E
escapeandnevercomeback
Guest
Orbiter said:
That's right. This is what this fuckin dopamine does.
Orbiters Journal of Recovery
- Thread starter Orbiter
- Start date
That's right. This is what this fuckin dopamine does.
Hey, Orbiter! Great posts...!
We have to know in ourselves that we and we alone would be the cause of our standing or falling. We can never again give too much power to external factors, like a picture, a site, a so-called 'trigger'.
That said, we also have to know in ourselves whether we're responding to a cue in looking for or visiting a given site. You did an awesome thing when you closed these sites immediately, and breathed through them.
Giving yourself that space between the thing pulling you and your response, just stopping for a moment and slowing your breathing down, has a powerful way of reminding us who's in control.
We have to know in ourselves that we and we alone would be the cause of our standing or falling. We can never again give too much power to external factors, like a picture, a site, a so-called 'trigger'.
That said, we also have to know in ourselves whether we're responding to a cue in looking for or visiting a given site. You did an awesome thing when you closed these sites immediately, and breathed through them.
Giving yourself that space between the thing pulling you and your response, just stopping for a moment and slowing your breathing down, has a powerful way of reminding us who's in control.
Phineas 808 said:
All correct!
I think as an addict, it's easier for the individual to identify as 'the victim' when they relapse. Every relapse or urge is something or someone elses fault. "Its the hot woman walking down the streets fault! It's the argument I had with my mums fault! It's the bad day at works fault! It's the fight i had with my wifes fault!" all of these things are easier to tell ourselves than admit there's a part of us had a choice to relapse or not...and we chose to relapse. It's a harsh reality for most of us to face up to but it's up to us to take responsibility and take control of our circumstances. Only we can do this because ultimately, it's our responsibility.
That said, it is day 1 as I relapsed last night. I could go on about how it's been a busy, stressful week etc. but at the end of the day, I wasn't going by the system that I put in place to keep me on the right path for the first few weeks and I need to take responsibility for this and reassess.
Orbiter said:
This will give me some time to reflect and get myself back on track. See you all in four days.
E
escapeandnevercomeback
Guest
Orbiter said:
We are definitely the victims of lack of knowledge when we started watching porn. I even feel like some people really have that perfect brain for porn, some would become addicted even if they knew the consequences. It's that voice "You could do it today, tomorrow you won't and you could stop anytime. Those guys have problems because they watched daily".
About "I am the one who chose to relapse"... This is interesting but in the mind it gets complicated. In my case, it's definitely not just a matter of willpower, as I can only resist the craving and arousal for so long until I give in and I don't consider myself very weak mentally. But I've definitely felt that I could've avoided edging/PMO if I just told myself to leave the place and do something physical to eliminate that energy. Maybe going out to run a little. I feel like there is actually always one last thing we can do but sometimes we fuck around and don't do it, thinking we could handle the urges by telling ourselves a lot of things.
Rescued from page two!
So today is day 4. I had to go away for longer in the end as I relapsed twice after my last post. No computer or net for a few days (outside of work) was definitely a difficult penalty for relapsing. It perhaps had the undesired effect of removing me from my support network (here) and the podcasts & recovery materials that can only be accessed through the computer. Still I managed to get myself back on track and was able to get into a good routine without the internet for a few days.
I will still try to limit my use as I am feeling the benefits of spending more time engaging with interests & activities outside the internet/computer but I will return to checking back in and having 2 hours use a day. I will stick to this for the remainder of this week at least as I feel 2 hours of free computer time is ample for what actually NEEDS to be done.
I am currently tracking on my Week 1 plan which seemed to serve me well at that point. I think perhaps I will have to tailor my strategy for week 2 to be more suitable to the challenges of that week. I will take some time this week to consider this.
I discussed in this journal awhile back I was going to seek counselling. Well I had my first session the previous Friday and I feel it was a challenging but positive experience. I believe these sessions will be of much value going ahead.
It is early days (once again) but I feel despite the relapses, I have been making progress with the necessary personal & recovery development over the last couple of weeks and I feeling the improvement in overall well-being that has come with the additional planning & taking this process much more seriously.
Wishing you all well.
So today is day 4. I had to go away for longer in the end as I relapsed twice after my last post. No computer or net for a few days (outside of work) was definitely a difficult penalty for relapsing. It perhaps had the undesired effect of removing me from my support network (here) and the podcasts & recovery materials that can only be accessed through the computer. Still I managed to get myself back on track and was able to get into a good routine without the internet for a few days.
I will still try to limit my use as I am feeling the benefits of spending more time engaging with interests & activities outside the internet/computer but I will return to checking back in and having 2 hours use a day. I will stick to this for the remainder of this week at least as I feel 2 hours of free computer time is ample for what actually NEEDS to be done.
I am currently tracking on my Week 1 plan which seemed to serve me well at that point. I think perhaps I will have to tailor my strategy for week 2 to be more suitable to the challenges of that week. I will take some time this week to consider this.
I discussed in this journal awhile back I was going to seek counselling. Well I had my first session the previous Friday and I feel it was a challenging but positive experience. I believe these sessions will be of much value going ahead.
It is early days (once again) but I feel despite the relapses, I have been making progress with the necessary personal & recovery development over the last couple of weeks and I feeling the improvement in overall well-being that has come with the additional planning & taking this process much more seriously.
Wishing you all well.
Today is Day 5.
