Started Friday July 3rd
- Thread starter TheNorman
- Start date
Thanks Joel. It has definitely helped me give myself a little bit of compassion. A bit of a rough day today, falling into some bad habits as far as deflecting and defensiveness. Definitely need to have more awareness about those things and more importantly not let them fester when they happen. Hoping to rebound tomorrow with a better effort.
Andrew1973
Active Member
This is a great post Norm. Your holistic approach to your recovery is an inspiration and causes me to question whether my own approach is too focussed on my fist fight with PMO vs developing a broader understanding and appreciation of why it became so important to me in the first place. Lots of food for thought. Thank you.
LetItGoAlready
Active Member
Hi TheNorman,
This is just a beautiful post, full of self-wisdom and honesty. I loved it.
This quote really stood out to me:
What I hear you saying when you describe the betrayal of your parents at a moment in your life when you were so vulnerable is that you felt rejected. We were all at our most vulnerable when we were children, and the very thought of being betrayed - even momentarily - by our parents has a way of sticking with us. It feels like an outright rejection of our love.
In your case, you couldn't turn to your parents to make you feel better and you were too young and emotionally immature to forgive them for being human. So, you did what many of us did as children: you turned to yourself to soothe the pain.
It's such a powerful insight to be able to see how this emotional event in your childhood has "cast a shadow" over your life, and I commend you for making that connection and sharing it with all of us.
This is just a beautiful post, full of self-wisdom and honesty. I loved it.
This quote really stood out to me:
What I hear you saying when you describe the betrayal of your parents at a moment in your life when you were so vulnerable is that you felt rejected. We were all at our most vulnerable when we were children, and the very thought of being betrayed - even momentarily - by our parents has a way of sticking with us. It feels like an outright rejection of our love.
In your case, you couldn't turn to your parents to make you feel better and you were too young and emotionally immature to forgive them for being human. So, you did what many of us did as children: you turned to yourself to soothe the pain.
It's such a powerful insight to be able to see how this emotional event in your childhood has "cast a shadow" over your life, and I commend you for making that connection and sharing it with all of us.
ntg2978
Active Member
TheNorman said:
Norman,
This is gold right here man. I often feel the same way; that P is not just P but it's an escape or a means to self-medicate. I also have had a lot to deal with from my childhood (abandonment issues, trust issues, etc.) and I find myself using P to run away from facing reality. I logically know it's stupid and will just cause more problems, but in the moment, it takes the pain away, and so I have, in the past, used it for that.
Like you, I've come to the realization that I don't want to live my life like that, and will not self-medicate with P any longer.
I commend you so much for being vulnerable and exploring your past. One quote that I love, regarding past hurts and pain is this: "What you resist, persists; what you accept, you gain the power to transform" I really believe that is true; oftentimes, we are running from what we believe is too painful for us, but in the end, it's really just us running from ourselves, and thus we never get a handle on that part of our lives. As we stop running and start facing the past and the pain of it, we can start to forgive others and ourselves for things, and find that we are more free in the present.
Really awesome you made these distinctions.
I am feeling such incredible support from you guys it really means so much to me!
UK: I am fortunate enough to know that P was a symptom of something else. For others it has a more powerful hold and that can create more of a struggle to overcome it. I very much believe that if I can work through those issues that caused me to turn to fantasy/porn/drugs/alcohol or whatever it was at that time, then those things won't have the same hold. I need to control what I can in the real world and pmo was just avoiding it hoping it will get better on its own. I have learned so much from you and your journey as well so please know that I am in a good place with help from great guys like you!
LIGA: I frustrate my wife so often when my parents do fucked up things because she knows how much pain they have caused me. I do love them but in glossing over those things they've done I am turning myself into a victim all over again. I'm not trying to turn them into villains, but sometimes you have to recognize that people you love also make mistakes, some with much larger consequences than they could ever know. One of the many things that came out of that session was a strong desire to express to my parents how much that and other incidents from my childhood really hurt me. I have never wanted to talk to them about anything so that alone is an incredible gift.
NTG: My therapist has said that it is very normal to avoid pain. Pain is a warning that you're in danger. When we don't know how to deal with pain, especially emotional pain we (and our primitive brains) do whatever it takes to get away from it. That quote is so true. I have been running from myself. I have been avoiding the embarrassment of not being to handle things better. What has avoiding done for me? It's just prolonging the pain.
I'm falling down a bit in my mindfulness, I'm becoming defensive and forgetful...but I'm getting stuff done still. I'm not checking out or hiding. I'm not perfect...but I'm better than I was.
