How Shall We Escape?
- Thread starter Phineas 808
- Start date
akpal2, that makes me so pleased that my journal is inspiring and motivational to you, and that the insights that are working for me (tried and true) are going to be practiced by yourself also. Definitely humbling.
What was before an undefeated monster, will become once again the vapid shadow that it truly is. You can and will take back power from all these outward things, and possess it where it belongs, within yourself.
I know, too, what it is to have sustained victory and yet relapse after a period of time... It sucks, but the noble thing is here, you beat it for a long period of time, and you know it can be done. This thing has been compared to heroine or cocaine addiction, but we can still take back our power, and see this thing in the rearview mirror of our lives.
Blessings!
Thank you, Chris Oz, for your words of encouragement.
Yeah, I know..., this is like my 3rd attempt breaking it off with this person, lol...! I spent most of 2020 without interacting, but after a while I miss them- and we always can pick it back up.
It's kind of a strange situation, but it is the right thing to do because it has to be a secret, which is the telltale sign.
It's difficult too, because it's not like I have so many real friends to pick-and-choose from.
Be well.
Yeah, I know..., this is like my 3rd attempt breaking it off with this person, lol...! I spent most of 2020 without interacting, but after a while I miss them- and we always can pick it back up.
It's kind of a strange situation, but it is the right thing to do because it has to be a secret, which is the telltale sign.
It's difficult too, because it's not like I have so many real friends to pick-and-choose from.
Be well.
@ akpal2 ~
I saw that, brother! Yeah, counters can be helpful, and at other times they can be counterproductive, ha!
I plan to count days only until my goal is reached, and then I won't focus on it so much. Perhaps I'll check the dates every so often, celebrate any major milestones (like 6 months, or a year, etc).
Keeping a counter, or counting days can be helpful to keep focus, keep ourselves accountable also. If- though we don't plan for them- in the event of a lapse, keep in mind your overall successes, and don't think that you're truly at 0. For example, say you've been trying for 1 month, but lapsed twice, you were still clean for 28 days.
By the way, your counter looks cool! The man on the right at the end of your goals, that represents the 'new you', right?
P.S., I added you to my 'buddies list'.
I saw that, brother! Yeah, counters can be helpful, and at other times they can be counterproductive, ha!
I plan to count days only until my goal is reached, and then I won't focus on it so much. Perhaps I'll check the dates every so often, celebrate any major milestones (like 6 months, or a year, etc).
Keeping a counter, or counting days can be helpful to keep focus, keep ourselves accountable also. If- though we don't plan for them- in the event of a lapse, keep in mind your overall successes, and don't think that you're truly at 0. For example, say you've been trying for 1 month, but lapsed twice, you were still clean for 28 days.
By the way, your counter looks cool! The man on the right at the end of your goals, that represents the 'new you', right?
P.S., I added you to my 'buddies list'.
Phineas 808 said:
It can be tough sometimes letting go of such close friendships, especially when friendships of depth, quality & reward can often be so difficult to come across in life. I still don't one hundred percent understand the exact reason you felt the need to break it off with her but I also don't need to. I'm sure you are doing the right thing by both of you, and the vacancy/void/emptiness in your life this creates is now open to be filled with something new, rich & also rewarding. After all, every sunset is followed by a sunrise right?
Chris Oz
Well-Known Member
Anything secretive has this power of enticement and pleasure in a way. It's very hard not to go back.
It's just like our addiction. The only way to really get rid of this is to be transparent with your wife or family. Come up to her and tell her what you feel. How you've been struggling to stay accountable and maybe what she can do to help if you need help in anyway to overcome it. Once it's open, I get you the urge and the attraction and everything loses its touch. It's like 'now everybody knows'.
It's gonna be harder than keeping it to yourself and trying to avoid the cues and thoughts of opening that friendship again. But once you do it, it's gonna be worth it. Your going to feel and free, lighter than ever. Burden gone. You may suffer initially because of maybe trust issues. But love, if it's there, will win again and again.
It's just like our addiction. The only way to really get rid of this is to be transparent with your wife or family. Come up to her and tell her what you feel. How you've been struggling to stay accountable and maybe what she can do to help if you need help in anyway to overcome it. Once it's open, I get you the urge and the attraction and everything loses its touch. It's like 'now everybody knows'.
