How Shall We Escape?

[Phineas 808]

Important Abstinence Quotes

Here is a post of short but powerful quotes from the world of recovery (not recoveryism) that will help to keep me sharp and focused, as I seek an abstinence that leads to lasting habit change.

I'll add onto these quotes as I encounter or discover ones worth posting.

Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom. - Viktor E. Frankl

Don't let the past steal your present. - Terri Guillemets

The only person you are destined to become is the person you decide to be. - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Experience is not what happens to you, it is what you do with what happens to you. - Aldous Huxley

If you can quit for a day, you can quit for a lifetime. - Benjamin Alire Sáenz

Believe you can and you?re halfway there. - Theodore Roosevelt

Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Be stronger than your strongest excuse. - Unknown

When your past calls, don't answer. It has nothing new to say. - Unknown

Recovery is hard. Regret is harder. - Brittany Burgunder

Life doesn't get easier or more forgiving, we get stronger and more resilient. - Steve Maraboli

That which does not kill us makes us stronger. - Friedrich Nietzsch

Rising from the ashes, I am born again, powerful, exultant, majestic through all the pain. - Shannon Perry

You feel your strength in the experience of pain. - Jim Morrison

Sometimes you can only find Heaven by slowly backing away from Hell. - Carrie Fisher

Success is the sum of small efforts, repeated day in and day out. - Robert Collier

If we are facing in the right direction, all we have to do is keep on walking. - Zen proverb

If things go wrong, don't go with them. - Roger Babson

Fall seven times, stand up eight. - Japanese proverb

Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, ambition inspired, and success achieved. - Helen Keller

The secret of change is to focus all of your energy, not on fighting the old, but on building the new. - Socrates *

*Character from Way of the Peaceful Warrior, by Dan Millman

 

[LetItGoAlready]

Hi Phineas - So many great, inspiring quotes here. Thanks for posting these! My personal favorite is the one about not answering when your past calls. Too many times I've made the mistake of picking up when I should have let it ring. I mean, hell, every time I go down the rabbit hole, I'm answering the call of my past. It's so simple yet so hard to master that skill.

Wishing you another day of not picking up when/if the call comes in. Just let it ring while you continue kicking ass in life, my friend. Take care.

 

[Phineas 808]

Below is a quote from a user [unnamed] who posted this (while inebriated) on 12/28/21:

Note: I didn't know at the time that he was posting this drunk, but it ended up preceding my acting out to PMO, Px2 that night, and the following day. We had since reconciled, and he realized the error of posting inebriated, and (hopefully) his black-and-white thinking.

Bro, don't get mad at me by saying this but how old are you? There comes a day when the absolute abstinence needs to start. After so many years, how long will you plan to edge and watch p-subs? How long will you leave room to small shit like that? I think it's enough for you. I think it's time to go all the way completely and never touch any of that shit again. I don't want you to think I'm being mean, I just wish someone ever said this to me. I am 31, this could easily turn into a relapse/restart marathon for life. Do you feel you have everything under control? Then you don't need edging to p-subs. How did Gabe Deem go all the way 2 years without absolutely nothing? Why can't you? Why can't I? We can.

My reply:

No. I'm not mad at you, because I can tell the place it's coming from. Others may have said something similar in the past, but they came from a place of pride, and I wouldn't have answered them. But I sense your honesty.

This is important, because I want to be honest in my own journal. And I could, with no problem, fight this thing without this forum (as I did before), if need be, if I can't feel safe or supported in my journal. But I'll answer your questions as they come from misperceptions.

This is a matter of perspective- even saying, 'How old are you...?' It's true to ask, 'How long do you want to struggle with this, your whole life??' And for me, to varying degrees (if you read my first post on page 1), I've literally been struggling with some form of this same thing for my whole life... But, this doesn't mean that my life's been a failure, because I've experienced several layers of victory over this thing.

