Hello Gentlemen. Now we begin.

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William

Guest
Hi bob, thanks for the kind words.  I figured out a long time ago that if you are addicted to porn, and you are quitting the addiction, you better develop some gallows humor for that long and painful ride to clean.

This is Robert Weiss writing.  Hope you find it helpful. 

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-weiss/all-about-porninduced-ere_b_9220706.html

Will I AM
 
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William

Guest
whttps://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ryan+adams+come+pick+me+up


Because we are more alive than dead.  Get to this side of life. 


Come alive.

Will. 







 
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William

Guest
HSIP, High Speed Internet Porn, became prevalent in westernized societies say, around, 2011.  We liked porn before 2011, and, since, at least 1960, porn was available in the mass media.  But, it was not until HSIP, that porn became so efficient at delivering a dopamine hit, that it became addictive.  I know some people say they were addicted to porn prior to HSIP, but, there is a difference between really, really liking porn, and being addicted to it.  For instance, there are no reported instances of PIED (Porn Induced Erectile Dysfunction) prior to the widespread existence of HSIP.  If we consider PIED a symptom porn addiction, and we understand PIED did not exist prior to HSIP, we understand that HSIP created a fundamental change in the perceived reality of those who have access to it.  Not everyone who has access to HSIP becomes addicted, but the addiction, and the symptoms of it, were not in existence prior to the invention of HSIP.

Conclusion:  We invented this addiction ourselves. Congratulations humanity for yet another terribly bad, yet brilliant, idea.

If you are a porn addict, you can rid yourself of any moral judgment regarding the addiction.  You can rid yourself of any mommy-daddy issues.  And let me be clear:  You should rid yourself of those side issues, and ridding yourself of those side issues makes getting clean much, much easier. They are distractions.  You will still have those issues when you get clean, but if you are trying to get clean by cleaning up the side issues, you are trying to swim with weights tied to your legs.  It won't work, they will drag you down, and you will sink.  Get clean from porn addiction first, then deal with your other issues.  You will find that tackling them, later, when clean, is a lot easier than trying to get clean from porn while struggling with whatever traumatic event happened to you when you were a kid.  And yes, everyone here was once a kid who had a traumatic event that happened to them.    You are not alone.

If you are a porn addict, it is because you have trained yourself--unconsciously--to to push the porn button to get a dopamine high.  You may have underlying issues, you may be totally fucked up, but you are not a porn addict, despite how fucked up you might be, because of any underlying issues.  You are a porn addict because porn gives you a dopamine high.  If porn did not give you that dopamine high, you would not watch it; it would be boring to you.  No matter how fucked up you are, no matter what your underlying issues, you only watch porn for the dopamine high it gives you.  Without that you would not watch it, no matter how fucked up you are.

We, the species, mammals, have been able to, naturally, obtain a dopamine high for about 138 million years.  But, the invention of HSIP, changed things.  It is an artificial sexual stimulation that is far more efficient than anything in nature to obtain the dopamine high all of us, addicted or not, like.  I think, maybe, those addicted to it like it a bit more than others, but all of us are wired to like it.  It is nature's way of encouraging us to have sex, reproduce, make babies.

HSIP is new, relatively, in our collective experience.  And, it is here to stay.  That genie is not going back in the box, so, we are going to have to learn to live with it.  It is here to stay, meaning the potential for porn addiction, aka porn induced dopamine addiction, is something that humanity will have to deal with, forever. It's OK.  I am sure we will invent other even more debilitating addictions.  We are clever monkeys.

So, the question for any one reading this is:  Do I want to stay addicted? It's a pretty black and white question, with a pretty black and white answer.  The honest answer for a porn addict is: Yes, I absolutely want to stay addicted forever.

Just being honest.  So, to quit the addiction, you are going to have to do something you do not want to do, which is becoming unaddicted.  Unaddicted. New word.  Just made it up.  In a few years, it will make it into the dictionaries.  It will make it into the dictionaries when large segments of the population 1) become addicted, then 2) start striving to become unaddicted.  This is already happening.  If you have become addicted to porn, it is important to understand the history of the addiction.  It is also helpful to understand the history of the cure, of becoming unaddicted.