It's gonna be harder than keeping it to yourself and trying to avoid the cues and thoughts of opening that friendship again. But once you do it, it's gonna be worth it. Your going to feel and free, lighter than ever. Burden gone. You may suffer initially because of maybe trust issues. But love, if it's there, will win again and again.
Orbiter:
There's certainly a closeness that can come by maybe once in a lifetime, but unfortunately, it's something not openly shared with the wife, due to jealous tendencies. There's also the need for me to move on from what was a 22 year avocation, as I seek to pursue ministry as my true calling, and I'm also starting up a small business. The whole thing kind of keeps me locked in a period of my life I'm trying to move on from.
Thank you for your encouragement. Yes, something good has to fill that void, it's time for the next chapter in my life.
There's certainly a closeness that can come by maybe once in a lifetime, but unfortunately, it's something not openly shared with the wife, due to jealous tendencies. There's also the need for me to move on from what was a 22 year avocation, as I seek to pursue ministry as my true calling, and I'm also starting up a small business. The whole thing kind of keeps me locked in a period of my life I'm trying to move on from.
Thank you for your encouragement. Yes, something good has to fill that void, it's time for the next chapter in my life.
@ Chris Oz ~
I appreciate your thoughts, and where you're coming from. Please don't think of me less for what I'm about to say...
Back in the past, once of my own volition in 1994, when prostitutes were an obsession, wanting to relieve my own conscience, I confessed to my [new] wife, and while I did (selfishly?) get that relief, it devastated her.
A second time, when I made a stop off back in 2003 to a porno bookstore, to 'get one off' before going home (we left an event in separate cars), and she wondered why it took me so long to get home, I confessed to having visited porno bookstores. While I 'rescued myself' from a guilty conscience in the moment, I devastated her for a second time! This caused unprecedented devastation in our marriage.
I know that it's been my secretive double-life in the past that was the real injury to my marriage and my wife, but I've determined that for the sake of my marriage it's more important for me now to live the truth, even if I may not always divulge the truth.
Obviously, I don't want to live a lie, like I was doing in my double-life, or in my co-worker friendship, but nor do I feel in my situation that I should divulge everything, as that would do more harm than good. I've grown quite comfortable with this decision, necessary in my particular marital dynamics.
In fact, my wife isn't even aware of the resurgent battles with P/MO that I've had since last March. I've found in my own life that 'telling her' has only created false and superficial attempts to change, but in truth only drove me into deeper secrecy. Overcoming these things may not get me a pat on the back, but my wife won't have a husband who's living a lie behind her back.
I appreciate your thoughts, and where you're coming from. Please don't think of me less for what I'm about to say...
Back in the past, once of my own volition in 1994, when prostitutes were an obsession, wanting to relieve my own conscience, I confessed to my [new] wife, and while I did (selfishly?) get that relief, it devastated her.
A second time, when I made a stop off back in 2003 to a porno bookstore, to 'get one off' before going home (we left an event in separate cars), and she wondered why it took me so long to get home, I confessed to having visited porno bookstores. While I 'rescued myself' from a guilty conscience in the moment, I devastated her for a second time! This caused unprecedented devastation in our marriage.
I know that it's been my secretive double-life in the past that was the real injury to my marriage and my wife, but I've determined that for the sake of my marriage it's more important for me now to live the truth, even if I may not always divulge the truth.
Obviously, I don't want to live a lie, like I was doing in my double-life, or in my co-worker friendship, but nor do I feel in my situation that I should divulge everything, as that would do more harm than good. I've grown quite comfortable with this decision, necessary in my particular marital dynamics.
In fact, my wife isn't even aware of the resurgent battles with P/MO that I've had since last March. I've found in my own life that 'telling her' has only created false and superficial attempts to change, but in truth only drove me into deeper secrecy. Overcoming these things may not get me a pat on the back, but my wife won't have a husband who's living a lie behind her back.
Phineas 808 said:
I can totally relate Phineas. I haven't told my wife of my problems. I know telling her will devastate her and my marriage and my kids life will be ruined too. Better to believe that what she doesn't know won't hurt her, and in the meantime figure out a solution than to tell her and risk losing her forever. At least that is how I think.
