My Turn to Start 10 July 2017


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There is a sequence to the development of interest.

Curiosity -> exploration -> seeking -> discovery -> application -> reinforcement

PMO is also an interest

The problem with PMO very other interests :
too much supply
too easy to obtain
rewards too much
it very quickly replaces other interests as the main focus

However, unlike other interests, PMO doesnt develop nor benefit
there are no skills learnt that can be reapplied in the real world sense
there are no tangible benefits that reward in the real world, like status or property
there are not social benefits the promote recognition and association.
furthermore, there are not relationship benefits with the P performers.
Thinking further, do we even want a relationship with any of them?

What kind of people interests you?
intelligence, personality, positivity are usually my priorities.
Few of the P performers exhibit any of these.
In the real world sense, I would probably not be attracted to them other than physicality

Recall that the interest cycle includes reinforcement.
Therefore we will reinforce some bad habits.
More seriously, we will reinforce within ourselves MISALIGNMENT

Bad habits:
seeing people as objects
spending huge amount of time on unproductive activities

developing interest in certain groups of people we would not be interested in real life
developling behaviors not supportive of developing long term self development and improvement.
investing precious time in areas to actuall DOES NOT reward us in the real sense.


Respected Member
To be clear, I also get inclinations to take a peak at P during down times.
I'm not sure if it's a force of old habits or deep seated cravings.

But I see it as not different from
Reaching for a coffee when sleepy
Reaching for a Mars bar
Reaching for a pack of chips at Netflix.

What is different is how I respond now.
Like lapses, I would recognize it as a signal telling me that (no, not that I crave P) I'm bored and have little achievements to be recognized for.

Yes. I'm bored.
I have free time
I want some kicks.

So what should I do?
Take this "motivation" and go do something of real interest and benefit to me.
Like read a book


Respected Member

What did you learn the last time you lapsed?
That sequence of events, from before you reached for your phone/computer to the aftermath.

Multiple steps happened from start to finish.
Multiple emotions and thoughts also happened within that period.

Slow yourself down and explore your senses. Keep asking why and what.
Get to know yourself better.

That way the next time just as craving is arising, you can step in early and decide... Hey it's happening again, what should I do and what is the price if I didn't stop.

Lapses are lesson time!
Take the time to understand better so we can be better at controlling ourselves.
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Respected Member

1. Pervasive negative self talk
2. Full of doubts
3. Self centeredness
4. Needy and demanding
5. Entitled behavior

These are the worst.
Worst because they are subconscious and totally involuntary.

Just one lapse can really make me a pathetic and unlikable person for 2 weeks. An unproductive and unhappy 2 weeks. Absolutely horrible and totally not worth the few minutes of lost of control.


Respected Member

Fantasy extends further than relationship with P models.

Fantasy thinking is pervasive across all aspect of life, and is made worst by the fact that a delusional person doesn't know how deluded he is.

Examples following P relational delusions:
Thinking everyone like you
Thinking you are always forgiven
Thinking you will be success no matter what, even without effort
Thinking the world is an easy place to conquer
Thinking all women are objects and interested in you, and wants more to do with you than them just being polite and courteous
Thinking you'll be rich soon and everyone will be attracted to you without you making any effort.

In P we find conquest of others.
In reality, we find neither conquest of others nor self.
We find ourselves horribly misaligned in perception and expectation, and are constantly struggling to make sense what is real and what is imagined.

It is only after several months or years of coming out this addiction will we only begin to realize so many years and opportunities lost because we were completely in a haze of delusion and fantasy.
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Respected Member

The first door is small and pathway dark.
The last door is large and the room is very bright and colorful.
By the time we get to the last door it is very difficult to get away.
Don't get ourselves near the last door.

this first door is picking up the phone.
The second door is turning the phone on
The third door is opening the browser
The fourth door is entering the site
The fifth door is selecting the performer

5 steps to failure.
Learn to stop at step 1


Respected Member

objectification not only focuses only on the physical aspects, it also paints them in perfect light, and ignores all human issues about them, including problematic attitudes and behaviors.

When practiced too frequently, we carry this behavior into real world life, and learned only to see people as we imagine them to be.

The problem happens when we either don't see their real nature, or amplify traits about them that we don't like. Ultimately we erroneously shift preference and treatment based on looks and beliefs, not inherent nature and values.

