that you could thus jumpstart yourself out of this ongoing flatline.
Good luck.
zander13
Respected Member
@Phineas 808 Yeah it's been internalized. I'm now on the prowl, so to speak.
Been looking at posts of mine from years back, on both this and another forum (yourbrainrebalanced) I used to frequent.
Been in that kind of mood. It's been a long, long journey.
Been actively trying to not obsess about the symptoms. I ditched my excel document and am now just trying to eek out as much pleasure out of life as I can. Been able to watch some T.V. which is always nice. Still feel rough quite a bit, but things feel different I would say. Who knows if it'll last though.
My mind still has a hard time grasping the reality of life. Perspective has been something I've lacked. Part of the withdrawals. They place you into a hole. Time has been warped. Vision blurred. Details are undefinable. Only recently has my memory been somewhat functional.
Don't know when I'm going to make that trip to Brooklyn. Not trying to rush it, though I suspect it'll be soon. The weather is a deterrent. March, maybe. Don't think it'd be wise to move in the middle of the winter, though I so badly want a change.
Dono what else to say.
6 days away from 27 months clean from PMO. Never thought it would take this long.
My guess is that by month ~30-31 I'll be able to function enough to pass as a human. But it'll take 3(+) years for me to truly feel like myself.
Maybe things will happen sooner, I hope they do. But I'm not in the habit of expecting the best.
Been looking at posts of mine from years back, on both this and another forum (yourbrainrebalanced) I used to frequent.
Been in that kind of mood. It's been a long, long journey.
Been actively trying to not obsess about the symptoms. I ditched my excel document and am now just trying to eek out as much pleasure out of life as I can. Been able to watch some T.V. which is always nice. Still feel rough quite a bit, but things feel different I would say. Who knows if it'll last though.
My mind still has a hard time grasping the reality of life. Perspective has been something I've lacked. Part of the withdrawals. They place you into a hole. Time has been warped. Vision blurred. Details are undefinable. Only recently has my memory been somewhat functional.
Don't know when I'm going to make that trip to Brooklyn. Not trying to rush it, though I suspect it'll be soon. The weather is a deterrent. March, maybe. Don't think it'd be wise to move in the middle of the winter, though I so badly want a change.
Dono what else to say.
6 days away from 27 months clean from PMO. Never thought it would take this long.
My guess is that by month ~30-31 I'll be able to function enough to pass as a human. But it'll take 3(+) years for me to truly feel like myself.
Maybe things will happen sooner, I hope they do. But I'm not in the habit of expecting the best.
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jberg
Member
Hello zander13. After coming across your journal, I haven't stopped thinking about it, because I'm wondering about the path ahead for myself. You have been free of PMO for almost 27 months. Do you mind if I ask if you still MO or have euphoric recall? The only reason I ask is I am wondering how long this is going to take for myself. Please let me know if this question is against the etiquette of this forum.
zander13
Respected Member
@jberg I do not masturbate nor do I fantasize. Sometimes I begin to think about having relations with real women but I nip it in the bud very quickly. MO has lead to many relapses for me in the past. It is too tied up with this addiction for me.
I doubt it'll take you anywhere near as long as it has for me. I don't know your story, but if you can do simple things like read/watch movies/sleep normally then you're already doing much, much better than I am/was.
If you look at the beginning of my journal you'll see that I was basically recovered on day 200. I'd say that's a more realistic number for most folks.
If you're completely immobilized then you might be in a little more trouble than the average rebooter, but I still don't think it'll take you 30+ months like it will me.
Best way to figure out the difficulty level of your flatline is by not relapsing. That's the key to everything. I've seen a lot of folks come and go on this forum, and many of them fall out because of relapses. Many also succeed and leave this world for good.
I myself have relapsed dozens and dozens of times (probably ~100). I've fucked up so much that it eventually lead to my current streak. Rock bottom is a tremendous motivator.
Don't be me
If you ever have any questions feel free to reach out (you can just message me, though it might be beneficial to make it public in case someone else has a similar question. Or you could just not ask any questions at all). I'm not in the habit of lecturing people out of the blue, but I am willing to share my accumulated knowledge if people ask for it.
I doubt it'll take you anywhere near as long as it has for me. I don't know your story, but if you can do simple things like read/watch movies/sleep normally then you're already doing much, much better than I am/was.
If you look at the beginning of my journal you'll see that I was basically recovered on day 200. I'd say that's a more realistic number for most folks.
If you're completely immobilized then you might be in a little more trouble than the average rebooter, but I still don't think it'll take you 30+ months like it will me.