Aussie_85
Active Member
100% in agreeance that some things are better of not being told.
Cheating, physically should be confessed to in my opinion, but porn use, cam sites, even sexting - may just end the relationship when no actual physical sexual acts have been done.
Although the guilt is tough, use it as motivation to not do it again.
I had a real issue with pro's throughout my 20's, told my GF at the start of our relationship and she was shocked and hurt but after explaining my addiction to porn, loneliness etc she understood to some degree.
Cheating, physically should be confessed to in my opinion, but porn use, cam sites, even sexting - may just end the relationship when no actual physical sexual acts have been done.
Although the guilt is tough, use it as motivation to not do it again.
I had a real issue with pro's throughout my 20's, told my GF at the start of our relationship and she was shocked and hurt but after explaining my addiction to porn, loneliness etc she understood to some degree.
@ akpal2 ~
Exactly, brother! Thankfully, this isn't true for everyone- but unfortunately, it's true for some of us, that it's better to keep this fight to ourselves. Most women, I would say, are not equipped to handle the kind of mess we've worked ourselves into. For many, it would forever damage or even end their marriage.
It may seem like a perfect excuse to stay hidden and secretive, but you have to know what it is you want out of your lives, and who your wife is really married to. My wife says that she deserves or is worthy of the truth- but I know from past experience that she's not always worthy of my truth- but, she is worthy that I should live the truth, or be truthful in my actions, character and behavior when no one is looking. I think, in our cases, akapl2, that is more important.
I've also found it counterproductive in the past, when I've lapsed and told her- or she found out (very rare), she would lose it, be so angry, yelling, throwing stuff, etc... Mind you, the hurt is real, the pain is real, and all her feelings are valid- and we're the cause of them, but the impact of this is too much for me, and I fall into that dangerous place where we view ourselves as bad, evil, fundamentally flawed, and this only increases relapses in my case...
As men- and I know this will be old-fashioned to many here- as men, we got ourselves into this mess, we have to get ourselves out, without causing unnecessary pain on our wives, who are- as the Bible says- the 'weaker vessels'. If we (as men) can help each other out, great! If we can solicit the help of our wives in this area (as we no doubt do in other areas), all the better! Otherwise, we should shoulder it without devastating them with truths they can't handle.
Exactly, brother! Thankfully, this isn't true for everyone- but unfortunately, it's true for some of us, that it's better to keep this fight to ourselves. Most women, I would say, are not equipped to handle the kind of mess we've worked ourselves into. For many, it would forever damage or even end their marriage.
It may seem like a perfect excuse to stay hidden and secretive, but you have to know what it is you want out of your lives, and who your wife is really married to. My wife says that she deserves or is worthy of the truth- but I know from past experience that she's not always worthy of my truth- but, she is worthy that I should live the truth, or be truthful in my actions, character and behavior when no one is looking. I think, in our cases, akapl2, that is more important.
I've also found it counterproductive in the past, when I've lapsed and told her- or she found out (very rare), she would lose it, be so angry, yelling, throwing stuff, etc... Mind you, the hurt is real, the pain is real, and all her feelings are valid- and we're the cause of them, but the impact of this is too much for me, and I fall into that dangerous place where we view ourselves as bad, evil, fundamentally flawed, and this only increases relapses in my case...
As men- and I know this will be old-fashioned to many here- as men, we got ourselves into this mess, we have to get ourselves out, without causing unnecessary pain on our wives, who are- as the Bible says- the 'weaker vessels'. If we (as men) can help each other out, great! If we can solicit the help of our wives in this area (as we no doubt do in other areas), all the better! Otherwise, we should shoulder it without devastating them with truths they can't handle.
Correct, Aussie_85! It may seem difficult, even lonely to deal with this in private, but it's a small price to pay than instead endangering our marriage further by disclosure.
My advice to those who are lucky enough to share their struggles with their spouses, share, but please leave out the details!
I like what you said, she understood 'to some degree'- because this isn't, nor should it have to be, their struggle too!
@ Chris Oz ~ Thank you, and blessings to you!