Again, thank you guys.
UK: I am fortunate enough to know that P was a symptom of something else. For others it has a more powerful hold and that can create more of a struggle to overcome it. I very much believe that if I can work through those issues that caused me to turn to fantasy/porn/drugs/alcohol or whatever it was at that time, then those things won't have the same hold. I need to control what I can in the real world and pmo was just avoiding it hoping it will get better on its own. I have learned so much from you and your journey as well so please know that I am in a good place with help from great guys like you!
LIGA: I frustrate my wife so often when my parents do fucked up things because she knows how much pain they have caused me. I do love them but in glossing over those things they've done I am turning myself into a victim all over again. I'm not trying to turn them into villains, but sometimes you have to recognize that people you love also make mistakes, some with much larger consequences than they could ever know. One of the many things that came out of that session was a strong desire to express to my parents how much that and other incidents from my childhood really hurt me. I have never wanted to talk to them about anything so that alone is an incredible gift.
NTG: My therapist has said that it is very normal to avoid pain. Pain is a warning that you're in danger. When we don't know how to deal with pain, especially emotional pain we (and our primitive brains) do whatever it takes to get away from it. That quote is so true. I have been running from myself. I have been avoiding the embarrassment of not being to handle things better. What has avoiding done for me? It's just prolonging the pain.
I'm falling down a bit in my mindfulness, I'm becoming defensive and forgetful...but I'm getting stuff done still. I'm not checking out or hiding. I'm not perfect...but I'm better than I was.
Again, thank you guys.
Ok day, still not communicating enough with my SO which leaves room for her to make up things in her head. PMO is still not anything I'm remotely considering but money and upcoming (distance learning) school for the kids and getting back to some physical activity with my wonky back and covid are all causing headaches and sapping my ability to deal with things as effectively as I'd like. Making sure to keep my eye on that stuff because between the stress of those things and the complacency of feeling like PMO is not a problem is where slip-ups happen. Wishing you all a strong week.
Frustrated with the kids today. Somewhat short with them but SO helped me out a bit. Day was somewhat slow for work but didn't let it cause a lot of random internet surfing. Better mentally today than yesterday which is what it's all about. Hope all is well with you guys.
Thanks Joel. I feel like I've really grown so much since I started.
A lot to unpack from last night and today. I had another therapy session last night and it was another very eye-opening experience. In the past I would gloss over the issues with my parents as pointless to revisit as it wouldn't change anything. At the same time I continued to suffer as a result of those things. That memory of being lost was so powerful and traumatic and after EMDR I was able to see that it wasn't the pain of being spanked or the embarrassment of getting lost, but the disappointment in my parents reaction. Seeing through therapy how that moment shaped how much I kept things hidden has allowed me to give myself so much compassion that has really been missing. Something that porn does its best to rob you of as well. After talking with one of my brothers I have found out that he is in therapy as well for the way we were raised.
In my EMDR session yesterday I finally felt like all these memories of my parents just not handling things well were disarmed somewhat. It doesn't absolve my parents of guilt but it does allow me to not take their mistakes personally which to me feels huge. In my session yesterday there was a moment where 7 year old me and present day me were able to talk about what laid ahead and how we would have to keep hiding for a long time, but one day we could just be ourself. That felt, and feels absolutely amazing. To know that there is nothing to hide, nothing to lie about is just the most freeing, incredible feeling.
All of this growth and positivity wouldn't be possible if I was still turning to porn. There is no freedom for me if I can't be honest and authentic. That's why PMO hasn't been a temptation for me: I've found something that feels so much better. I hope you are all able to find that kind of peace and purpose.
A lot to unpack from last night and today. I had another therapy session last night and it was another very eye-opening experience. In the past I would gloss over the issues with my parents as pointless to revisit as it wouldn't change anything. At the same time I continued to suffer as a result of those things. That memory of being lost was so powerful and traumatic and after EMDR I was able to see that it wasn't the pain of being spanked or the embarrassment of getting lost, but the disappointment in my parents reaction. Seeing through therapy how that moment shaped how much I kept things hidden has allowed me to give myself so much compassion that has really been missing. Something that porn does its best to rob you of as well. After talking with one of my brothers I have found out that he is in therapy as well for the way we were raised.
In my EMDR session yesterday I finally felt like all these memories of my parents just not handling things well were disarmed somewhat. It doesn't absolve my parents of guilt but it does allow me to not take their mistakes personally which to me feels huge. In my session yesterday there was a moment where 7 year old me and present day me were able to talk about what laid ahead and how we would have to keep hiding for a long time, but one day we could just be ourself. That felt, and feels absolutely amazing. To know that there is nothing to hide, nothing to lie about is just the most freeing, incredible feeling.