Following the post on delusion, reboot is necessary for correct observation and appreciation of the real world


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RECOGNIZE. The doors, dangers and delusions
REFUSE. The wrong actions, behaviors, cravings and desires
REPLACE. With honorable, self benefiting activities and goals
RESTORE. Correct beliefs, views and practices
RESURRECT. Spirit, confidence and esteem
RETURN. Help society so that others may also benefit


Respected Member

In the grand scheme, certain things far outweigh others.
The assessment is very simple. What can be done without, and what can't be.

Those that can be done without, drop 'em.
Life is short and demanding. Whatever that does not benefit greatly must be discarded quickly, because it not only takes up current time and space, it also holds back future gains that require the use of current time and space.

PMO, virtual imaginary relationship and aimless surfing does nothing to benefit tomorrow. Let them go.


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Respected Member

The biggest reboot benefit is the return to, and the restoration with, self.

PMO is all about falsehood
False relationships
False beliefs
False interpretation
False realities
It clouds our real personality
It pulls us away from all our goals and aspirations
It blocks us from a real relationship with the world and with ourselves.

Overtime we don't know what is real, who we are, what is important.

Coming out of PMO is like birth, or an awakening halfway through a dream (nightmare).
We are confused, scared and uncertain.

But just the same, given time, we begin to gain awareness again.
And adapt.
And stand on our own.
And reconnect with our individual identity.
And look beyond ourselves (and our self centeredness).
And see and reach for our goals.

This is the reboot.
This is the best thing about the reboot.
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Respected Member

I suspect I have some form of mental illness.

Seeing P as a source of comfort
OCD seeking behaviors
Very analytical. Having some difficulty understanding people.
Delusional to some extent.

Mental illness clouds judgement, just like it's hard to explain music to someone who is deaf.

I'm not sure if my condition is inborn or formed out of decades of P abuse.

Either way I need to address them:
1. Replacing comfort sources previously derived from P abuse
2. Addressing anxiety dealing w people
3. Overly simplistic view and understanding of people
4. Overly interested in others
5. Preference to categorize and objectify people
6. Disconnected with inner feelings, emotions, needs and preferences
7. Reliance on externals to comfort internal issues

I need to be more honest with myself and my conditions
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Respected Member

I am thinking more about mental illness and blindness and how that affects us in choice and understanding.

I realize I make poor choices because I was either blind to all the factors, or unwilling or untrained to see them as they are.

To correct something we are unaware of is very difficult. Moat rebooters come here becasue of PIED.
but my belief is that PIED is the least of our concerns.
What is bigger is why we turn to P in the first case, and where we will be after leaving P that begs more discovery.

This is because P is an escape from a problem. It is not and can never be a solution.
The problem remain.
Everyone's problem is different. Until we learn to face and deal with our fundamental problems, we will keep returning back to P.


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addictive choices are addictive because they are easy and they deliver very quickly, plentifully and predictively.

Drugs, cigarettes, food, porn, alcohol, gambling all exhibit these traits strongly.

But if viewed in the longer term one will find that after the addiction's "benefits" wear off, the addict will find themselves worse than before.

It is therefore beneficial for one to look at choice more completely.

If I can choose running or dieting for longer term effects, I must also look for habits or hobbies that will deliver longer term benefits over choosing P.

So when the crunch comes, and it will, and I need find something to comfort myself, the P choice due to its "benefits" will appear first, I must
1. See it's longer term costs
2. Have a suitable alternative that delivers better


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Parasite definition "someone or something that resembles a biological parasite in living off of, being dependent on, or exploiting another while giving little or nothing in return"

P performers
take our attention and focus away from our goals and ourselves
while not solving any of our day to day problems
and in the process draining our valuable and limited resources


Respected Member

Met someone boardering hoarding.
He tells me he is unable to prioritize, and sadly his home condition is a result of that.
He tells me he needs these things to make him feel secure. He focuses on the externals, and does not spend time thinking what he needs and what is beneficial for him.

I left his home feeling sad.
How does someone bear to live in a dirty messy place?
How can they not see the damage and stress they put themselves through?
How is it they cannot prioritize what is important for them?
How is it they need externals to satisfy themselves, but not internals?