My advice to those who are lucky enough to share their struggles with their spouses, share, but please leave out the details!
I like what you said, she understood 'to some degree'- because this isn't, nor should it have to be, their struggle too!
@ Chris Oz ~ Thank you, and blessings to you!
Phineas 808 said:
I can't like this post enough. I completely agree with this. There are some things in life a man must figure out himself, especially if the danger becomes that disclosing the true circumstances might end up doing more harm than good. Each man knows where they stand in the relationship. If some people can confide in their partners, that is probably the best outcome, but not everybody has that luxury.
LetItGoAlready
Active Member
Phineas - Glad to see you're still doing well and that you are continuing to inspire and help your fellow strugglers. Best wishes, friend.
I really appreciate that, Liga! To be honest, I got a little jealous when you were posting on others journals, and not on mine, 
(no funny thoughts, please...)
Grateful that you're doing well and have your own plans you're executing. Don't be a stranger, okay? It really helps to use these RN journals to get 'dead-dog' serious and put our honest thoughts down.
Be well, brother!
(no funny thoughts, please...)Grateful that you're doing well and have your own plans you're executing. Don't be a stranger, okay? It really helps to use these RN journals to get 'dead-dog' serious and put our honest thoughts down.
Be well, brother!
Day 88 [80+8]!
This is 11/15 toward my overall goal of 120 days.
This is also 2 months, 27 days or 12 weeks, 4 days into this recovery effort.
Today I hit my goal of 88 days without P, PMO, MO, and without P-Subs or edging (with 1 near episode).
How do I feel?
I am getting more and more of a feel of what life will be like on the otherside of this reboot and recovery effort. When 120 days are over, I will pretty much continue as I am now: living life without these unhealthy and immoral habits dogging me, or weighing me down. Of course that feels free and liberating. It's also exciting to imagine life without these things nipping at my heels.
I've been going on walks again when my work day is done (around 4pm), which I like to do as a time of reflection and deep thought (unless the wife goes with). And I remember that years back when I'd go on these walks (same neighborhood) that my thoughts were many times about how I was dealing with this addiction in some form or other, and even keeping an eye out for discarded pornography on the bike trail! How I longed to be free in those days, but lacked many of the tools and philosophical understandings about addiction that I now have.
So it felt really good to be thinking that I have now, basically, the freedom I could only dream about before, and truly enjoy my walks, and my walk in life, without that addiction.
Deeper issues or concerns?
I don't fully know the reasons why, but I awoke last night with a strong desire to edge. In fact, I basically purposed to 'go all the way' and ejaculate. So I did edge for a little, but then stopped. I knew that if I went all the way, I would have a hard time not making that a habit, and it would only lend toward p-subs and eventual porn. It would also not just be the edging, but MO as well. It would put me in a very dangerous place, and threaten all the freedom I'm now enjoying.
I stopped and lay there- I needed to address this in a deeper way, as there may have been a deeper component (spiritual and/or emotional) to it. I needed to pray, but it wasn't convenient for me to get up and go to my office. My answer? I turned to my wife, and woke her up. I just took time with her, pleasured her, and then 'got mine'. This was the answer, at least for that moment, was to use my wife for the natural purpose marital sex serves. We both went to sleep happy and content. As for the edging? No fault.
As for using images while making love to my wife, I am getting better about this, too. I'm not completely free of that, but I am getting better and better, without having to depend on them. I can 'keep it up' without resorting to fantasy, as my perceived need to is all psychological. So, my reboot includes connecting with my wife, absent any need to rely on images based on performance anxiety.
This go around, there was no anxiety to speak of, and it was quite enjoyable.
Blessings, All.
This is 11/15 toward my overall goal of 120 days.
This is also 2 months, 27 days or 12 weeks, 4 days into this recovery effort.
Today I hit my goal of 88 days without P, PMO, MO, and without P-Subs or edging (with 1 near episode).
How do I feel?
I am getting more and more of a feel of what life will be like on the otherside of this reboot and recovery effort. When 120 days are over, I will pretty much continue as I am now: living life without these unhealthy and immoral habits dogging me, or weighing me down. Of course that feels free and liberating. It's also exciting to imagine life without these things nipping at my heels.