Best way to figure out the difficulty level of your flatline is by not relapsing. That's the key to everything. I've seen a lot of folks come and go on this forum, and many of them fall out because of relapses. Many also succeed and leave this world for good.
I myself have relapsed dozens and dozens of times (probably ~100). I've fucked up so much that it eventually lead to my current streak. Rock bottom is a tremendous motivator.
Don't be me
If you ever have any questions feel free to reach out (you can just message me, though it might be beneficial to make it public in case someone else has a similar question. Or you could just not ask any questions at all). I'm not in the habit of lecturing people out of the blue, but I am willing to share my accumulated knowledge if people ask for it.
jberg
Member
@zander13, thanks for the reply. I went back and read some more of your story. WOW! What a journey you have been on! One (of the many) things I have learned from your epic adventure is PERSEVERANCE! You have demonstrated for me what perseverance looks like. If I can stick with this program, I will get to wherever it is that I am supposed to be. If I veer off, I'm taking my life in my own hands.
zander13
Respected Member
@jberg Thanks man. Good luck to you my good sir.
A guy with the forum name of Don Quixote (on another forum I go to for long termers) once said that he started to feel flatline symptoms when he stared at computer screens. Over the past 4-5 days I've been noticing that this is beginning to happen to me as well, especially when I go to places like Youtube or LinkedIn. Social media is a fuckin' abomination--even something as innocent seeming as LinkedIn fucks with my brain. Anyways, he (Don Quixote) ended up getting out of PAWs and leaving the forum for good, and I like to believe that he was fairly far into his reboot when screens started giving him trouble. He deleted all of his posts for whatever reason so there is no way of truly knowing, but he was definitely far into it. Small little things like that are what I cling to when things get rough.
I don't know if any of that has any significance, but it's just something I've noticed. It feels kinda nice to finally have some symptoms that are aligning with people who have succeeded. Kind of solidifies everything I've been hinging my hopes on, though I already knew I was right. Nothing, or no one, has the power to sway what I believe to be true, but outside evidence confirming my beliefs never hurt anybody.
Still can't read yet. That's something I wish was different with a great degree of magnitude. Once I get that back I'll easily ignore any remaining deficiencies. But my gut is telling me that it'll be one of the last things to arrive, and it will coincide with an almost complete freedom from the flatline. Being able to enjoy writing, specifically fiction, requires a vivid imagination and a deep well of emotions. So an ability to be completely engaged in someone else's words will signify that my emotional capacity is back online. At the end of the day, emotions are the holy grail of this story. They are what I'm after. So reading=emotions, which = where I want to be recovery-wise. Sex is empty without it anyways, so even that comes second to emotions. By far.
Who tf knows where I'm at right now. I could be on the cusp of a flatline departure, or I could be on the precipice of yet another cliff. Good thing is, even if there is another cliff on the horizon, I really couldn't see it being as deep or as treacherous as the ones I've already fallen into. There's just no way. All of my instincts, at this moment, are telling me that I've been through the worst these withdrawals could throw at me (could be completely and utterly wrong though. I won't let my hope blindside me. And, on top of that, I speak cockily now, but another cliff would still suck a giant dick. They last way too fucking long. It'll definitely fuck my shit up, regardless of it's relative ease when compared to previous ones).
I'm confused as hell at the moment. I don't know what to expect or what to think. I don't want to eat my words in a month. I don't want to get myself too juiced up. But jesus man, in 2 days I'll be at 27 months. An easier road to freedom isn't too much to ask for at this point.
In my dreams I still am processing some random stuff. For instance, last night I dreamt that I shook hands with a guy that I forget existed. It was a vivid picture of him. Haven't interacted with him since middle school(ish). Crazy.
Sadly, my dreams, for the most part, usually have a negative tint to them--signs of lingering depression and anhedonia. Nowhere near as many outright nightmares, but I'd much prefer pleasant dreams to dark ones.
My dreams are also fractured and choppy in nature. Like a faint, cut-up movie playing in the background. I think the levels of vividness coincide with my thoughts on reading fiction. They will clear up at similar rates of speed.
To sum it all up: I don't know what's next. But that's nothing new. The worst part about this shit is that you have no idea how long it will last, or how hard the remainder of it will be. Every morning I wake up and immediately begin analyzing how I'm feeling. I'm excited for the day when I no longer have to do that. I just want to be a normal fucking person who wakes up and thinks about making coffee.
