quit for good

joepanic

Well-Known Member
Hi @joepanic

I read that your marriage and your relationship with your wife is important to you. However it is more important that you see and accept things clearly as they now are, so that you may adapt and make better and more effective choices.

So
"not depending on your wife for your personal feel good"

It means the responsibility of us feeling good lies wholely on ourselves.
If they make us feel good, good.
If they don't, it doesn't matter.
Of course if they don't for a very long time, or make our life miserable, then the question isnt what more can I do, but rather, is there a higher reason I need to stay instead of leave.

And if you determine that there is, then you need to let go and adapt to your situation.
Adaptation here is key.

On
"My whole life seemed to be about pleasing others or doing the will of others. This started with my parents who set very high standards which I believe slowed down my development into a man and gave me the impression that not only does the bible state that it is better to give then to receive but that everyone else I knew lived by this standard so I was taken advantage of easily perhaps my wife saw this in me"

Whether true or not, this is a powerful statement that makes it harder for you to see the good that you have done, and puts power to others to determine your quality of life.

Another way to phrase your life might be:
"I have a good value system that is considerate and charitable, and I also recognize the importance of my personal wellbeing. I will do what I believe is true, fair and right for everyone, including myself.

Do not deprioritize yourself.
Be good and kind to yourself.
You deserve your own love, attention and care.

Let go of as much baggage as possible. If your wife is too busy with her life, then you can also be busy with yours. The best gift you can give yourself isnt someone else's company, but your own. Spending your time well will make you a happier person, and your life more meaningful. Your life isn't meant for her sole benefit, but yours and everyone you come into contact with. You have it in you to make things better.

Believe in yourself. I know you're doing good. So should you.
Thanks for tuning in TakeactionNow

I guess I have taken my journal down a bit of a rabbit hole. or rather some of the commentary in my journal has led me to go into that rabbit hole. "Personal Feelgood" an interesting concept but not something that I really understand where your coming from. The whole post prior to your post was based on my sex life with my wife but your definition of "personal feelgood does not reference my sex life at all I guess it depends on who you ask. If I didn't want someone to help me feel good about myself I don't think I would have ever gotten married. I could have just surfed porn the rest of my life. i know I have certainly tried my best to help my wife feel good about herself over the years. In fact I believe I have put considerable effort into it in both our sex life and every other aspect of our relationship. I suppose this is all part of her need for control. The need to be wanted or needed.

Its funny you say if your wife is too busy than stay busy yourself . Sounds more like a marriage of convenience to me I would rather be in one where both make time for each other. Perhaps if we all made more time for our spouses our marriages would be stronger. At least thats what I get out of the partners views

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TakeActionNow

Respected Member
Hi @joepanic

My personal life and reboot journey might have taken me on a different path than most.

I believe most of us began here with a desire for greater intimacy and concern for pied. Sex and porn were a priority in our lives then.

My journey however lead me to discover that sex and pied were not priorities I need to solve. And that a better life exist especially when sex was not a priority.

That life exists when we're not too busy or preoccupied going after cravings, desires and wants, but instead be preoccupied with purpose, duty and needs.
Many will still say sex is a need. I however have reached a state where sex is a good to have, but not a must have. My outlook seemed to have gained a certain clarity that my personal wellbeing is not, and cannot, come from another person. And that my happiness comes solely from my independence, and harmonious living with others. I am, and can be, complete by myself.

While sex can help couples feel intimate and connected, the complex and ever changing human nature means that may not always be possible.
Body, mental, purpose, health, finance, environmental changes may lead to deprioritizing sex for something else, such as in my case.
And so the mature adult will have adapt and find other ways to fulfill themselves or each other.

"If I didn't want someone to help me feel good about myself I don't think I would have ever gotten married."
That is true. But now that you are married and faced with your current situation, what do you think you need to do to make the best of your circumstance?

