My journal, my friend

[imsorrynotsorry]

Hey Gigili,

i started to tell her years ago with how it all began: I was young and me and my friends started looking. Somehow it was different for me, because i found myself later in a place where i realised it became self-functioning (an addiction). After that i realised it's an addiction i rebooted with 25 to fall back in occasionally PMO from 26/27 to 34 (weekly or monthly).
For me it was important to not tell her about it with not having successes in hand, so i had already proof for me getting better. That's just my nature. In general there is no rush in telling her at all, because this would put pressure on us we definitely don't need. There will be the right time.

I also think that my GF isn't the person feeling comfortable asking uncomfortable questions about how often i PMO'd or if i PMO'd while she was sleeping or sth else. I have to admit, i would lie about this all the time, because i think it's my responsibility that a) i have an addiction and b) i have the responsibility and the position to think what is best for my relationship.
There is another journal of chris and he is more about being completely open up to his partner. I respect this aswell.
It's just from my experience, trust is something so vulnerable. A years work destroyed in seconds, for what?!? Therefore i'll advice you to think through how and when to open up. It's you who's deciding what you answer and what not and it's her part to learn to trust you on things without knowing it completely, like you don't look in your partners phone when she's showering just to be sure that she's not texting anyone else. This you know or you don't, in the end it's the responsibility of the initiator.

On the other hand, i've read a lot of stories were full opening up helped both, so it depends your situation. If you don't see a way out on your own, opening up will help one way or another. If you're managing good, then confession 'lite' can help not to overheat this topic. Any other perspective on this is welcomed.

Beside all that i'm good. I realised a few days ago that i turned my life around maybe 4 years ago where i implemented running in my life on a regular basis in a new city, new environment. Also showering completely cold for most time of the year, as long as possible in the winter. This overall boosted my confidence in battling the addiction. Maybe that's why i was more able to battle it when i started my reboot this year.

 

[Orbiter]

Opening up is a tricky one isn't it? I've never been a fan of the idea even though it feels so wrong to conceal something like this from someone you care about who would be so affected if they knew.

On one hand, having someone who is aware of going on, supportive, caring, that you can work through this problem together with sounds amazing on paper. Also I think once suspicion from a partner becomes so high that they know somethings wrong, concealing it can become corrosive and ultimately lead to a relationship ending and you leaving a very confused & hurt person behind.

However support seems to rarely be unconditional and it could also throw fuel onto the fire of other problems in a relationship and I could imagine GFs of my past using it as ammunition in fights or arguments. There are also many women who do not and would not believe this is a real addiction, would look at the pattern of behaviors we've all shown over the years much less sympathetically and just think we're bad people who are calling the bad things we do an addiction to justify it and manipulate sympathy from others.

Rebooting is (to me at least) an enormous undertaking. There are a million articles and talks all over the internet about keeping a goal or an undertaking to yourself until you've made some meaningful progress or are ready. Telling people of goals & plans can not only trick us into thinking we've made progress we haven't but can also expose us to negative feedback, disbelief & criticism at a point where we are perhaps still too fragile to deal with this.

Luckily we have an incredibly supportive & knowledgeable community of great people on this forum we can turn to in the meantime.

 

[imsorrynotsorry]

Yes, it is tricky and therefore one has do decide by oneselfes if it is helpful.
I say, it depends on how, when you say it and what you say. In general it's always helpful for a relationship to be honest about issues, because showing vulnerability is opening up and giving the partner the chance to also meet other parts of a person. It leads to deeper understanding of actions and it builds trust.

I remember my girlfriend telling me about her mental disease and i was okay with it. I thought 'hey, it's going to be alright when you treat it'. This was the beginning. Long term i always had the feeling that i have to do something, because i fix things when they're broken. This was very frustrating for me and i also took that to build up pressure against her. In retrospective, i could've done it better. So maybe, everyone can ask himself 'how would i react?"

