how to handle when your spouse relapses?

[aquarius25]

How to handle when your spouse relapses? I have been mulling this over quite a bit. He has gone almost 4 years without porn or porn subs. I feel like the past 4 years has been nothing short of a psychopathic roller-coaster of emotion. A lot of hurt but also a lot of growth on both our parts. I feel like through this experience I have become a stronger person. I used to come on here almost every day or more and I received so much support. As I healed and worked through things I noticed I would come here not as much to receive support but more to offer support to others. As life got busier I just had less and less time and honestly I just felt good living life.

Fast forward to a few months ago. I noticed certain attitudes returning. Sex became less and less frequent and when it did occur it was not good. I noticed that my husband was becoming more and more focused on himself first. This attitude was in all areas of life but most obvious during sex. It was short and mostly him getting off and pretty much nothing else, no connection and frankly no fun. I tried to tell myself he was just stressed. All the regular excuses but honestly the reality is that I knew this behavior. This is the attitude of an addict. Why has this monster returned? Why would my husband throw away 4 years of progress? Why isn't he telling me. So I waited.

Finally, after attempting sex and realizing that PIED has returned I hit a point. I just said he needed to be honest and that I felt like he was viewing porn. He first denied it. Then admitted to not viewing porn but a few porn subs but not masturbating to them. Then he said he had been masturbating but not at the same time as viewing the subs. Every time its like he admits to a little more but is still insisting that he hasn't looked at any porn. I am less than likely to believe him. Plus there is the PIED, lol.

So how do partners process this? It feels like we are all the way back at square one and yet it feels so different. While on the one hand I can look and say "Look how far we have come! If we did it once we can do it again!". On the other I feel like I am not the depressed small person I was before. Do I really want to spend my life dealing with this shit? I deserve more that this shit! I don't want a repeat of the past 4 years. All the hurt and garbage, no way! He is not a terrible person. He is an ok father to our kids (I am not going to say he is stellar because frankly he is self centered) but he isn't naturally mean spirited at all. He is nice. We own a business together, we have a family. Is it really worth throwing in the towel? Is there really anything better out there? These are all the questions I feel running through my mind while I put on a good face and pretend to our customers and kids that everything is fine. When we are alone I just can't bring my self to even want to talk.  I feel less concerned with how he is doing and I am less interested in him as a person, and if I am going to be real honest I am not really even attracted to him right now. That may just be the emotion and hurt but that is where I am. Where do I go from here?

 

[Gracie]

Hey, I think we both took a break around the same time.  I do check in from time to time.  Wow, I don?t know what to say.  Only you know what your boundaries are.  But I would feel so betrayed.  And enforcing our boundaries is hard.  Especially when you work together and have the kids to home school.  Although I can say my husbands butt obsession and long hair preference was ongoing hard work for a number of years. So I would say what I saw and even now will say something if the look is on the glaze look side.  It has been 9 years since d-day.  I will post more later.

 

[aquarius25]

Hey Gracie, thanks for the reply. Yes things have been rough here. Adding the stress of being a small business owner during this quarantine is not helping. We are talking more. He claims that he has told us everything, yada yada yada. I don't think it really matter if it is true or not, it more that I have lost interest and care to try. I am thinking I just need to give it time. I believe in not making rash decisions when your emotions are running high so I am trying to pass the days. Trying to just do my daily life and not allow my mind to wander because when that happens I just get overwhelmed and unhappy. My kids don't need a mom depressed right now. When there is nothing consistent in the world I need to be the consistency for them. So for now that is where I am at.

 

[Me]

Hey Aquarius, I use to be on here before, our d-day is around the same time. I came back a wee while ago and started reafing again and then made a new acc as couldnt remember my old login details.

I'm so sorry to hear that things have taken a turn for the worse.
I agree with not making any decision while emotions are high, and even more so during this pandemic, especially with kids involved.

I reached the same place emotionally as you to, a few months ago. I'm not exctly happy right now but I'm not broken either, I think I just ran out of fucks to give about it anymore.