There has been a number of shifts over the last two weeks in my work situation that has made my job more stressful, tiring and with the potential for longer hours in the immediate future. This has been a source of frustration and not welcome at a time when I am focusing a lot of effort into building better habits & routines outside of work. Unfortunately the financial toll of the pandemic on businesses as well as community & health services means that lowly workers such as myself seem to have less & less rights or agency over things like working arrangements.
Getting that out of my system, I suppose it could be argued that what I have written above is an example of a (pandemic not withstanding) typical challenge in life that as a person on a journey to recovery, I need to work on developing coping mechanisms to manage. My relapse at 11 days last week happened around the time that I had my first counseling session. I believe there is a link and this is another example of better coping & emotional regulation skills I should be putting more work into developing.
This will be addressed, but right now I feel I need to focus on getting some immediate momentum back. I am sticking to my Week 1 plan and will take the time either tomorrow or over the weekend to work on developing what exactly a typical workable plan for week 2 should be. I have been doing well working on the healthy habits to replace the excess computer time (music, reading, exercise, cold showers, walks, drives away etc.) and, along with the necessary tasks to do this weekend, I will continue to develop this.
Wishing you all well on your journey today.
There has been a number of shifts over the last two weeks in my work situation that has made my job more stressful, tiring and with the potential for longer hours in the immediate future. This has been a source of frustration and not welcome at a time when I am focusing a lot of effort into building better habits & routines outside of work. Unfortunately the financial toll of the pandemic on businesses as well as community & health services means that lowly workers such as myself seem to have less & less rights or agency over things like working arrangements.
Getting that out of my system, I suppose it could be argued that what I have written above is an example of a (pandemic not withstanding) typical challenge in life that as a person on a journey to recovery, I need to work on developing coping mechanisms to manage. My relapse at 11 days last week happened around the time that I had my first counseling session. I believe there is a link and this is another example of better coping & emotional regulation skills I should be putting more work into developing.
This will be addressed, but right now I feel I need to focus on getting some immediate momentum back. I am sticking to my Week 1 plan and will take the time either tomorrow or over the weekend to work on developing what exactly a typical workable plan for week 2 should be. I have been doing well working on the healthy habits to replace the excess computer time (music, reading, exercise, cold showers, walks, drives away etc.) and, along with the necessary tasks to do this weekend, I will continue to develop this.
Wishing you all well on your journey today.
Great post, Orbiter! I wish to focus on a couple of points you bring up:
Yes, life happens. If we accept this, with its ups and downs, happiness and sorrow, stressful and restful times, we will do all the better for it. Please listen to this difference: divorce it from your habit. Too many rebooters link their success or failure on how easy or hard a day they had- malarky! Don't disempower yourself.
Never, never let a bad day cause you to lapse! Even if- and I don't say this lightly- if your favorite dog dies! If everyone turns their back on you, and does so after cussing you out to your face! Your habit is separate, if you can see that. Yes, these things may work as emotional cues, and it may be tempting to run to our former insulation, our former security blankets, but this only strengthens the habit.
Not turning to our former responses in tough times will force us to learn how, automatically, to find new (and healthier) coping mechanisms. My opinion: you don't have to give too much thought, or even plan this out. It will happen naturally.
I can see this, and relate. It may be simply that the counseling session itself made you think about it (the habit or addiction) too much, and it became your focus, and obsession followed.
If the counseling will always have this affect, maybe rethink its necessity. If the counseling is necessary, is helpful in other ways, then continue (by all means!) but find a way to recast discussions about the former PMO use. Or ask yourself, what is it in the counseling session itself that may be disempowering me? Is it a 'once-an-addict-always-an-addict' mentality? Or is it 'an addict can never be trusted'- or something that gives too much power to outside stimuli (triggers) or the past (our back story)?
Some food for thought, to help you stand strong.
You're doing good, Orbiter, keep going!
Yes, life happens. If we accept this, with its ups and downs, happiness and sorrow, stressful and restful times, we will do all the better for it. Please listen to this difference: divorce it from your habit. Too many rebooters link their success or failure on how easy or hard a day they had- malarky! Don't disempower yourself.
Never, never let a bad day cause you to lapse! Even if- and I don't say this lightly- if your favorite dog dies! If everyone turns their back on you, and does so after cussing you out to your face! Your habit is separate, if you can see that. Yes, these things may work as emotional cues, and it may be tempting to run to our former insulation, our former security blankets, but this only strengthens the habit.
Not turning to our former responses in tough times will force us to learn how, automatically, to find new (and healthier) coping mechanisms. My opinion: you don't have to give too much thought, or even plan this out. It will happen naturally.
I can see this, and relate. It may be simply that the counseling session itself made you think about it (the habit or addiction) too much, and it became your focus, and obsession followed.
If the counseling will always have this affect, maybe rethink its necessity. If the counseling is necessary, is helpful in other ways, then continue (by all means!) but find a way to recast discussions about the former PMO use. Or ask yourself, what is it in the counseling session itself that may be disempowering me? Is it a 'once-an-addict-always-an-addict' mentality? Or is it 'an addict can never be trusted'- or something that gives too much power to outside stimuli (triggers) or the past (our back story)?
Some food for thought, to help you stand strong.
You're doing good, Orbiter, keep going!
Ahhh, sorry to hear that!
No worries, will look forward to you reply.
No worries, will look forward to you reply.
