quit for good

GBS

Well-Known Member
Hi @joepanic . I promise you I understand. We all understand. My wife drove me bonkers too. They all do. And we drive them mad as well. I could however never say my wife drove me to porn. I chose porn when I could have chosen any number of other things - like talking things through. And that’s not always possible either, but I can’t in all conscience say she drove me to porn. That one is on me. I am not trying to be argumentative, just saying what I think is something crucial. Respect.
 

Gracie

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
@joepanic I hope you are doing okay. That was a huge revelation for you. In spite of our differing views, I do worry about you when you are away. All of us are here to help you.
 

joepanic

Well-Known Member
Thanks for chiming in guys

I will say one thing and that's I am the better communicator when it comes to my wife and I. She is set in her ways and if I poke holes in her story from time to time she will just shut down. Her way of winning an discussion is to not have that discussion take place. this allows her status quo to continue on. Gracie you probably remember a few years ago me mentioning "one just does not say "no" to my wife" We are actually seeing a marriage counsellor regarding our daughter and our differing parent styles. It should be interesting because one of us is going to be told something we don't want to hear.

Have to go for now may post again tonight

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joepanic

Well-Known Member
This is a continuation of this morning

Control is a funny thing. My wife has massive control issues most are based upon her "ego". I never thought for one minute her control issues were meant to control me in any way but I have come to the conclusion that her need for control over her entire environment is now at a point where it does affect me. We have had some problems with our 18 year old daughter who feels we destroyed her childhood This is a girl who was given pretty much everything she asked for Synchronized swimming a year long student exchange in Germany Other weekend trips to the US with her cultural dancegroup. The list could go on. But we are paying a heavy price at the moment. My wife is telling me to basically "accept the total disrespect" I am being subjected to by our daughter. 1st it was because she was afraid our daughter would commit suicide than it was till she finished highschool this year. We than sent her to Sardinia for 2 months to work as an au pair hoping she would find herself. Now she is home for 2 weeks before heading to Germany for 10 months for more work. But nothing changed. I must continue to accept the total lack of courtesy and respect for all I do. She is bound and determined to prove that she is in "control' and my wife accepts this so that none of the heat is turned on her. I am supposed to be the "rock" around here. I have seen my things damaged damage to our home insults pot shots that list goes on. But i am the bad guy around here. I am trying to change my life for the better and facing nothing but an uphill battle. A lesser man would have left a long time ago.

Fucking porn has not affected my family negatively in any way in fact it may have benefited it as it gave me an outlet to release that stress. Again my wife was not bothered by my porn use. i wonder why that is..... Perhaps because it kept me busy. Kept me quiet It was never hidden from her. Again I want to quit for my own reasons. I'm sure it could be mentioned. Well discuss it with your wife that her control issues are causing me to watch porn. But I can imagine how that conversation might go. I see the response being. Now your blaming me for your porn use blah blah blah.

Gracie it's too bad your on a one track road with how porn just destroys partners.... not "some" partners but partners. That is what frustrated me for almost 5 years. I genuinely feel you care but i don't honestly think you are qualified for to give out the advice you do to any addict. It would be interesting to hear Gabe weigh on on my story before judging me on a posting I put in the partners section and how that conversation was shut down but allowed for all to see anyway.

Oh there is so much I want to say but so much would be an "inconvenient truth" and might be a little much for some to take.

So I think I'll head up to bed and see if my wife wants to make love if not come back downstairs and listen to music and she can go to sleep.

Post often it helps me it helps you
 

GBS

Well-Known Member
Hi @joepanic . I, and I am sure others, totally respect you for what you’ve said in those last few posts. All our back/current stories are different. Some are nuanced and some are night and day different. We are all trying to be better people. Some of us have hurt our wives. That hurt probably ranges from utter devastation to meh. Some people don’t have partners and are just doing this on their own. Some have partners that know what we’re doing with porn and they accept it. I think you’re in the last category. I get your situation and respect you massively for what you’re doing. I can’t comment on your wife and her issues obviously. I get that it’s complicated.

Without sweeping this under the carpet I would just say keep going and staying off porn. You respect us (those of us with different back stories to you) and how we are also coping with huge guilt and the fall-out from the hurt we caused. And we respect that you may not have hurt your wife at all by your porn usage….you’re dealing with other issues at the same time. It’s incredibly complicated at one level. However what binds us ALL together is that we know we are doing good by giving up.

