Resolved to conquer this

TheNorman

Active Member
The fantasy MO is definitely the grey area that easily leads back to P, so good for you on calling yourself on it. Ultimately the fantasy and disconnect feed into the P trap and that's why it's such a struggle. I'm in the same mode of figuring out all the stuff that pushed me into disconnection and fantasy and address those, while avoiding places like Reddit that made it much too easy for me to dip into images and videos that were either triggers or full blown P.
 

Joel

Active Member
Yeh, such a tricky time. It's crazy, not for generations has there been a need to stay away from everyone. Hope you can find a balance somehow, my friend
 

ShadeTrenicin

Well-Known Member
Hey Leonidas;

I too know the tempation of fantasy based MO (as in fantasizing about P or past P endeavours) and it's a slipperly slope. Does it activate the same neural pathways in my brain as just looking at P? Does this help the recovery? I've noticed that it's very easy to get lost in P fantasy MO and that you can actually binge on it.

So I think that a reset based on the insecurities is a good step; you don't approach it as black and white but as a whole because you recognize your insecurities as part of the reason why you watch porn.

Good luck I am rooting for you and I hope that you can find a way to stay safe but also socially active
 

Georgos

Well-Known Member
Hi Leo, I find you to be the most insightful commentator and journalist on the forum, look forward to your next update,

.G.
 

workinprogressUK

Well-Known Member
Leonidas said:
The other portion is desire for connection.  So now I need to address the 'how-to' of eradicating the insecurity (for if that falls, then so will the fantasy like a house of cards).  The other half is really doing something about connecting with others.  Covid-19 seems to be like the perfect excuse for not doing anything and staying away from everybody.  But there have got to be ways to become part of a community that meets from time to time whilst keeping with the safety measures.

Maintaining real connections looks, from here, to be the easier fix than eradicating insecurity. Nothing you can do within the lockdown rules to connect or reconnect with anybody?
 

Leonidas

Active Member
Day 2

Had another one of those fantasy MO slips on the weekend, which came about quite unexpectedly as I had come back (refreshed?) from a 3-day escape to the countryside. The break was nice and the surrounding greenery brought me back to Earth (away from my own head I suppose).  But then as always, my neural tubing found a way to circumnavigate my conscious centers to have its own pleasure-seeking ways... Always fascinated by how clever and astute the brain, in its infinite capacity to outfox me, can figure out new solutions to new problems.  It would sell mother and shirt (if it could) for a hit of dopamine without batting an eye... but then thinking of my neural mesh in such a way probably isn't the kindest way of looking at my own pathology.  I digress.  All this to say I relapsed.  Anyway.  It's two days and an entirely new situation.  New job: pull up antennae and listen carefully for any rumbling noises... anything suspicious, report back to base camp.

TheNorman: I agree with the P-link... it is all the more obvious on the DAY of relapse.  Way I see it: MO to fantasy --> feeling of DISCONNECT --> SEVERE drop in mood --> more likely to resort to another compulsion (porn, drugs, gambling or whatever) to compensate.

Joel: Thanks for the encouragement.  It's especially difficult for those of us (myself included) who need to learn to socialize more.  The present situation adds another obstacle.

Shade: Difficult to answer the question of whether fantasy-MO = porn-MO.  Guess for now, nobody can be sure.  In my case, I believe the insecurity stems from porn's influence.  Therefore the fantasy-MO is of the porn-brainwashed variety.  What you said here:
"So I think that a reset based on the insecurities is a good step; you don't approach it as black and white but as a whole because you recognize your insecurities as part of the reason why you watch porn." was the arrow that hit the center of target.

Georgos: Much appreciated! I just love the level the 40's section brings... I've learned a lot from others.

WIP: Quite true.  I have a couple of friends on hand, but what I strive for are new connections.  A community service or volunteering opportunity might do it.  I could get off my arse and start looking for one but here I am bitching and complaining about it!  Come on, just let me do one call this week to some association and see how that goes... thanks!
 

ShadeTrenicin

Well-Known Member
Hey Leonidas,

Sucks that you're on day 2 but you are also back on the horse and back on here. That's a good sigh.
In hindsight, is there a specific thing/action that could've been done to overtake the course to relapse? As in could you've taken pre-emptive measures or a last minute fail safe?


Good luck Leonidas, I am rooting for you
 

Joel

Active Member
I've found these lovely 'breaks' can be tricky. I've had really long holidays, where I've felt connected to the nature and earth, but I also spent the time reading nofap/ self-development stuff - but relapsed on getting home. Breaks are good to recharge the batteries, but in my experience, they are literally time off from the real world and the process of quitting P. Got to make sure we overcome those gateways that are bad habits, and that lead to worse habits. Have a great day.
 