Phineas: I haven't actually mentioned my addiction to this counselor yet, I am using these sessions to address some of the other areas of my life (self-esteem, despression, unresolved grief from the past etc). The fact that the relapse happened BEFORE my first session leads me to think it's a case of feeling nervous & worried about it and using the same old bad coping mechanisms as usual.
I will keep your advice in mind though moving forward. Some of these issues are a life work, quitting this addiction is urgent.
Today is again day 0
I'm breaking my 3-4 day no computer 'punishment' rule. My reasoning is as follows:
1.) It disconnects me from my support network at what is usually quite a vulnerable period for me.
2.) I have to put a lot of my life & communication with others on hold by not using the computer, creating isolation & aimlessness.
3.) By avoiding the computer and the internet, it feels too much like trying to white-knuckle an urge away. Like I am avoiding
urges instead of managing them. The end result is I relapse a bunch of times anyway (I relapsed twice more after the
last post right on cue) avoid PMO for a few days and relapse shortly after using the computer again.
I think this is happening because I am avoiding instead of managing. This only serves to delay the inevitable relapse so I will instead resume healthy
limits for the computer and make it a consistent habit.
I think the 7 day plan works as a circuit breaker and I will resume this tomorrow, but i'm not sure how sustainable such a regimented way of living week to week is for me.
Phineas, I think you are right in that the act itself of removing the unhealthy coping mechanisms from my life, this change will naturally occur. The weeks beyond the first should more focused on self care & being occupied/distracted with developing the alternative healthy habits, connections etc.
So the question then is...why after trying to beat this addiction for over 8 years am I, as recently as earlier today, still relapsing?
Why is it that I can be so determined at the beginning of the week to kick this habit forever, and by the end of the week simply give a half-arsed internal shoulder-shrug and relapse, saying to myself and all of you here who read this journal for the two millionth time that next time will be different? I feel like this journal has devolved into an endless parade of "I had a bad day at work and so I relapsed" or "I woke up with a cold and felt bad so I relapsed" or "I had a fight with my housemate so I relapsed" or "I felt rejected so I relapsed". For me that shit has really run it's course. They only serve to function as excuses, even if I don't intend them to be.
The problem with this is i'm not taking responsibility or growing through simply coming on here after relapsing & explaining why. It's good to know what these triggers/cues/whatever are but this knowledge is USELESS if I still just give in to them without a fight like this. There will always be triggers, there will always be temptations and I can't run away from them forever.
SIDENOTE: This will be the last time I use the word "trigger" in this journal. Framing relapses in this way is no longer helping, there are posts by others who have articulated this better than I.
The real reason i'm relapsing is simply because I choose to give in to the urges. The reason I give in is because there is a part of me that chooses to and wants to. There is a part of me that's scared of moving forward because what lies beyond recovery might be in some ways even more challenging that the endless relapse-recover cycle and I will have to take responsibility for it. I won't be able to return to self-medicating through PMO because it will no longer be an option.
This suggests that deep down, PMO is still an option to me.
Today I have been reminded of this post The Underdog made on the YBR forums what feels like a million years ago
https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/tools-for-change-recovery-from-porn-addiction/rebooting-advice-observations-from-successful-rebooters/im-going-to-reveal-to-you-the-1-secret-to-overcome-pornography-addiction/
As well as a quote from Gabe in this thread:
https://yourbrainrebalanced.com/forum/index.php?threads/relapse-back-to-day-one.274/
When I quit smoking at the tail end of last year, giving in was never an option to me. I made a commitment to stopping no matter what it took and went through a month of varying stages of withdrawal & misery to get there BUT NOT ONCE in that month did I give any serious consideration to having a cigarette. I didn't because at the time I felt truly over them and what purpose they served in my life no longer existed. The withdrawals were merely a process I had to go through to get to the other side.
It's been over two months since I quit smoking. I don't know the exact number because I stopped counting after the first month and not once have I thought of going back to smoking. Even when I smell it and the cravings come, they're easy at this point to dismiss. I feel like this is the difference between real recovery and what i've been doing with PMO over the last few years.
So I think it's time to ask myself truly and honestly, if I have been truly committed to quitting porn forever? Leaving it behind forever, never being able to return to it in times of stress, discomfort, rejection, loneliness? Dealing with whatever lies beyond?
I believe, until I can answer with one hundred percent of my being YES, nothing will change.
I will keep your advice in mind though moving forward. Some of these issues are a life work, quitting this addiction is urgent.
Today is again day 0
I'm breaking my 3-4 day no computer 'punishment' rule. My reasoning is as follows:
1.) It disconnects me from my support network at what is usually quite a vulnerable period for me.
2.) I have to put a lot of my life & communication with others on hold by not using the computer, creating isolation & aimlessness.
3.) By avoiding the computer and the internet, it feels too much like trying to white-knuckle an urge away. Like I am avoiding
urges instead of managing them. The end result is I relapse a bunch of times anyway (I relapsed twice more after the
last post right on cue) avoid PMO for a few days and relapse shortly after using the computer again.
I think this is happening because I am avoiding instead of managing. This only serves to delay the inevitable relapse so I will instead resume healthy
limits for the computer and make it a consistent habit.
I think the 7 day plan works as a circuit breaker and I will resume this tomorrow, but i'm not sure how sustainable such a regimented way of living week to week is for me.
