quit for good

joepanic

Respected Member
What does an addict need during recovery. UNDERSTANDING! Not just guilt trips. He is genuinely hurting. He is not being selfish. He has probably taken the big step of admitting he has a problem that is out of his control. He has realized the damage he has caused and is trying to make it right. He has also come to the conclusion that becoming an addict was not in his plan but will be accused of it anyway. He may come to the conclusion that a porn addict was not his fault in the first place. It may be due to betrayal trauma as a child. Now he has to deal with both this as well as fighting to stay away from porn. Now he must figure out whe.re his place in a porn free world lies. This all adds up to a massive workload. He can not do it himself but it seems he must. Any man attempting this is worthy of a certain amount of respect and understanding

Post often it helps me it helps you
 

Escapeandnevercomeback

Respected Member
What does an addict need during recovery. UNDERSTANDING! Not just guilt trips. He is genuinely hurting. He is not being selfish. He has probably taken the big step of admitting he has a problem that is out of his control. He has realized the damage he has caused and is trying to make it right. He has also come to the conclusion that becoming an addict was not in his plan but will be accused of it anyway. He may come to the conclusion that a porn addict was not his fault in the first place. It may be due to betrayal trauma as a child. Now he has to deal with both this as well as fighting to stay away from porn. Now he must figure out whe.re his place in a porn free world lies. This all adds up to a massive workload. He can not do it himself but it seems he must. Any man attempting this is worthy of a certain amount of respect and understanding

Post often it helps me it helps you
This is true. Addiction is often regarded as a choice or weakness of personality. But I've been following doctor Gabor Mate for quite some time. He has decades of experience in researching childhood trauma and its relationship to addiction. When I heard him speak, it hit me right away because I am in that category, I fit in that group of people dealing with childhood trauma.

According to doctor Gabor Mate, addiction to people dealing with childhood trauma was not a choice but a normal response to suffering. People, in general, like the happy feeling and hate suffering/the suck/pain etc. The normal response in people when they deal with suffering (emotional in my case) is "I want out of this, I'm hurting". But the response to this for me was defectuous because I didn't know what to do with my pain and I had nobody to guide me/help me/see me etc. As a result, I started dealing with it in my own way. I've found alcohol, I've found porn and they, as crazy as this may sound, they served a purpose for me back then. Without them, I would've probably be on Valium right now (probably developing an addiction to it anyway), or worse, dead (suicide) or (probably the most possible for me) have a serious mental breakdown. I've managed, somehow, to cope with all this shit by drinking and jerking off to porn. Of course, they didn't lead to any good life. I still need to figure out a way to make my life better. But the idea is that, no, I don't believe that addiction is a choice, I don't believe addicts are weak people, it's all bullshit. Many of us were fuckin kids who didn't know wtf to do with our pain. We bumped into something, it gave us a break from the pain and that abracadabra happened in our brain and (often this is not a conscious decision) we came to believe that this is the solution for how shit we felt. At that time we had no concept of pain, suffering, self-medication etc. We knew one thing: I feel like shit. Then you find alcohol, or porn, or drugs or whatever, and it gives you a break. That's all there is.
 

Escapeandnevercomeback

Respected Member
As a matter of fact, it's taken me a lot of years to finally realize that my abuse of alcohol and porn were actually a way to cope with pain. For a long time I didn't even see it. How the fuck can someone say this was my choice? Yes, it might be a subconscious choice of some sorts, but most of us don't choose on purpose this thing. Many of us can say something like this: Man, you know, things moved so fast, it just... happen. That's right, it happened on its own with me.
 

Escapeandnevercomeback

Respected Member
But, coming back to understanding, people will always misinterpret this. People will actually say that we are weak or have chosen this or even enjoy it. My parents don't offer me any help. They don't know about my porn addiction but they know about my struggles with alcohol and their reaction is that they are actually running out of patience with me, their reaction is actually: "When the fuck are you actually going to quit drinking already?" I didn't feel any compasion from them and it's crazy, me and my parents have a good relationship. But when it comes to them supporting me with my alcohol problems, they don't do it. And I've actively asked them for support. One morning, after drinking a full bottle of gin the day before, I told my dad that I needed some support. I haven't felt that so far. So, talking about understanding, often we don't get it. If my father would've said: "Listen, son, you don't need to hide, you can bring the bottle right here, put it on the table, drink from it, maybe we can drink together, but tell me what's wrong. Someone drinking large quantities by himself in loneliness is not normal drinking. So what's the problem? Can you say exactly what's the reason for drinking yourself under the table? Do you actually enjoy it that much or what?" And we would've had a different atmosphere. But, their attitude doesn't give me the feeling that I actually want to open up.
 