"Its funny you say if your wife is too busy than stay busy yourself . Sounds more like a marriage of convenience to me"
We do make time for ourselves, but I do recognize that she has a higher need than others to be private, alone and doing her own things. That is her nature. I recognize and accept that. So I chose to adapt, be subtle, and most importantly, be patient and optimistic.

I share my thoughts with the hope of giving you a different perspective about relationships and to encourage you to focus on improving your self care independently.

For me, moving attachment away from PMO lead to moving attachment away from desires, dependency and delusions.
That lead to gaining clarity about reality and finally acceptance and adaptation to what can and cannot be.

I hope you can too.
 
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joepanic

Well-Known Member
Sheesh everyone here seems to need something different. In one sentence the some of the ladies all say they miss "sex" with their hubbies but complain that it's shame that men's number one reason for rebooting was to get over their Pied. Well one can't have it both ways now can they,

TakeActionNow I find this statement interesting coming from a rebooter. "Many will still say sex is a need. I however have reached a state where sex is a good to have, but not a must have. My outlook seemed to have gained a certain clarity that my personal wellbeing is not, and cannot, come from another person. And that my happiness comes solely from my independence, and harmonious living with others. I am, and can be, complete by myself." Put this in the partners(please see ladies) section. I wonder how the responses would be.

Ask any marriage counselor or sex therapist and you will here that it is cruel to enter into a relationship with someone where your only supposed to have sex with that person and they withhold it and your not allowed to get it somewhere else. Now I am sure I may take a beating with a wet noodle for that statement as i am an x-porn addict but the argument that porn is a form of cheating is different for everyone. In the end I am an x-porn addict who never neglected my wife and she has never considered porn use to be cheating.

If only having sex with your partner after you commit to the relationship was not a carved in stone law for the relationship than I think your arguments would hold up.

Now of course there are the times of "sickness" or "stress" and so on I completely understand these reasons. but these are not my wife's reasons

finally I never said we don't have sex I only mentioned how unbalanced I have found our sex life to be at times and how I have never been granted fair and open communication on the topic

Again I do find all this relationship talk to be somewhat interesting

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TakeActionNow

Respected Member
Hi @joepanic ,
Yeah I can understand if my views are hard to accept.
To be honest I didn't expect to discover this outcome too.
But consider some relationships where sex becomes impossible, such as medical or mental illness. What should the other partner do?

I would like to add that my outcome is also a result of my circumstances. No two relationships are the same. We have to find what works for our own.

You seemed to have a practice or belief that certain protocols need to be carried out before you can proceed. But if the other party is unwilling to partake in discussion or support, you become stuck. Does this help you? What would truly help you?


Anyway, the key point I hope you can take away is:
Our happiness depends solely upon ourselves.
 
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joepanic

Well-Known Member
Hi @joepanic ,
Yeah I can understand if my views are hard to accept.
To be honest I didn't expect to discover this outcome too.
But consider some relationships where sex becomes impossible, such as medical or mental illness. What should the other partner do?

I would like to add that my outcome is also a result of my circumstances. No two relationships are the same. We have to find what works for our own.

You seemed to have a practice or belief that certain protocols need to be carried out before you can proceed. But if the other party is unwilling to partake in discussion or support, you become stuck. Does this help you? What would truly help you?


Anyway, the key point I hope you can take away is:
Our happiness depends solely upon ourselves
Ive long since lost track of the days could be around 70 or 80 or so I just can't be bothered to go back and look doesn't seem that important at his point main thing is I am clean and have no urge to go back. Its all about analysis these days it seems. Analysis over relationships, the past, the reasons for becoming a porn addict in the 1st place and so on Quite frankly and no offence to anyone but I am waiting for the day to come when I no longer have an interest to come here. As much as I would like to help others there are certain things going on here that make it difficult for me to want to hang around. We'll see.

Ugghh TakeActionNow I fully understand the idea of illness of any sort possibly having a negative affect on one's sex life. That idea also includes PIED as to me an addiction is an illness. Much understanding is always important for any illness.

