How we think its us

[Gracie]

This was posted in success stories.

This posted by Oldhornyguy:

Thank you Bibbity for sharing your story, your husband is a very lucky man to have someone as strong and understanding as you have been as he worked through his issues.  I sometimes wish I had access to this information 15 years ago when it could have maybe saved my first marriage, but that is water under the bridge.

And I know you have probably heard this before, but I will say to you and Gracie, please don't take this as a total knock on your self esteem.  I can say for myself and I think many others that we didn't turn to "self service" because our wives/GFs/SOs were unattractive or sexually unskilled.  It was just there.  For many of us PMO preceded real sex and just totally screwed up any attempt at real loving sexuality.

I don't think you personally think this, but it seems that many people think, "If I were just sexy enough, he would stop."  But that is like thinking, "If I were just funny enough, he wouldn't go the bar and drink."  It is, of course, natural to think that, but it just not work with the addiction process. 

I don't think it is an excuse, but the addiction process does make us self centered and have horrible judgement.  We know we don't want to do these things, we know they are harmful to ourselves and our loved ones -- and then we do them anyway.  We don't do it because PMO is better than our women, but rather because we are trapped in the addictive process. 
So, hold your head high knowing you have helped a man rescue himself from his addictive process, not by your sexiness, but by your strength, courage and intelligence.  All of which are more sexy than sexiness.

Once again, thanks for sharing.  Your husband is a lucky man, we are all envious. [/i

And this was my reply:

"OHG  I get what you are saying.  But if a woman was addicted to porn and her husband was 60, and she was getting off to 20 something year olds over and over again and ignoring her husband and his sexual needs, would you not think it was size related or perfomance related or even physique related?  And if you throw in that as her husband you had an occasional or even frequent ED problem at this time (similar to women who do not orgasm every time) would you wonder if that was the cause as well?  Or do you think on discovery and hearing it is not you it is me and my addiction, you would not ever after think about the ages and looks of the people and making comparisons?

This does get better with time, but putting it together with the secrecy and the trust and the turning away it is difficult.  Kind of reminds me in high school when someone would break up and say its not you its me.  Just a thought. "

I know this is long but I feel sometimes that we, as women, are expected to just say okay you looked at a lot of women and thought about them as the main part of your sex life, sometimes for years. (Mine was 20) Then we are told it meant nothing its an addiction, and crap we are left feeling stupid. And then go on.  Many of us thought our men had a low libido or if like us approaching 60 it was his aging.  So then at that age, we find out its young naked bodies but its not us.  Very tough indeed. 

Make no mistake my husband and I are doing great.  But as I look back I think of what was toughest.  Because just as the men watch for triggers, we watch for them to try to avoid the rabbit hole that we can go down too. This is one of mine.

 

[OldHornyGuy]

Hi Gracie,

In many ways I agree with your post, and I was not saying what I did as an excuse for our (and in my case, my own) behavior.  I agree with you absolutely that it can certainly hurt to feel that the person closest to you is not attracted to you.  And it is easy to feel that somehow it is your "fault" for not being whatever it is that he is looking for.  I find myself in a similar situation.

To be blunt about it, my SO is (was?) addicted to her vibrator.  Like many of us, she cannot orgasm to the sensations of normal sex.  Now, this happened before I met her.  And I can tell you I feel full empathy for the hurt my addiction caused over the years in this particular area.  Pretty much no matter how hard I try, I can not fully please her in bed.  Do I feel like a failure sometimes?  Yes, I do.  OK, more than sometimes.  Does it get under my skin that a hunk of hideous plastic makes her feel better than I do?  Indeed it does.  I can't help it, and I am sure that every woman who has been affected by porn addiction feels those feelings.

But then I have to take a step back and say, "I am not a lousy lover, she is just desensitized to the real thing."  And I suppose (to make the karmic circle complete) there may come a time where she dumps me and goes back to her plastic friend as being "easier."  Believe, I know that would hurt tremendously.  And yes, I would feel horrible that I "couldn't please her."  But is it really something wrong with me?

As horrible as it would feel, I would have to keep saying to myself, "This is her problem."  It is her brain which is wired up a different way so that even good loving doesn't have the same effect.  I would have to say, "I am still a good lover, but I lost her to her miswired brain."  If my SO did dump me because her vibrator made her feel better than me, what would you tell me at that point?

And as you well know, our brains get totally miswired as result of porn addiction.  I am sure you have read many reports of straight men seeking out gay porn or other fetishes, that even they know are things they are not really interested in!  Their brains are pushing them toward novelty and variety.  So, what is on the screen is not necessarily anything we are seeking out in real life. Soon we can't relate to any kind of real woman.  I have read accounts where guys have had the opportunity to hookup with pornstars -- and they still can't perform or be in the moment.

Which is why I have said to several women now, please don't let OUR screwed up brains get YOU down.  Well, as best you can.  Whether we started before we met you or took up porn as a "temporary" measure at some point, once the brain starts to get rewired, it takes on a mind of its own, if you will.

I will give you one last example.  One time while with my SO I found myself fantasizing about an acquaintance I recently saw.  This other woman truly is an acquaintance, I know almost nothing about her (she works in a store I frequent and we talked a few times).  The weird part is that she could be my SO's sister, they look so much alike.  Same hair color and length.  Same body shape.  Same almost everything.  So why I am I thinking about her when my SO is all over me?  I have no earthly idea!  Do I need to do better?  Yes!  Will I ever have perfect control of my brain?  I am not sure I will.