Again, there are layers of hurt and brokenness that are being healed, and this doesn't occur over night. It's true to say that victory over this habit could theoretically happen in a matter of 3 - 4 months time, any of us, no matter how hurt or traumatized in our life, can radically change and even defeat our habits toward P, PMO, or MO. This is true of me, too, however I recognize that several of these issues are deeply rooted in inner needs and brokenness that are still being healed, even in my 50's.

Unnamed: There comes a day when the absolute abstinence needs to start.

Absolutely! But, and here is when perspective comes in, absolute abstinence starts for me every day (except I'm acting out in an extended time period). Even if I've lapsed, relapsed, or had a period of binging (as an example), absolute abstinence starts (or restarts) the moment I forgive myself, (re-) commit myself to my plan, or modify my plan, and fire up my motivation as needed.

I'm the guy who brought out the unpopular term 'serial-relapser', and why? As something to motivate myself- as something I don't want to be. The term 'recoveryism' is something you'll find in AVRT and 'Rational Recovery', because it's the mindset that you're deeply flawed, and will likely always be an addict. I don't believe this about myself, I refuse to embrace that mentality of 'once-an-addict-always-an-addict'.

This is why it's important to note my victories time to time, on how my habits have been getting better, how I'm making progress, despite an occassional lapse (to p-subs, edging, or even red-line behaviors). You're still seeing this as black-and-white, win-or-lose, sink-or-swim. And this mentality is why you find it hard to find your footing after a lapse or relapse. I'm not in that place any more, I refuse to go back. I'm very happy with the progress I've been making. This is why, even if I did lapse, I can bounce back relatively quickly.

Unnamed: After so many years, how long will you plan to edge and watch p-subs? How long will you leave room to small shit like that? I think it's enough for you. I think it's time to go all the way completely and never touch any of that shit again.

Again, perspective. Who are you to say that I, or someone else, is not going all the way? My purpose is to never touch that shit again, but I know myself, and that this is a process that has extended literally decades, but with very important victories. My plan (the very purpose of me having a plan) is to not edge or watch p-subs, to not leave room for it. This is why I address my social media, and honestly remark about how I know if it's being misused.

Contrary to what your words here suggest, I've been in the best place I've ever been (besides maybe 1990-91) in my recovery. This thing isn't about sheer will power. Even if someone had grabbed you by the shoulders when you were younger, and 'scared you straight', you could still fall if these things are an established habit, and especially if these habits were driven by deeper issues.

Unnamed: Do you feel you have everything under control? Then you don't need edging to p-subs. How did Gabe Deem go all the way 2 years without absolutely nothing? Why can't you? Why can't I? We can.

(To clarify, I don't edge to p-subs, though that's possible. Edging could occur later.)

My numbers and lengthier streaks indicate that I do have myself under control. This doesn't mean there's no struggle. That's when control is tested, perhaps lost momentarily, and then reasserted. You are projecting your black-and-white view onto others, and newer rebooters could be greatly discouraged by a post like this. Learn the difference between continuous control versus black-and-white view of control.

There is no one-size-fits-all approach to addiction. In fact, one would do well to try several approaches at once to overcome it. I can't answer for Gabe Deem, or others like him. He may not even agree with your assessment, but I'll let him answer that if he chose. We're all different, and our recoveries will not all look the same. It's very unfair of you to hold someone else's experience as if it should be the 'golden rule' for everyone.

This isn't a sprint, but more like a marathon. It's not endless, and it doesn't have to be life long (unless it is). But it is not a thing of will power alone. Yes, I can and you can, but this ability plays out differently for everyone, because everyone is different.

 

[Joel]

if you think something may trip you up in the future, or something represents a compromise to what you're trying to accomplish.

totally agree.

Love the quotes, very inspiring. Have a great start to the week, Phineas.

 

[Phineas 808]

[Notes to Self]

1. I joined Reboot Nation originally (2014 - 2019) having discovered the forum through my research on how to quit this addiction. I liked this forum for it's counters. Users had green-colored ones in their signature which you could create for different goals like PMO or MO. Or you could have two counters.