Phineas, I think you are right in that the act itself of removing the unhealthy coping mechanisms from my life, this change will naturally occur. The weeks beyond the first should more focused on self care & being occupied/distracted with developing the alternative healthy habits, connections etc.
So the question then is...why after trying to beat this addiction for over 8 years am I, as recently as earlier today, still relapsing?
Why is it that I can be so determined at the beginning of the week to kick this habit forever, and by the end of the week simply give a half-arsed internal shoulder-shrug and relapse, saying to myself and all of you here who read this journal for the two millionth time that next time will be different? I feel like this journal has devolved into an endless parade of "I had a bad day at work and so I relapsed" or "I woke up with a cold and felt bad so I relapsed" or "I had a fight with my housemate so I relapsed" or "I felt rejected so I relapsed". For me that shit has really run it's course. They only serve to function as excuses, even if I don't intend them to be.
The problem with this is i'm not taking responsibility or growing through simply coming on here after relapsing & explaining why. It's good to know what these triggers/cues/whatever are but this knowledge is USELESS if I still just give in to them without a fight like this. There will always be triggers, there will always be temptations and I can't run away from them forever.
SIDENOTE: This will be the last time I use the word "trigger" in this journal. Framing relapses in this way is no longer helping, there are posts by others who have articulated this better than I.
The real reason i'm relapsing is simply because I choose to give in to the urges. The reason I give in is because there is a part of me that chooses to and wants to. There is a part of me that's scared of moving forward because what lies beyond recovery might be in some ways even more challenging that the endless relapse-recover cycle and I will have to take responsibility for it. I won't be able to return to self-medicating through PMO because it will no longer be an option.
This suggests that deep down, PMO is still an option to me.
Today I have been reminded of this post The Underdog made on the YBR forums what feels like a million years ago
https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/tools-for-change-recovery-from-porn-addiction/rebooting-advice-observations-from-successful-rebooters/im-going-to-reveal-to-you-the-1-secret-to-overcome-pornography-addiction/
As well as a quote from Gabe in this thread:
https://yourbrainrebalanced.com/forum/index.php?threads/relapse-back-to-day-one.274/
When I quit smoking at the tail end of last year, giving in was never an option to me. I made a commitment to stopping no matter what it took and went through a month of varying stages of withdrawal & misery to get there BUT NOT ONCE in that month did I give any serious consideration to having a cigarette. I didn't because at the time I felt truly over them and what purpose they served in my life no longer existed. The withdrawals were merely a process I had to go through to get to the other side.
It's been over two months since I quit smoking. I don't know the exact number because I stopped counting after the first month and not once have I thought of going back to smoking. Even when I smell it and the cravings come, they're easy at this point to dismiss. I feel like this is the difference between real recovery and what i've been doing with PMO over the last few years.
So I think it's time to ask myself truly and honestly, if I have been truly committed to quitting porn forever? Leaving it behind forever, never being able to return to it in times of stress, discomfort, rejection, loneliness? Dealing with whatever lies beyond?
I believe, until I can answer with one hundred percent of my being YES, nothing will change.
^ This!
Wow, Orbiter! If I quoted your whole post here, as it deserves to be, I'd take up needless space in your journal!
Everything you say above is powerful and spot on!
This is so true! So many mix their bad habits or addictions with these deeper issues, conflating the two, and make a life long commitment to recoveryism, without ever really changing! This distinction is paramount! Once we remove the habit (what may take only a matter of 3-4 months), our heads will be a lot clearer to see what we're supposed to see, feel what we're supposed to feel in our longer range goals of changing the deeper issues/needs that we have for inner healing.
All that you say about the level of commitment, what I call being 'dead-dog' serious, or taking ourselves by the throat, as it were, is summed up nicely in referencing Underdog. I link to his journal on my page 1, and particularly to his 'Porn is Not an Option Mindset' post! Awesome stuff!
On the question of relapsing, knowing the difference between a lapse and a relapse is important. Of course, not that we plan for a lapse (which our tricky lower brain may suggest), but in lieu of one, I may ask myself, Is there a re- to my laspe? Am I repeating the behavior in a trackable way? This is why, when I began counting again, I tracked each lapse so I can discern any pattern emerging. Sure enough! That tells me that I am relapsing, that is to say, I've returned to a pattern of behavior, it's a habit, I've habituated to some behavior. Now, how can I hack into this habit to change it from within?
There's also what's called the Abstinence Violation Effect (or AVE), that we should know about. I link to it on my page 1 as well. But, if we're really making a go at abstinence, and (self-forbid) we lapse, how does this affect us? Many have an all-or-nothing approach. Now please hear this important distinction:
1. In our immediate goal of ceasing the unwanted behavior: Yes! All or nothing! Go all in!
2. In our overall recovery or overall health, or to have a healthy perspective: Recognize that often recovery is non-linear, at least until bad habits and their patterns are changed.
If we have both view points in mind, then we can bounce back easier from a lapse, should it occur. Many who have a long streak (60-100's of days), but then lapse, have a hard time coming back, because they think they pissed away all their progress, which just isn't true.
This is something I wanted to say, too, is never punish yourself- even in lieu of a lapse. This only strengthens it, I feel. Reward yourself? Even for the smallest of victories? Yes!! But never shame, never punish yourself. So called negative reinforcement is counter productive.
Again, I like what your saying avoidance versus managing (dismissing) urges. A very important distinction.