You put real effort into becoming addicted.  It took time, and patience.  You worked on it every day, every single day.  You practiced it like you practiced anything you ever wanted to be good at.  Through that daily practice, you became an expert, an expert at being addicted.  It won't take less effort to get clean.  As much as you love the addiction, you are going to hate getting clean. But, you can get clean.  And then, over time, you won't miss it.

Porn addiction is a lifestyle.  If you want to get out of that lifestyle, you have to change your lifestyle.  I recommend the hard 90 to begin.  90 days, no porn, no porn substitutes, no sex, no MO, no O, no M, no edging, and deliberately, consciously, eliminating or lessening sexual thoughts.  It is not called the easy 90.  What you are doing in that time is a course correction for your brain. You are consciously altering brain stimulation and response.  Stimulation being sexual thoughts, response being a dopamine high.  It is the dopamine high you are giving up, which totally sucks, because we like that high, but you will not become unaddicted unless you give it up.  You will get it again later, in reduced quantities, via reality, but giving up the prolonged, profound dopamine highs you have gotten via porn, has to go, in order to become unaddicted.

If you are reading this, I know you can do it.  I, and many others, have.  You can do it.

Much love.

Will.
 

achilles heel

Well-Known Member
William said:
HSIP, High Speed Internet Porn, became prevalent in westernized societies say, around, 2011.  We liked porn before 2011, and, since, at least 1960, porn was available in the mass media.  But, it was not until HSIP, that porn became so efficient at delivering a dopamine hit, that it became addictive.  I know some people say they were addicted to porn prior to HSIP, but, there is a difference between really, really liking porn, and being addicted to it.  For instance, there are no reported instances of PIED (Porn Induced Erectile Dysfunction) prior to the widespread existence of HSIP.  If we consider PIED a symptom porn addiction, and we understand PIED did not exist prior to HSIP, we understand that HSIP created a fundamental change in the perceived reality of those who have access to it.  Not everyone who has access to HSIP becomes addicted, but the addiction, and the symptoms of it, were not in existence prior to the invention of HSIP.

Conclusion:  We invented this addiction ourselves. Congratulations humanity for yet another terribly bad, yet brilliant, idea.

Before 2011 I used to safe an insane amount (I mean thousands!) of pictures and videos (mostly pictures because of the time it took to download videos) and opened them in randomized galleries to have as much novelty as possible. I binged for hours and I couldn't stop despite feeling like shit afterwards. From 2005 onwards I suffered from delayed ejaculation and often needed to fantasize to come. Maybe Tube sites converted this into something epidemic because the dopamine button was easier to access, but would you really say I just liked porn a lot and wasn't addicted back then?
 
W

William

Guest
Hi guys, thanks for the very kind words. 

akpal2, thank you, that is exactly why I post.

achilles heel, understanding the evolution of the addiction is helpful.  So, porn has existed since the beginning.  Since us monkeys would paint on a cave wall, we have been creating artificial sexual stimulation representations.  That has been around forever, since, from the beginning, we have obtained a dopamine high from sexual thoughts.  That high in response to those thoughts are why we are a successful species:  Because of it we have a lot of sex, breed our replacements, and make more and more of us.

Around 2011, however, we invented, or came into possession of, a new technology, that allowed us to get that dopamine high much more efficiently an effectively than we could via non artificial means: High Speed Internet Porn. 

As with all addictions, Achilles, being addicted often has to do with "availability" of the addictive thing.  We, all of us, every human on the planet, likes a dopamine high, even if, while we are getting it, we don't want it and we don't like it.  If we get it, our brain interprets that as pleasure, whether we want that pleasure or not.  HSIP made that feeling incredibly more available than previously possible (except with drugs).  Were you addicted prior to HSIP?  My opinion:  No.  But you were only not addicted because, prior to exposure to HSIP, the addiction was not available to you.  We still liked porn, prior to HSIP, but being addicted was not available to us.  Remember, we are arousal addicts, not drug addicts, so we need new, never-before-experienced-sexual thoughts to feed the addiction.  With HSIP we created the ability to never have the same sexual thought twice in a row.  It is that moment, when we created that possibility, that porn addiction became possible, or, as I have said, "available."  Without HSIP, while we loved sexual thoughts, we were a lot more limited in the sexual thoughts we could have.  Now, HSIP makes those thoughts, essentially, infinitely possible.  This means (unless we are consciously choosing to become unaddicted) we never desensitize to HSIP, we never become bored with it, we never become bored with searching for new sexual thoughts, because we never have to.  We can see something new every single day, and thus can obtain a dopamine high, essentially, daily, forever.  This addiction is possible because new technology made it possible.  It is now here to stay.  OK.  Let's deal with it. 

