My counsellor thinks no mb is a bad idea

[SebUK]

Hi guys

Just wanted to get your thoughts on this. I talked to my counsellor about this site the other day and how it involved no p/mb for 90 days to reboot your brain. He liked the idea of the no p, but thought the no mb was just going to cause me more problems. He thinks mb is a good 'release valve' for my arousal. He is a sexual health counsellor with a lot of experience.

I'm not sure I agree with him. I mentioned to him that I had gone 45 days with no p/mb (which was  the longest I've gone without mb for my *whole life*) and that I had felt extremely anxious and aroused. Ie massive withdrawal symptoms. He suggested that if I had mb then I probably would have felt less aroused and stressed. At the time I thought he was right but going back through my diary, I realise I had had sex with my partner just two days before my relapse. In other words, my anxiety/arousal didn't appear to be because I needed an orgasm/mb. It was because I needed porn.

I've read similar things on this forum of guys who don't crave mb at all during their reboot - what they want is porn. That was exactly my experience. And the most surprising thing was that even after really good sex with my partner, I *still* wanted porn like a crack addict wants crack. In retrospect that is shocking.

the last point is that during my last reboot I decided to try what my counsellor suggested. I had gone about 7 days without p/mb. On Thursday I was feeling a bit horny so I decided I'd mb on Friday morning to 'release some steam'. I did. And then on Friday night I relapsed. Fail. To me it seems obvious that mb is just a ... secondary function of the porn addiction.

Can you guys please let me know what you think of my counsellor's advice based on your experience? thanks

 

[jjhh]

My personal experience as PMO addict is that if I MO without P is generally quite unsatisfying.
Because of this generally what happens if I try to mb without porn is I can't get off, and I end up watching porn even I wasn't supposed to.
Or I just fantasize about the last scene I saw, until I ultimately decide I MUST see it again.

Fact is most so called professionals are oblivious about PMO related addictions.
I'm a newbie too though. About month in my longest reboot with one O without P.

 

[OSS]

Well we're still in early stages of PA knowledge, basically everything is anecdotal and speaking in absolutes doesn't get us very far.

We do see a strong correlation between orgasm/arousal streaks and leaps in recovery, a lot of people (primarily people with ED) seem to NEED complete abstinence from orgasm for at least some period of time.

Personally for me MO is a very bad idea because I get strong P chaser for about a week afterwards, which has lead to P binging. For someone who doesn't get chaser and still notices good improvement in ED it may serve as a valuable release as your therapist said. But then again If you have a partner Oing with them would be a much more valuable means of release than an empty unsatisfying MO.

 

[William]

I just have to ask...does your counselor believe in porn addiction?  One of the problems or realities we have to acknowledge is that porn addiction has only recently been accepted as even existing, as in the last few years.  Many "counselors" training did not include the concept, and there is still debate in the scientific community about whether porn can by definition be addicting. 

By the way, porn addiction is real. 

As for me, I am no counselor, just a guy who overcame porn addiction.  While avoiding porn during the reboot is absolutely necessary, I believe that any outlet other than actual sex should be avoided too, and this includes MO.  Look at it this way, this is a 90 solution to a potentially lifetime problem, though it feels like a long time during the reboot, compared to the rest of your life, it is very temporary.  Get clean first before you decide.  Part of the process for getting clean, part of the 90 day reboot, is to minimize all sexual imagery and hypersexual thought during that time.  Get 90 days clean and you will have a different perspective. 

 

[SebUK]

My personal experience as PMO addict is that if I MO without P is generally quite unsatisfying.
Because of this generally what happens if I try to mb without porn is I can't get off, and I end up watching porn even I wasn't supposed to.
Or I just fantasize about the last scene I saw, until I ultimately decide I MUST see it again.

Fact is most so called professionals are oblivious about PMO related addictions.
I'm a newbie too though. About month in my longest reboot with one O without P.

During my last reboot I did actually find MO without porn really good. One of the main reasons was that I felt awesome that I hadn't looked at porn! But sometimes the fantasies did infiltrate my mind. And I think you're right that this is probably contributing to my ultimately wanting it again. I'm fairly sure he thinks porn addiction is real, but it's worth asking.

Well we're still in early stages of PA knowledge, basically everything is anecdotal and speaking in absolutes doesn't get us very far.

We do see a strong correlation between orgasm/arousal streaks and leaps in recovery, a lot of people (primarily people with ED) seem to NEED complete abstinence from orgasm for at least some period of time.

Personally for me MO is a very bad idea because I get strong P chaser for about a week afterwards, which has lead to P binging. For someone who doesn't get chaser and still notices good improvement in ED it may serve as a valuable release as your therapist said. But then again If you have a partner Oing with them would be a much more valuable means of release than an empty unsatisfying MO.

What's interesting is that just before the relapse I had sex. Perhaps this didn't help :-( I know there are some on here that advocate no sexual activity whatsoever. That seems a bit overkill perhaps, but then again my relapse did happen two days after I had sex, and before that I had gone 45 days straight. Hmm.

I just have to ask...does your counselor believe in porn addiction?  One of the problems or realities we have to acknowledge is that porn addiction has only recently been accepted as even existing, as in the last few years.  Many "counselors" training did not include the concept, and there is still debate in the scientific community about whether porn can by definition be addicting. 

By the way, porn addiction is real. 

As for me, I am no counselor, just a guy who overcame porn addiction.  While avoiding porn during the reboot is absolutely necessary, I believe that any outlet other than actual sex should be avoided too, and this includes MO.  Look at it this way, this is a 90 solution to a potentially lifetime problem, though it feels like a long time during the reboot, compared to the rest of your life, it is very temporary.  Get clean first before you decide.  Part of the process for getting clean, part of the 90 day reboot, is to minimize all sexual imagery and hypersexual thought during that time.  Get 90 days clean and you will have a different perspective. 

I think he believes in porn addiction, although I did not ask. He seemed fairly liberal about the idea of mb and what I would consider very objectionable porn though. It's probably worth clarifying. Either way he definitely took my problem seriously.

You're very right about the 90 solution being insignificant over my whole life. As it is, I cringe at the time I've wasted looking at porn/self-diagnosing/researching porn and just generally WASTING MY LIFE on this problem. If I could time travel I would return to my 12 year old self's room with a gun, and blow a hole right through my computer.

 

[jjhh]

I just have to ask...does your counselor believe in porn addiction?  One of the problems or realities we have to acknowledge is that porn addiction has only recently been accepted as even existing, as in the last few years. 

This is agreat point. And even if porn is seen as addictive, some would argue that it is "healthy addiction". Like food or something...
Much more so with masturbation without porn.  Is it normal? Sure. So is porn. Is it good for you? It's an open question.
Many of us here would say no. Most of "sexual health professionals" would say yes, atleast for single men.

 

[savingmysoul]

i have to chime in here - I think some should re-read what William is trying to say.

No Porn! Period - It simply cannot be an option.  Not today, not tomorrow, not ever.

Anyone trying to pigeon hole in a reason to use porn to get off, calm a fear, relax stress, or whatever - should stop for a minute or two and realize that is the voice of the addict talking - and that can be a strong voice.  If you keep looking for reasons to continue to feed it, it gets worse, and it continues to take over.