All of this growth and positivity wouldn't be possible if I was still turning to porn. There is no freedom for me if I can't be honest and authentic. That's why PMO hasn't been a temptation for me: I've found something that feels so much better. I hope you are all able to find that kind of peace and purpose.
Good day of getting stuff done around the house, some nice walks with the family and a date night with my wife at the new local patio. The beer was excellent, the appetizers were fantastic, the main course was good and the dessert was totally overkill but delicious. I had a flight of different beers to try and then two more beers and I rarely drink more than two beers in a day so I am pretty tipsy. In the past I would sometimes be resentful that my wife always gets to have a couple drinks and it's always assumed that I will be the DD but tonight was a good reminder that I am agree to be the DD because I really don't enjoy being tipsy. I feel very sluggish and tired. We are going for breakfast in the morning and then apple picking with the kids so lots to look forward to. Have a good night all.
Woke up hurting from my night of drinking (the equivalent of less than 3 pints but a lot for me). Went for breakfast with the wife and then apple picking which was great fun. Then home, got lots of stuff done, had a nice session on the drum kit to really work up a sweat and then capped off the evening finally getting back out to run 5k. My god was it rough but I did it and that's all I'm worrying about right now. Back to the grind this week and the kids start virtual school so it won't be easy but I will manage.
Here's to a good week!
Here's to a good week!
workinprogressUK
Well-Known Member
Well done on sacrificing short-term comfort for longer term benefit. Would have been easy to regress, but you forced yourself to get out there and engage with life on the front foot. Similar story here about drink, wife, DD and the rest. Yesterday saw my first hangover in 5 Years! It brought home to me why it's best that I'm always the one who stays off the booze and drives, and why I shouldn't resent anybody for that. Booze isn't a good drug for many of us, is it?
I love having a beer or two, socially but typically just a nice craft beer in the evening. Helps that good craft beers are expensive as hell so even if I wanted to have three a night I'd be in the poorhouse real quick!
I had a long stretch of drinking for the wrong reasons in my youth and am very wary of returning to those patterns. Hangovers were something I just ploughed through, like most everything else really, when I was a young angry man. Now that I'm older (and sure feeling it) hangovers are a lot harder to push through! Having little kids really makes drinking a no-go for me as well. They don't care if their Dad was out partying or whatever, when it's the weekend they want to spend nice time together and since I've started on my journey the time feels so much better being the Dad that they think I am.
I had a long stretch of drinking for the wrong reasons in my youth and am very wary of returning to those patterns. Hangovers were something I just ploughed through, like most everything else really, when I was a young angry man. Now that I'm older (and sure feeling it) hangovers are a lot harder to push through! Having little kids really makes drinking a no-go for me as well. They don't care if their Dad was out partying or whatever, when it's the weekend they want to spend nice time together and since I've started on my journey the time feels so much better being the Dad that they think I am.
Another therapy session tonight and I am in awe of how much of a difference it has made. I look back at things from the past now without being overwhelmed by regret or guilt or sadness. What has happened can't be undone but it can be learned from and then acted upon. I feel like a bit of broken record in that I keep going on about being better equipped to deal with things but the not dealing with things is what allows porn to become the escape that it was.
workinprogressUK
Well-Known Member
Sounds like a real positive build. Great work! Looks like you've found a therapist that really works for you. Congrats.
Andrew1973
Active Member
Great work Norm - I feel as if we should rebrand you Stormin' Norm!!! Seriously - it's great to see your life flourishing from afar. Keep it up my friend!
Man I have been slacking in my entries. I'll make up for it by posting a novel 
I'm trying to recall the events of the few days between logging on but our kids have started school online last week, my SO and I had an impromptu date Saturday night, lots of cleaning around the house, dog-sitting, hikes in the woods, work...just so many regular life things that are all going well thanks to staying mindful, avoiding triggers, focusing on how amazing it feels to be present and without the weight of PMO. Things these days are by no means a picnic; there's still a worldwide pandemic, there's still my inlaws health issues, there's still the worry about my families mental health. I know in the past things that were difficult were an excuse to check out and turn to mindless youtube/PMO/daydreaming etc to escape having to deal with things. Every day that you deal with things and feel that accomplishment and peace that comes with doing something worthwhile and you build on that.