So, just for fun, I am posting clear for February, 2018, on yourbrainrebalaced.  Posted this tonight.  Thought you might like it.

Day 10, clear. Getting clean is a chore. It is work. It takes getting up in the morning, and the first thought must be "not today." Especially in the beginning, you will have to have that thought a few hundred times a day. Eventually, it gets less difficult, and somewhere out there, you wake up, and you don't have the thought, because you have, via brain plasticity, rewired, rebalanced, your brain to live without the instant dopamine hit porn allows us to access.

Gabe Deem, of Reboot Nation, has given excellent advice for addicts who desire to become unaddicted: Read everything. If you are quitting porn addiction in ignorance of the brain mechanics behind it, you are stepping into a boxing ring with your hands tied behind your back wearing a blindfold. In case you are wondering, that means you are going to get your ass kicked. Not maybe: your ass will be kicked. But, once you start studying the problem, once you get educated, you will still get your ass kicked when quitting...but at least you will be able to throw a few punches yourself. Sorry, no easy way out. Anyone telling you they have an easy way out is lying to you. It just does not happen that way. That said, you CAN get clean. This is truth. So, study the problem. We are arousal addicts. That is a bit different than drug addicts. Drug addicts, over time, need "more." We, over time, need new and different, to get the same high.

Read, study, learn. Getting clean is exercise and homework.

One day you will wake up, and clean will be your new normal. I promise.

WILL.

https://www.helpguide.org/harvard/how-addiction-hijacks-the-brain.htm

Back tomorrow to post 11 days clear in February. The first day is the longest day. Never too late to make today day 1.
 

akpal2

Well-Known Member
Hi William, or anybody else who cares to answer. Is there any detailed posts or material on edging out there? I feel like I indulge in it from time to time and it has been quite detrimental
 
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William

Guest
Noah Church would tell you edging is BAD, because it is a way of extending your dopamine rush.  The only reason we watch porn, or MO, or edge, is to obtain a dopamine high.  A dopamine high is not the devil, but, it can become addictive.  So, if you have become addicted to porn, or, more specifically, using porn to obtain a dopamine high, then edging is a NO NO.  Just understand what you are doing when you doing it.  Becoming self aware is a big part of becoming unaddicted. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t5aG9XEQgs

It's not rocket science.  And no, I do not write for SouthPark.  They wish. 

W. 
 

akpal2

Well-Known Member
Thank you William, you're right. J have been using porn to get dopamine highs and edging really is a way to extend it. I guess it goes back to the old dictum, if it's artificial stimuli that I am using to get that dopamine high, then it's BAD.
 