Keep going my friend.
 

joepanic

Well-Known Member
Had another couple of good days and I actually put some effort into going to bed at a reasonable hour last night. In less than a week our daughter is again out of the country for 10 months. She still wants nothing to do with me and my wife still puts up with this. Her solution is just to send her away till she is old enough to go out on her own, But to me that is not going to fix the problem It's frustrating to the point of affecting our ability to communicate. We did grow up with parents who had vastly different parenting styles and rather than meeting in the middle were going to raise our children her way and that's it. Now were seeing the results of this. Or is it because our 18 year old is her daughter from her first failed marriage which was her ex's fault of course.

Recovery from porn addiction is a very complex process. Especially when using a forum such as this. It allows for an unlimited amount of opinions and advice from an unlimited variety of sources. And it seems so much more than porn addiction by itself is going to be discussed. But it seems that discussing some of these other topics is what is needed to recover from this addiction

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joepanic

Well-Known Member
Had another couple of really good days I think I have lost count I would have to look back in my journal Maybe next time I post. I am taking control of my life from my wife and one daughter. Basically i need to spend more time out of the house. Raising 5 children just tool way too much out of me. perhaps it was because I was basically required to toe the line and raise them the way my wife saw fit. That caused me to almost burn out over the last 15 years. Too bad she doesn't have a physical job than she might have understood and perhaps I might not have been in this mess so long Its not "all about communication" its also about understanding and empathy .... Something most humans lack in 2022

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joepanic

Well-Known Member
Things still going well I am basically trying to pick up my life from where it went sideways due to porn(which of course I have come to the conclusion was mostly caused by outside factors) just wished it didn't take 30 years to figure out. But what's done is done. Now its my turn. Only problem is most people were used to getting their own way with me because porn caused me to be weak without a much confidence so I was easy to manipulate and control. So now that they can't do that its going to take some adjustments. I must tread slowly.

Cheers

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joepanic

Well-Known Member
I think its day 70 or so I sort of lost count a few weeks ago. I'm feeling pretty good these days and have come to the conclusion that for me porn is defined as watching someone have sex weather solo or as a couple or group or whatever genre you can conjure up. This I know longer do. As for the definition of p-subs I feel that is something different for everyone. it's affects on everyone can also be different. I don't consider seeing a girl in a bikini on a screen or in a sports magazine or anywhere else to be a part of my problem. It does not lead me to seeking out actual porn or pmo ing or whatever else. It's just there I enjoy the moment and move on. In other words something like that does not stop me from going and practicing bass or piano or mowing the lawn or exercising. With that being said I did spend my 3rd and final day on a nude beach enjoying the sun and sand. Quite the eclectic group of people one group running a bbq selling burgers and such a small yacht playing reggae music. The scene is not so much about looking at nude bodies(to me that has nothing to do with sex or porn anyway) its more to do with freedom and being non judgemental. I am ever so slowly getting back to where i wanted to be in life. I didn't come home from the beach all horny expecting to bang my wife(we probably would have but were very busy preparing to take our daughter to the airport today as she is leaving to work in Europe for a year) Quite frankly I think a lot of women wear bikini's of sorts to show the masses how sexy they can be. On a nude beach you dont get that vibe as they are people of every shape size and age. They are not looking to impress anyone.

Cheers

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Aeodh Dan

Active Member
Ultimately this journey is about you, or me, or whoever is battling this addiction, which ultimately is a way to cope with life.
Other people will always just do what they do, including family members. If I am truly centered and rock solid about my own identity, it doesn't matter whether I am married, single or whatever. I think learning to just be myself no matter how it affects others is the real lesson here. If other people want to act out, well, let them, that's their problem.
Obviously when there are small dependent children involved, that's different, in that case what is best for them matters, but for most of us older guys, we are dealing with adults now, adult children who have to find their own way...mine included.
It's not about being "selfish", it's about the journey that we all must take individually, I am only responsible for my own actions.
 