I don't believe certain "protocols" need to be carried out before I proceed. Most of what I write about is my lack of understanding of how women(mainly my wife) operate. Communication is a 2 way street. Again it will be interesting when we add a 3rd person to the conversation next week.

Lets be honest here I stand alone here with my views on a "partners" role in the life of a porn or ex porn addict. As well as my views on how to conduct a reboot. My opinion is as valid as the next persons opinion is.

It still seems to me that when I finally was able to grow a set of balls and defend my position, not wallow in shame, constantly express guilt, and so on I was able to concentrate on breaking my addiction once and for all.

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Gracie

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
What attracts you to your wife? What is the glue that holds you together right now? All the sames and differences aside, the daughter, the differences in sex drive, your feeling alone. You stay. You care.
 

joepanic

Well-Known Member
What attracts you to your wife? What is the glue that holds you together right now? All the sames and differences aside, the daughter, the differences in sex drive, your feeling alone. You stay. You care.

What attracts me to my wife? Well many things and "not in any particular order". There is of course the physical attraction. The fact that we love to travel together. We like breakfast on the patio on Sunday mornings while the kids are still sleeping. The list could go on.

I don't think I really said a difference in our sex drive so much is why do I have to ask for it. To me it falls under the "control issue" department. something she has always admitted having. I accept it may not always like it. Find it somewhat frustrating? of course. But love gets us through.

Yes sometimes I do feel somewhat alone. Every relationship has its up's and downs. It's strong periods and its weak periods. She has her reasons for carrying on like she does and I have mine for carrying on the way I do. Communication is not always great buts just the way it is sometimes. It does not mean that love between us can not exist. We take each other for who we are.

That's the glue that holds us together Its too bad more here can't find that same glue. Watching porn is not the only crime that happens in a relationship

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joepanic

Well-Known Member
I don't understand it I found it so much easier staying away from porn when I wasnt coming to this place and being painted with the same brush as every other porn addict(please see "man") We are told how important it is to read their stories but to me it's just a man bashing left find every weakness and exploit it opportunity. Can't imagine that's how they treat meth junkies in detox and I am pretty sure our 90 days here is a detox. If anyone knows a good forum without partners be sure to let me know

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Beautiful1973

Active Member
Gosh @joepanic I hope you don’t think I’ve done any ‘man’ bashing on here, I love my man, and look for support on here from you guys to try and understand why this addiction causes him to push me away.
I think I’ve been a really supportive woman/partner to a lot of the guys on here and would never tar everyone with the same brush.
I hope some time away gives you the opportunity to focus on your journey.
 

Blondie

Respected Member
Hey Joe, I don't fully understand what happened to you here, but whatever it was, this opinion makes no sense to me. No one forces you to read those stories over there on that side of the forum, just as no one makes them (the ladies) read yours or mine over here. We're all here to get over porn, all our differences aside. Yes I don't fully understand everything over there, for multiply reasons, for one I'm not a partner of a porn user, and two, I'm not a woman, but that's okay. Furthermore, I'm pretty sure they don't always agree with me or my philosophizing about the natures of men and women etc., but that's their prerogative and I'm okay with that. To each their own.

I don't think it's necessarily man bashing, it's just how they see the world, especially at this moment in time after they've learned the truth, which is hard not to blame them. I have definitely learned some things reading over there this last year which is great, and the few women I've interacted with seem to be beautiful human beings. Yes, you and I have a different story in the sense that we never hid porn from our partner or wife, nor did they think porn was a sin or cheating, so our stories are a little different - good for us! But isn't that a good thing? Furthermore, at least for myself, I also never stopped having sex with my lady nor stopped talking or flirting with her, nor did I ever check out women in front of her, or zone out emotionally for 10 or 20 years. Thus, I literally have no clue how someone could do that to their woman (or anyone for that matter!), so I have a real hard time reading over there sometimes. Often, while reading, I want to screem "Wait a minute, I didn't do that to my girl, nor would I ever do that! Don't put me in that category!" Afterwards however, I have to remind myself, that many partners HAVE done that, and if someone had done that to me, I'd be fucking pissed off too, and might say somethings that could be described as "misogynistic". It is what it is. 🤷‍♂️

To me, getting over porn is considerably more important than arguing over the little details. Life's too short to be caught up in all our differences.