A guy with the forum name of Don Quixote (on another forum I go to for long termers) once said that he started to feel flatline symptoms when he stared at computer screens. Over the past 4-5 days I've been noticing that this is beginning to happen to me as well, especially when I go to places like Youtube or LinkedIn. Social media is a fuckin' abomination--even something as innocent seeming as LinkedIn fucks with my brain. Anyways, he (Don Quixote) ended up getting out of PAWs and leaving the forum for good, and I like to believe that he was fairly far into his reboot when screens started giving him trouble. He deleted all of his posts for whatever reason so there is no way of truly knowing, but he was definitely far into it. Small little things like that are what I cling to when things get rough.
I don't know if any of that has any significance, but it's just something I've noticed. It feels kinda nice to finally have some symptoms that are aligning with people who have succeeded. Kind of solidifies everything I've been hinging my hopes on, though I already knew I was right. Nothing, or no one, has the power to sway what I believe to be true, but outside evidence confirming my beliefs never hurt anybody.
Still can't read yet. That's something I wish was different with a great degree of magnitude. Once I get that back I'll easily ignore any remaining deficiencies. But my gut is telling me that it'll be one of the last things to arrive, and it will coincide with an almost complete freedom from the flatline. Being able to enjoy writing, specifically fiction, requires a vivid imagination and a deep well of emotions. So an ability to be completely engaged in someone else's words will signify that my emotional capacity is back online. At the end of the day, emotions are the holy grail of this story. They are what I'm after. So reading=emotions, which = where I want to be recovery-wise. Sex is empty without it anyways, so even that comes second to emotions. By far.
Who tf knows where I'm at right now. I could be on the cusp of a flatline departure, or I could be on the precipice of yet another cliff. Good thing is, even if there is another cliff on the horizon, I really couldn't see it being as deep or as treacherous as the ones I've already fallen into. There's just no way. All of my instincts, at this moment, are telling me that I've been through the worst these withdrawals could throw at me (could be completely and utterly wrong though. I won't let my hope blindside me. And, on top of that, I speak cockily now, but another cliff would still suck a giant dick. They last way too fucking long. It'll definitely fuck my shit up, regardless of it's relative ease when compared to previous ones).
I'm confused as hell at the moment. I don't know what to expect or what to think. I don't want to eat my words in a month. I don't want to get myself too juiced up. But jesus man, in 2 days I'll be at 27 months. An easier road to freedom isn't too much to ask for at this point.
In my dreams I still am processing some random stuff. For instance, last night I dreamt that I shook hands with a guy that I forget existed. It was a vivid picture of him. Haven't interacted with him since middle school(ish). Crazy.
Sadly, my dreams, for the most part, usually have a negative tint to them--signs of lingering depression and anhedonia. Nowhere near as many outright nightmares, but I'd much prefer pleasant dreams to dark ones.
My dreams are also fractured and choppy in nature. Like a faint, cut-up movie playing in the background. I think the levels of vividness coincide with my thoughts on reading fiction. They will clear up at similar rates of speed.
To sum it all up: I don't know what's next. But that's nothing new. The worst part about this shit is that you have no idea how long it will last, or how hard the remainder of it will be. Every morning I wake up and immediately begin analyzing how I'm feeling. I'm excited for the day when I no longer have to do that. I just want to be a normal fucking person who wakes up and thinks about making coffee.
kadoos
Member
hi.
I have been out for sixty days and I am depressed and I do not have the energy to do my job
How to get rid of depression after quitting?
zander13
Respected Member
You can't get rid of it, you just have to endure it as bravely as you can. You can try to do "activities" that other folks will prescribe to you (exercise, socializing, etc.), but if you're true-blue depressed then you're depressed. And the fact that you work says to me that those self-helpy solutions aren't going to "cure" you. Work entails a great many things that would help with common moroseness, and they obviously aren't touching your malaise.
I've been there. Best advice is to not get down or lose hope because you're feeling depressed. Don't fight it. Easier said than done though. I get pissed off at my depressions all the time. It has interfered with work a great many times.
Buddhist philosophies helped me the most. Therapy too. Separate yourself from your moods/thoughts. Observe yourself as objectively as possible. Therapy helps when it comes to getting things off of your chest. It can be a supremely cathartic experience, and it's just nice to not be the only one who knows how bad things are for you.
I feel for you man. It can be quite debilitating. And lonely. I hope it get's better for you sooner rather than later. Sucks how the withdrawals put life on hold.
60 days is phenomenal. Stay on the path. Time will solve the depression if you let it. Your intuition will lead you the rest of the way if you let time do its thing. You'll wake up one day and feel like cleaning your place, or calling an old friend. Things will start to feel natural and un-forced.
Good luck. Hope this helps.