Hello Gentlemen. Now we begin.

W

William

Guest
Thank you Gentlemen for the posts.

@Jkkk, you are a teacher, you already know the drill.

@Fappy, I have read your posts and predict you will become a teacher too.  Learning to love withdrawals is part of it.  You can check the link at the bottom of my counter. 

@320, it takes years to get porn addicted.  It can take much less to overcome it.  I suggest the hard 90, and then I suggest asking the questions again.  If you have done the hard 90 right, you may find you no longer need to ask the questions.  I am sure the human raced MO'ed before it discovered P.  I think you are asking the right questions because ANY question for those with the problem is a right question.  Gabe Deem says read everything.  Translation:  ask every question and...search for every answer.  Merry Christmas to you too!
 

lyon03

Respected Member
Merry Xmas all. Great thread as always William so thank you for sharing your experience/wisdom.

@320 I wanted to touch on your decision to stop the P but while still MOing. I myself decided on hard reboot (no PMO) and am now just shy of two months. I felt that masturbating so soon during my reboot was like an alcoholic switching to light beer. What I wanted to learn was impulse control, namely not using MO as an escape from stress. I agree with William that we should make such decisions after a 90-day reboot. In the heat of withdrawal, our brains link masturbation too closely to porn in my opinion.

Be well everyone. I wish you a happy and PMO-free end of 2014. 

 
 
Thanks for the post! I'm on day 17 and I've been surprised at how well I've been doing. I'm sure the withdrawals will set in before long but I'll get it right this time. I'll get through this.
 

jkkk

Well-Known Member
William,

It's been a great year. And it's been a great thing to come across you here at this forum and be able to exchange thoughts with you about the addiction, its nature and how to move forward.

And I have got this question to you, on the turn of the years: I know how important it is to get through the 90 days. I think it's crucial. But how does one stay in the reboot? How to build on those 90 days and stay in that forever? What techniques do you employ? How you remind yourself of your conviction, of the new path? I mean even practical things: do you pray every morning and before bed and think about that?

Wish you a great and happy 2015! I wish that to everyone here, the starting, the struggling, the winning. And, not least to myself :)

J.
 
W

William

Guest
Hi J.  Quitting porn was one of the most difficult things I have ever done.  Admitting to myself I was a porn addict was one of the most difficult personal revelations I ever had.  Before I found Gary Wilson and YBOP I never admitted the possibility of "addiction".  I just knew I had a habit that I hated, and yet, I had a habit I wanted to engage in all the time. 

I read your question a bit differently than you pose it, I read your question as:  After you get clean, how do you stay clean?  Well, in the beginning, staying clean, like getting clean, is a daily exercise.  It is consciously done.  Of course, the daily exercise is avoid P, hypersexual thoughts, and artificial sexual stimulation, all of which translates to:  don't give yourself a dopamine high.  In the "quitting" stage I thought of practically nothing else but quitting.  I suppose I replaced thoughts of P with thoughts of quitting, of no P.  I think the worm turned for me around day 90, which is why I am a huge fan of the hard 90, though to be honest, it may have taken a bit more, but one morning I woke up and did not think of it at all. 

Now, I am rebooted and rewired, totally.  By that I mean that I probably could PMO, but only with difficulty, I would not enjoy it, and P no longer triggers me.  It is not the reward pathway my brain is conditioned to anymore. I don't miss it, I don't long for it, it really never occurs to me.  I suppose what I am saying is that there is a place in your future where you will not need to pray about it because it will be so far away from who you are that it is completely, 100%, not who you are anymore.  You won't struggle with it; it just won't be who you are anymore. 

I wish you a fantastic 2015.  Keep teaching.  This place has plenty of students, it needs teachers like you.

Peace. 

Will I AM.
 

jkkk

Well-Known Member
Hey William,

Thanks a lot for your reply. There is also one question nagging me - at what stage of life have you become addicted and how that affected your relationship with women?

I'm asking because there are different sort of people here. As for myself, I was one of these guys who wasn't particularly good with girls, although with hindsight I believe that what screwed that part of my life was the addiction that become hitting me as when I was as young as 13 years old. This totally screwed my sexual and relationship's life and I stayed away from women apart from honing some kind of idealistic love. A strange mix, but deadly in action.

J.
 

AoMSentMe

Member
Thanks William for the great information and links to the videos. I'm finding out very quickly the importance of education in fighting this.
 

lyon03

Respected Member
Thanks William. I'm on day 72 and feel like I've turned a corner. Rather than constantly fighting addiction, I feel like I've just become a better person. As always, your post was very helpful. I look forward to more weeks, years, and eventually a lifetime porn free. Be well everyone.
 