Leonidas

Active Member
Day 3

Another lapse in judgment (oops).  MO'd to fantasy, yet again.  I've been paying more close attention to sleep lately, and what I have observed so far goes something like this:
- LESS sleep tends to make me feel more anxiety
- sleeping late combined with online activity late at night seems to provoke fantasy-related thoughts... the next day
- sleeping 8+ hours instead of 6 or 7 has an overall calming effect
- if sleep arrives before midnight -> good omen for the next day

Have I been neglecting sleep hygiene?  Could inconsistent sleep patterns foment a muddled head and lead to poorer decisions?  I heard from someone whose been reading about health-related topics that the Dalai Lama apparently requires 9 hours of sleep to be functional the next day!!  While I am certainly not a 9-hour type, I can see the reasoning behind the rule that more is better (and earlier is better than later).

I will aim to hit the sack regularly no later than 11:30 throughout the week, hoping to get around 8 hours every night.  Effective immediately!

ShadeTrenicin said:
Sucks that you're on day 2 but you are also back on the horse and back on here. That's a good sigh.
In hindsight, is there a specific thing/action that could've been done to overtake the course to relapse? As in could you've taken pre-emptive measures or a last minute fail safe?
Hello Shade, no preemptive measures taken.  I think of this as more of a tactic than a strategy of avoiding a relapse.  The fail-safes are like a kind of "white-knuckling" which is a way to fight against oneself... so can be effective for some but not for me.  My current strategy is to give in (relapse) when the feelings are too overpowering... but to figure out how manage life so that I get a lot less of those 'rushes'.  Less time micro-managing PMO avoidance -> more focus on changing life for the better.  I have a feeling I will relapse more often than most others, but what matters for me are the life changes over the long haul.

Joel said:
I've found these lovely 'breaks' can be tricky. I've had really long holidays, where I've felt connected to the nature and earth, but I also spent the time reading nofap/ self-development stuff - but relapsed on getting home. Breaks are good to recharge the batteries, but in my experience, they are literally time off from the real world and the process of quitting P. Got to make sure we overcome those gateways that are bad habits, and that lead to worse habits. Have a great day.
Exactly what happened to me.  Thought it would be like a buffer against the odd urges.. but often found that it was the day after coming back from vacations that urges suddenly hit out of nowhere!
 

Leonidas

Active Member
Day 5

On Monday evening, I went to bed right on the midnight mark, but I somewhat cheated.  I had read some slightly stimulating material online which is not the smart thing to do right before bedtime.  So I ended up with about 7 hours of sleep, which although not bad, kind of set me up (with the evening's stimulating material) to random sexual thoughts.  As I needed to commit to a work deadline, I decided it was best to MO to rid myself of the thoughts.  Did not feel down, but noticed a loss of energy that spread throughout the day.  Was able to finish the work I had promised myself to complete and this made up for the loss of energy.

The take away from this was that the MO could have been avoided had I not insisted on the stimulating reading 2 evenings ago.  I keep thinking of the Dalai Lama and his 9-hour sleep ritual.  Today I am feeling a lot better, having had the 8.5 hours to recoup from the yesterday's accumulated fatigue.  My mind feels clearer, quieter and less inclined to seek out constant entertainment.  Totally recommitting to the bedtime by 11:30 rule.

Hope everyone is doing ok.
 

Joel

Active Member
Leonidas said:
My mind feels clearer, quieter and less inclined to seek out constant entertainment.  Totally recommitting to the bedtime by 11:30 rule.

yep, a totally important part of the process
and yep, rules and systems, and recommitting to them is important too! feel free to report back with some accountability :)
 

Leonidas

Active Member
Joel said:
yep, a totally important part of the process
and yep, rules and systems, and recommitting to them is important too! feel free to report back with some accountability :)
Joel, sometimes we all need to just follow some rules.  Otherwise, what will we do with all that freedom?  :p

Signing back in after a week absence. Had a minor MO lapse last Wednesday evening, but so far so good.. I've managed to keep the MO's on a diet this month.  A quick average of my MO count each month between May and August would probably round to about 10 (a month), which is a lot.  I would like to lessen the load (no pun intended) and help regain momentum.  If I can half that amount this month, it would be a huge step forward!