Don't worry about 'how long' this is taking, for me all my years I simply chalk up to trial-and-error, seeing what works and what doesn't work. And it looks like you're seeing what does indeed work.
Good job, brother!
Wow, Orbiter! If I quoted your whole post here, as it deserves to be, I'd take up needless space in your journal!
Everything you say above is powerful and spot on!
This is so true! So many mix their bad habits or addictions with these deeper issues, conflating the two, and make a life long commitment to recoveryism, without ever really changing! This distinction is paramount! Once we remove the habit (what may take only a matter of 3-4 months), our heads will be a lot clearer to see what we're supposed to see, feel what we're supposed to feel in our longer range goals of changing the deeper issues/needs that we have for inner healing.
All that you say about the level of commitment, what I call being 'dead-dog' serious, or taking ourselves by the throat, as it were, is summed up nicely in referencing Underdog. I link to his journal on my page 1, and particularly to his 'Porn is Not an Option Mindset' post! Awesome stuff!
On the question of relapsing, knowing the difference between a lapse and a relapse is important. Of course, not that we plan for a lapse (which our tricky lower brain may suggest), but in lieu of one, I may ask myself, Is there a re- to my laspe? Am I repeating the behavior in a trackable way? This is why, when I began counting again, I tracked each lapse so I can discern any pattern emerging. Sure enough! That tells me that I am relapsing, that is to say, I've returned to a pattern of behavior, it's a habit, I've habituated to some behavior. Now, how can I hack into this habit to change it from within?
There's also what's called the Abstinence Violation Effect (or AVE), that we should know about. I link to it on my page 1 as well. But, if we're really making a go at abstinence, and (self-forbid) we lapse, how does this affect us? Many have an all-or-nothing approach. Now please hear this important distinction:
1. In our immediate goal of ceasing the unwanted behavior: Yes! All or nothing! Go all in!
2. In our overall recovery or overall health, or to have a healthy perspective: Recognize that often recovery is non-linear, at least until bad habits and their patterns are changed.
If we have both view points in mind, then we can bounce back easier from a lapse, should it occur. Many who have a long streak (60-100's of days), but then lapse, have a hard time coming back, because they think they pissed away all their progress, which just isn't true.
This is something I wanted to say, too, is never punish yourself- even in lieu of a lapse. This only strengthens it, I feel. Reward yourself? Even for the smallest of victories? Yes!! But never shame, never punish yourself. So called negative reinforcement is counter productive.
Again, I like what your saying avoidance versus managing (dismissing) urges. A very important distinction.
Don't worry about 'how long' this is taking, for me all my years I simply chalk up to trial-and-error, seeing what works and what doesn't work. And it looks like you're seeing what does indeed work.
Good job, brother!
EarthWalker
Respected Member
Hi, Orbiter.
I can relate to how you think. What is working for me is to...be less mental/thought based and trust my intuition more.
Like being at a store next to a bunch of choices for tea. Which one should I get? I just let my intuition guide me. Ended up buying some Lungwort tea. Then I looked it up online and it looks like a really great tea to drink.
It also looks like you are putting a whole lot of pressure on yourself. It is easy for me to say...but just relax. Ignore the problem and move on.
You can also imagine the physical body as a conscious entity and talk to it. Ask for advice on what to do.
Just some suggestions. This looks to be working for me along with some other stuff.
Much luck
EW
I can relate to how you think. What is working for me is to...be less mental/thought based and trust my intuition more.
Like being at a store next to a bunch of choices for tea. Which one should I get? I just let my intuition guide me. Ended up buying some Lungwort tea. Then I looked it up online and it looks like a really great tea to drink.
It also looks like you are putting a whole lot of pressure on yourself. It is easy for me to say...but just relax. Ignore the problem and move on.
You can also imagine the physical body as a conscious entity and talk to it. Ask for advice on what to do.
Just some suggestions. This looks to be working for me along with some other stuff.
Much luck
EW
Thank you Phineas and EarthWalker for your thoughtful advice & words.
Phineas - Congratulations once again on completing your four month journey and thank you for taking the time out from such a triumph to share your thoughts in this journal.
You make an interesting point in distinctions between the 'lapse' and the 'relapse'. In response I would say in my case, there is a considerable difference between slipping up, maybe at worst having a quick relapse and getting back on track after and habitually engaging in PMO but instead of regularly doing it, bingeing a weeks worth of PMO into a weekend. One is a human & recoverable setback, the other is a return to old habits and using technicalities to differentiate it ("Well I was clean for five days", "the material wasn't as hardcore as the old days" etc).
It's the same old habit in a new costume. Not only that but i've picked up some new ones in the recent couple of months with seeking borderline content & softcore content on photography sites. Perhaps somewhat similar to your issues with Pinterest. I actually feel like borderline or 'soft' material is easier to relapse to, possibly because we can tell ourselves we're not actually PMO-ing (yet).
We have talked about the AVE phenomena before and it's indeed an easy trap to slip into, shaming & beating ourselves all the way into the next binge. I am consciously avoiding this even if the language of my last post may come across as otherwise.
This brings me to your point EarthWalker about putting a lot of pressure on myself. While this all may seem like too much. My intention here is not to beat myself up but to acknowledge my commitment to this reboot has waned and have merely been minimising my PMO habit and to recommit to recovery and be rid of porn forever.