joepanic

Well-Known Member
I know I haven't been on here in almost a week life is quite busy as usual. But I am staying off porn. Most of time I spend working on staying off and working to fix my addiction is really spent in trying to fix the reasons I actually act out and the same frustrations keep coming up. And more and more it seems that frustration is my wife. I'm beginning to wonder if to her sex is a game now and always was. I can crawl into bed with her and her foot will tease mine and I really don't know what to expect because she has made it clear that she doesn't initiate sex because its just who she is. So i am left guessing. If i play along she may or may not fall asleep unless I really put some effort into showing her somehow that I am interested even though she knows I am "always interested" Again I have to send out the clear signals. If I do 2 things may happen. After who knows how long she will finally decide it's time to do it. At this point sometimes I don't even know if I want to or not because I have been frustrated over the who guessing thing. So it may or may not happen 2 I might not play along and she automatically takes this as I am not interested and just fall asleep and obviously well its me that rejected her . My reason for not plying along is that I no longer want to try and figure out what her intentions are. At this point I just quietly get up and go watch tv or listen to music go and surf porn. Of course that 3rd option is off the table for the moment. I will say this though. Because i am a man... ladies in my world to be honest porn is a lot less complicated. With all that being said I often wonder if this is what went wrong in her first marriage. or on the other hand is she like this because her 1st husband treated her like crap and now all men are going to pay the price. All I know is I have always shot straight from the hip. If I am up to having sex i come right out and say it. I do not make her guess. Perhaps you are all coming to the conclusion that this took place again this evening. If you are you are correct. In a few weeks we have an appointment with a family therapist/councillor. I am honestly wondering if going forward with this "therapy" or whatever you want to call it will either fix or break our marriage completely because i am actually thinking of bringing this up and of course she is going to have to defend herself against it. Sound harsh indeed but put yourself in my shoes.

I know i seem to discuss the issues in my marriage a lot here but as long as I am staying off porn that's all that matters. Staying off porn is almost easy when I am not feeling frustrated. Quite frankly I am coming to the point where I don't even know if I am interested in having sex with my wife anymore. too complicated at times. Playing music is starting to become a close 2nd to making love. I wonder if she would head to a forum somewhere and complain that she is being neglected.

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GBS

Well-Known Member
Hi @joepanic . Good candour in your journal. You are vulnerable and honest. All the hallmarks of a man ready to fix ALL of this. Not just the porn. Obviously there are some simple solutions that may not be solutions - like sit down very calmly and lovingly unpack all the issues. I am doing this with my wife. It is painful but way better than having stuff unsaid and eating away at the relationship. I have to believe that’s a lot easier said than done, right? Whatever happens you will know inside that you are a better man for giving up porn and being honest.

Keep gpoing, keep writing. You inspire me.
 

joepanic

Well-Known Member
Thanks for responding GBS. I actually discussed some of these things with my wife over the years but she says it is who she is. It really is about her need for total control over her environment. This is something I am hoping to touch on when we visit the therapist.

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Sammyjo

Member
I am honestly wondering if going forward with this "therapy" or whatever you want to call it will either fix or break our marriage completely because i am actually thinking of bringing this up and of course she is going to have to defend herself against it. Sound harsh indeed but put yourself in my shoes.
Hey Joepanic, unsolicited opinion - communication is key! That "make or break" place is not a comfortable place to be, but if you continue on this path where you seem pretty unhappy where will it end up? Isn't it worth the discussion? Also, are the control issues being discussed in therapy? (Seems key)
 
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TakeActionNow

Respected Member
Thanks for responding GBS. I actually discussed some of these things with my wife over the years but she says it is who she is. It really is about her need for total control over her environment. This is something I am hoping to touch on when we visit the therapist.

Post often it helps me it helps you

Hi @joepanic
Marriages and relationships are complicated. People are complicated.
I can only say what helps me are
1. Not depending on my wife for my personal feel good
2. Respecting her decisions and giving her lots of space
3. Identify what make her happy and try to do as much of that without expectations of return
4. Imagine that the reason she does not do those "normal" partner activities is because she has different brain developmental as I 🤪

So far she has been happy in my presence and she happy = I'm happy (safe).

