T
Totte
Guest
Turtle said:
I have had a look at the site about karezza but it feels overwhelming where did you start?
Tom
Turtle Journal
- Thread starter DavS
- Start date
I have had a look at the site about karezza but it feels overwhelming where did you start?
Tom
DavS
Active Member
Karezza is helping so much. I can almost feel it rewiring my brain. I'm sure dopamine is involved, but I'm also sure karezza is the opposite of pmo, and an antidote for the addiction to porn. If you want to make this part of your recovery, start by discussing it with your partner. When sex is not directed to the goal of orgasm, it changes everything. I am choosing to try not to have an orgasm during karezza, and so far that is working. (The side bennifit is we can do it as long as we want!) But if an orgasm happens without any hard and fast sex, I will not consider it a setback for my reboot.
In reply to Karzam: I did'nt want to watch porn in the first place, certainly not the way I ended up watching it as an addict! At first, in the '90s I was curious and excited that this hard to get, expensive stuff was out there for free. By the time I orgasimed to it I was getting hooked. I had no idea how hard it would be to stop, what a heavy addiction it is. It just doesn't involve syringes, drug money, and all the typical signs of a drug addiction.
In reply to Karzam: I did'nt want to watch porn in the first place, certainly not the way I ended up watching it as an addict! At first, in the '90s I was curious and excited that this hard to get, expensive stuff was out there for free. By the time I orgasimed to it I was getting hooked. I had no idea how hard it would be to stop, what a heavy addiction it is. It just doesn't involve syringes, drug money, and all the typical signs of a drug addiction.
T
Totte
Guest
Thanks Turtle!
For posting the links on my journal.
If you would suggests, should I wait for like 30-40 days before starting this?
Just thinking that starting to early can get me to feel worse if we get bad results!?
Tom
For posting the links on my journal.
If you would suggests, should I wait for like 30-40 days before starting this?
Just thinking that starting to early can get me to feel worse if we get bad results!?
Tom
DavS
Active Member
Day 17, and still no orgasm. Surprise, I'm not going blind. My balls didn't swell up and explode either! I don't know what I thought would happen, but I'm fine.
( Karezza with my beloved wife is a huge help. I posted links on Tom65's thread if you want more info about karezza.)
( Karezza with my beloved wife is a huge help. I posted links on Tom65's thread if you want more info about karezza.)
DavS
Active Member
I'm on day 19, and right now its easier than my first two weeks. If the need for an orgasm were a simple linear thing, it would get more difficult every day. Karezza is definitely helping.
My wife and I are having lots of karezza sex, and its great. Without orgasm the lovemaking can go on for a very long time. My brain's sex patterns are definitely changing for the better. There is a lot of beautiful karezza literature, by great writers, so I'll only add a few observations here. Erectile issues are gone. I was starting to have troubles from porn addiction, that's thankfully no longer a problem. My wife and I are getting more intimacy and emotional closeness. (We are also practicing FANOS, more on this later.) Another major bennifit is I don't feel like I'm going without sex, it's very satisfying. It's also strengthening the self image I hold as my real self.
My wife and I are having lots of karezza sex, and its great. Without orgasm the lovemaking can go on for a very long time. My brain's sex patterns are definitely changing for the better. There is a lot of beautiful karezza literature, by great writers, so I'll only add a few observations here. Erectile issues are gone. I was starting to have troubles from porn addiction, that's thankfully no longer a problem. My wife and I are getting more intimacy and emotional closeness. (We are also practicing FANOS, more on this later.) Another major bennifit is I don't feel like I'm going without sex, it's very satisfying. It's also strengthening the self image I hold as my real self.
T
Totte
Guest
Turtle said:
I set you to buddy list!
Can you try to explain more how what yo doing with wife need to try to implement this in small steps.
Need some edvice!
So you cud email me
T
Totte
Guest
Turtle said:
Aye awesome
Thank you!
I read true the site!..
Tom
DavS
Active Member
The last few posts here concern karezza, which I highly recommend. Google it!