So today on day 1 I took some time today to imagine/visualise potential problems & difficult situations that we often have to deal with in life and what it would be like dealing with those without the option of PMO to fall back to. I was genuinely surprised at how much resistance to quitting I felt come from within me in response to this thought. This is something I need to recognise and tackle.
Can I handle being rejected by a woman without PMO?
Can I handle having a stressful week at work or deal with dreading a stressful week to come without PMO?
Can I handle having an arguement with a friend, family member, co-worker or potential partner without PMO?
Can I handle being tired, hungover or sick without PMO?
Can I handle being given bad news about something going wrong (car breaking down, lease ending, money lost etc.) without PMO?
Can I handle being bored or lonely without PMO?
Because if I am going to quit this for good, I will have to.
For good is for good. All my favourite actresses & models I will never see again, all of the kinks & weird fetishes I will most likely never experience, the indulgence, the escape, the refuge. It's time to grow and leave this behind and with it, let something new in.
Phineas - Congratulations once again on completing your four month journey and thank you for taking the time out from such a triumph to share your thoughts in this journal.
You make an interesting point in distinctions between the 'lapse' and the 'relapse'. In response I would say in my case, there is a considerable difference between slipping up, maybe at worst having a quick relapse and getting back on track after and habitually engaging in PMO but instead of regularly doing it, bingeing a weeks worth of PMO into a weekend. One is a human & recoverable setback, the other is a return to old habits and using technicalities to differentiate it ("Well I was clean for five days", "the material wasn't as hardcore as the old days" etc).
It's the same old habit in a new costume. Not only that but i've picked up some new ones in the recent couple of months with seeking borderline content & softcore content on photography sites. Perhaps somewhat similar to your issues with Pinterest. I actually feel like borderline or 'soft' material is easier to relapse to, possibly because we can tell ourselves we're not actually PMO-ing (yet).
We have talked about the AVE phenomena before and it's indeed an easy trap to slip into, shaming & beating ourselves all the way into the next binge. I am consciously avoiding this even if the language of my last post may come across as otherwise.
This brings me to your point EarthWalker about putting a lot of pressure on myself. While this all may seem like too much. My intention here is not to beat myself up but to acknowledge my commitment to this reboot has waned and have merely been minimising my PMO habit and to recommit to recovery and be rid of porn forever.
So today on day 1 I took some time today to imagine/visualise potential problems & difficult situations that we often have to deal with in life and what it would be like dealing with those without the option of PMO to fall back to. I was genuinely surprised at how much resistance to quitting I felt come from within me in response to this thought. This is something I need to recognise and tackle.
Can I handle being rejected by a woman without PMO?
Can I handle having a stressful week at work or deal with dreading a stressful week to come without PMO?
Can I handle having an arguement with a friend, family member, co-worker or potential partner without PMO?
Can I handle being tired, hungover or sick without PMO?
Can I handle being given bad news about something going wrong (car breaking down, lease ending, money lost etc.) without PMO?
Can I handle being bored or lonely without PMO?
Because if I am going to quit this for good, I will have to.
For good is for good. All my favourite actresses & models I will never see again, all of the kinks & weird fetishes I will most likely never experience, the indulgence, the escape, the refuge. It's time to grow and leave this behind and with it, let something new in.
E
escapeandnevercomeback
Guest
Orbiter said:
Definitely. When I stay away from porn for a while, hard craving and urges become strong and even pictures are enough to trigger me hard. The addicted brain likes tricks. Tricks like "You are not masturbating yet" or "This is not hardcore." Everything to get what it wants. We must not listen to that voice. It's true that it's easier to relapse to substitutes because they are more easy to find. Social media is softcore porn in disguise and it's so acceptable that people don't look at it and say: Whoa! Fuckin sluts! Indecent!" They say "It's pictures on social media, man, what the fuck is wrong with you?" But, let's be serious, it got to a point, man... Some pictures on Instagram and even of Facebook are straight porn. Or do they want to tell me that it's not porn because I don't see 2 things that would turn in into "real porn" but I actually see everything else? (if you know what I mean. I'm trying not to get graphic and trigger people).
I believe the lack of knowledge is one of the things to blame, because if they knew about porn addiction, they would notice the "porn" behind the social media. Porn addiction is still something young, I think we need more time until it becomes know like cigarettes. If I hadn't known about porn addiction either I would've been on social media all day, "getting high", giving myself dopamine spikes thinking that I am "normal" because that's what people do.
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escapeandnevercomeback
Guest
Orbiter said:
Definitely, man. It was the "comfort" for being nervous, it's happened to me a tone of times. I relapsed before important events in my life and then beat myself about it. And you are right, quitting this addiction is urgent for all of us who have lost years to it.
This is what we need to do in order to grow but removing the (actually unhealthy) coping/comfort/self-medication things from our lives is brutal. Prepare yourself for the pain that comes with this, when you find yourself all of a sudden out there in the storm. In moments like those I found myself thinking: "Fuck, man, how the fuck am I supposed to go through the day now without my 'comfort'" as I literally had (still don't have) no other coping skill.