 

[aquarius25]

Me, yes! I completely want to say there are no more fuck left to give but then I think, if that were true than it should hurt this much. Does that mean there still are a few fuck left? Ugg. I feel like it would be easier to be indifferent however for some stupid reason I just can't be. It probably because it all too fresh. Like reopening an old wound but in the process of reopening it you realize its a bit deeper now sure there's old scare tissue but there is also some new damage that is pretty serious. My husband isn't really getting it, unfortunately. Sure he says he is not looking at porn and we have gone an entire 72 hrs without new information coming to light... Is that a sign I finally have all the info now? Who would know? But he isn't really addressing his desire and plan for how to heal us. To me that is the most important part. I am not removing the thought of packing my shit and leaving until he can tell me that he has a plan for us. I am not going to make a big move like file for divorce right now but I am not removing it as an option until I see some progress in this area and the longer he waits to not address this the stronger this rout appeals to me. Am I off base in this? Just looking for outside perspective. I feel like I am too close and not sure if I am able to see the whole picture right now.

 

[Me]

Is that a sign I finally have all the info now? Who would know? But he isn't really addressing his desire and plan for how to heal us. To me that is the most important part.

This right here I think is the crux of the whole issue, and seems to be the part that never got through to my husband, or he does get it but doesn't care (probably the latter). Stopping porn was never going to be enough. Whether your husband has not watched or has watched or has used subs/is using subs etc etc. I'm not sure that it matters. For me I think it just finally boiled down to me accepting that I'm not a priority to my husband. He's more than capable of researching things and really putting time and effort into things HE wants, but when it came to fixing the relationship or helping me hill it was liking pushing shit up hill. He would claim not to know what to do, or how to do it, have no plan, every excuse under the sun. He would only work on the relationship, or take notice of my boundaries if I made a big deal about it. If he can look up a hundred different things on google why can't he look up how to fix the marriage he fucked up? I can guarantee that not once has he bothered to search for anything to help, but he'll look up movie reviews or about computer games or read the news etc. 
So anyway I stopped bringing anything up, to see what would happen, how long would it take him to do a check in without me bringing up that he hadn't done one etc. He didn't, not for months and months. My boundaries just slowly got crossed more and more and it was obvious that left unchecked we would just be back at square one. I lost any respect for him or any desire to fix things and ended up telling him I'm only here for the kids, so now we just co-parent, and what the future will bring I don't know, as in i'm not sure how long this arrangement will work. I can't file for divorce as in my country you have to prove you've lived seperately for 2 years before you can apply, if I could live here and file I would.

Maybe you do an in house seperation, or maybe once things in the outside world have calmed down you could arrange to go away just you, or just you and the kids. Etiher way I think getting some space from him would help you more clearly see things, so you can decide whether you do still have some fight left in your for the relationship or whether your just flogging a dead horse.

 

[Gracie]

I have seen so many divorces here and at the other forum I was a part of.  I think that is the saddest part of this.  For me, it was different, I was older and the kids were on their own and we had grandkids..  Even though I got quite depressed and considered suicide, I ultimately decided I could not live without him.  So I set boundaries and an agenda that worked for me.  They were pretty strict.  I believe some of them are in my Journal?Surprise in women?s section.  But if someone wants to know just ask.  He and I read books together.  The best was Hold Me Tight, Seven Conversations for Love.  It is about communication.  We read it out loud to each other and then talked about what we read.  It helped reframe our talking about what happened how we felt and taught us ways to talk with each other as opposed to at each other.  It was the one with a teal cover not the red cover.  Getting my husband to understand truly betrayal trauma was important as well. That is allI got today.

 

[aquarius25]

Thanks ladies for the response. Gracie, yes I get it, we need to keep talking. I am trying but to be honest I am frustrated. I feel like if I am not the initiating the conversation than it doesn't happen. Yes, I have told him this more than once but it just doesn't seem to sink in or maybe he is too full of fear or he just doesn't want to. Either way he just doesn't do it. I am left feeling like the parent walking a child through the process of working through an argument with a friend of something. The problem is when I have to initiate all of the conversations it make me feel like his parent and not his wife. I am into interested in that dynamic with him. I feel like this behavior is something I am not attracted to at all and when he does this I feel like I loose attraction in him.