2. When I joined RN it was originally for its counters, and the social aspect was only secondary (as noted here).

3. The social aspect of RN has more than once preceded (or 'cued') lapses or episodes, or were negatives in lieu of a lapse (Escape, UkGuy, Freddy Prince).

4. Posting updates itself has cued or preceded lapses or episodes, as was true May 30, 2022. In lieu of that possibility, I posted my first goodbye on the next day. The outpouring of response was overwhelming.

I also stopped counting days- until I returned to it.

5. Conclusion on RN (as noted in hard journal):

Here's the conclusion: RN is a tool first and foremost for myself. If I need it for goal making or day counting or lapse tracking or for extra focus (my links), then I'll come on. Otherwise from this point on I'll do this without coming on 2, 3, 5 times a week- Maybe 1x a week, and just to update my numbers and read journals I follow closely- but to keep to myself unless someone needs my help (asks for it) or engages my journal. Will I post weekly journal entries? Maybe not. If I hit goals, go [back] into tripple-digit territory, good for me, good for my family, and good for my goals. No one else need know - unless they ask... I will indeed be "the G**** of RN." This is called moving on, and doing this on my own. That is for what I'm training for, anyway, right?

6. Blondie, as expected, reached out via message (both on 7/31, 9/4). It was good of him in doing so. I was very candid, that I was trying to hit a certain mini-goal and being quiet in doing so. I indicated that I was kind of moving on. I feel I said 'too much', but he was gracious. It felt like 'goodbye'.

The second time (9/4) I didn't say anything about the unwanted behaviors, and was courteous but brief. The way forward. He's all about it, everywhere, often on...

7. Today (8/7/22) I posted hitting my best for the year, and that I was going to be quiet on the forum, not a goodbye as such.

8. On 8/12/22 I decided to no longer count days, no longer set goals, but to --> Just live life free from P, PMO, or MO.

9. I had nearly 2 years of abstinence (with more or less struggles and victories):

1) Between July 2017 and July 2018;

2) Between March 2019 and March of 2020.

What played a major role in lapsing from these periods of abstinence was phone and social media habits, as well as struggles to end that friendship. Note that the 2nd period was entirely without RN, and the 1st period was with RN greatly minimized. Note again, each of the periods above were a continuance or stemmed from an abstinence challenge that was successful.

10. I deleted my original RN account and journal(s) on January 9, 2019. I wrote then:

"...I deleted my journals and account at Reboot Nation! I found that my new journal- not once but twice- played a role, not in preventing an episode of acting out, but in assisting it! So any future journaling on that subject will be here [hard journal] - where it belongs."

11. Still interacting on RN, but I noted my New Approach here and here and here.

12. Was asked to be a moderator on RN, and I accepted. It was known that I was trying to distance myself ("...out of sight, out of mind"). Have to find a new relation now, where I do a diligent job as a moderator, but at the same time distance myself?

13. The above quandary has been resolved in two parts:

1) The promises to myself to move on, made since at least November 2021, far outweigh any promises thereafter; and-

2) The lack of interaction and concern render any need to explain moot.

14. Purpose here quickly diminishing, despite role. Received message from Z to 'kindly not leave comments' on his journal (unfollowed). He took what was meant as supportive to be dismissive. This one being 2 weeks out feels more free, whereas that one, being 3 years out is still a slave to his brain and his environment. At least he can utilize his journal...

Tried to utilize my journal, but B. chimed in with a saturated 'old paradigm' approach, identifying with this one in an unhelpful way.

15. In reference to note #14. above, see this. This discusses what this one has also witnessed from one who's always 'out there', or 'on here' as the case may be. Another is B. Like, shouldn't you have moved on years ago?

 

[Phineas 808]

I must consider the source, on the ground running toward a more meaningful recovery.

What I mean is, when I find myself in certain behaviors (benign or vanilla, and non-p), why?

It could be that I simply saw something, and this served as a cue that led to urges arising. Or it could be something deeper.