In terms of PMO nothing is happening really. I had some problems sticking to my rule of not touching my man without purpose, but i'm improving on this again. It sounds completely dumb, but back in the days i did touch myself without reason, playing around or stuff like that, like it's a toy.

From time to time, really rare, i have this feeling of MO & do some fetish stuff again. I can't go into details, it's just a feeling that i have. Really rare and it feels like it will not fade. We'll see.

Just watched the new video from GabeDeem and although i knew most if it already it was very helpful to remind myself again of what's going on. Also i liked the comparison of a broken bone, which one would rest completely (hard mode) and then working back to health again (soft mode). Most time of my reboot i was in soft mode, because i didn't suffer from severe PIED back then. Hopefully i will be completely rebooted after two years or so.

In the last week i figured that my mind is working better. I remember things for myself better and i also remember things from people around me and i remind them of things. It's like i feel more grounded and easy. Hopefully it stays that way, because i want to improve on my behavior when i'm with people.

It's only two days when i hit 180 and although i thought of coming less to this community, i feel i'm not completely ready for leaving it most of the time. Maybe i find another solution to come here often. Two or three times a week would be good, we'll see and i don't won't to be overly correct on this.

Morning wood is rarely here at the moment. In general, i'm too busy to be intimate with the GF at the moment. This must improve after this weekend.

Day 178:
Urge to PMO 0,5/10
Libido 5/10
Beer consumption 5/10
Chocolade 6/10
Morning wood 4/10

 

[EarthWalker]

Hi, Imsor.

About mental diseases. I think everyone has some sort of mental issues. Differences are just in degrees. Acknowledging and knowing what the problem is 50% of the solution. I am also getting hopeful as the psychology improved quite a lot in the last 20-30 years. But a good psychologist is a hard find.

About MO. Maybe you are still in flatline? There are levels to flatline. I think MW might be a good indication of flatline status? I think best if you try to avoid the MO until MW returns.

It is normal at this stage to get curious. The mind will throw some curveballs. Curiosity killed the cat. Don't let it kill your reboot.

We are at the tail end of the recovery distribution.

Keep on trucking man.

Wish you all the best.

EW

 

[Gigili]

Thanks imsorrynotsorry and Orbiter for addressing my question. I am more inclined towards the Orbiter's response. Although our partners can be supportive, ultimately it is us who need to do the action. My partner cannot control my behavior. If a porn addict wants to watch P, he will find a way to do that. I'm sure that having an accountability partner is helpful but I don't think the GF/wife can be the accountability partner.
I think as long as the things are under control and we are making progress, there is no need to be extra open about the issue as it might make more harm than good. This is not true for some people of course and it depends on the situation. IMO if one can overcome the addiction with all these wonderful resources that we have now (this forum, good books and videos, tips and tricks from our fellows, etc) there is no reason to bug the relationship with opening up. As I said this might not be true for everyone since concealing the addiction might make relapsing easier.
At least in my case I am not yet convinced that I cannot control the addiction without opening up much. I might be proved wrong but as long as I am making progress there is a chance.

 

[Orbiter]

At the end of the day, I believe it depends on you, it depends on her and it depends on the dynamic of your relationship and how much strain you, her or it can take. This is a complex issue and certainly not black & white.

I feel it wasn't clear in my original post but I should say that I AM NOT condoning lying to a partner, down-playing or trivialising her concerns, gas-lighting or any kind of manipulative, potentially abusive behaviour to cover up destructive, addictive habits. Trust & honesty is the foundation of all relationships human beings have with each other on every level and this is important to consider too. If it has reached a point the relationship is deteriorating from a lack of honesty, it is probably already long past the time to sit down and have an honest conversation about what is going on.

I guess i just feel this can too often go the opposite way in that people overshare in the hopes that it will ease their guilt over their own actions. People can also share to displace the burden of their addiction onto another person to make themselves feel better. There can be selfish motivations for sharing as well. Consideration should be given to their feelings, the relationship and how much is appropriate to share at a given time.

