The importance of a "hot female body" for "good sex"

[SlaveToRighteousness]

Up until last year when I first started breaking my PMO addiction, I had always thought that the key to good sex was physical attraction and ?hot? bodies. In particular, I had always thought that if I didn?t find a woman?s body to be attractive, I wouldn?t be able to enjoy having sex with her, and if I did find a woman?s body attractive, I would enjoy having sex with her. It was pretty much that black and white. (NOTE: I have only had sex with one woman in my life). Among other things, this mentality led me to be constantly on the lookout for hot female bodies (whether in person or in photographs/videos) that I could fantasize about during masturbation or during actual sex with my wife.

Long story short, I now believe that the secret to good sex is primarily about a variety of things other than body parts, including communication, friendship, respect, commitment, and so on. This has been a very important change in my mentality.

HOWEVER: This post is about some lingering issues that I still deal with from time to time in relation to the importance of physical attraction and physical fitness. My wife is in better-than-average condition for a 45-year old woman, and people routinely think that she is in her late 20s or early 30s. They are literally amazed when she tells them her real age. But those people don?t see everything that I see. They don?t see her eating some combination of ice cream and candy and chips and other junk food on a daily basis, and they don?t see the fat that gets stored on her butt and midsection. In my view, while she could certainly look much much worse, I also feel that she could look better, if she were to limit her intake of junk food and to replace it with healthier food options. In addition to thinking about her current appearance, I also worry about how she will age, both in terms of appearance as well as overall health.

I used to be vocally critical of her sweet tooth, and while I am better than I used to be, I still make comments from time to time that she does not appreciate. I used to believe that I could change her behavior by making such comments, but I have finally realized the folly of that line of thinking. For the past few weeks, I have made a point to say absolutely nothing negative or critical about what she eats or about her less-than-perfect body. This has been difficult for me, in part because what I say is usually pretty logical and because I worry that if I don?t say anything, she won?t know that I want her to change and thus won?t have any incentive to change.

Since I?ve stopped making comments, she has (ironically) started commenting about how needs to lose weight, and how eating all of the ice cream that she ate during our recent vacation probably wasn?t such a good idea after all. She has been Googling a 2-week weight loss program, which I don?t honestly expect her to stick to very closely. But it?s nice that she at least seems to recognize that she has gained weight (in unflattering parts of her body) and that I haven?t been making that up.

Over the past few weeks as I have stopped making comments on her eating, I have realized that I would love reach a point where my attraction to her and my commitment to our marriage was completely unrelated to her physical appearance. I?m not sure if that?s possible, but it seems like a worthwhile goal. I?ve made a lot of progress over the past year-plus, and her weight gain hasn?t prevented us from having the best sex of our marriage. But there?s still a part of me that feels disrespected when she prioritizes her taste buds over trying to stay in good shape?

Does anyone have any thoughts on this issue? Am I a jerk for wanting my wife to stay thin? Should I not care at all about her body?

 

[Gracie]

From reading your posts, you have been saying that this is great sex with your wife, correct?  So what is the importance of her reaching a certain appearance?  Is she morbidly obese where she could drop dead?  And health wise being a tad overweight is an advantage as you age.  Has your body changed over the years?  Unfortunately as women age and the hormones change the weight thing becomes a battle.  And I guess women are not as visual as men.  But if this is your beloved, think of it this way, what if her breasts were removed because of cancer?  What if she was disfigured in a car wreck?  What if her skin was burned?  What if she had a colostomy bag?  Would she still be the woman you want?

I know that there was a study done and in married couples, if the man gets sick the marriage lasts, if the woman gets sick it is at huge risk of ending. I guess in my opinion a little weight is not such a big deal.

 

[SO Reboot Partner]

Over the past few weeks as I have stopped making comments on her eating, I have realized that I would love reach a point where my attraction to her and my commitment to our marriage was completely unrelated to her physical appearance. I?m not sure if that?s possible, but it seems like a worthwhile goal. I?ve made a lot of progress over the past year-plus, and her weight gain hasn?t prevented us from having the best sex of our marriage. But there?s still a part of me that feels disrespected when she prioritizes her taste buds over trying to stay in good shape?for me [SIC]

Does anyone have any thoughts on this issue? Am I a jerk for wanting my wife to stay thin? Should I not care at all about her body?

P images don't age, get fat or sag. Memories don't either. Yet we are ironically blind to the changes in our own appearance and tone deaf to our own satirical expressions of want.

What if I were to ask: Am I a jerk for wanting my husband to have the same fantastic abs (shark teeth) that he had when we first met? Or the same raging erections? Or maybe hairline and eyesight? Less nose hair, ear hairs, old man eyebrows or weird age spots? That would be nice because I feel disrespected that he's gotten older, doesn't wear the trim cut shirts anymore, has some balding ah-hem thinning and generally doesn't look like the twenty something that caught my eye. I respect him because I haven't changed not one bit, he knew what I liked when I met him. My preferences have remained objectively the same and not matured. HE should respect that.