Me, I understand the dynamic of a marriage of convenience. I really don't want that. I know that technically I have grounds for a divorce and could file but I am not going to do anything like that until I am way more removed from the emotion of this whole thing. A weekend away won't cut it, lol. Plus with the quarantine right now it's not an option.  I hope that as time goes on maybe he will figure some things out and start communicating. Logically I know that relapses are part if this and staying in this relationship means dealing with them. Emotionally, relapses are terrible. They truly are crushing in so many ways. Maybe part of the frustration was that we had a plan of communication if he did relapse. I felt so much comfort knowing there was  a plan. (As you can tell I am a planner, lol) He just didn't do it, instead I have to be the one (again) initiating the conversation and clawing out scraps of information. Each time that I uncover more new info it's like a wrecking ball to any ounce of trust that is left. It is also a wrecking ball to any ounce of relationship that is left too. I feel like he tells me that he doesn't want to hurt me as justification for this hiding and lying behavior but the truth is he is scared and frankly being a coward and that is not attractive at all. So again, i am just going to give this some time. I am not going to make any decisions for at least 6 months. Let's hope things improve. In the meantime I so much appreciate having support here. Thank you ladies so much!

 

[Blank248]

Ok sorry to hear A25!! I think I was on here around the same time too, just recently I set a trap, I wont say how just incase he comes on here to check ha ha, so he failed, I know 100% he goes on private browsing, not sure for what, i mean he could be looking for a present for me so there is that, but sometimes the attitude isn't it, and the secretive ness !!!  Plus he knows, if I get any proof I am done, totally done. Its tough as you have children so you have to consider that, good luck with it, you know how to deal with it so its up to you ... Actually you are right, I have lost a little bit of attraction to my partner through all this, take care everyone who is suffering with this BS plus the lock down too you guys in the US its been tough, sending best of wishes and prayers to you all xx

 

[aquarius25]

Thanks Kimba. Its been rough but we are slogging through it.

 

[aquarius25]

I just posted in my journal about some of this but wanted to post here too maybe for feedback/ insight and conversation.

I am have been thinking a lot about my husbands relapse and what circumstances lead to it as well as everything after. Being in quarantine gives a lot of time to think, lol. So here is where I am at now. This is our first big relapse in almost 4 years. That is a big deal and a really long time making great progress. At the end of the day he is a porn addict. Not was a porn addict, is. I think we both stopped seeing that. I think for both of us our guard went down. We both got comfortable and we both felt that porn addiction was part of our past. The priority and focus became less important because it was years ago, right? Well no. We both understand now that this isn't something you recover from in a past tense sort of way. It is a daily decision for him to choose recovery or to feed his addiction. Either way he is still an addict. Today he is an addict in recovery. His recovery is his responsibility, my mistake was I stopped seeing him as one at all. By doing this I disregarded a big part of him as this is a part of him. He stopped staying focused and slowly his guard came down and he caved in. I stopped thinking that was even a possibility. This isn't the flu that you get over. I stopped understanding the battles he deals with everyday and started seeing him as something he is not, I stopped accepting that he is an addict. So when the relapse came it was devastating. It felt like I was right back at day one because I put myself right back there. I had slowly allowed myself to live in a world where I wasn't married to an addict anymore and the realization was hard, again! Being married to an addict requires you to choose him, all of him, even the crappy stuff. You are choosing to partner with him even when it isn't fair and even. It is part of choosing to be married to an addict. It doesn't mean I can't have boundaries. It doesn't mean I am not important or that I don't need support. Is still have and need all of those things. It does mean that by committing to this man I am choosing the whole package. I am understanding that he is not perfect and there are days when he may not win this battle. He will still have maintain boundaries of honestly in our relationship but I am committing to also be supportive to him because I can't be his partner if I can't accept these things. For me, this is what it means to be married to an addict. I am staying because loving him, even when it hurts, it is better than life without him.