Addiction thrives in isolation and also creates it. I believe it is important at some point to open up to a partner about your struggles. I just think depending on where you're at in your recovery, you need to be careful of what you share, how much you share and honestly consider your reasons for doing so as well as what effect it will have on then and your recovery.

Everyone's different and every relationship is different. I guess what i'm trying to say is be careful, think before saying and make sure when you do it's the right decision for you and for your partner.

EDIT: Poor grammar.

 

[imsorrynotsorry]

(this post was written simultaneously with Orbiters last post)
When does an addict know 'if things are under control' ? You see, it's complicated. I did for years keep dark corners in my mind to conserve P there, just for the time i needed it. If one opens up to the partner, one can lighten up these corners and make it way harder for the addiction to exist, because it's 'out there'. It will be helpful in the end, i'm sure. Also if you suffer from severe PIED and your relationship is suffering because of it, then it's helpful to tell the partner, that there's a cause to it. Otherwise the partner might start looking for mistakes by themselves.

A few days ago i realised that i can talk and have fun with some old friends i've met, but i can't show any vulnerability to them. I don't feel that there is the moment or the real interest in my problems, nor talking about my emotions and weaknesses. I made me real sad, that i don't have friends around me where i could open up about what isn't working right. Here in RN we talk about our really personal things all the time, but in the 'outside world' there are only few places where i can be open about my emotions.
In my family there is no place for such a thing. I realised quite early that i don't must bother my parents with my emotions or anything, it was too much i guess. It's a huge maybe, but _maybe_ this also contributed to the growth of my P addiction. In my early teenage years, there was my mom with her new husband. Looking out for themselves.
And i just didn't learn to focus on my emotions at times. Nowadays i know better to stop for a while, asking my inner self what kind of emotion is there and what's bugging me and why. Then i talk to my GF about it. This should happen more often.

I would like to avoid MO for all time, if possible. I want to overwrite all the memorys with real intimacy with the GF. I don't want to give in to any kind of fetish thought or whatever. They most dangerous moment for a relapse is still coming home drunk. This must be avoided.

It's 180 days today and i want to thank all of you guys coming here and helping me in overcoming this. Especially i want to thank Shade, Orbiter, bilbobaggins, EarthWalker, babysteps, DoneAtLast and GabeDeem for creating and running this special space. I really appreciate the contributions from everyone in here.
I've come far now, but there is still a long way to go. I know about a few things in the upcoming months that could make my life way harder than it is right now. Most of them things are of private nature with the GF. Therefore, in matters of PMO, i want to reach christmas with a clean sheet. This is another 90+ days from today.

As i said before, i'm trying to come to RN only 2-3 times a week. Happy to see you guys again.

Imsor

 

[EarthWalker]

Hi, Imsor.

Awesome! I am very happy for you. Thank you for sharing your journey.

I think visiting a few days per week is still plenty. I like how you are keeping your guard up.

Have a great day.
EW

 

[imsorrynotsorry]

Even tough i've reached a landmark yesterday i have to make an emergency post today.

This morning when my GF and i were getting intimate, i couldn't stay hard. I felt so emberassed and also lost in my thoughts. Why is this happening and why is it happening after everything was working fine? I'm pretty frustrated right now, the feelings are still very fresh.

Maybe i lied to myself over the last two weeks. My libido decreased slowly and i felt it before we tried to be intimate, but i don't wanted it to be real. My libido has gone, and maybe EarthWalker, you we're right, i'm in a flatline again? Any thoughts on that from someone? I didn't MO'd or PMO'd, i didn't craved for anything. 2 Weeks ago, when i was in vacation with my GF everything was fine and we had sex a couple of times.

Now, opening up to my GF is quite an option. I said that i'm sorry and i don't understand why this is happening and she was all okay with it. It happens from time to time and she remembered that it happend more often when we got together nearly 8 years ago (after my first reboot). So, for her to understand that fuzz it's helpful to know. I have to find the right time.