Obviously my "loving eyes" have matured with his body, but I'm trying to illustrate how inane and immature the argument is to elevate our own vanity in a relationship where time passes and we change.

Back to your question - are you a jerk? I think you're human. I think you have some emotional maturity to address. Why are you so jealous of ice cream?

 

[SlaveToRighteousness]

My brain has always distinguished between "things we can control" and "things we cannot control". I don't begrudge her the wrinkles and gray hairs and other uncontrollable effects of aging, but I feel like diet and exercise are things that she has control over, and so it has bothered me when she doesn't eat right or exercise. (As an aside, I put more effort into eating healthy and to exercise than she does, so I have had the attitude that "If I am willing to put in the effort, she should be too.")

But the bottom line is that this attitude has done more harm than good. Being critical of her doesn't make her want to change, and it makes me feel worse about her than I want to feel. So rather than trying to change her behavior, I am trying to change my own attitude.

 

[OldHornyGuy]

I do sympathize with you STR.  In my first marriage, when I had only had a small number of sexual partners (before, not during!) I thought appearance was very important.  Thought a "hot babe" would get me off better, especially after P came into my life.  After my second divorce, I started trying to sow my wild oats (better late than never!) and was pretty disappointed.

Appearance just doesn't matter.  It really just doesn't.  So, I am trying to rewire myself to get over that, I see it as part of the recovery from porn.

But I am very concerned for you, as I feel your feeling "critical" of her appearance is really the tip of the iceberg for something more. That you are actually critical of her in some way, that you feel she lacks something in general. 

When my first marriage hit the rocks I found myself extremely critical of my ex's appearance.  Noticed every bump of cellulite, etc.  Oh, it was horrible!  But then when I remarried, it came to my attention that my new wife was exactly the same dress size as my ex.  But I was extremely attracted to her! It was all about my reaction to her, not how she really looked.

I think you should look carefully what is really bothering you and take care of that.  You say other people find her very attractive, what is keeping you from seeing her that way?  I am pretty sure it is not the way she looks!

Peace and Stay Connected!

 

[Rainiegirl]

This realy bothers me. Women are taught by society that their most important value is their looks. We have to look perfect at all times even if it means sacrificing our health and emotional well being. If a woman is 20lbs overweight it can affect the way she is treated and viewed by others. If a man puts on an extra 20lbs no one cares.
As a mother of three children my body is far from perfect. I don't have the free time nessary to work out and even if I did it would mean that instead of relaxing after a hard day I would have to waste energy at a gym just to please someone else! This would be compleatly unfair. If my partner started making comments about how I could change my body for him it would make me feel horrible. If it continued I would probaly end up leaving the relationship. Comments like these are damaging to a persons self esteem and are abusive.
Appearances change. No one can be perfect forever. If such a superficial thing holds so much importance to you, you will forever be disappointed. I would never try to make my partner loose weight unless it caused a health problem. His feelings and emotions are more important than his looks.

 

[SO Reboot Partner]

My brain has always distinguished between "things we can control" and "things we cannot control". I don't begrudge her the wrinkles and gray hairs and other uncontrollable effects of aging, but I feel like diet and exercise are things that she has control over, and so it has bothered me when she doesn't eat right or exercise. (As an aside, I put more effort into eating healthy and to exercise than she does, so I have had the attitude that "If I am willing to put in the effort, she should be too.")

But the bottom line is that this attitude has done more harm than good. Being critical of her doesn't make her want to change, and it makes me feel worse about her than I want to feel. So rather than trying to change her behavior, I am trying to change my own attitude.

It is fantastic that you recognize that the attitude is hazardous, even if we can't agree on the validity of the logic. (It is a tough sell, STR.)

I can't help but think coming back from vacation, and all the stimulus that brings, that this might be a self-made "set up" for a stumble. By that I mean we can criticize and rationalize ourselves into some imaginary slight or lack of regard to justify returning to bad habits. The brain is a tricky little trixer sometimes.

I have noticed my husband will make wildly inane criticisms when he's fighting the pull of PMO. He wants a reason and he wants me to validate or legitimize (indirectly and unaware) the slip up so he doesn't feel guilty. I would like to take a fire hose to this behavior.

I think it is good you opened yourself up to this discussion and are taking positive steps to strengthen the bond with your wife.

My favorite flavor is Ben&Jerry's Karamel Sutra. I don't get it very often, but when I do - I don't share.