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William

Guest
So, the first part of the cure totally, totally, fucking sucks. The first part of the cure are three words I hated saying to myself: I am addicted. That day sucks, because I had spent a big part of my life consciously avoiding any addictive substance, or, at least abusing any addictive substance to the point of possibly becoming addicted. Let's put it this way: Addiction scared me. I was afraid of becoming addicted since I was a young kid. I took pretty seriously the "don't do drugs" lectures by the recovering addicts they brought in, in elementary school, to scare us straight. I was one of those scared straight guys. But no one mentioned porn, because porn is about sex, and we don't talk about sex to our kids in this society. Some genius (sarcasm) came up with the thought that if we don't tell our kids anything about sex, they won't have it, or if they have it, they will only have it once for every kid they intend to produce. So, here is the truth; I hope you are sitting down. Human brains evolved so, right around they time the hit puberty, maybe a bit before, right around the time their bodies start to became really, really good at making babies, they start to think of sex, and like thinking of sex. As in, a lot. Sure, some may hate themselves for loving to think about sex, but the human brain is wired to think about it, and like thinking about it, beginning around puberty. This is true in all mammals, and humans are just mammals. This is nature's way of encouraging sex, sex being nature's way of encouraging baby making, baby making being nature's way of promulgating the species, whatever mammal you are. That "I like sex, I like thinking of sex" feeling we have is a dopamine rush. A dopamine rush is the good feeling we get from"liking the thought of sex." It has been around for millions of years, and it works, because when we think about sex, we often have the real deal, and when that happens babies are made, and the population grows. But, being clever monkeys, around 2006-2011 we invented High Speed Internet, and in a matter of moments someone added porn to the mix, thus: HSIP, high speed internet porn. For some of us, HSIP makes think a lot about sex, and those thoughts transmit to a dopamine high, and we love that dopamine high. HSIP is the most efficient means of making ourselves think of sex, thus the most efficient means for us of getting a dopamine high, from thinking about sex. It is the dopamine high that is addictive. So, when you take your first step in getting clean, which is "I am addicted", it is useful to understand what you are addicted to. It looks like porn, it sounds like porn, in the future it will feel, smell, and taste like porn, but it really is not. Porn is just a button we push to get to what we really love; a dopamine high.

There are people who deny the addiction exists. As the article below correctly states, history will not judge them well. They will be like the doctors who appeared in cigarette ads in the 50's, advertising the health benefits of a cancer delivery vehicle.

https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/entert...ting-real-about-porn-and-its-damaging-effects

Take time to study the problem. This addiction we call porn addiction can seem overwhelming at first, impossible to stop, impossible to cure. However, if you study it, it becomes a much smaller problem, a small brain problem of cause (watch porn) and effect (dopamine rush). It is still difficult as fuck to quit, but a smaller problem is easier to fix than a problem you may perceive now as huge. It is a difficult problem, but it is not huge. I suggest when quitting porn addiction, focus only on quitting porn addiction, and leave your side issues out of the quitting process. You will find, once you quit porn addiction, that your other problems are still with you, but fixing those without the monkey of porn addiction on your back will become much more doable.

Hope this helps.

Much love.

Will I AM.
 

KW1989KW

Active Member
William,

Wow, wow, wow, wow!!! I have learned a plethora of information from your journal. The amount of time and effort you put into every one of these posts is absolutely amazing. Not only are you teaching us how to fight this, but you have read and understood others perspectives/ journals. I even recall you word for word explaining who Promise was. I was both shocked and impressed at how much time you took out of your life to understand him and help him. It's amazing.

I have recently been reading through your posts and found the answer I was looking for. I contemplated going back to MO'ing every now and then and since I have not been able to become active with a lady yet, figured it would be okay. But after reading the entries I now feel I need to refrain from it. I want to be completely in control of my emotions and feelings. I so want that passion with a woman that I once was able to have. It both excites me and terrifies me because it has been so long.

Any recommendations for calming your nerves down when an intimate situation may arise? I get so anxious that I often talk myself out of becoming intimate. :/

Your help has been much appreciated by reading your posts.

My very best,

ImOnMyWay
 
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William

Guest
Thank you ImOnMyWay for your kind words.

We are very early in our understanding of the human brain.  We call it "porn addiction", but that is inaccurate.  Porn is one button we push to feel....a dopamine rush, but a dopamine rush feels....really good.  We like that.  It is similar to the reaction we have when we sit down to our favorite meal, whatever your favorite meal is.  We get that dopamine rush not just from eating it, but from anticipating eating it, and looking forward to eating it.  An addict's brain lights up with a dopamine rush just by thinking about using.  It does not wait to light up until the substance hits the brain, just anticipating using lights up an addict's brain. 

In the future we will distinguish between the trigger that triggers the response, and the response that is addictive. It is important to understand that, while the trigger looks addictive, it is the response to the trigger that is, actually, addictive.  While there are external super stimuli all around us, it is the response to the stimulation that is addictive.

For me, and every other person who thinks of themselves as a porn addict, porn was just the trigger; the dopamine response was what was addictive.  This is a subtle, but incredibly important distinction that anyone here, struggling to quit, must accept, and understand.