I feel bad, i'm asking myself questions and i'm frustrated. Things come to mind 'what if _she_ isn't the right person for me?' and this really is making me sad, that i was thinking such a thing and not even knowing if it's real or not. Not nice and i hope, even tough i have no idea why, things improve somehow.

Of course i keep hanging onto the reboot, but this period is not what i expected. I want to overcome this and it shows me even more how bad that addiction is. PMO gave me nothing good, absolutely nothing of it is good.

 

[EarthWalker]

Hi Imsor.

Good. This is all normal. Part of the process. You will be fine.

Back to basics. Relax. Create distance between thoughts/triggers and response. Remember why you are doing the reboot.

Source the thought. What if _she_ isn't the right person for me? Where is this coming from? Is this coming from the addiction or is this the real you talking?

Talk to your body. What do your sexual organs tell you? What is your body telling you?

Maybe you need a period where the goal isn't to O? Gabe talks a bit about this kareeza. Maybe something to explore?

In any case. Take it easy. Don't be too hard on yourself. You'll figure it out. Have faith in the future. This will all make sense looking back.

Much love
EW

 

[Orbiter]

What EarthWalker said ^

Try to relax, put yourself in a place where you feel comfortable, free of distractions and take some deep breaths.

It could be a flatline, it could be you've got too much on your mind, perhaps there's a mental barrier to address. Just remember that going soft once in a while or just not being hard enough happens sometimes.

It's nothing to panic about and NOT A BIG DEAL. Just relax for awhile and wait until you're feeling it again. You've gone 180 days (incredible by the way) so what's taking it easy for a few until you've got a bit of your 'mojo' back? Just relax, don't force yourself to do anything you're not feeling and make sure not to overthink it.

You've got this!

 

[imsorrynotsorry]

Hey EarthWalker and Orbiter,

thank you very much for your responses and you both are absolutely right.

It's just that i can't "feel" anything down there right now. Normally i feel that if i would touch myself, it would just cost me a minute to O, but this exact feeling has vanished. This causes anxiety over a long period flatline and this leads to a feeling of sadness, to be honest with you. I don't want to be sad, but it's like this.

I want to start with a yoga routine to increase or awake libido again. I hopefully find the time to manage the routine daily, but at first i have to learn the exercises correctly before i start. I tried one routine today and it felt good.

For the next weeks i want to stop drinking alcohol. It's not good for me right now.

Today i spoke with the GF again about what happened yesterday and that i'm not feeling good about it. We hadn't had much time for this exact conversation and i felt that it's not the best occasion today to open up about PMO completely. I said that we must catch up on this again. She knows that i struggled with PMO in my past, but i have to be honest with the fact that i fell back during our relationship and only stopped completely 6 months ago. It will be no fun, but if troubles with flatlines continue, it's better that she is aware and knows what hardmode means, when i think i need a hard mode.

Today and yesterday morning wood was 9/10, but didn't last long after waking up. Libido is not existing.

Day 182:
Urge to PMO 0,4/10
Libido 0/10
Beer consumption 6/10
Chocolade 6/10
Morning wood 5/10

 

[Orbiter]

Sounds like a positive, practical plan of action Imsor.

Looking forward to reading about how it goes!

 

[EarthWalker]

Hi, Imsor.

Awesome to read your post. You went over the addiction curve ball as it were a speed bump. Just keep on driving. Awesome!

I want to start with a yoga routine to increase or awake libido again.

It feels to me like you are trying to control the outcome. Control the situation. Maybe having preference for the outcome is preferable? Maybe take a bit of a step back and allow for the libido to return on it's own time? When the body will be ready? You cannot control everything. I find it exhausting to try and control everything.

Looking forward to reading your journal. Thank you for sharing.