I can sense his empty thoughts and confusion about my concern. He never saw his mess as a problem, and doesn't realize it's impact on his children and family.

I wonder if he has a mental defect or a result of poor upbringing.

I wonder if he can or is willing to change after understanding the impact of dirtiness and clutter.

I think about myself and my addictions and wonder if I share something similar
- blind to the problems
- blind to the impact
- needing externals to satisfy myself, feel secure, feel loved

I feel sad for him, and sad for myself. It's such a terrible place to be in, yet that's his home 24/7.

The home of my mind needs to be a clean and safe place.
I need to work harder on comforting myself internally and independently
I need to clean my mind like my home periodically and remove all trash and clutter


Respected Member

P distorts our value system
It teaches prioritizing pleasure over achievements
We erroneously learn to avoid difficulty and discipline, preferring all things easy and feeling good, but non beneficial
Consequently we have little ability for tolerance and improvement.
We make our lives worse by practicing avoidence and displeasure against challenges that can improve us.
Over time, the gaps between delusion and reality, emotion and logic, widens.
We suffer more when we cannot reconcile and make sense of our choices and outcomes.

Don't let pleasure ruin our lives.
Achievement is more important.


Respected Member

due to genetic, educational and environmental reasons, I'm a very externally based person, meaning I derive most of my thoughts, feelings, decisions and assessments externally.

It is very hard for me to arise happiness and satisfaction internally.
I need external validation.
Pleasure seeking is also a form of dependent validation.
This is very unproductive because I need another person to complement me.
I cannot be independent.
As a result, I suffer poorer personal decisions and outcomes in order to fulfil this requirement.

To overcome this shortcoming, I need to practice more internal alignment.

I am my own decision maker
I am my own evaluator
I am my own judge
I am my own supporter

I need to answer to myself
Only then I can truly be myself

To this end, blogging and reviewing is important.
I list down my goals, work on them, come back to them, and deliver equitable recognition and reward.
I need to be my own client, audience, paymaster and supporter.
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Respected Member

continuing my study of hoarding to help my friend, I find information that may be helpful in understanding our P addiction condition too.

Abnormal attachment to objects beyond the norm
Insecurities & Confidence issue
Poor Impulse control, indecisive, procrastinate
Emotional not logical decision making
Problem solving issues
Joy in collections, external attachment and dependencies
Difficulty to let go

Abnormal attachment to strangers beyond the norm
Insecurities & confidence issue
Poor Impulse control
Emotional not logical decision making
Problem solving issues
Joy in collections, external attachment and dependencies
Difficulty to let go

Some of us might have 1000s upon 1000s of P material in hard drives and magazines.

It's not quite OCD because that is born more out of fear and adversion than desire

There is possibly a connection with ADHD due to poor impulse control and high emotionally overide.

I'm not sure yet is it
a genetic predisposition,
An upbringing issue
A social challenge
A learning issue
But it exists becasue we are naturally imperfect and flawed.

Not all hoarders can recover
Not all hoarders are poor and desperate. There are many rich and successful people who have great shame with this affliction.

Generally the hoarder CBT recovery over many months covers the following 4 areas:
1. Problem solving
2. Hypothesis generation
3. Procedure learning
4. Abstract thinking
One can see that the recovery attempts to teach skills to better manage emotions as well as improve conceptualizing and solutioning.

Given that hoarding and P addiction share many commonalities, it's possible than that the treatment for hoarding could also be applied with P addiction.

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Respected Member

I don't believe P addiction happens in isolation. There are propensity for addiction to these varient, vs other forms of addiction.

Main characteristics
1. Attraction to humans
2. Imaginary perfections
3. Avoidance of challenges
4. Emotional stimulant
5. Interaction and challenge free


Respected Member

We carry an idealization of reality
it obviously doesnt go as planned
stress from mismatch builds and drives us to seek release
we find release through PMO (ideal state) rather than rerationalization (reality)
gaps were not resolved, issues not solved, we remain in our false ideals
we continue to be unhappy while PMO continues to help perpetuate our false beliefs

The correct cycle requires responsibility, accountibility, reflection, feedback, adjustment and patience.

In PMO there is no reflection and feedback.
without them, there is no correction

Moreover, there is no accountibility
therefore there is no correction.