I find that when I'm desperately (yes, there's a desperation involved) looking for beauty, whether in public or in pixelation, there seems to be a more emotional charge to it. The source is a deep emotional need, something that perhaps (hopefully) our significant other, our loved ones, our family can meet...?

Or, as in my case, I see that only God can meet that need deep within me. So, I'll turn it into prayer.

Another source to consider is spiritual.

First, I mean a spiritual hunger. This is similar to the emotional hunger but deeper. Again, this need is met by God in prayer and worship. He promises to any man who's thirsty that He, as the Living Water, will quench that thirst:

"...Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink." - Jn 7:37b.

"My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?" - Ps 42:2.

Second, and here believers will know what I'm talking about, there's sometimes a satanic component to our urges or struggles, that the enemy tempts us to sin sexually, especially if there's a high-stake in it for him in derailing you and I from being the man God created us to be.

For this, there's an actual praying against him, kind of like chasing off a dog- in Jesus' name.

Now, I'm not just theorizing or sermonizing, but these are things I've experienced. Especially lately, I had a strong desire as I described above, and it was more emotionally based, rather than just empty urges.

Hope everyone has a great week!

 

[Phineas 808]

Day 24! This is 3/15 toward my overall goal of 120 days.

Today I hit my goal of 24 days, and this is without P, PMO, MO, and all without P-Subs or edging.

Last week I did find myself admiring innocent pics of women on Instagram, and there was almost a desperation behind it. I didn't take this into any kind of violation of my goals, but I had to ask myself- Why?

This is when I soon realized that there was an emotional component to it. There was some emotional need driving this. It would have led into maladaptive behaviors. But instead I prayed into it, and sought the Lord's presence as my coping strategy in response.

Once I unmasked those emotional needs, without judgement, it passed.

Overall, I'm feeling really good about my escape! Yes, we can say 'Reboot', and it is that in a lot of ways, but I think of it as an escape, Joseph fleeing from Potiphar's wife that is pornography and lust.

Be well, All.

 

[LetItGoAlready]

Day 24! This is 3/15 toward my overall goal of 120 days.

Today I hit my goal of 24 days, and this is without P, PMO, MO, and all without P-Subs or edging.

Well done, Phineas! Proud of you, man.

Last week I did find myself admiring innocent pics of women on Instagram, and there was almost a desperation behind it. I didn't take this into any kind of violation of my goals, but I had to ask myself- Why?

This is when I soon realized that there was an emotional component to it. There was some emotional need driving this. It would have led into maladaptive behaviors. But instead I prayed into it, and sought the Lord's presence as my coping strategy in response.

Once I unmasked those emotional needs, without judgement, it passed.

I'm glad you were able to probe deeper and find the answer you were looking for. It's not always obvious what's at the root of a behavior, but when you are able to puzzle it out, it puts the behavior in a whole new light.

Congrats on your escape. Onward, friend!

 

[Orbiter]

Well said Phineas!

The ways we may be potentially over-complicating this process is something that has been weighing on my mind.

I also wonder if by over-complicating the process of recovery could be another, sneakier form of self-sabotage? Like we unconsciously create this narrative of how overwhelmingly difficult it is so when we hit urges, it is easier to justify relapsing.

Just a though.

Anyway great going Phineas! Keep up the good work.

 

[Phineas 808]

Thank you, Orbiter!

Yeah, I saw you voice this concern on your journal- and I responded there!

(maybe we were commenting on each other's journal at the same time!  )

Be blessed!

 

[Joel]

Thank you, Liga!

Listening to a podcast from Kathryn Hansen, author of Brain Over Binge, and she said that for binge-eating (I always look at the similarities with other addictions), there's only two things for them to focus on:

1. Dismissing the urges, and-

2. Eating properly when the body is hungry (instead of extreme dieting, kicking the body into survival mode, and hence back to the urges).

So I was thinking, what two things would we rebooters, recovering/recovered sex or porn addicts have to focus on?