I've been going on walks again when my work day is done (around 4pm), which I like to do as a time of reflection and deep thought (unless the wife goes with
). And I remember that years back when I'd go on these walks (same neighborhood) that my thoughts were many times about how I was dealing with this addiction in some form or other, and even keeping an eye out for discarded pornography on the bike trail! How I longed to be free in those days, but lacked many of the tools and philosophical understandings about addiction that I now have.So it felt really good to be thinking that I have now, basically, the freedom I could only dream about before, and truly enjoy my walks, and my walk in life, without that addiction.
Deeper issues or concerns?
I don't fully know the reasons why, but I awoke last night with a strong desire to edge. In fact, I basically purposed to 'go all the way' and ejaculate. So I did edge for a little, but then stopped. I knew that if I went all the way, I would have a hard time not making that a habit, and it would only lend toward p-subs and eventual porn. It would also not just be the edging, but MO as well. It would put me in a very dangerous place, and threaten all the freedom I'm now enjoying.
I stopped and lay there- I needed to address this in a deeper way, as there may have been a deeper component (spiritual and/or emotional) to it. I needed to pray, but it wasn't convenient for me to get up and go to my office. My answer? I turned to my wife, and woke her up. I just took time with her, pleasured her, and then 'got mine'. This was the answer, at least for that moment, was to use my wife for the natural purpose marital sex serves. We both went to sleep happy and content. As for the edging? No fault.
As for using images while making love to my wife, I am getting better about this, too. I'm not completely free of that, but I am getting better and better, without having to depend on them. I can 'keep it up' without resorting to fantasy, as my perceived need to is all psychological. So, my reboot includes connecting with my wife, absent any need to rely on images based on performance anxiety.
This go around, there was no anxiety to speak of, and it was quite enjoyable.
Blessings, All.
well done Phineas, I am glad you didn't give in to edging and woke up your wife. Always good to read your journal. It has a calming effect on me for some reason. Please keep posting.
Also, why didn't you use the mindfulness technique you taught me? It seems quite useful to me so far.
Also, why didn't you use the mindfulness technique you taught me? It seems quite useful to me so far.
Thank you so much, akpal2!
Will do! I'm not going anywhere, even after hitting my goals. I may not be on everday, but I will certainly make it a point to 'give back' to the community, and help others.
Mindfulness was used in the sense that I paused (very important) in the moment of acting out, and went into thinking how this would play out, if I went all the way, how I would tell that story- versus, how I would contrariwise tell that story if I had a victory here.
I just have to say that knowing my past behavior, or knowing myself, that having acted to a certain point, what I needed to do. I've also (even recently) had urges in bed that I kind of just breathed through until they passed, nonjudgmentally. But in this case I knew there was a deeper component than mere habit that needed addressing, or else I would be going back-and-forth with it all night long. I needed to get up to pray, but I didn't want to alert my daughter still awake in the living room (about 11pm) playing video games. So I instead turned to my wife.
I could have solely did mindfulness techniques, and to a degree I did- along with cognitive strategies (thinking about possible outcomes to my behaviors). But given that there were deeper needs involved, I needed for myself a deeper response.
Does this difference make sense?
Will do! I'm not going anywhere, even after hitting my goals. I may not be on everday, but I will certainly make it a point to 'give back' to the community, and help others.
Mindfulness was used in the sense that I paused (very important) in the moment of acting out, and went into thinking how this would play out, if I went all the way, how I would tell that story- versus, how I would contrariwise tell that story if I had a victory here.
I just have to say that knowing my past behavior, or knowing myself, that having acted to a certain point, what I needed to do. I've also (even recently) had urges in bed that I kind of just breathed through until they passed, nonjudgmentally. But in this case I knew there was a deeper component than mere habit that needed addressing, or else I would be going back-and-forth with it all night long. I needed to get up to pray, but I didn't want to alert my daughter still awake in the living room (about 11pm) playing video games. So I instead turned to my wife.
I could have solely did mindfulness techniques, and to a degree I did- along with cognitive strategies (thinking about possible outcomes to my behaviors). But given that there were deeper needs involved, I needed for myself a deeper response.
Does this difference make sense?