Madnote

Member
Hey William, thanks to you and all who post here. It's nice to know I'm not alone, suffering from PIED.

One thought that came to mind after looking around and doing research is: do discussions ever come up regarding health and nutritional concerns? For example, BPA actually turns into Estrogen in the body and men exposed to high levels of it are at risk of low T levels. Also, Soy reduces male testosterone.

I was just interested if things like that we're ever discussed. I believe that these things may begin to harm men at puberty wich can result in well...basically, social awkwardness, underdevelopment, and delayed maturity. This type of thing can drive teenage boys to find solace in porn when actual relationships fail or aren't happening.

Just a thought. I'd love to see what others think.
 
U

Username

Guest
Madnote said:
Also, Soy reduces male testosterone.

Interesting point, Madnote. Personally, all I can contribute to that discussion is that my intake of soy products has been huge over the past few years and my testosterone levels have not been affected significantly. Still, my ED problems lingered on and could only be cured, gradually, by reducing my exposure to porn.
Any other opinions/experiences on that?
 

Madnote

Member
Username said:
Madnote said:
Also, Soy reduces male testosterone.

Interesting point, Madnote. Personally, all I can contribute to that discussion is that my intake of soy products has been huge over the past few years and my testosterone levels have not been affected significantly. Still, my ED problems lingered on and could only be cured, gradually, by reducing my exposure to porn.
Any other opinions/experiences on that?

Well, I'll clarify by stating it was probably GMO Soy, I heard that about. I try to avoid fast food burgers and such which are full of GMO soy. Studies have shown that mice become sterile by the third and fourth generation, after only eating GM Corn. Of course, individual bodes respond differently to everything. Really, I was trying to raise the broader issue of external factors playing a role that can lead to abuse and addiction to porn. I'm sure there are guys that make it into adulthood who never viewd much porn that, either from emotional trauma or possibly health factors, drove them to comfort in porn and an escalation of their habit. I'm new around here and thought I'd get some  thoughts along those lines.

And also, once we have made the decision to go clean...are there any foods, meditation techniques or other ways to recover normal libido and overall clarity?
 
U

Username

Guest
Yes, GMO is probably a different case. Since I don't live in the US, I'm not familiar with consuming those kind of produces.
Anyway, as for means that might speed up your recovery: I recommend you read up on some recovery stories (on both this forum and YBOP), some guys cherish a more plant-based diet or certain breathing exercises. There's quite a range to choose from.
 

Madnote

Member
Username said:
Since I don't live in the US, I'm not familiar with consuming those kind of produces..

Yeah, that must be nice. The fascists here would allow the people to eat horse-shit if the company paid the politicians enough money. But, that's another point entirely.
As for the techniques and such, I'll certainly look into it!!! Thanks man.
 

Fapplemage

New Member
hello william,
first of all i have to apologize to you for answering so late. considering that you replied to me within a day. i must admit when i read your answer i got pretty upset and just went away. it took me a while to realize that my 70 something days were not completely down the drain, and that, in the big scheme of things, 70 days aren't gonna mean much in a year. your post has changed my outlook on a few things and i have ever since then been trying to change my behavior even further. as for ocd, i do have serious issues with it, beyond the "knack that most of us" might have in one way or another. so i have to let those thoughts happen, but your post made me realize that i still made the conscious choice to indulge in them, which i now try to not do anymore. i am now at 90 days and it feels nice to achieve what everyone tries to do, but i feel that this was just a tiny first step and that there is a long way still ahead of me. i would also like to say that seeing you write these things is inspiring to me on another level. i have been a kind person before and tried to help people and bring them happiness, but this has been abused mercilessly and i have been hurt a great deal in the process. seeing other people live this ideal with so much compassion makes me want to open up again, and makes me want to try to do good in the world. so i thank you for that as well. i wish you a happy new year and all the best for 2015.
 