1. Dismissing the urges, and-

2. Reconnecting with real life, real-world sex with a significant other (some would say, actual sex period), intimacy with others, emotional intimacy as well.

Simple, right? We get into trouble when we accept the over complicating theories of the 'disease-model' of addiction.

Be well, All.

Very true, Phin. I heard Matt Dobsheutz recently say (in response to a PA having trouble in the bedroom), it's not real progress if you stay clean/ don't binge by continuously fasting (yep, strayed into the food analogy there). I'm enjoying rereading bits of Jay Stringer's book - Unwanted, that says our sensuality and our Eros shouldn't be ignored - and now we're aware of how we've used these sensations negatively, it's time to celebrate them. I do find it tricky through as i've been tangling everything up for so long.

 

[Phineas 808]

Very true, Phin. I heard Matt Dobsheutz recently say (in response to a PA having trouble in the bedroom), it's not real progress if you stay clean/ don't binge by continuously fasting (yep, strayed into the food analogy there). I'm enjoying rereading bits of Jay Stringer's book - Unwanted, that says our sensuality and our Eros shouldn't be ignored - and now we're aware of how we've used these sensations negatively, it's time to celebrate them. I do find it tricky through as i've been tangling everything up for so long.

Thank you, Joel!

It's inescapable in many ways that sex is not necessarily meant to be a stand-alone (sorry for the pun) exercise separated from emotion and relational intimacy. Though for the purposes of rewiring, sex in the real world is better toward our healing than our habits toward fantasy, pixelation, and devices (like our iPhones).

In relation to detangling things and real-world sexuality, I've been thinking about the admiration of woman's beauty out in public. I think it's natural that this occurs as men, without it being necessarily some kind of objectification or lust.

While our eyes should only be for our significant other, I think that we shouldn't beat ourselves up for natural admiration.

Just some recent thoughts...

 

[LetItGoAlready]

It's inescapable in many ways that sex is not necessarily meant to be a stand-alone (sorry for the pun) exercise separated from emotion and relational intimacy. Though for the purposes of rewiring, sex in the real world is better toward our healing than our habits toward fantasy, pixelation, and devices (like our iPhones).

Phineas - Couldn't agree more with this statement. Rewiring to real world sex, and a healthy view of sex, is critical for healing. Well said.

Marvin Gaye even wrote a song about the healing powers of sex ("Sexual Healing"), which I thought of immediately when I read this post. As a side note, based on what I've read about him, he may very well have been a sex addict before the concept of sex addiction was really well understood, so I'm not sure he was so much looking to "heal" as looking to chase the "feel good" effects of sex. Here are some verses just for shits and giggles, as they say.

Baby, I got sick this mornin'
A sea was stormin' inside of me
Baby, I think I'm capsizin'
The waves are risin' and risin'
And when I get that feeling
I want sexual healing
Sexual healing is good for me
Makes me feel so fine, it's such a rush
Helps to relieve the mind, and it's good for us

 

[Phineas 808]

I just posted in the Pornography topic area a modified excerpt from Kathryn Hansen's book, Brain Over Binge Basics:

The Five Components of Dismissing Urges to P/MO

Come check it out, and enjoy!

 

[Phineas 808]

I am a man that does not use pornography or p-subs.

I am a man that does not masturbate or edge.

Though I appreciate natural beauty, I am a man that does not lust, ogle or objectify women.

I am a man in control of himself.

I am a man under grace, undergirded by mercy.

Pornography is not an option, ever!

 

[Orbiter]

I just posted in the Pornography topic area a modified excerpt from Kathryn Hansen's book, Brain Over Binge Basics:

The Five Components of Dismissing Urges to P/MO

Come check it out, and enjoy!

A fantastic & timely read!

 

[Phineas 808]

Thank you, Orbiter.

I was afraid it was too long of a read! I had already shortened it, too!

Grateful if it can be of benefit.

 

[Phineas 808]

Last night was very interesting...