I'm also practicing FANOS with my wife. You can search it at nofap.com. It's a Greek word that means to shine; also an acronym for: feelings, affirmation/ acknowledge, needs, own, sobriety. It's a good aid to self counseling with your partner.
https://www.nofap.com/forum/index.php?threads/have-you-heard-of-fanos.67103/
I'm also practicing FANOS with my wife. You can search it at nofap.com. It's a Greek word that means to shine; also an acronym for: feelings, affirmation/ acknowledge, needs, own, sobriety. It's a good aid to self counseling with your partner.
https://www.nofap.com/forum/index.php?threads/have-you-heard-of-fanos.67103/
DavS
Active Member
Copied from my post on Hope....
Yes, sometimes it's best to keep things simple. Here's my take on simple - Who do I want to be? Once I have my goals, commit to them, identify with them. Now I'm learning how to undo the thoughts and feelings that come from my addiction; say...that's not what I want, not who I am. If I fall down, I'll get up and keep fighting for what I really want.
Yes, sometimes it's best to keep things simple. Here's my take on simple - Who do I want to be? Once I have my goals, commit to them, identify with them. Now I'm learning how to undo the thoughts and feelings that come from my addiction; say...that's not what I want, not who I am. If I fall down, I'll get up and keep fighting for what I really want.
T
Totte
Guest
Turtle said:
Simple and elegant!
It?s easy but yet hard to go true.
Agree that my indentity is what I make it to be.
Thanks for all help and vice words.
Tom
DavS
Active Member
Day 24 of reboot, still no orgasm! Lots of karezza sex is helping, so here is a link about the man's role in karezza. (Warning, explicit sex is discussed.)
https://www.reuniting.info/mans_role_karezza
I'm kind of getting used to not coming, and it seems easier now than in the first and second week. Still, the occasional flare up of orgasm desire has to be dealt with. I take slow deep breaths and think of something else that keeps me on track.
https://www.reuniting.info/mans_role_karezza
I'm kind of getting used to not coming, and it seems easier now than in the first and second week. Still, the occasional flare up of orgasm desire has to be dealt with. I take slow deep breaths and think of something else that keeps me on track.
T
Totte
Guest
Turtle said:
Sounds awesome!
Hope we can get there to.
Tom
T
Totte
Guest
I can now see that karezza will help me and my wife.
To start this we cuddle together nothing fancy just some tender cuddle with kisses. It was like a pree start of karezza step 1. It felt good and it was like I connecting to the mood, no expectations of doing anything else! And getting hard from just cuddling! Great feeling!
Thanks for introducing karezza.
Your friend Tom
To start this we cuddle together nothing fancy just some tender cuddle with kisses. It was like a pree start of karezza step 1. It felt good and it was like I connecting to the mood, no expectations of doing anything else! And getting hard from just cuddling! Great feeling!
Thanks for introducing karezza.
Your friend Tom
DavS
Active Member
Day 28 into my reboot.
I want to focus on triggers. This is how I look at the concept. Some experience occurs that makes you want to PMO, and if you pull the trigger, you get sucked back into porn land. (One problem is that people are not simple machines, we can change our response even if we get triggered, if our commitment, and determination are sufficient. That's why I don't like the term.) So we need strategies to cope with triggers.
I mentioned to my wife that I could be triggered by almost anything, "a shampoo commercial" for example. I think that's not really how they work. We don't get triggered by something, we have to pull the trigger! Saying I got triggered by something and PMOed is a cop out. It's pulling the trigger that we control, not exposure to triggers. Ok maybe a shampoo commercial isn't a good example. People have mentioned the swimsuit issue, and Victoria's Secret catalogs. Once exposed to this trigger a thought process takes place - in the context of our feelings and brain chemistry. We make choices. It's that thought process and choice that we have to protect, and reinforce with all the tools we have at our disposal. Sure cancel the catalogue delivery, but there will always be something that can be a trigger, so it boils down to how do we make the right choices in the moment.
I'm trying to develop an affirmation to practice and repeat, to create a drilled in neural pathway I can just follow in trigger-like situations. Something like "Wait... that was stimulating, but I know what I want, and I'm not going to open doors that lead to porn land."
I want to focus on triggers. This is how I look at the concept. Some experience occurs that makes you want to PMO, and if you pull the trigger, you get sucked back into porn land. (One problem is that people are not simple machines, we can change our response even if we get triggered, if our commitment, and determination are sufficient. That's why I don't like the term.) So we need strategies to cope with triggers.