So, you don't need to excuse our stupid, miswired behavior, but you also can try not to take it too personally.  Because the fault is not in you, Gracie, but in us.  Our women are plenty attractive, loving and sexy, but (pardon my French) our brains are so fucked up we don't see that.  Our problem -- which unfortunately, I know all to well, becomes your problem as well.

Peace.  And thanks for understanding us better than we understand ourselves!

 

[Androg]

Inspiration for you: http://yourbrainonporn.com/guys-who-gave-porn-sex-and-romance

 

[hellexfire]

That was wild.

I agree with Gracie that there is extra pressure on women because women are targeted to be beautiful from birth up. There's a constant need to be prettier and our society teaches us to not accept ourselves the way we are. We are invisibly exploited and crammed full of pictures of perfect, young bodies everywhere we go. We are being told that this is what we need to look like and when we realize we don't look like that, confidence and ego takes a hit. Men can get by on more than their bodies- their personalities, paychecks, or compassion can do the trick more often than is the reverse true.

But this is an important thing to be said- no matter what, it isn't our fault. It isn't the fault of the woman that she wasn't pretty enough, thin enough, or perfect enough. That's a manifestation of the larger society's ideals which breaks down her confidence and those two things are what need to be eradicated. Now, I'm not saying that it isn't logical to travel that path- my man keeps looking at young bodies, my body isn't good enough for him. However, your man's body isn't what is looking at young bodies so much as your man's brain is looking at young bodies and his brain will biologically tell him to pursue avenues where spreading his seed will impregnate the best. So it becomes a man's social responsibility to match his line of thinking and maturity with his age and this should be done from birth up (via mentorship, parenting, etc). But just like women aren't being groomed for confidence from birth up, men aren't being groomed for this kind of maturity from the ground up.

We are all living in a world where we are being pumped full of our poisons from every angle for the possibility of making another buck off of us and as long as we continue to play the blamegame instead of blaming the makers of the blame game then we aren't going to end this nasty cycle or the addictions created in order to mass produce enough selfishness which is the demand for the endless supply (of what never satisfies). Low confidence can be easily grouped in the latter statement. x

 

[ntg2978]

I agree with Gracie that there is extra pressure on women because women are targeted to be beautiful from birth up. There's a constant need to be prettier and our society teaches us to not accept ourselves the way we are. We are invisibly exploited and crammed full of pictures of perfect, young bodies everywhere we go. We are being told that this is what we need to look like and when we realize we don't look like that, confidence and ego takes a hit. Men can get by on more than their bodies- their personalities, paychecks, or compassion can do the trick more often than is the reverse true.


I think this is a bit one-sided.  Most men I know have had a VERY difficult time when it comes to attracting women (something that men would consider a top priority due to the way they are wired), because they can't just depend upon their looks as women do.  I think you're not considering the difficulty that most men have in regards to having to develop those qualities that you are stating in your post.  I would also go as far as to say that a lot of men start looking at porn because they feel inadequate to have a real woman, thus creating a vicious cycle.

Most men are growing up with only a mother (most dads are leaving), society at large tries to emasculate men in general by shaming them when they try to express themselves as men, shit most men these days walk like a fucking woman I'm absolutely disgusted to say...but it's the truth.

I agree that women deal with a lot of pressure to be beautiful, and I think that porn has definitely taken advantage of mens' natural desire for beauty in women.

However, men also have their own challenges, which I think are just as frustrating.  Try asking men sometime to walk up to a beautiful woman and talking to her....most will cringe or come up with some excuse as to why they cannot or why she would reject them.  Now, to make that man attractive to women, he has to deal with ALL that...he has to appear totally confident to women in order for them to even give him the time of day.  Try mustering courage to talk with someone, leading the conversation, even though you don't feel you could lead a horse to water, and feeling good about what you've accomplished, only to be greeted with no answer when you call or stood up for a date.  That man has to learn his confidence must come from himself, and not what others think about him or how others respond to him.  This is a very difficult process.  Men don't go through the same challenges physically, as women do; men go through challenges of a mental nature. 

Men and women face different challenges, but mens' are no less frustrating, I assure you.

 

[Gracie]

And I guess I state all of the above because I am a woman and this is how it seems.  Women are bombarded in all media about the importance of beauty, weight, shape etc.  And women have mental challenges as well.  But both sexes as they age must realize that physicality is not all there is in a relationship.  I do not view my husband differently because he has aged.  I am over 60 but most think I am 45 so not aging too terribly.  I want it to be different for my grand daughters.  I do not want them to think as media teaches that looks are the be all end all.  I was a single mom with 2 boys.  They are not emasculated.  They are husbands and fathers.  I raised them to be responsible for their actions.  I raised them to be hard workers.  I raised them to respect women.  Most importantly I raised them to respect themselves.   

However I see no need to say men walk like fing women.  I do not know what you are mad at. 

 

[ntg2978]

I'm not mad, just something I've seen lately, and it truly disgusts me.  Best of luck to you.  Glad to hear your sons are doing well.