The human brain has existed, in its current form, for millions of years.  It did not change with the invention of High Speed Internet Porn.  It is just that prior to the invention of HSIP, an addiction to HSIP was not possible.  Porn addiction, the science behind it, and the science of recovery and/or becoming unaddicted is, in evolutionary terms, about a nanosecond old.  One could say it was just invented. One could figuratively say we have just invented the wheel, but, we are still centuries away from inventing the Model T.  If anyone tells you they are an expert in porn addiction, just remember, they are an expert in porn addiction the way Hippocrates was an expert in medicine and surgery, 2,400 years ago.  For his time, probably; now they would not let him near a hospital.  The study of the human brain, and neuroscience, has, in evolutionary terms, just been invented. Neuroscience is so new that even here, on this site, if you type it, the word is flagged as a misspelling. 

All the addictions we suffer from were always, potentially, addictive, but until invented did not exist.  The reason we did not become addicted, to various things, before, is because the vehicle, the trigger, for the addiction was not available to us.  To be Mr. Obvious, addiction to High Speed Internet Porn was not available to us prior to the creation of HSIP.  The addiction to cocaine was not available to us before the invention of cocaine.  The addiction to heroin was not available to us before the invention of heroin.  The addiction to alcohol was not available before the invention of alcohol.  I could go on, but you get the idea.

When considering addictions, we, probably, ought to concede that addictions do not occur naturally.  We invent them.  Humans are really good at inventing their own addictions.  Other creatures have a "natural instinct" to do things, and those things are good for themselves or for their species.  So, take ants and bees.  They are driven to certain behaviors that are good for the hive, for the species.  I don't know if bees and ants actually "get up in the morning", but let's say they do. When they get up in the morning their first instinct is to do a thing, and often that thing is to gather something for the hive.  "Gathering something for the hive" is rewarded with something similar to a dopamine rush. Nature has wired their brains to receive a reward for doing something that nature has figured out is good for the species.  I don't choose the example of bees and ants randomly, because those species are, largely asexual.  Most ants and most bees never reproduce, so, in those worker bees and those worker ants, there is not dopamine reward for sex, or thinking of it, or anticipating it. However, in the queens and the drones, there probably is, and if not thinking of sex, thinking of whatever events, in those species, causes reproduction. 

Recently, we have developed, invented, technology that has allowed us to exploit it our dopamine reward system.  We are clever monkeys, and we have figured out how to push certain buttons in our brains to get results we like, which we interpret as pleasure, as feeling good. Porn is one button, but it is not the only button.

Here is an article on "smart phone" addiction. 

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/02/12/584389201/smartphone-detox-how-to-power-down-in-a-wired-world

I am not addicted to my smart phone, and have no understanding how anyone could be.  In that sense I am like a person who is not addicted to porn, and has no understanding of how anyone could be.  But the mechanics of the addictions, both of which are arousal addictions, are quite similar.

Like every addiction we have ever invented, we are now learning to fight it.  But, as opposed to say alcohol, we are studying the brain much, much more than before with technology induced arousal addictions, and that type of study is in its infancy, it is brand new. What we think we know today, will look simplistic a century from now.  In a sense our understanding of technology induced arousal addictions are like open heart surgeries a century ago.  Shout out to Daniel Hale Williams.  Google it.  We are the first generation to be exposed to this particular addiction, because we only just invented it.  Later generations will build on what we have figured out, but what we have figured out will not be the bible of HSIP addiction, or its cure, but just a beginning of the understanding of both.  Congratulations!  You are a member of the first generation of porn addicts, which means you can be a member of the first generation who contributed to a cure.  I know, I know, prevention beats the cure every time, but, let's face it, the genie is out of the bottle on this one. 