I know, man. I've asked myself that question a thousand times: "After 3 years of consciously trying to quit porn addiction and after actually 12 years of trying to quit watching porn (I started for a different reason, not knowing about porn addiction at that time) I still relapse over and over again, constantly?" The thing is, it might be deeper than I think. At the surface it looks like I like the dopamine pleasure and I don't want to give it up, desperately trying (in vain) to find a way to keep it in my life and have a life, which is not actually possible. But I think it runs deeper, deeper into the pain from my past. My life nowadays is not a life that could negate the hard past, maybe that's why I cling to this fuckin porn like my medicine. It's a cycle that got so confusing and difficult that I don't know what the fuck to do anymore. It's "I can't get a life because of porn but I can't escape porn because I don't have a life. Both are terribly difficult to fix so what the fuck then? Quitting porn is my no. 1 priority, I know, but I can't do it."
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escapeandnevercomeback
Guest
Orbiter said:
Yes, because you've mentioned quitting smoking, I've quit drinking for 40+ days, I don't even know exactly what day I started, it was January 20 something (26?). This is when I had the last bad hangover. I drank myself to sleep then I woke up and felt sick all day. But you know what? I finally stopped drinking for more than 40 days (last time being like 3 years ago) because of a big scare (maybe that's what I need with porn too). You see, I had a drinking problem. I had sleepless nights and heart palpitations that scared me. I kept postponing to see a doctor (don't ask me why, sometimes I'm unexplainable even to myself) but one day I had to move some furniture and I had a crazy palpitations episode and I panicked like crazy, man, I thought I was going to have a heart attack. I told this to my dad so maybe he could keep an eye on me because I was fuckin afraid something was going to happen to me that night. My dad knew about my drinking problem and told me: "Why don't you actually quit drinking? See what's doing to you?" And that's it. I quit and I haven't had a drink since. Anytime I think about drinking something, that scare from back then comes into my mind and won't let me. Since then, I haven't had even 1 sleepless night and palpitations maybe 1 or 2, I don't even remember if I actually even had them. No joking.
Maybe this is what I actually need with porn. I haven't had the crazy scare with this but if I look well into it, I could find the scare, it's just this fuckin addiction is not life threatening. It's not like you walk around the room thinking "I am going to die because of this!" and this gives you a "reason" to keep going, as you actually can't overdose to this shit. But if I looked really well at my pathetic life so far, I would find the scare right away in... actually having no life. This should be enough to scare me. I have no friends, no girlfriend, living a lonely, isolated life and dealing with hard social anxiety that keeps me isolated and lonely. This should be enough to scare me but... it doesn't.
Coming back to not remembering exactly when I started my alcohol streak, maybe I stress myself too much with this porn shit. Like, it's always on my mind, always thinking about the number of days, always reminding myself that I need to quit... Maybe not paying so much attention to this would be better.
escapeandnevercomeback said:
I think regarding that stuff, we probably need to be honest with ourselves that porn is basically is and can be anything we use for our PMO habit.
I'm not sure what the solution for social media is as I have not used it since 2013, but I think the change has to come from within first. Once we're set in our commitment to this, we can address the way we use social media, set limits on usage or consider if we need to use it at all.
Personally I feel the world would be a better place without it but that's just my opinion.
If we're thinking things like 'how can I get through life without PMO' (and i'm not throwing stones because this is how a very big part of me still thinks) then we've got to build those coping skills. If we've got no life, we've got to find actual interests and things in our life.
One of the reasons I have started counseling is to work on building those coping mechanisms and learning to re-frame my (numerous) negative thought patterns & distortions. PMO hasn't even come up in our chats, at least not yet.
It's a real catch-22 because doing this is really hard while stuck in an addiction cycle and it's even more difficult to address the deeper issues in a messed up state of mind. I think the best way is to prioritise quitting PMO & working on the life skills and addressing the deeper issues as we become more stable & secure.
Like Phineas said earlier, when we quit PMO we will inevitably fill the void with other things so I think this will happen naturally.
Do you have any interests that you can pursue instead of PMO? I feel like this habit robs us of the motivation & reward or engaging in interests so many of us don't have them. Is there something you want to get better at? Even something like getting fitter or getting better at cooking?
Having interests builds a sense of identity & self worth because it creates skills & strengths that we build ourselves and that will in turn make us feel better about ourselves. PMO robs us of this, it makes us lazy & unmotivated and our lives & self image suffer.
See I don't think there is a rock bottom, I don't think there's an end to how low we can go. Everything we do either pushes us towards or away from this addiction so I think the potential either way is endless.
I know from bitter experience that motivation doesn't come to us if we wait for it, we have to build it by doing things that push our life in the direction towards something worth living. I think that can be as simple getting up at a good time in the morning and cooking a solid breakfast, getting the washing through, going for a walk or run somewhere out of the house. Heck if it's a REALLY bad day, even just getting out of bed and making a cup of tea is a step in the right direction.
I remember when I first quit, I took up a Japanese language course in the evenings after work. Time & money meant I couldn't continue it but perhaps I should try again some day.
Even when I relapse, these days I am getting into the habit of doing some pushups after, having a cold shower to snap out of it, going for a walk & eating a good meal after. It does make a difference and acts as a circuit breaker to the binge-cycle.
^ I think rather than thinking every moment about the number of days and all the negative thoughts that come with that ('I am still so far from my goal after all this time', 'where would I be if it weren't for all those relapses', 'why can't I get a decent streak when i'm trying so hard', 'why is it so easy for *other rebooter* and not for me', 'i'm broken and i'll never be able to escape' so on and so forth) making it a priority to do things even if they are little things like what I mentioned above, that push our lives in the right direction I think is the way forward.