Taking a big step from what I want and identifying and doing (somewhat) what she wants has been the biggest help to our relationship. It has also made me more independent and better manage my personal needs and wellbeing.
 

joepanic

Well-Known Member
Hi @joepanic
Marriages and relationships are complicated. People are complicated.
I can only say what helps me are
1. Not depending on my wife for my personal feel good
2. Respecting her decisions and giving her lots of space
3. Identify what make her happy and try to do as much of that without expectations of return
4. Imagine that the reason she does not do those "normal" partner activities is because she has different brain developmental as I 🤪

So far she has been happy in my presence and she happy = I'm happy (safe).

Taking a big step from what I want and identifying and doing (somewhat) what she wants has been the biggest help to our relationship. It has also made me more independent and better manage my personal needs and wellbeing.
Hey TakeActionNow

Thanks for tuning in I read your list and reflected on it Sorry to have to poke holes in it but I feel the need to put some context to it, Yes it is true that relationships are complicated and communication is key. My journal is quite long and several times through out it I have stated that I have always tried open communication on the issues I have had with our marriage. In the end it only amounted to me making more concessions.
I am not sure of what exactly you mean by "not depending on your wife for your personal feel good" perhaps some details on that one. respecting of decisions and space does go both ways. I do the things that make her happy I give her the time and space to write and research (these 2 "hobbies" are extremely time consuming and addictive.... If she doesn't get to do them she gets quite grumpy) I have always made sure she had the time and space even when it encroached upon our time as a couple. As for the last point umm I guess her brain began to develop differently after we got married as compared to before we were married. Not sure how to work with that one. The standards I set before marriage are either the same today or improved. My whole life seemed to be about pleasing others or doing the will of others. This started with my parents who set very high standards which I believe slowed down my development into a man and gave me the impression that not only does the bible state that it is better to give then to receive but that everyone else I knew lived by this standard so I was taken advantage of easily perhaps my wife saw this in me

GBS and Sammyjo Thanks for also weighing in. It seems so much of my journal these days is based on fixing my relationship with my wife. Who would have ever thought that that would take the lead on a porn addiction reboot site. No the whole thought of wondering if therapy will "make or break" our marriage is not a comfortable place to be. But than why go to therapy in the 1st place than? I have issues with my wife's way of living sometimes. And the further away from our day of marriage the more difficult it has become to manage at times. She is on a path. What happens when someone else might agree that her path is not in the best interest of our marriage? I am certainly not looking for someone else to make a decision that ourt marriage will work or not but there are realities here that will have to be considered.

There is much I still want to say here but time is tight perhaps more to say tonight

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TakeActionNow

Respected Member
Hi @joepanic

I read that your marriage and your relationship with your wife is important to you. However it is more important that you see and accept things clearly as they now are, so that you may adapt and make better and more effective choices.

So
"not depending on your wife for your personal feel good"

It means the responsibility of us feeling good lies wholely on ourselves.
If they make us feel good, good.
If they don't, it doesn't matter.
Of course if they don't for a very long time, or make our life miserable, then the question isnt what more can I do, but rather, is there a higher reason I need to stay instead of leave.

And if you determine that there is, then you need to let go and adapt to your situation.
Adaptation here is key.

On
"My whole life seemed to be about pleasing others or doing the will of others. This started with my parents who set very high standards which I believe slowed down my development into a man and gave me the impression that not only does the bible state that it is better to give then to receive but that everyone else I knew lived by this standard so I was taken advantage of easily perhaps my wife saw this in me"

Whether true or not, this is a powerful statement that makes it harder for you to see the good that you have done, and puts power to others to determine your quality of life.

Another way to phrase your life might be:
"I have a good value system that is considerate and charitable, and I also recognize the importance of my personal wellbeing. I will do what I believe is true, fair and right for everyone, including myself.

Do not deprioritize yourself.
Be good and kind to yourself.
You deserve your own love, attention and care.

Let go of as much baggage as possible. If your wife is too busy with her life, then you can also be busy with yours. The best gift you can give yourself isnt someone else's company, but your own. Spending your time well will make you a happier person, and your life more meaningful. Your life isn't meant for her sole benefit, but yours and everyone you come into contact with. You have it in you to make things better.

Believe in yourself. I know you're doing good. So should you.
 
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joepanic

Well-Known Member
Just a thought to ponder on Porn addiction is an Illness and should be treated as just that.... An Illness If one can not beat that Illness on their own than it's time to call in the doctors.

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