W

William

Guest
Hello Gentlemen, thank everyone for the kind words.  As you know I am consciously posting less and less.  Now that I have taken the cure for porn addiction I am attempting to cure the cure, by that meaning thinking less and less about the topic.  In the beginning I hit the forums multiple times a day, and some days posted as many as 20 posts.  I suppose, in a way, I replaced porn with posting and it helped keep me clean, but not so much now.  This is a good thing for me, and for all of us, as we can look forward to a time in our lives where not only are we not fighting the addiction, it simply does not occur to us, and even thinking about it becomes a distraction. 

jkkk, porn totally fucks up our relationship with women on so many levels, you already know.  Of course, at the time I became addicted I did not know that porn addiction, aka dopamine addiction, was possible.  Like most of us, I saw porn as an amusing little roller coaster ride, it distracted me from life.  What I did not know was that it became a substitute for life.  I did not know the anxiety I thought porn helped me deal with was a withdrawal symptom that I only had because of porn.  Porn gave me false expectations and desires of women and totally warped what I thought was "sexy."  Porn objectifies women, meaning puts most of them in a class in our heads as just sexual beings when of course they are beautiful full persons in their own right; porn makes us see women as smaller than they are, when in fact they are great, and many of them much better people than we are.  Any one reading this, don't let porn deny you the great opportunity of getting to know women in the full sense; there is so much more about that half of the species than sex. 

@AoMSentme, education is key.  It is one thing to go through withdrawals in ignorance, having no idea why this hellish feeling is tormenting you and wondering if it could last for ever, it is another to know it is your dopamine levels falling and if you can just keep going for the hard 90, it will stop or radically diminish.  Understanding we are dopamine addicts is not the best news anyone is getting, but at least if we get that news, we know there are ways to get clean and free of it.

@ Poker--Peter Gabriel or Arcade Fire?

@lyon--75 days brother, you are so close to free you can probably taste it.  Stay strong, do not lose focus, do not pat yourself on the back or tell yourself you can handle it now.  You will have plenty of opportunity to see how strong you are on the other side of 90, don't fail now and keep going strong.  You are proving to any one reading this that it can be done because you are doing it. 

@ Madnote and username--I will give you some very simple advice:  don't over think it, don't ask the big questions, don't ask the small questions, don't even ask questions; after you get past the hard 90 if you want to become a psychologist, more power to you, but during the hard 90 allow yourself no distractions.  Asking about the underlying root cause of porn addiction is a distraction from the underlying root cause of porn addiction which is 100% one thing:  porn leads to hypersexual thoughts, hypersexual thoughts lead to a dopamine high, a repeated dopamine high multiple times a day, for years, leads to the addiction.  I am not saying that you can never ask the big questions, but don't let them distract during the hard 90.  Once you get clean of the addiction, well, ask them then.  You see, the addiction is tricky.  It will try and talk you out of quitting by getting you to start asking questions like what really is the problem.  Implied in the question is that porn is not the problem, but in reality, it is, it is the problem.  Don't worry about testosterone, don't worry about blue balls, blue balls are a myth.  You are 5 days in, and it just about now for you that the withdrawals will start tapping you on the shoulder and shouting in your ear that just a little bit won't hurt.  Well, it won't hurt, it would just impede your quest to be free.  Focus and stay concentrated on what we are doing and what we are not and know that on the other side of the hard 90 you will own you again, maybe for the first time in a decade, you will own you, porn won't any more, but you are not free, you are going to have to pay the price of years of abusing your reward system, and that is withdrawals.  Just be aware, and don't let anything distract you.

@Fapplemage--PMOing and the addiction are probably the most selfish self absorbed activities we can engage in, they are the opposite of social, and therefore are antisocial.  We don't need to interact with others in the midst of the addiction because we can get to our drug of choice in a dark room with the door locked and a computer in front of us.  When quitting porn it helps to re-engage, consciously, with others, to single someone out and do something nice for them.  Walk their dog, help them with groceries, be needlessly polite.  How do we help ourselves?  We help ourselves by helping others.  By getting clean I pretty much guarantee you are helping others.

Keep posting.  Remember, porn is not an option.

Will I AM. 
 

lyon03

Respected Member
Thanks Will. I too had the obsessive need to post, although that seems to be diminishing. I gave up a porn addiction for a recovery addiction. Just a few days ago, I felt an overwhelming need to re-connect with real (rather than virtual) life. You've helped a lot of people with your thread, including me, so thank you.
 

tostadora

Active Member
jkkk said:
I think I got seriously deconcentrated with many personal issues instead of working on the reboot. I also noticed the tendency to "discover" personal issues that aren't really there, when one is not sincere in the reboot effort.

I feel the same way right now, that I have been working on my social skills, on anxiety, on my relationship with my parents for years, just to get myself out of the pain of the withdrawals and to keep porn near me.

But now I feel that I want porn out of my life forever. I don't want that anymore. What I've outside porn is much more important and I'm not willing to let porn ruin it.
 
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