I wish you the best.
 

joepanic

Well-Known Member
Gosh @joepanic I hope you don’t think I’ve done any ‘man’ bashing on here, I love my man, and look for support on here from you guys to try and understand why this addiction causes him to push me away.
I think I’ve been a really supportive woman/partner to a lot of the guys on here and would never tar everyone with the same brush.
I hope some time away gives you the opportunity to focus on your journey.
Thanks for responding I suppose I was generalizing with my statement but in a funny way that is the impression I get from "most" partners. I haven't yet had the opportunity to read your personal journal so can't quite judge your character. I will do so soon when I get a moment.

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joepanic

Well-Known Member
Hey Joe, I don't fully understand what happened to you here, but whatever it was, this opinion makes no sense to me. No one forces you to read those stories over there on that side of the forum, just as no one makes them (the ladies) read yours or mine over here. We're all here to get over porn, all our differences aside. Yes I don't fully understand everything over there, for multiply reasons, for one I'm not a partner of a porn user, and two, I'm not a woman, but that's okay. Furthermore, I'm pretty sure they don't always agree with me or my philosophizing about the natures of men and women etc., but that's their prerogative and I'm okay with that. To each their own.

I don't think it's necessarily man bashing, it's just how they see the world, especially at this moment in time after they've learned the truth, which is hard not to blame them. I have definitely learned some things reading over there this last year which is great, and the few women I've interacted with seem to be beautiful human beings. Yes, you and I have a different story in the sense that we never hid porn from our partner or wife, nor did they think porn was a sin or cheating, so our stories are a little different - good for us! But isn't that a good thing? Furthermore, at least for myself, I also never stopped having sex with my lady nor stopped talking or flirting with her, nor did I ever check out women in front of her, or zone out emotionally for 10 or 20 years. Thus, I literally have no clue how someone could do that to their woman (or anyone for that matter!), so I have a real hard time reading over there sometimes. Often, while reading, I want to screem "Wait a minute, I didn't do that to my girl, nor would I ever do that! Don't put me in that category!" Afterwards however, I have to remind myself, that many partners HAVE done that, and if someone had done that to me, I'd be fucking pissed off too, and might say somethings that could be described as "misogynistic". It is what it is. 🤷‍♂️

To me, getting over porn is considerably more important than arguing over the little details. Life's too short to be caught up in all our differences.

I wish you the best.
Thanks for responding Blondie

I think what I am getting at is when I joined this forum almost 5 years ago I seem re remember it was encouraged that we read the partners stories to get a better understanding of how our "addiction" affects others; namely "partners". Problem is if we disagree with something than its a "keep that thought to yourself" moment. At the same time I have had a few partners respond on my journal and basically tell me because how i decided to conduct my reboot(basically not telling my wife i had an actual addiction to porn--- she new I watched it and couldn't care less) I was not being the "best version of myself I could be" So it seems their opinion in their journals is not to be challenged but mine in my journal is open for challenge. Of course it was once mentioned to me to just kick them off my journal but what good does that do. I don't believe in stifling debate. But to be encouraged to read their stories and understand their feeling and all it is is a "its the man's fault for becoming an addict and they just don't care and can't be trusted ever again" mentality is a little much. the mandate of this site as I was to understand it when I joined was to encourage addicts to abstain from artificial sexual stimulation for 90 days. not to give relationship advice. This is supposed to be a @#$%$# detox from porn. One would not expect a meth addict to go through relationship advice during their detox now would they? Beautiful1973 was right perhaps I generalized the situation but at the same time I felt that the partners have also generalized us all as uncaring untrustworthy selfish and so on. We are addicts we are sick we don't expect to be "forgiven" right now but we would like to clear this stuff out of our system and than start to make things right. But to be told we are probably never going to be trusted again well what point would there be in moving forward other than to feel better about ourselves as men. That some of us could do anywhere because quite frankly the criticism really does cancel out the encouragement here