OK, back to basics.  If you are a newbie porn addict, you are not a newbie porn addict.  You are porn induced dopamine addict.  Welcome to humanity, because nothing more than being addicted proves you are human.  You have pushed the porn button, a trigger, to get to what you really like, and what you are addicted to is a dopamine rush.  Every human on the planet loves a dopamine rush.  If they say they don't, they are lying.  So, to overcome the addiction, you are going to have to quit pushing that button, or any of the many other buttons you can push, to get your dopamine high.  This is not a lifetime condition, because life would not be worth living without a dopamine hit, from time to time, via reality.  But you need to plan on, at least 90 days, the hard 90, and some say it takes them most of a year before they were through the withdrawals, the missing it, the wanting it, the craving it, the obsessing about it.  In that time frame that means no porn, no porn substitutes, no MO, no PMO, no O, no sex, no porn memory, no porn fantasy, sexual fantasy--it means avoiding, as much as possible, everything that gives you what you really want and what you will really, really miss: a dopamine high.  You have to retrain your brain, re-mold it, to learn to live without that high, which you have given yourself daily, for years. 

First thing, Get Educated.  Study the problem. Read everything. Understand as much as possible the brain science and brain mechanics of why you are addicted.  This problem is 100% a brain problem, above the belt, and has absolutely nothing to do with sex, your sexuality, your sexual preferences, or your sexual orientation.  It is all about what happens in the brain, so, study the brain.

Second, Get Tools. This is an extension of the first thing, but what it means is put things between you and your trigger.  Porn blockers, distraction techniques. Understand, quitting the addiction is an exercise, a chore, it must be practiced daily, just the same way you used the addiction, daily.  Man or woman, in the quitting phase, you must define yourself as a person quitting porn, quitting the addiction.  Quitting must become your vocation, your religion, your purpose. It does not have to be that way forever, but in the reboot, it must be this way.  It cannot be a joke, it must be what you are devoted to doing. Also, get outside of yourself and reengage with people.  Get social, which sucks for you because porn requires no bargaining, but people do.  This is a skill, being with people, that you have to acquire or re-aquire when quitting porn.  A big part of disengaging with porn is re-engaging with life.  The successful quitters do not quit passively, they get out in the world and quit aggressively.  Get aggressive.  Go find someone to help.  Get out of your shell.  How do we help ourselves?  We help ourselves by helping others.  In the reboot, it is important to help yourself. 

Third, you are going to have to deal with withdrawals.  When I quit, I felt like I was dying every day.  I told myself that if feeling like I was dying every day, for the rest of my life, was what it took to get free, then I would feel like I was dying everyday for the rest of my life.  I hope it is not that bad for you, but I promise you, if you are addicted, and you are serious about getting clean, you will have days when you feel like you are dying.  Eventually, it goes away and you don't feel bad, and you start to feel good again.  Promise. Someone I knew said you have to learn to love withdrawals. Others call it getting comfortable with discomfort.  Quitting hurts A LOT.  Don't run from the pain or try to avoid it.  When you feel ten kinds of horrible, and you will, know that is your brain rewiring.  That is your brain complaining you have not given it the dopamine hit it wants, the dopamine hit you have given it, daily, for years.  Feeling that is good, because it is a sign of your recovery; it means you are not feeding your dopamine monster.  You won't feel horrible forever, most say 3-4 months, off and on, with it getting a lot better closer to the end. And then, one day, you will wake up, and the thought of accessing porn and pulling that trigger just will not occur to you. 

OK.  Go!

Will I AM.
 

Jz15

Member
William thank you very much for all the gold information you've provided to us....

Today I registered because after the relapses after my 40 days streak i fail to quit since June so I decided to take this as seriously as possible.

very honest, no bullshit straight forward advice from you as always i've been reading times and times again your posts and the main reason i joined the forum

looking forward for my 90+++++ days clean to finally be free from this thing.

thank you for everything William!!!!!!!!
 

Free-man2018

Active Member
I agree with Jz15.

I appreciate all your posts from the begining. I read the first 8 pages the first days here before joining. I have to say that your thread is a must have to read everyday. I'm 24 days clean and everyday come here to learn something. Thanks William for your help.
 
W

William

Guest
Thanks for all the kind words. 

Cage, in a hundred years, after all of us have long been forgotten, these concepts will be taught in kindergarten.  It won't be called "porn addiction" then, but will be called some form of internet addiction, or how the internet can be abused, by accessing certain things, that result in a brain response that can be addictive.  In a hundred years those who want us to become addicted to whatever it is that is addictive will have become one hundred times better at producing whatever that is.  I think when we invented HSIP we did not know we were inventing an addiction.  Now, years later, the pornographers know it is addictive, and they like it, and are studying ways to make it more addictive.  Irony: porn producers are on the cutting edge of the neuroscience of addiction.  They are studying the brain science of why porn results in a dopamine high, how that can become addictive, and how they can use that reaction to sell....whatever they want to sell. 