My wife and I had sex, and it was good. Physiologically, everything worked well. But I do, time to time, use memories (vanilla) to help me stay focused without going into performance anxiety, which is the only thing that's caused ED in the past. I know that's not ideal, but for me it's like using snake venom to counter a snake bite... for lack of a better analogy.

Anyways, we both felt that total love and acceptance, the peaceful and good neural chemicals a married couple feels after they've made love, the contentment, the belonging, etc...

Afterwards, my dreams were very sexual, like, what part of my brain did I activate?? I don't know if there was a chaser effect activated or not, but I had several dreams that were pornographic or highly sexual. Not all, one dream was of making love to my wife, so that's good... But another had the type of situation or fetish that I've been habituated toward in typical episodes.

These are certainly internal cues, but any urges have been so far minimal. For the sake of accountability (first to myself, and to you all as well), I'm writing this now, just in case the [former] habits resurface with any force.

Be well, All.

 

[LetItGoAlready]

My wife and I had sex, and it was good. Physiologically, everything worked well. But I do, time to time, use memories (vanilla) to help me stay focused without going into performance anxiety, which is the only thing that's caused ED in the past. I know that's not ideal, but for me it's like using snake venom to counter a snake bite... for lack of a better analogy.

Anyways, we both felt that total love and acceptance, the peaceful and good neural chemicals a married couple feels after they've made love, the contentment, the belonging, etc...

I can relate to this, Phineas. Over the past few months, I have shifted between having ED problems while having sex with my wife and needing to summon fantasy as an emergency measure and being on the opposite end of the spectrum - needing no artificial stimulation and feeling completely connected and in the moment with my wife. It's a confusing thing to deal with for sure.

On the whole, though, it sounds like it was a good experience and helped you both connect on a deeper level, which should be taken as a positive sign.

Afterwards, my dreams were very sexual, like, what part of my brain did I activate?? I don't know if there was a chaser effect activated or not, but I had several dreams that were pornographic or highly sexual. Not all, one dream was of making love to my wife, so that's good... But another had the type of situation or fetish that I've been habituated toward in typical episodes.

Over the years I've come to associate erotic dreams with feelings of anxiety because there is always a point in the dream at which I become self-aware, realize what I'm doing, and feel guilty and/or ashamed and thus anxious. Not saying that's true in your case. Everyone's different. But perhaps the anxiety you were feeling around staying focused and not getting tripped up by performance worries worked its way into your subconscious?

These are certainly internal cues, but any urges have been so far minimal. For the sake of accountability (first to myself, and to you all as well), I'm writing this now, just in case the [former] habits resurface with any force.

Way to stay ahead of this and be accountable. Better to report urges while they are at the minimal stage if possible. I believe that helps rob them of some of their power. 

 

[Phineas 808]

On the whole, though, it sounds like it was a good experience and helped you both connect on a deeper level, which should be taken as a positive sign.

Thank you for your relating with my experiences, that definitely means the whole world.

Yes, I believe over all it was definitely a good thing. A far cry from the isolation, secrecy and anti-intimacy represented by porn.

Over the years I've come to associate erotic dreams with feelings of anxiety because there is always a point in the dream at which I become self-aware, realize what I'm doing, and feel guilty and/or ashamed and thus anxious. Not saying that's true in your case. Everyone's different. But perhaps the anxiety you were feeling around staying focused and not getting tripped up by performance worries worked its way into your subconscious?

I understand shame-based dreams, and when I get those. They're usually not very fun nor sexy, I can assure you. But they definitely remind me of guilt or shame when they occur.

These were more enjoyable, and I think may be simply related to the brain pathways etched out from p-use in the past, and the lower brain signaling that it misses its dopamine hits.

Way to stay ahead of this and be accountable. Better to report urges while they are at the minimal stage if possible. I believe that helps rob them of some of their power.

Thank you, Liga.

You're right about this... I do see that this is a desperate signal from the lower brain wondering why it's not being on 'drip-feed' as in the past.

During this time I have to be diligent without being hyper-vigilant, and hence, responding to urges- even with rational thought.