One little caveat.  From last Thursday onward, I have been 'gaming'.  I don't care for that word... I don't consider myself a 'gamer'.  But once a season I happen to indulge in some playtime for a couple of days, then remove the game and go dry for several months.  This new stretch has gone for about 5 days, and I believe my brain won't let me go until I have this last one-off tonight.  Then I'll kiss it goodbye.. Reason I mention this?  The ritual has been interfering with my sleep time, which is going against my very own advice to self!  And although I have stayed away from any MO'ing, I cannot help but think of this oft-quoted saying:
"Trading one addiction for another."

I don't think I'm an addict, but to be clear I do think the late binge on games is yet another tool that I use to self-soothe.  For once I stop using it, the brain will try to employ its wizardry to nudge me to self-medicate with the MO or worse with a full blown P-relapse.
 

Andrew1973

Active Member
Your gaming point is an interesting one Leon. I occasionally indulge (my daughter got me into Fortnite - that?s all I play, even though she?s now moved on!) I am undecided whether playing helps or hinders my PMO progress. In some aspects it gets me ?wired? in a way that has some similarities to porn or chat, but there have been other occasions where I have been tempted with PMO and the choice to game instead has eradicated the PMO urge by providing alternative stimuli. Whatever the answer, I agree that taking breaks is beneficial so good luck with your last blast for a while, and readjusting to life without it, including your MO ?diet?. Take care.
 

TheNorman

Active Member
Leo and UK you can count me in as someone who has binged on games too. Rocketleague was a big one for me. Mercifully they pulled the plug on Mac support and that took care of that (although I did toy around with modding my mac or getting a PC!). Like UK said, if you can indulge in games without going too wild and it's keeping you away from PMO then I say go for it!
 

LetItGoAlready

Active Member
Hey Leonidas-Good for you for recognizing that you might be crossing a healthy boundary here. I recently started playing Age of Empires Definitive Edition but had to pull back when I began cannibalizing sleep because of it. No doubt in my mind it's trading one addiction for another. Who knows, maybe it's all connected. It could just be another clever scheme by your brain to kickstart your sputtering PMO cycle again. Nothing would surprise me at this point!
 

Leonidas

Active Member
As I had promised myself, yesterday was the last evening I indulged in the game.  6 hours of sleep later, I am now perfectly okay with removing it from the system and moving on to better things.  The trick here is not to worry too much about a potential next gaming binge... I hope I won't need it, but if I do, I'll see how to best deal with it.

New day, new challenges.  Also, looking forward to recover better sleeping habits.  Overall mood right now is not the best, but could be worse..

UKGuy said:
Your gaming point is an interesting one Leon. I occasionally indulge (my daughter got me into Fortnite - that?s all I play, even though she?s now moved on!) I am undecided whether playing helps or hinders my PMO progress. In some aspects it gets me ?wired? in a way that has some similarities to porn or chat, but there have been other occasions where I have been tempted with PMO and the choice to game instead has eradicated the PMO urge by providing alternative stimuli. Whatever the answer, I agree that taking breaks is beneficial so good luck with your last blast for a while, and readjusting to life without it, including your MO ?diet?. Take care.
Isn't it strange how such simple things can reel us in and yet, teenagers pass through them like a tornado moving northwards!  At this point I'm uncertain as to whether the two 'indulgences' are tied.  Like you said, gaming has had that effect of thwarting the odd PMO craving.  But it gives me the sense that gaming fills the void left behind by MO avoidance.  And if I remove gaming then.. something else would need to fill it in its place.  It's a loop: when will I be satisfied?

Fortnite has been on the news, so pretty much everyone has heard of it... but it operates like most other games: built to be addictive.  Indulgences are fine from time to time, but not everyone is able to handle games like a proper hobby.  It can soon blow over into prolonged hours-long sessions daily.  So I believe judgment as to completely sidestep or not depends on whether there is control over the activity.  I don't think I exercise complete control over gaming, I'm afraid...

TheNorman said:
Leo and UK you can count me in as someone who has binged on games too. Rocketleague was a big one for me. Mercifully they pulled the plug on Mac support and that took care of that (although I did toy around with modding my mac or getting a PC!). Like UK said, if you can indulge in games without going too wild and it's keeping you away from PMO then I say go for it!
Hey TheNorman, if it took a change of system support to get you to stop, then imagine the power that thing actually did exercise on the mind!  I would be an absolute addict if I had ever been exposed to it.  For me, negotiating that fine line between enjoying and over-indulging is blurry business... like adding an extra challenge that isn't really necessary.  I think the most important question regarding gaming is this: "How do I feel right after I finish gaming?  Do I feel good, uplifted, proud, satisfied?  Or is it something like: indolent, apathetic and bored?"  And I think that's the crux of it: gaming feels good in the moment, but once it's over it feels like 'meh'!