I am not cynical about this, this is just reality.  Sort of like the Russians playing internet games to see if they can manipulate, even slightly, public perception of reality, what is good in reality, what is bad in reality, what we like, what we dislike.  Of course the Russians are going to try that.  They did not invent using the internet to create or alter mass perception of what is desirable and undesirable in the world. They did not invent ways to manipulate brain chemistry to motivate an individual, or the masses, to move in a certain direction. This is as old as we are as a species, it is just that, right now, at this point in our history, we have invented a new way to light up those motivational brain pathways. I am not bitter about that, but, rather, OK, now that we know what it is, now that we see it, we have to deal with it.  The first step is seeing it.  Now we see it.  So, let's deal with it.  Dealing with it is what we do, as a species, so let's deal with it.  Understanding what it is, is a big step in dealing with it.  Get Educated.  Take off those chains.

Everyone here is going to be free.  We are taking names, kicking ass, and leaving no one behind.  Time to get real boys, tick tock, wake up. 

Much love.

W.
 

alamar365

Member
William: I know some take the position that porn without high-speed internet is not addictive, but I turned 60 recently and I have been addicted to porn since the first time I saw it about 50 years ago. The PMO addiction came a few years later and, although I reveled in it, I remember even as a teen saying "I'm going to stop when I turn 18, then 21, then 25, when I get married, when I have a kid, when I get divorced, when I get remarried..." You get the idea. I have literally been trying to stop this for decades. I stopped drinking over 20 years ago which I think led me to rely more on my other "friend" to avoid whatever was causing me stress or unhappiness. I discovered SA almost 20 years ago and thought I had finally found the "silver bullet" or the key that was going finally release the lock on my shackles. I got 30 days here and there but always wound up back in the pit. When I discovered "Out of the Shadows" and the other books by Patrick Carnes that I hid in my house where I used to hide porn, again I thought "this is it, this is what I've been waiting for." And again I was able to stay away for awhile but always fell back into it. Extremely distressing. Then when I heard the Gary Wilson Ted talk and found YBOP it felt like the clouds had cleared and finally it was a new day. And it was. For awhile. I first came across this thread a couple of years ago and ate it up. I got to about 100 days no porn and 59 no PMO but relapsed and haven't been able to get past 30 days since then, about two and a half years ago. I've tried the Nofap Academy and Fortify programs but without lasting success. I am the quintessential "serial relapser" you identify early on in this thread. I can't tell you how much I don't want to be that person anymore. The last time I PMO'd was 16 days ago. If an intruder were to break into my house and somehow destroy my relationship with my wife, make me a distracted father, take away my self-confidence, completely demotivate me to work, exercise, and generally make my life a shitty mess, I'd kill the son-of-a-bitch. That's what my PMO/dopamine addiction is, an intruder in my life, a virus in my software that destroys every program that I want in my life. I want it to be over. All I've really known is life as a PMO/dopamine addict. I'd love to see what life is like without it. Today is Easter. Resurrection Day. A day of new life and new beginnings. May it be so with me. I thank you for your spot on insights and your continued willingness to devote some of your time sharing your thoughts and experience. I am sure it is a great help to many, many people. Thank you and God bless.
 
W

William

Guest
alamar, thanks for the kind words.

One of the most difficult things an addict has to do is own themselves and mean it.  Though this is a challenging concept for an addict, ultimately, the addict chooses, and must accept they are choosing, to use or not use.  The person who thinks "I don't have a choice", or "I can't stop", or "I cannot help myself," has not committed sufficiently to quit the addiction.  Even if we hate ourselves for engaging in the addiction, one of the first steps to success is admitting we choose to use, just as we can choose not to.  It is also important to understand what we cannot control, what we do not choose.  So, a porn addict can choose to view porn or engage in PMO; that is 100% a personal choice, as is choosing not to.  But, a porn addict has no choice but to experience a dopamine high is they choose to watch porn.  That porn induced dopamine high is automatic with us.  It is cause and effect, Pavlovian.  You can choose whether to take a knife and cut yourself, but if you choose to cut yourself you have no choice but to feel the pain.  The feeling we have, when we watch porn, is a dopamine high that we interpret as very pleasurable, even if we hate it when it is happening.  It is that high that is addictive, the dopamine high, not porn itself.  Porn results in a brain reaction, a sexual thought, and sexual thoughts are naturally rewarded with a dopamine high.  The invention of High Speed Internet, and thus High Speed Internet Porn, made the addiction possible.  We, the species, really like a dopamine high, even when we wish we did not, but we have figured out ways to spike it using outside super stimulation. 