I understand not everyone will agree. Thoughts and support is welcomed and encouraged.

 

[doneatlast]

A guy posting here, I hope I'm not out of line.

A25, I've always loved your posts.  I've often referred women here to read what you have to say because you're so well spoken and clearly think things through carefully.  Seeing the pain this causes you, I am reminded why I wanted to quit in the first place.  I'm not married, but would like to be, and the thought of putting someone through that just breaks my heart. 

Speaking as someone who is a little over two and a half years without porn, I don't think a relapse today would set me back at square one.  If he has four years under his belt, I would say the same.  That isn't some small streak we're talking about, it is serious time away from porn, rewiring away from it.  It would be rough, my tastes for it would come back and I'd probably end up on a little bit of a streak back on porn, but I can't imagine it being like starting all over again. 

Speaking completely personally, I think something would have to change in my life to make me relapse.  I'm not going to try to say that I'm stronger than I am, but I've lost enough of my taste for porn that it isn't necessarily what I think of first when I am depressed, anxious, or just want a dopamine hit.  That white knuckle craving part is gone.  If his natural disposition is self-absorption, maybe it just took a little nudge of something, something to draw him in onto himself to make him go back to that fertile porn ground?  Drinking?  Smoking?  A lack of fulfillment at work?  Finding fulfillment at work can be a bigger deal for men than women... why women often handle unemployment and retirement better; you run a business together, maybe there is something you see there?  A return of some depression/anxiety issue?  I don't know.  Just random thoughts.  I do know that for a lot of guys trying to quit, those emotional obstacles are often the final boss, the thing that is hardest to deal with.  I had so many triggers and aspects all taken care of months before I had the emotional disposition, of dealing with the loneliness on Sunday afternoons, of social anxieties, of any of that taken care of.  Please understand that these speculations aren't me trying to make excuses for him.  I'm just thinking through a post-mortem if I were to find myself in the same situation.

 

[aquarius25]

Donethelast, I appropriate and encourage conversation you are welcome and encouraged to post. I like your insight.

Yes i agree there were triggers. Yes he isn't back at square one. If you read my last post, I feel I described it there best. I feel like I was at square one because emotionally I had put myself in that same place. The experience of discovery was 100% square one because I let all the progress I had made be forgotten. That isn't his responsibility. His relapse is his own, it does not define my worth. It is his choice. It took me a long time to learn that and when I needed to remember it I got too caught up in my emotions. Hurt can be such a tricking thing. I am learning mow and more what is mean to be in a relationship with an addict and how to love him and stay healthy myself. It isn't easy at all.

As for him and what triggered his relapse I would say social media. He closed his FB acc and instagram and everything for a few years. Recently we had a talk about it and I needed help with our business accounts and was feeling overwhelmed with all of it. We now have three businesses. Its a lot to juggle while homeschooling two kids too! He said he was ready and it was going to be fine. Clearly that was not the case. We both understand that now. Now if we pull back to the root cause of the relapse the truth is we both got comfortable. He let his guard down because he thought we was over his addiction. Now he is at an understanding that his addiction is a part of him. THis will be a tendency when he is stressed. He understands that about himself. He is an addict in recovery he is not recovered. There isn't a past tense it is an every day choice for him just as it is an everyday choice for me to choose to partner with him. That is at least how we view it. Good luck to you and your recovery.

 

[doneatlast]

Thanks for the clarification.  I definitely need to hear the "we" you use speaking as a community of partners of addicts, not necessarily always including your husband.  Your posts make a bit more sense to me now.

Thank you for sharing the bit about social media.  That is really a major datum for anyone in recovery.  I mean, I am often the first one in threads to say that social media can be dangerous, but even I feel like I'd been underestimating it now.