LetItGoAlready said:
Hey Leonidas-Good for you for recognizing that you might be crossing a healthy boundary here. I recently started playing Age of Empires Definitive Edition but had to pull back when I began cannibalizing sleep because of it. No doubt in my mind it's trading one addiction for another. Who knows, maybe it's all connected. It could just be another clever scheme by your brain to kickstart your sputtering PMO cycle again. Nothing would surprise me at this point!
LetItGoAlready, I believe you and I share a few things in common!  Losing sleep over the odd gaming binge.  A penchant for ancient warfare strategy games (and probably a love of ancient history too).  And of course recognizing the game binges for what they are.  I don't know if the reason for gaming is the brain hacking away for some extra hits of dopamine.  I doubt it in my case... because it would not explain why I indulge once every few months rather than needing it every day.  For me it's the escape from the real world, a way to forget who I am for a minute and just wallow in a different world.. I mean what is there not to love about the Chi-Rho shields of the Byzantine Romans!  But back to the real world, I recognize it as a fantasy escape, it's not wrong per se... but it is also saying to me: "find something to do that'll make life a thrill to live".
 

Leonidas

Active Member
One week mark PMO-free

Much better sleep last night.  But like you guys in the comments above warned me, the lack of 'game' may call up another dopamine-producing ritual.  I don't want to be on my guard.. as being on guard is adding extra stress I don't need.  Just being aware helps.  I know my brain's infinite capacity for seeking refuge and self-soothing behaviors.. which may sound hopeless, but at same time, it means there must be capacity for learning to cope with less stimulating conditions.

Otherwise, social life is a bit barren at the moment.  Keep communicating with one friend living out of town about twice a week.  Another friend living in proximity I haven't spoken to in almost 6 months, probably due to laziness on both parts and my mistaking his tight schedule with work n' family as having NO time to talk to me.  Then there is that friend I haven't spoken to for 3-4 years (what a disaster), again due to drifting out of touch.  Socially, I find I'm like the twig that constantly manages to separate itself from the blob of river branches to follow the wayward course downstream.  No social sticking power.  I know can change this, but at the moment I'm just disappointed by the state of affairs.
 

Leonidas

Active Member
Reporting a lapse.  Over-powering feeling of lust emerged mixed in with old fantasy playing out in my head... something I would describe as 'acting out inside my own head'.  The bad: 2 MO releases, which brings my MO count to 4 this month.  The good: 11 days without stimulation of any kind.  Anything above 10 days for me is worthy of praise, so that I feel encouraged to repeat the process.  Also good: on day 10 I really wanted to give in to the fantasy, but when I suggested to myself that if there is no urgency to act on it now (then why act?), I was able to dispel the urge.  Unfortunately for me, it came back the next day and here I am.

I also noticed something interesting: right after the relapse I felt a strong need to play a game!  So I played a few online chess matches.  Still, I feel like indulging in my go-to game tonight.  I might just do a one-off and be done with it.  But I have definitely noticed that post-relapse I am vulnerable to other coping mechanisms (as though gaming is a way to 'undo' the sour feelings that precede and follow the fantasy act-out).

Looking forward to pulling off another string of days without stimulation.  It was too early to tell, but I believe things do re-calibrate at around days 9-10 for me.
 

Andrew1973

Active Member
I admire the way that you are not overly hard on yourself after a relapse Leonidas, but objective about the situation.
Did you decide to take any action regarding your friends and social connections following you post on the 10th? It felt like you had identified some good insights - especially around friends 2 and 3, but I guess the real benefit is in then acting on those insights? Good luck whatever you decide.
 

Leonidas

Active Member
UKGuy said:
I admire the way that you are not overly hard on yourself after a relapse Leonidas, but objective about the situation.
Did you decide to take any action regarding your friends and social connections following you post on the 10th? It felt like you had identified some good insights - especially around friends 2 and 3, but I guess the real benefit is in then acting on those insights? Good luck whatever you decide.
Thanks for the kind words, UK.  I have internally decided that I do want to contact them.  Haven't done so thus far, and I attribute that failure to indolence.  I am needing to gather up some more energy, as I have been out of focus lately.

I'll be taking a short 4-day break from everything.  Given the low number of hours of work I have as it is and my recent mental fog/rut, I'll be resetting my brain from all things PC.  No e-mails, no online forums, no working and no looking and applying for jobs, etc.. Just time off to sleep, rest, walk outdoors, read, reflect and hopefully call up friends I haven't spoken to in a while.  Until Monday, then!
 
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