The idea that older forms of porn are not addictive has to do with availability.  For most of us anyway, older forms of porn are not addictive because they are finite.  Older forms of porn do not permit for daily searching for never before seen porn.  Older forms are not nearly as infinite as internet porn is.  Searching for the never before experienced porn scene (sexual thought) is also part of the addiction model, and is also rewarded with a dopamine rush.  The first time you experience a porn scene on DVD it might excite you--give you a dopamine high--very much.  But it is the ability to search for other never before experienced sexual thoughts that allow the addiction to form.  If you are stuck in a room with one DVD for the rest of your life, it will eventually become boring to you, as your brain desensitizes to it.  But, if you are stuck in the room with the internet, you can search infinitely for never before experienced sexual thought, forever, without ever having to see the same one twice.  It is that ability to search forever that is one of the foundations of the addiction. 

I think that giving up porn--which must be done--should perhaps, in your mind, become a dedication to giving up outside stimulation to get a dopamine high.  The dopamine high is what is addictive, and that is what must be surrendered, at least using external stimulation to obtain it.  Once I understood I was not going to make myself high anymore, using porn, it was possible to overcome the addiction, but, still incredibly difficult.  Quitting the addiction felt like dying, and I could see no end in sight to feeling that every single day for the rest of my life.  I quit before many did, so there was no one telling me the withdrawals would eventually diminish then disappear.  But, I am here telling you that.  For me, to get through, I had to embrace the pain, want it.  I told myself that if giving up porn meant I had to feel like I was dying every single day for the rest of my life so be it.  It does not last forever, but, maybe, you ought to adopt that mindset.  Remember, you are not giving up porn, you are giving up the high it gives you.  Sure, the porn has to go, but what you are going to miss is the brain reaction it produced.  You are going to miss that high for a while. 

Much love.

Will I AM.
 

sender

Active Member
alamar365 said:
If an intruder were to break into my house and somehow destroy my relationship with my wife, make me a distracted father, take away my self-confidence, completely demotivate me to work, exercise, and generally make my life a shitty mess, I'd kill the son-of-a-bitch.
@alamar365 - this is exactly what happened.  An intruder did in fact break into your house via your internet connection.  They don't know you personally, but they did this to you intentionally.  They knew what they were creating, its effect on you (including the harm it does), your difficulty in resisting it, etc.  They specifically tailor the content to maximize these effects and therefore your level of dependence on it.  My suggestion; what worked for me - is to focus the anger you feel at this intruder, who is more real than you know.  Get angry about this violation, about your lack of choice about having this content available to you (even though you can choose not to use, you can't totally remove it from your internet connection).  Even though this is about you (not the intruder), this anger can help you separate yourself from the content because in those moments of temptation (and there will be many), you can think about this intruder and how mad you are at it - to help you make a better choice in the moment.
 

Jz15

Member
Does anybody have any thoughts on this? I am at day 3 again because I relapsed 3 times and sometimes during the day I can't stand myself in the mirror. I go for a walk and don't even want to look at people, especially at women even when they look at me. Don't want to make any contact whatsoever and want to stay alone. I feel it is different than the pre-relapsing isolation because I feel nurtured while doing this, like I am healing by staying away from people, like I need a break. I am also on holidays right now so its not a big deal.

Has anybody experienced anything similar? So far I have been very active, extremely I'd say especially for someone being on holidays

But on the other hand I can't sit my ass all day and my friends are far from my town for the moment so staying active and helping people is the only option to better myself and of course not relapse.

Thanks.
 
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