Escapeandnevercomeback

Respected Member
However, I believe that people still need people to support them in this struggle. A community can be a must for some of us. We need guidance, acceptance, understanding, advice or even the energy that other people can pass to us, other people who don't struggle with this anymore and you can feel their energy, they are more advanced on their spiritual path, they've been to the lowest of low. Often, we need to find a live group, sometimes a forum can't provide that human interaction and energy. That's why I'm thinking to join an AA group and maybe a SAA group. Anyway, man, I apologize for flooding your journal.
 

TakeActionNow

Respected Member
Any man attempting this is worthy of a certain amount of respect and understanding

@joepanic
While I can sense your anger and frustration here, I can only say that the only person we can expect these from is ourselves and ourselves only.

Regardless of the reasons and root causes of our addiction, the responsibility for recovery lies solely with ourselves.

This is because the person who will benefit the most from recovery is... Ourselves.

And so, with every tiny step or progress we make to eliminate our dependency, it is our self respect and understanding that propels us forward.

To expect others to give us this most special and important gift only weakens our efforts in our own eyes.

No one in my life except the people on this forum knows of my effort. I enjoy and am grateful for their advice and support. As i do this for me, and I enjoy all the benefits, thus I ask for no one's respect but my own.

I'm sure you're doing for yourself and enjoying all the benefits too. You deserve all the understanding and respect from yourself.
 

joepanic

Respected Member
Thanks for the posts Escape I totally understand everything you have said some of it rings true for myself.

Takeactionnow. I see where your coming from but I found your argument a bit linear. It only touched one half of my topic. It did not mention the fact that we are treated with guilt trips. Perhaps we are not as you say deserving of respect or understanding from others for this endevour but must we also be subjected to constant guilt at the same time? I would find that counter productive to say the least. bad things happened to some of us that were beyond our control destroyed our lives but the only thing that really matters to some is that they were hurt in the process. They are supposed to be given the understanding for damage caused and no matter how hard an addict may try to make it right he is told some of the damage is permanent. It seems only the final link in this mess is worthy of total understanding. Its too bad there isnt more understanding in this world We would all get a little further
 

TakeActionNow

Respected Member
@joepanic I hear you and I apologize if my suggestion doesn't help.
Thank you for sharing too.
It still seems to me that things might be better treated independently.

"we are treated with guilt trips"
This should have nothing to do with your recovery. This is people continually using the past to belittle and power over you. The best way is to be firm and ask them to stop.

"Perhaps we are not as you say deserving of respect or understanding from others"
It is not about deserving. We do this for ourselves. What others feel or think about it is irrelevant. But once you feel you are doing this for others, you'd set yourself up for failure.

"no matter how hard an addict may try to make it right he is told some of the damage is permanent"
This can be true for other reasons. Sometimes a hurt is just too great to ever be recovered. There are many relationships that do not recover from lost trust. It can happen from their point of view or yours. Can you say there isn't one person in your life that you haven't walked away from because they did something unforgiveable by you?
The point is this needs to be treated by its own merits and not be intertwined with your recovery.

If we are not living with loving and supportive people perhaps we should leave.

If we are constantly bombarded by our shame or inflicted by others, perhaps we should leave.

It's unhealthy and detrimental to our wellbeing.

If leaving is not possible then we need to have internal resilience and fortitude to ignore the bad and focus on our purpose or healing independent of other's actions.

In the end, we are only answerable to our actions, not others.

Please take care of yourself and find the light that heals you best.
 
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TakeActionNow

Respected Member
@joepanic there is reason why I urge you towards recovery and ignore other concerns.
Reboot changes the way we think and approach the world.
It gives great clarity to what is meaningful and important.
It helps to let go of whatever past we have and move stongly forward.

There are many positive congnitive aspects that come with reboot, and with it comes behavior changes, eventually happiness and contentment in life.

We can't help others until we help ourselves first.
Help yourself first.
 

joepanic

Respected Member
we are treated with guilt trips"
This should have nothing to do with your recovery. This is people continually using the past to belittle and power over you. The best way is to be firm and ask them to stop.
Interesting Especially the 1st line "This should have nothing to do with your recovery" We have always been encouraged to read the partners stories to help in our reboot But thats all you mostly find there. is how bad they have been hurt and how they can never trust again and so on . These views had also been put forth in my journal over the last few years

t is not about deserving. We do this for ourselves. Rest assured i do this for myself. Not for my wife (maybe for my kids) But mainly I do it for myself

"If we are not living with loving and supportive people perhaps we should leave." That would mean leaving Rebootnation.