EW

 

[imsorrynotsorry]

I see your point EarthWalker. Allowing it to just be there and do nothing, can be a good thing to unstress myself and give my body the time it needs. I want to do that with my thoughts, i don't want to be stressed because of it. For me, some yoga gives me the space to relax in the brain and focus on my libido. It's a bit like, there's a problem and i care for it, so i can be at ease. But again, thanks for that advice. Maybe it will help me when times get worse.

I learned a bit about the yoga routine today. Maybe i can share it when i know what i'm talking about.

I will write in some other journals asap, but right now i have to deal with my stuff.

 

[imsorrynotsorry]

I finally opened up about the addiction to my GF and told her about the addiction. I opened up about some stuff without being super exact about dates, i wanted to tell her that PMO is an issue for me and  i'm afraid the libido drop is connected to the addiction. It went well.

The conversation started about me not feeling completely at health at the moment and we talked about what might is bugging me. And i said, some stuff yes, but the most is the no libido / ED part. From there we talked about everything that causes ED in life in general, then i threw in my addiction part and told her that ED is a symptom of PMO. She took it as another item on the list of probable causes and she didn't ask any more questions. I told her that the brain needs time and some guys struggle years after they stop PMO with ED. We talked a bit about it, not very deep though. It was nice that she recognized that i'm afraid of it and that it puts pressure on me. That i definitey don't need and we agreed that there must not be a situation soon where we would be intimate soon.

I'm a bit relieved now and i see that this whole topic isn't that big as i think it is in my brain. Anyway, i feel i can open up about it a bit more easier to her. Not too bad. I would've also understand her being completely upset about it, but that wasn't the case.

This was the huge thing today.
For my yoga project i got closer to my routine, the mula bandha and the breathing, also some kegel exercises. And i've learned, for having libido one needs dopamin and testosteron.
Will keep you updated on this.

 

[Orbiter]

I supppose sometimes all it takes is to be brave. Sounds like you made an important step with just the right amount of honesty and tact. Hopefully having had this discuss and the issue being more out in the open has put some of your recent concerns about performance in perspective.

Good luck with the routine too. Keep us updated on how it's going.

 

[beautywaytraveler]

Hello imsor,

We have talked on my thread before and I have seen you post on others occasionally, but this will be my first commenting on your thread. Cheers! I know many are grateful for you insight and  kind words, I am one of them. So firstly, thank you!

I see that you had a problem with ED recently. I was trying to see if you mentioned anything about your diet and excercise and stuff of that nature. Not to be judgemental but perhaps that could be one of the reasons for ED. I just thought I might share that.

I hope everything goes well in your relationship!

 

[EarthWalker]

Great to hear this Imsor. Just wanted to add that it is fine to say that you don't feel like going deeper into the details of X topic at this time as you don't find it will be productive at this time. This is perfectly valid strategy.

Wish you all the best
EW

 

[imsorrynotsorry]

I believe that there is no special cause for my PIED but PMO.
But i remember i O'd with my GF 3 or 4 times in vacation, 3 weeks ago.
After the vacation i tried to not 'glance' at girls too hard, because i sometimes can't look away. I'm still trying this, with medium success.
Also after the vacation i had 3 nights out with a lot of alcohol, thanks to my friends.
Diet didn't change, still doing intermediate fasting, which is a power booster for me.
I still exercise 2-3 times a week, didn't change anything here.
Time will show, i have to be patient.

This night i had a PMO dream. It was ugly and i was an observer. I really wanted to be in the act, but they didn't let me and finally i realized how absurd it all was. Then i woke up with my man hard. I checked if i had a wet dream, but i hadn't.

Maybe i'm overthinking this topic right now a bit too much and i give myself this weekend free of RN.

I've managed to not drink alcohol since last saturday. Great!

Day 186:
Urge to PMO 0,5/10
Libido 0,5/10
Beer consumption 4/10
Chocolade 6/10
Morning wood 4/10