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joepanic

Well-Known Member
Did you know its possible for a woman to "gaslight" a man?

Post often it helps me it helps you
Didn't think anyone would touch that one it speaks volumes that no one has but I think I'll just leave it at that.

I guess I was right that I find it easier to stay away from porn when not being here on this forum everyday being reminded that porn users are generally no longer worth of being "trusted" in a relationship. Glad my wife is not that cynical (my apologies if I offend anyone with that one) Or is it because I never hid my porn use and my wife never considered it cheating. I'm sure some here will think I am sounding like a broken record here but as there are from time to time new people reading my journal they will understand where I come from a little more. I am 8 days in again and feel pretty good had great sex with the wife at 7 am this morning wonderful way to start out the day. Funny thing.... the more be don it the less urge i have go to to porn

Other thing of note is I am back working hard to get into better shape health wise. Down 9 pounds in 18 days definitely eating a little more healthy Not quite finding the time for regular exercise but that will come soon enough. What with therapists telling our 21 year old daughter because she pays us a whole $200 a month all in for living at home that she doesn't have to do any chores... Well cleaning up after her just eats into my time a little more than i would like. \

One may ask why I even bring things like this up well its part venting and part giving a background as to why I was a porn addict for so long. A lot is the outside interference and influences that keep me from living a fulfilling life. Porn was the ultimate escape I suppose. So for now I just have to work that much harder to find that fulfillment.

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joepanic

Well-Known Member
Interesting fact No man sets out to become a porn addict. Many times it is out of curiosity or perhaps not being able to find a girl for the real thing. Than it gets out of hand. Than they have changed the lives of others and in some cases forever. Imagine that an illness...please see addiction causing such "trauma" and for some reason its the only illness that does. Fun fact, Its the porn that the problem not the user or the addiction itself. The addict is truly in great pain and only wanting to get better but those around him find it hard to understand(of course I don't blame them) but imagine a cancer patient being treated the same way just because he was an addict to one of societies dark corners

I believe most will fail in this endeavour(reboot) as long as the addict is not properly understood and the illness is treated as with other illnesses

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joepanic

Well-Known Member
I wonder what happened to some of the addicts that were here almost 5 years ago when I discovered this place. Those who just "disappeared" Did they give up 100% and are still raging addicts? Have they found support elsewhere and won the battle?

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GBS

Well-Known Member
It’s a good question. Being glass half full person I presume they kicked the habit and didn’t think they needed continuing support. But I have only been on here for 7 months so what do I know? There was a guy I was regularly corresponding with back in May. He was clearly a Brit so banter flowed….then he just disappeared. He talked such sense so I presumed he found his peace and moved on. Was a bit odd.

Happy Thanksgiving
 

joepanic

Well-Known Member
It’s a good question. Being glass half full person I presume they kicked the habit and didn’t think they needed continuing support. But I have only been on here for 7 months so what do I know? There was a guy I was regularly corresponding with back in May. He was clearly a Brit so banter flowed….then he just disappeared. He talked such sense so I presumed he found his peace and moved on. Was a bit odd.

Happy Thanksgiving
I also try to live with the glass is half full rather than half empty. At the very least I hope that if they left because this forum was not working for them than they might have found a different one that is working. The fight is always worth it. As most know here I have not always liked the views or levels of support offered here but it seems for the most part I can get by on it.

On another note I am again having a good run currently sitting at 12 days

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