 

[aquarius25]

Donethelast, yes Social media is such a huge trigger, we both underestimated it for sure! It is the equivalent of an alcoholic trying to continue work as a bartender. It is possible, yes, but not without extreme self control and defiantly would be difficult at best. I think for my husband due to the fact that he was using facebook profiles of some of our friends as some of his MO material. It was the height of objectification. It made the recovery more difficult as well as a huge trigger for him when he returned. He, and I, both thought it had been long in the past but I would say that was a huge mistake to think for sure. Thankfully this time he did not PMO to my friends again. I am very grateful about that.

 

[Supportive wife]

A25  my husband is going through the same relapse due to bloody Facebook! It makes me so angry and hurt. Have you taken steps to get him back on track?

 

[aquarius25]

Yes he is doing very well and I would consider back on track. We are in an interesting situation currently. Relationship wise we are good but he has some real decisions to make. See with the world the way it is today everything is online. My heart really goes to any and all addicts because I can't even fathom how triggering this must be.

Anyway our business pretty much requires him to be online. Facebook seems to be what everyone in this town uses as a communication tool. I am feeling really overwhelmed managing 3 different businesses and all of their social media needs while also doing everything else in my life. I have mentioned hiring someone else to the social media but the few people I talked to wanted a lot for it plus they wanted me to send them content. Well if I am going to do that I might as well just post the darn thing and save the cash. Anyway, I talked to my husband and explained the situation. He is always relying on me to tell him what is going on because he isn't using facebook. He acknowledged that it is a difficult situation and due in part because of his lack of self control. I admitted that I get a bit resentful because of this too. It is really hard. One of the things he has mentioned and has been pondering how to tackle is the realization that just not using social isn't really solving the problem, it is avoiding it and relying on other to do more work because of his lack if using it. He and I have been talking about how he can use social media in a way that is helpful and has stop gaps in place so if he is triggered he back out or at least has time to make a different choice. We have switched my Facebook account to a shared account (it has both our names on it). We are talking about sharing the accounts and maybe having him only access when he is at the desktop which is in a communal area of the house. He knows that having it on his phone is not something he is ready for.

At the end of the day I am glad to see he is figuring out and try to learn how to deal with this. By just not using social media he is just avoiding his triggers. He wants to learn how to live in a way where they are not longer triggers at all. I know this will take a long time but at least we are doing it together and he is communicating well.

 

[Supportive wife]

Yes he is doing very well and I would consider back on track. We are in an interesting situation currently. Relationship wise we are good but he has some real decisions to make. See with the world the way it is today everything is online. My heart really goes to any and all addicts because I can't even fathom how triggering this must be.

Anyway our business pretty much requires him to be online. Facebook seems to be what everyone in this town uses as a communication tool. I am feeling really overwhelmed managing 3 different businesses and all of their social media needs while also doing everything else in my life. I have mentioned hiring someone else to the social media but the few people I talked to wanted a lot for it plus they wanted me to send them content. Well if I am going to do that I might as well just post the darn thing and save the cash. Anyway, I talked to my husband and explained the situation. He is always relying on me to tell him what is going on because he isn't using facebook. He acknowledged that it is a difficult situation and due in part because of his lack of self control. I admitted that I get a bit resentful because of this too. It is really hard. One of the things he has mentioned and has been pondering how to tackle is the realization that just not using social isn't really solving the problem, it is avoiding it and relying on other to do more work because of his lack if using it. He and I have been talking about how he can use social media in a way that is helpful and has stop gaps in place so if he is triggered he back out or at least has time to make a different choice. We have switched my Facebook account to a shared account (it has both our names on it). We are talking about sharing the accounts and maybe having him only access when he is at the desktop which is in a communal area of the house. He knows that having it on his phone is not something he is ready for.

At the end of the day I am glad to see he is figuring out and try to learn how to deal with this. By just not using social media he is just avoiding his triggers. He wants to learn how to live in a way where they are not longer triggers at all. I know this will take a long time but at least we are doing it together and he is communicating well.

You are so strong and I really admire you for taking control. It's comforting to know when you have a willing partner (I do too) it can work.