In the early stages of my recovery, before I was very deep into therapy, I questioned who I truly was. Was I this sexual deviant that ogled and objectified women, that was so weak that I couldn't manage to stay within my own mind without running away to PMO or whatever soother I could find? Was I truly a broken shell of a man that lied to everyone including myself to be accepted and loved? That is a heavy burden to willfully take on. That journey will probably resonate a lot with some of you as well. At the beginning you will question if you can even make it. You will question if taking that journey is even worth the bother, because you're not sure you are even fixable. You will worry that you won't be able to fight through that pain because PMO is a band-aid that prevents you from dealing with pain in the first place and that's why it is so powerful and dangerous.
I have paid hundreds of dollars for therapy. I have removed myself from situations that would make PMO easier. I have confessed everything to my partner. I have read online articles and books about pornography addiction. Those are the steps I have taken to get to where I am now. They won't be the same for all of us but they have worked for me. I want to lay out some of those things in more detail because that's what guys like UK and WIP and Leonidas and Joel and so many others have done and the details are important so here they are:
Therapy
It is expensive. If you can afford it then there is no better money you will ever spend. Think of your mind as a pair of glasses. If there is smudges (shame) and dirt (PMO) and scratches (trauma) and on and on - you will never be able to see things in all their crystal-clear beauty. Therapy will provide you the tools you need to clean and fix the way you see yourself and your reality. For me, before therapy, I had a very distorted view of myself and my reality even without porn. Porn became a problem because I was already in a vulnerable position. Get whatever help you can to solidify those underlying foundations that will make you stronger in your fight.
Through therapy I was able to give myself some desperately needed compassion. That is crucial. Without allowing yourself that forgiveness you will struggle in your journey because when it gets tough you won't feel like you're worth fighting for.
I also worked on something called a life map. It is a tool that helps you visualize what it is that you're working for. A lot of us have families. Think about a future in which you don't have to worry about your partner using your phone or computer at risk of what they might find. Imagine your kids telling you what an awesome Dad you are and you BELIEVING it because you aren't buried in shame or self-loathing.
The https://www.nicabm.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/NICABM-InfoG-window-of-tolerance-revised.jpg is a good visual to show you how many of us get triggered and turning out-words into anger and frustration or inwards into fantasy and avoidance. Therapy/reading/mindfulness are all tools to expand that window and give yourself room away from emotional reactions. Breathing is also a very powerful and important tool that I myself need to use much more.
As for the other steps I have taken, going to bed earlier and reading instead of staying up by myself is obviously a sure-fire way to avoid PMO. I've read and enjoyed so many books, gotten so much more sleep, and have physically removed myself from devices (which are the vehicle to PMO).
A large part of my progress has been dealing with issues and not letting them become bigger than they need to be. Therapy and mindfulness are the tools that make that easier. Also, when you deal with things you feel accomplished and positive. It's very important to soak that in and continue to pursue those positive feelings because that is what this is all about: Trading in bad mechanisms for positive ones. A good example is ogling. I was bad for looking at women and allowing that to fuel PMO and an overall unhealthy and de-humanizing view of women and myself. At the beginning of my journey I was very cautious about being out and about and seeing women out of fear that would be a trigger for me. Instead what I have found is that in the absence of porn, viewing women in a non-objective way is not only much easier but I feel more and more empowered by how little it phases me, again, using that positive self-awareness as fuel to continue good habits.
So I will stop for now and be better about posting more frequently so they aren't such a mass of text.
Trigger warning: I overall have avoided MO as I was not sure how that would be without porn entering my mind. I did MO a couple times early on after some affectionate time with my SO but then went quite a while without doing so again. My SO and I also avoided sex as again, I wasn't sure where my head would be at when it came to that. I am very happy to say that we did take that step, porn did not enter my mind at all and the emotional connection that went along with the physical made it so much more wonderful than in all the years we have been together. Adding (healthy) sexuality back into my life just makes the future that much brighter!
Keep fighting, keep working, keep getting back up when you fall. You are worth the effort.
I'm trying to recall the events of the few days between logging on but our kids have started school online last week, my SO and I had an impromptu date Saturday night, lots of cleaning around the house, dog-sitting, hikes in the woods, work...just so many regular life things that are all going well thanks to staying mindful, avoiding triggers, focusing on how amazing it feels to be present and without the weight of PMO. Things these days are by no means a picnic; there's still a worldwide pandemic, there's still my inlaws health issues, there's still the worry about my families mental health. I know in the past things that were difficult were an excuse to check out and turn to mindless youtube/PMO/daydreaming etc to escape having to deal with things. Every day that you deal with things and feel that accomplishment and peace that comes with doing something worthwhile and you build on that.