 

[SlaveToRighteousness]

Appearance just doesn't matter.  It really just doesn't.  So, I am trying to rewire myself to get over that, I see it as part of the recovery from porn.

I agree: I think it's a huge part of recovery. Porn tells us that good sex is all about appearance, which is a lie that too many of us have believed for too long.

But I am very concerned for you, as I feel your feeling "critical" of her appearance is really the tip of the iceberg for something more. That you are actually critical of her in some way, that you feel she lacks something in general. 

Maybe. If so, the underlying issue might be what I see as a lack of discipline or a short-sighted decision-making process that prioritizes short-term taste bud considerations over long-term health and fitness considerations. I am the type of person who likes to make short-term sacrifices for long-term payoffs (including in the area of food), whereas my wife wants to eat whatever she's in the mood to eat with no thought of what her body actually needs to feel good and function properly.

You say other people find her very attractive, what is keeping you from seeing her that way?

It's a good question that I should spend some time thinking about. It's not that I don't find her at all attractive, but I definitely have a tendency (some times) to focus on the flaws rather than on the things that I like about her. Porn trains us to think that women shouldn't have flaws...

 

[SlaveToRighteousness]

If my partner started making comments about how I could change my body for him it would make me feel horrible. If it continued I would probaly end up leaving the relationship. Comments like these are damaging to a persons self esteem and are abusive.

It's useful to hear a female say this. Thanks for sharing. I think my wife probably feels the same way you do.

 

[SlaveToRighteousness]

I can't help but think coming back from vacation, and all the stimulus that brings, that this might be a self-made "set up" for a stumble. By that I mean we can criticize and rationalize ourselves into some imaginary slight or lack of regard to justify returning to bad habits. The brain is a tricky little trixer sometimes.

There's probably something to that. Our relationship is always thrown off a bit when we're on vacation, which usually means that I don't feel as close to her by the end of the vacation as I did before we left.

 

[Brooklyn Jerry]

  STR, you started a great thread about appearance. My late wife used to watch her weight, probably more to please me than anything else. She gained some weight during her pregnancies, but took it off both times. Of course as she got older things changed,but she always looked good dressed.I did get her pissed once when she wore a shirt that exposed some belly and I made a comment.
  Then she got cancer, and at the end of her life she was down to 88 lbs. I remember crying once when I saw how thin her legs got and how bony her hips became.
  She is gone almost 5 years and I began dating a widow, she is what I call chunky. Sometimes I feel guilty when I think back about the time my wife spent in the gym to appease me.
  I am about the same weight as I was when I got married give or take 20 lbs, but try to keep in shape.  I would say appreciate what you have. And try your best to keep the women that loves you happy. I sure began getting addicted to Internet porn after my wife passed away, but even when I had a new willing sex partner, I would view porn almost daily. Sometime a BBW, sometimes mature or a combination of both. Then onto big breasts, skinny girls and tiny boobs. I can honestly saw in my experience although somewhat limited, a hot body is not required, it's all in or heads.
     

 

[Viper]

What if I were to ask: Am I a jerk for wanting my husband to have the same fantastic abs (shark teeth) that he had when we first met? Or the same raging erections? Or maybe hairline and eyesight? Less nose hair, ear hairs, old man eyebrows or weird age spots? That would be nice because I feel disrespected that he's gotten older, doesn't wear the trim cut shirts anymore, has some balding ah-hem thinning and generally doesn't look like the twenty something that caught my eye.

;D

 

[Married with children]

This was a rather one sided debate. Keeping fit is not a bad thing. A little exercise will give you a lot more energy that sitting in front of the TV eating chocolate.

I think a realationship should try to maintain some sort of balance. If one side is putting an effort into keeping healthy and fit so should the other. Both for oneself, the marriage and the kids.

Sickness and disaster can strike, but that is another debate. If anything keeping fit will reduce chances for sickness.

One word of advice, criticism will not work. Her motivation must come from herself. Not unlike you own process. When it does, supply with large amounts of positive reinforcement. Crash diets does not work. A combination of eating a little healthier and increased physical activity does. It is not fast, but slowly the body will adapt. I have done this together with my wife, and it's great!

 

[Gracie]

But the title of this thread is "hot female body"  for "good sex"  That doe not imply healthy or excercised.  My interpretation of that statement is: In order to have good sex, then the female involved must have a hot body.

Then we must look at that sometimes once we women are done having babies, even with excercise, that stretched out baby belly does not go away.  Even with excercise, we will have some cellulite on our legs.  Even working out we can encounter physical limitation that do not permit us to become buff.  I for one have muscles in my arm that randomly contract.  Excercise increases this happening, even light stretches can trigger a contraction.  I had great arms until this happened.  My knees due to working in factories cannot take a lot of excercise due to overuse.  So I cannot "go for the gold".