I mentioned to my wife that I could be triggered by almost anything, "a shampoo commercial" for example. I think that's not really how they work. We don't get triggered by something, we have to pull the trigger! Saying I got triggered by something and PMOed is a cop out. It's pulling the trigger that we control, not exposure to triggers. Ok maybe a shampoo commercial isn't a good example. People have mentioned the swimsuit issue, and Victoria's Secret catalogs. Once exposed to this trigger a thought process takes place - in the context of our feelings and brain chemistry. We make choices. It's that thought process and choice that we have to protect, and reinforce with all the tools we have at our disposal. Sure cancel the catalogue delivery, but there will always be something that can be a trigger, so it boils down to how do we make the right choices in the moment.
I'm trying to develop an affirmation to practice and repeat, to create a drilled in neural pathway I can just follow in trigger-like situations. Something like "Wait... that was stimulating, but I know what I want, and I'm not going to open doors that lead to porn land."
T
Totte
Guest
Turtle said:
This is so true!
I feel that most important is to not act on the trigger!
We can?t protect our self from seeing things and person that can be triggers.
If don?t learn to live in the world then we haven?t gotten well we only live a half life.
Tom
DavS
Active Member
It's been 33 days since I've had an orgasm, and my main feeling is pleasantly surprised. I still want one, especially when I get overly excited during the amazing karezza with my wife. Still, it's definitely not as difficult as I thought it would be to avoid orgasm. Deep breathing and meditative relaxation are sufficient for me.
The main benefit of no orgasm for me has been the freedom it has given me from any desire to look at porn. I used porn to get orgasm. Then as addiction set in, it also became about the dopamine high, the rush, and the risk. I wasn't aware of my growing addiction to risk, rush and high, but in the wisdom of distance and hindsight, that was definitely a part of it.
On the plus side I'm experiencing another amazing bennifit of no orgasm. Without going into too much detail, I'll just say I have not had such large hard sustained erections since I was a teenager! For decades I had the idea in my head that I need about one orgasm a day to be normal and healthy. I learned from reputable sources that masturbation is normal and healthy, and I still accept this. Now after more research and my own experience, I think individuals need to find a sexual balance for themselves that allows them to have great sex with their partner. If they don't have a partner, they should be able to easily masturbate and orgasm without external stimulation. ( In other words, if you have to have to whack off for a while with porn to have an orgasm, you have a problem.)
The kind of sex I'm having now has changed my concept of healthy sexual functioning. I'm sure one orgasm a day is too many for me. I've heard it can take two weeks for brain chemistry to return to normal after an orgasm. My plan is to finish my reboot. I know it's not done, because I'm still learning new stuff, and I still feel I'm in recovery. Then I'll experiment with orgasm, and find a balance that allows me to keep the wonderful sex I have now.
The main benefit of no orgasm for me has been the freedom it has given me from any desire to look at porn. I used porn to get orgasm. Then as addiction set in, it also became about the dopamine high, the rush, and the risk. I wasn't aware of my growing addiction to risk, rush and high, but in the wisdom of distance and hindsight, that was definitely a part of it.
On the plus side I'm experiencing another amazing bennifit of no orgasm. Without going into too much detail, I'll just say I have not had such large hard sustained erections since I was a teenager! For decades I had the idea in my head that I need about one orgasm a day to be normal and healthy. I learned from reputable sources that masturbation is normal and healthy, and I still accept this. Now after more research and my own experience, I think individuals need to find a sexual balance for themselves that allows them to have great sex with their partner. If they don't have a partner, they should be able to easily masturbate and orgasm without external stimulation. ( In other words, if you have to have to whack off for a while with porn to have an orgasm, you have a problem.)
The kind of sex I'm having now has changed my concept of healthy sexual functioning. I'm sure one orgasm a day is too many for me. I've heard it can take two weeks for brain chemistry to return to normal after an orgasm. My plan is to finish my reboot. I know it's not done, because I'm still learning new stuff, and I still feel I'm in recovery. Then I'll experiment with orgasm, and find a balance that allows me to keep the wonderful sex I have now.
T
Totte
Guest
Wish i had your strength!
I had a relapse and feel down now.
Cuddos to you
I had a relapse and feel down now.
Cuddos to you