In the early stages of my recovery, before I was very deep into therapy, I questioned who I truly was. Was I this sexual deviant that ogled and objectified women, that was so weak that I couldn't manage to stay within my own mind without running away to PMO or whatever soother I could find? Was I truly a broken shell of a man that lied to everyone including myself to be accepted and loved? That is a heavy burden to willfully take on. That journey will probably resonate a lot with some of you as well. At the beginning you will question if you can even make it. You will question if taking that journey is even worth the bother, because you're not sure you are even fixable. You will worry that you won't be able to fight through that pain because PMO is a band-aid that prevents you from dealing with pain in the first place and that's why it is so powerful and dangerous.
I have paid hundreds of dollars for therapy. I have removed myself from situations that would make PMO easier. I have confessed everything to my partner. I have read online articles and books about pornography addiction. Those are the steps I have taken to get to where I am now. They won't be the same for all of us but they have worked for me. I want to lay out some of those things in more detail because that's what guys like UK and WIP and Leonidas and Joel and so many others have done and the details are important so here they are:
Therapy
It is expensive. If you can afford it then there is no better money you will ever spend. Think of your mind as a pair of glasses. If there is smudges (shame) and dirt (PMO) and scratches (trauma) and on and on - you will never be able to see things in all their crystal-clear beauty. Therapy will provide you the tools you need to clean and fix the way you see yourself and your reality. For me, before therapy, I had a very distorted view of myself and my reality even without porn. Porn became a problem because I was already in a vulnerable position. Get whatever help you can to solidify those underlying foundations that will make you stronger in your fight.
Through therapy I was able to give myself some desperately needed compassion. That is crucial. Without allowing yourself that forgiveness you will struggle in your journey because when it gets tough you won't feel like you're worth fighting for.
I also worked on something called a life map. It is a tool that helps you visualize what it is that you're working for. A lot of us have families. Think about a future in which you don't have to worry about your partner using your phone or computer at risk of what they might find. Imagine your kids telling you what an awesome Dad you are and you BELIEVING it because you aren't buried in shame or self-loathing.
The https://www.nicabm.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/NICABM-InfoG-window-of-tolerance-revised.jpg is a good visual to show you how many of us get triggered and turning out-words into anger and frustration or inwards into fantasy and avoidance. Therapy/reading/mindfulness are all tools to expand that window and give yourself room away from emotional reactions. Breathing is also a very powerful and important tool that I myself need to use much more.
As for the other steps I have taken, going to bed earlier and reading instead of staying up by myself is obviously a sure-fire way to avoid PMO. I've read and enjoyed so many books, gotten so much more sleep, and have physically removed myself from devices (which are the vehicle to PMO).
A large part of my progress has been dealing with issues and not letting them become bigger than they need to be. Therapy and mindfulness are the tools that make that easier. Also, when you deal with things you feel accomplished and positive. It's very important to soak that in and continue to pursue those positive feelings because that is what this is all about: Trading in bad mechanisms for positive ones. A good example is ogling. I was bad for looking at women and allowing that to fuel PMO and an overall unhealthy and de-humanizing view of women and myself. At the beginning of my journey I was very cautious about being out and about and seeing women out of fear that would be a trigger for me. Instead what I have found is that in the absence of porn, viewing women in a non-objective way is not only much easier but I feel more and more empowered by how little it phases me, again, using that positive self-awareness as fuel to continue good habits.
So I will stop for now and be better about posting more frequently so they aren't such a mass of text.
Trigger warning: I overall have avoided MO as I was not sure how that would be without porn entering my mind. I did MO a couple times early on after some affectionate time with my SO but then went quite a while without doing so again. My SO and I also avoided sex as again, I wasn't sure where my head would be at when it came to that. I am very happy to say that we did take that step, porn did not enter my mind at all and the emotional connection that went along with the physical made it so much more wonderful than in all the years we have been together. Adding (healthy) sexuality back into my life just makes the future that much brighter!
Keep fighting, keep working, keep getting back up when you fall. You are worth the effort.
Adding (healthy) sexuality back into my life just makes the future that much brighter!
That's such an awesome step, Norm. Nice one. Such an important part of PA that isn't talked about enough here. I've often tripped by purging porn from my life and mind, but then have trouble finding my connection and sexuality without it. Have been struggling myself, but am seeing small kernels of progress
That's such an awesome step, Norm. Nice one. Such an important part of PA that isn't talked about enough here. I've often tripped by purging porn from my life and mind, but then have trouble finding my connection and sexuality without it. Have been struggling myself, but am seeing small kernels of progress