You chose this women forever, better or worse, richer, poorer etc.  Love her.  You will be surprised if you take away all expectations and just love her the way you did when you chose her, how much better everything is.  Does she know and feel you value her above everything and everyone else?  Show her you do without expectation.

 

[OldHornyGuy]

I have been thinking about this thread a lot.  It seems to me that if appearance, pretty much by itself, is the criteria to have "good sex" then "good sex" is really just masturbation.  I mean, really, if you are just looking at her and getting off (pardon my French there) it's not really intimacy, it really is just masturbation.

Part of this whole "hot babe" thing came out of the pick up artist "literature" and even they are now saying that looks are not everything, or even anything!  For example, when first divorced, I went to a club here in town and yes, there were some "hot babes" there.  Drunk, always drunk.  One girl I talked to said she was literally held hostage by her former boyfriend.  Yes, she has an amazing body.  Not so sure that sex with her would be so great.  The PUAs have realized this as well and are using more social networking to find women they would actually like to be with, rather than GTF (I am sure you can figure out the abbreviation I just made up.)

Another avenue is that pretty much whenever I have read the stories of porn stars, it is pretty pathetic really.  Drugs, low self esteem, abuse and so on.  Once in a great while you read that someone has this amazing sex drive, but not usually.  Usually its something like they wanted attention and wanted to be an actress, but after a series of bad things ended up in porn.  Again, not someone we would really want to spend a lot of time with!

We all now know that just masturbating is empty and warps our view of the world and the same is true with just jumping "hot babes."

One last add...my SO says that she lost 50 pounds before I met her -- and yes, she looks great.  But would she really be a different person if she hadn't lost the weight?  OK, maybe yes, she has more confidence now, but it can be argued that she only feels that way because she is meeting some artificial society standard. 

I think we as people have to learn to connect with other people not just be looking for visual stimulation.

 

[SlaveToRighteousness]

I heard a joke when I was a kid that went something like this:

Q: What do riding a motorcycle and having sex with a fat girl have in common?
A: They're both fun until someone sees you.

While the joke was certainly not intended to convey any kind of wisdom, it's interesting to think about the idea that having sex with a person that might be considered to be unattractive according to "society's" standards can be a satisfying experience, unless and until you allow a concern for society's judgment to ruin your fun. For most of my life, I thought poorly about men that I saw with women who didn't meet my standards for being attractive. I thought that such men must be desperate, or have low standards, or must have something wrong with them. Along these same lines, I never wanted to be seen with a woman that I didn't think was attractive, for fear that other people would think poorly of me as well.

Looking back on this, I can see now that my desire for my female partner to be attractive (according to societal standards) stemmed not only from wanting to be "turned on" by her appearance, but also from not wanting to be ridiculed or otherwise looked down upon by other people if I was with a woman that wasn't generally considered to be attractive. It is much better, of course, to not care at all about what other people think...

 

[Married with children]

A bit back and forth here If I should stay on topic I would clearly say no. The 'hot female body' might be important for initial attraction for most guys, but certainly is not that important for the sex itself. Here the attitude and ability to enjoy and have fun with it is much more important.

As life goes on ' what others thinks' should have less and less importance.

 

[SO Reboot Partner]

I'm not reading anything about how a partner moves being an indicator of good sex. Movement requires participation, not just observation. I'll take a husky dancer any day over a stiff washboard, boom-boom.

It makes me kinda sad that a woman's appearance can have such a huge impact on a man's ego and his standing with other men. That is really what we are talking about here, right? Ego?

 

[Gracie]

I would say bingo!  The expectation is that all women remain a 19 year old "10" (look at all the lotions, potions, creams surgery etc) and that all men no matter what age, how they look, or how they act are entitled to a 19 year old "10".  Otherwise looks would not be important.  Which is why women then fall into the conundrum of "if only I looked prettier" to explain a lot of failings in their lives.

Just love us wrinkled and krinkled and squishy with laugh lines and saggy skin.  Our grandkids would not replace us with anyone else.  Why should our husbands wish we were different?  Or any other man for that matter. 

 

[OldHornyGuy]

Couldn't agree more Gracie.  During my "single time" I have seen a number of women that I thought were way to "hot" for me.  Younger and definitely prettier.  Now, some of them have boyfriends -- and for the most part they are older and heavier than me.  Women have it right on that end, and I hope that some day we can help you get it right on the other end.

Yes, a healthy appearance is somewhat important to me.  That is to say that someone doesn't look like they don't care either in hygiene or health (not big smokers...).  Other than that, I say, give it a try, intelligence, humor, caring and even sexual performance comes in all kinds of packages (male and female!) and you just don't know until you give it a try.

I am trying very, very hard to be "appearance neutral."