Once again, like Phineas said, this will happen when we quit PMO forever because we will HAVE to find things to do and ways to cope with living.
Thank you for taking time to drop in and share all this Escape. It has given me food for thought, I hope it has for you too.
E
escapeandnevercomeback
Guest
You are not the only one Orbiter. I definitely think the world would be a better place without smartphones and social media. I don't like how it turned people into people walking around staring at the phone. But anyway.
The thing with quitting porn addiction for me is that I don't have other "joy" in life and neither other coping skills and I've had a hard time figuring out how to make it work. Staying away from porn was hard because of lack of coping skills or things to make me feel better and I would feel empty and low. My life is a little complicated and I need to do some work to bring it to a level that I dream about but it's very difficult without energy and motivation and suffering from social anxiety, all those being what porn does to me.
I've been thinking intensely about what I could do as I saw that I didn't have any real success. I've been relapsing without even reaching 2 weeks lately. And I thought maybe I should start with easier things because "fixing my life" right now seems a lot with this brain affected by porn. Maybe I should start with little things like exercise, starting some hobby that I like etc. You know what I mean? Because I think they also fit in the biggest picture of fixing my life. The "normal life" that I see for me includes them. And I thought I probably made a mistake waiting to quit porn before starting doing anything for me life. I thought it would work but maybe it doesn't. Maybe I should push myself to do some things at the same time. It's very difficult without motivation and energy and anxiety but I really need to do it. People don't grow if they don't leave their comfort zones and venture into the scary unknown. Porn is the ultimate "comfort zone" that keeps you trapped.
The thing with quitting porn addiction for me is that I don't have other "joy" in life and neither other coping skills and I've had a hard time figuring out how to make it work. Staying away from porn was hard because of lack of coping skills or things to make me feel better and I would feel empty and low. My life is a little complicated and I need to do some work to bring it to a level that I dream about but it's very difficult without energy and motivation and suffering from social anxiety, all those being what porn does to me.
I've been thinking intensely about what I could do as I saw that I didn't have any real success. I've been relapsing without even reaching 2 weeks lately. And I thought maybe I should start with easier things because "fixing my life" right now seems a lot with this brain affected by porn. Maybe I should start with little things like exercise, starting some hobby that I like etc. You know what I mean? Because I think they also fit in the biggest picture of fixing my life. The "normal life" that I see for me includes them. And I thought I probably made a mistake waiting to quit porn before starting doing anything for me life. I thought it would work but maybe it doesn't. Maybe I should push myself to do some things at the same time. It's very difficult without motivation and energy and anxiety but I really need to do it. People don't grow if they don't leave their comfort zones and venture into the scary unknown. Porn is the ultimate "comfort zone" that keeps you trapped.
It's day 4 today. I have been sick and as a result, very bed-ridden and very idle from my usual activities the last couple of days. I should add (perhaps as a result of that idle-ness?) I did MO on day 3 as, for some reason, the overwhelming urge came over as I was reading the https://easypeasymethod.org/ online book. While I am on chaser alert at the moment as I result, I haven't actually felt any urges or desires to PMO as a result. I'll stay vigilant but try not to obsess over it. I don't FEEL like it set me back.
I have been thinking more about the commitment aspect of quitting and the "Porn is not an option" mindset. In the time I have been thinking about recovery, i've been trying to do a mental re-framing of what place porn actually has in my life and understand why in those moments of weakness I still feel I need it. I need to remind myself amongst other things that:
* Like cigarettes, PMO in reality actually fulfills NO need in my life whatsoever. Any needs I think it fulfills are mere rationalisations for not committing to quitting the habit for good
* PMO will only ever make my current problems worse
* If I PMO from stress, that stress will be still be there once i'm done
* I always handle life problems better when I don't PMO
* I've seen and experienced everything PMO has to offer and I am happy to leave ALL of it behind
* I accept that any fetishes or P-inspired desires are keeping me stuck in this habit and I am happy to leave all of them behind
* PMO is a dead, rotting branch in my life that only holds me back from moving forward
Wishing you all well in your journey today
I have been thinking more about the commitment aspect of quitting and the "Porn is not an option" mindset. In the time I have been thinking about recovery, i've been trying to do a mental re-framing of what place porn actually has in my life and understand why in those moments of weakness I still feel I need it. I need to remind myself amongst other things that:
* Like cigarettes, PMO in reality actually fulfills NO need in my life whatsoever. Any needs I think it fulfills are mere rationalisations for not committing to quitting the habit for good
* PMO will only ever make my current problems worse
* If I PMO from stress, that stress will be still be there once i'm done
* I always handle life problems better when I don't PMO
* I've seen and experienced everything PMO has to offer and I am happy to leave ALL of it behind
* I accept that any fetishes or P-inspired desires are keeping me stuck in this habit and I am happy to leave all of them behind
* PMO is a dead, rotting branch in my life that only holds me back from moving forward
Wishing you all well in your journey today
E
escapeandnevercomeback
Guest
That's right, man. We need to spend the energy on something that brings something to our lives instead of throwing it away with porn that brings nothing to our lives, no health benefits, no skills, absolutely nothing. Porn is not a sex life and it's not a "fun activity". Porn is not entertainment. Porn promises entertainment, fun and pleasure and it delivers only problems. I'm sure the devil is so happy and laughing when I engage in porn activities. I let that scene that I saw on TV in a movie when I was 7 to influence my life too much.