"If we are constantly bombarded by our shame or inflicted by others, perhaps we should leave." That wouls also mean leaving Rebootnation.


"In the end, we are only answerable to our actions, not others" Than I need a forum without a partners section.

I say that because it has always been encouraged for us to read those stories so we new the impact caused to them
 

joepanic

Respected Member
It sounds like I need to get back to basics here. This is my reboot not my wife's not societies not anyone at Rebootnation's. Its mine. In my opinion this place has become a sounding ground for partners to shoot off about their pain and that it "must" factor in to our reboots. It has always been encouraged that we read the "partners" (please see "women" as I think I have yet to see a male partner in there) stories. And really only comment there if it fits into their narrative. To me this does not allow me to keep my eye on the ball. it's a little too accusatory guilt laden and vengeful for me. I never subscribed to the "eye for an eye" system. To me that's not constructive. I have seen men here with the same arguments I use only to see them picked apart.

So at this point no relationship advice is wanted on my journal. I shall leave the partners(ladies) to there own devices (not bother with their journals) and get on with it. I will appreciate any encouragement from anyone here partner or otherwise. But I am finished defending my position.

My journal may at this point seem somewhat mundane but anyone who reads it will at this point get a real feel for who I am today. Not who I was yesterday. I am not going to dwell on the fact that I was a porn addict. I don't care to remember that I was one. My wife did not care that I surfed porn and does not care if I check out other women from time to time(in fact she points them out on occasion)

Its time I take over my life free from others narratives.

Where I am now.

I am 2 days free of porn. I have gone from an almost daily habit of spending hours at a time looking for that perfect scene down to sporadic surfing of porn sometimes with weeks in between. i have given up the more extreme genres. I have given up cross dressing. That was probably the biggest improvement in my life. I play more on my musical instruments. i go to bed earlier and wake up feeling better. I have dumped 19 lbs in 6 weeks by mostly eating way more healthy and getting a little more exercise than I used to.

Where am I going to go

Lose another 40 lbs or so in the next 3-4 months. I am going to find ways to work around my wife's control issues and get my life back and start to enjoy it. Enjoy the house that I live in. Play more music. Get our lives a little more organized. Make more money because others in our household sure like to spend and don't ever tell them they are wrong because it's just not worth it. Learn something new. generally find ways to feel good about myself and have others say. Wow what a great quality guy.

so read my journal or don't read it but at times it may seem repetitive mundane and unexciting because you are going to here my play by play day by day life. the life of a man who is on the proper track in life

In the words of the great songwriter Joe Walsh "I'm just an ordinary Average guy"

Todays events. wife working some overtime 2 preteen boys on their devices on there devices 21 and 14 year old daughters still sleeping (its 11 am here) i am going to take some time to clean up the house around here as no one else has an interest in it

Cheers
 

joepanic

Respected Member
Day 3 Had a great visit with a friend last night a few drinks decent conversation and some nice Christmas type food. Just the kind of evening one would like at this time of year. But not too much food since I am eating healthy portions these days especially when it comes to "junk/comfort" food. Today we are taking the kids to a pioneer village for a few hours. Should be a lighthearted morning.

Cheers
 

joepanic

Respected Member
Day 4 begins feeling a little under the weather today so staying home from work. This will pose one of the typical challenges for a porn addict. Will need to think carefully as to how to spend the day. If my stomach permits me to I think i will clean out my garage where my exercise room is

Yesterday was very nice at the open air museum with the wife and boys It was time well spent

Cheers
 

joepanic

Respected Member
Day 5 not much to say went to work watch the tube can of beer perhaps an hour on the bike tonight. Not looking to debate anything with anyone including the wife. Simply not worth the effort these days

Cheers
 

joepanic

Respected Member
Hey its been a week now Another typical couple of days for a middle aged man Get up before the sun come's up work 10 hours fight the traffic come home do housework have a can of beer after having cooked some sort of supper, check out wife's ass every time she walks by watch Star wars while riding the bike for an hour. Pretty much the same thing as the last 15 years. Just didnt bother looking at porn.

Cheers
 

joepanic

Respected Member
Big dumping of snow in the last 48 hours and really cold out. Gonna be a typical "man" and do what the others around here feel entitled to not have to do. Clear the driveway and warm up the cars and so on

Cheers
 
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joepanic

Respected Member
What to do today..... Perhaps continue to be a man and just get things done. Ive sort of discovered Jordon Peterson and watched something on you tube from him. I read he is a bit controversial though. If anyone knows any one else with advice on being a "man" and is not controversial please let me know and I will have a look. I'll let everyone know later how my day went and what I actually did

cheers
 
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