Thanks for the great insights man!
Unfortunately I pretty much full on relapsed. I did not MO while looking at P, but I did all sorts of stuff then after MO'd many times. To say I have been feeling pretty down is an understatement. Just now I was feeling unbelievably sorry for myself but coming to the forum I feel a bit better.
So: I have had 4 100 plus day streaks more or less (my best steaks I do not count days). One of them I was doing before 12 step and when I went in to 12 step I was told I had no control yadda yadda and would relapse if I hadn't completed the steps, I came to believe that and i did relapse.
ALL other streaks I lost by trying to cut out all sex fantasy. ALL OF THEM. Each time I felt I had it beat that is what happened. It is not my imagination it is not like I have some disease and I am trying to rationalize that I can control it..... I would be doing very well decide that I shouldn't be fantasizing about girls/sex aim to cut it out, set goals for it etc. then relapse afterwards EVERY TIME.
It doesn't make sense. Do I fantasize about sex more then average? Sure. Is it a problem. NO. I am tired of making that damn mistake and relapsing. So I am not attempting to be A-sexual ever again. Each time I'd cut out fantasy I have morning wood for a few days, but guess what? After relapsing mo'ing like 5x I had even bigger morning wood the next day.... so morning wood is not always a perfect indicator or what I am doing is working.
There is actual no real negative effect on my life of fantasizing about girls in a realistic/vanilla way. Unless I obsess about one girl. The times when I was clean of PMO and in relationships with girls I absolutely did fantasize about them, and I'd tell them the things I fantasized about, they liked it and it also boosted my confidence during sex, it was like mental rehearsal. Fantasy is something where moderation is actually the winning ticket.
Anyways, none of this is rationalization or anything. I am not rationalizing like porn is okay or porn fetish fantasy is okay it is NOT I know that for sure. But I see a pattern in my relapses they all follow the exact same mechanics. I don't understand why I did it 3 times, but I am not doing it again.
I will keep things simple:
NO FETISH FANTASY
NO ACTING OUT FETISH
Ta da that is all. NEVER trying to completely cut out all thoughts of girls or sex again. What is the cost benefit analysis? Like fantasing about girls in a healthy way has never given me PIED, it doesn't make me feel anxious and like shit the next day. I just felt like I shouldn't be doing it because it was lame or not strict enough or something. The downside of cutting it out has been going full blown into porn in the past.
So I spoke with someone who successfully overcame a serious sex addiction and has helped many other people in similar situations. He also said cutting out all masturbation can be a problem for some guys and recommended trying masturbating on an exact schedule, two days per week, I will ad on it'll be evenings only. I am planning to try this as well.
I know I tried masturbating being okay and it did not work, but that is different from having EXACT reasonable limits on it. He advised that once per a day, for example, is enough to keep PIED alive, so less is better.
I can't really think of a super rational reason to not masturbate at all.
Anyway, I won't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Writing often about why porn and porn fetish fantasy are harmful and I want to quit, worked superbly well. Trying to quit all fantasy totally did not.
Now, I think there is some psychology/ rebound effect at work. So I had no thoughts of sex at all for say 21 days, then I "gave in" and fantasized about a girl I went on a date with for a little bit, I felt like I had failed (this all happened very fast) and I also felt a strong urge for fetish fantasy so in minutes I was fetish fantasizing then soon after I felt I failed so I looked at an escort website, and I failed on that commitment so I kept looking for days.... until I mo ed many times yestarday.
So is sex fantasy a problem? After all I did fetish fantasize in MINUTES afterward. But here is the thing..... I spent probably 3 months no P, no fetish fantasy, while fantasizing about sex MOST nights. I made goals to not fantasize about sex but I made a concious decision that it was not a priority and it was okay to break it, until this last time which led to this relapse. Again I have seen no actual negative effects to fantasizing about sex other then me judging myself for it (not saying this applies to all). I do have a good amount of sexual experience with girls so these fantasies are not porn influenced (I know when they are and THAT I do not allow).
As far as MO. This is just something I am willing to try. For a few weeks. I remember I wanted so badly not to mo years ago that I thought "instead of moing, I'll contact an escort!" and I did, getting myself off mentally by the text exchange etc. That is a hell of a lot worse them Moing. I have done that many times, feeling urges/ horny and doing crazy shit rather then MO. Not saying moing is the answer to an urge, but is it really (for me) as bad as those other actions I took instead?
I have been having trouble on dates huge trouble in part because I am overwhelmingly desparate. Like ridiculously desparate....
And like that crazy sexual impulsivness, I did not used to have that, at all. I have talked to several friends who did no fap and they all said the same (again not saying this applies to everyone!). Plus when I came yestarday, from masturbating. THAT is the moment when I felt awful, like I felt dirty, this is disgusting, look how gross you are etc. Are those rational thoughts? Like is masturbation, really evil? Why is the masturbating the moment where I felt I truly relapsed and not when I was freaking texting escorts and considering that a gray area?
Thoughts like that, which I have seen on other no fap forums make me question some of my ideas. I have a long history of making life harder then it needs to be.... Before I knew what PIED was, I read about "death grip" syndrome. I was motivated to fix it and I read to masturbate one time per week with a gentle grip. I did this without a problem and had some of the best erections and morning wood of my life. If I choose to, I can choose to masturbate 2x per week. If my penis works well and I feel better why not continue with that?
If it does not work well then I can go back to "old faithful"
No P fant/ actions.
And then don't worry about anything else, such as thinking of girls etc. just keep it simple. Anyways. Thanks for the support blue. I was feeling really really bad lately. (Did I even post that I lost my job last week?) Glad to get back here and realize I am not powerless. I tried something in my reboot, that doesn't work I have enough proof now.
I may post a bit less, I have had good success just not thinking too much about rebooting before. Also all of my longest P free periods I did not count days, so I'll probably go for that too