I can only imagine how difficult it must be to run 3 business on your own especially online! And if I can do anything to help on that front let me know (I've been made redundant and am expecting our first child just after Xmas so permanent work isn't an option and there seems to be little to nothing available near me that's temporary and office based) so I have plenty of free time that I would gladly use to help anyone that needs it.

My husband explained to me that his relapse is different to the problem before. He said he stands at work when having a break or a cup of tea and will just scroll through attractive women while he's on the shop floor. He said he doesn't do it in the toilet to masterbate it's almost like an adrenaline rush that he knows he shouldn't look and now I know about it there is no thrill or desire to look.

I'm glad I found out before it went further as it would be easy to slip from just looking in public to 'shes hot let's wander off and touch myself'. I'm trying to be understanding as I know its a problem and he doesn't do it to hurt me but it does worry me. Especially in my 5th month of pregnancy when our lives are going to change dramatically soon. I've also been left with my own body image anxiety from feeling not good enough after last time and even though my body is still toned I miss my abs and don't show him my growing bump unless he asks to see it. (Don't even get me started on the terror I feel that I will hate my stomach afterwards, trying to keep focused on the fact I'm growing our Princess and that's my body's job, not being stick thin with big boobs and a peachy bum)

I also understand what you mean about removing Facebook completely its not treating the problem it's stopping it for now but it's not actually dealing with it. One thing I have done (it took a while) is go through all the notification settings in his Facebook and turned off notifications for 'people you may know' and suggestions for 'womens clothing you may like on market place' my hope is without the constant reminder and constantly being presented by Facebook with attractive women it won't trigger him. And if he does search for anything I can see that (I'm logged into his Facebook too) and the fact he knows that is a real put off and the anxiety that I would see he's looked takes over the thrill of looking. Hope that makes sense.

Overall I don't really know how to help him and I feel there is no help around. It's not like a drug addiction or alcohol addiction that's so well understood and there are plenty of professionals to help. I really do feel alone and wish someone would just tell me step by step what we need to do to overcome this

 

[aquarius25]

Supportive wife, thanks for the response and man I cannot imagine going through this while pregnant. That would be a lot of emotion to handle so my heart really goes out to you.

As far as social media I think at first a complete removal is important. For addicts they need a period of time where they are just removed, like detoxing. When they get to a point where they are ready than I think trying to figure out how to live with these things and still make good choices is important but not without some time away from their addiction first. As far as support, for us we read books together. Love you, Hate porn was both of our favorite. Reading and discussing together helped us build a language of communication that had been amazing. Also he came on here frequently, especially in the first year. Now he tries to pop on when he can but he is really busy. (His user name is metal22 if you are curious, lol) Another thing he did that was really helpful was he started attending SA (sexaholics anonymous) groups. In our area they only had an "Anonymous" group for men and basically men with any addiction would go. He was really nervous his first meeting but honestly is was really great for him. He got to meet other men who where were being vulnerable and open about their struggles. He said he has never really felt judgement and it really is a safe space. All of the guys just want to encourage each other to be healthy. As a wife, I thought is was really amazing. It took a big load off my heart to know he has support from other guys and that I didn't have to be his only support because I am dealing with my own hurt. Maybe you have something similar in your area?

The reality was at the end of the day my husband hit bottom and wanted to change. This is not something that we as partners can force or control. He has to want to deal with this, all on his own he need to come to that conclusion. If not it will always be a roller coaster of hurt and drama. Heck it is still a roller coaster even with the willingness but I just feel like everything is a lot worse if they aren't interested in getting healthy. Just like any other addiction the addict need to accept that they are an addict. A lot of times that involves some kind of "rock bottom". If your partners hasn't hit that yet than you have to decide if you can really stick around for where ever his bottom is? And if you can mentally handle the process of him getting there? If not than you need to assess if this is a good relationship to be in. There is no right or wrong answer. If he has hit is bottom and is genuine about getting healthy and repairing the relationship than that is awesome. The road isn't easy but it is a lot easier knowing you can do this together.