How Shall We Escape?

[Phineas 808]

I knew that I might think of things that I missed in my list on the previous page, but I'm so surprized that it was such a huge issue as lust in public!

I will be able to gage my level of seriousness by how I respond to the opposite sex in public. Yes, I'm grateful that at least I was looking at 'real women' as opposed to pixalized images, but still, I know from experience that if this remained unchecked, it would only lead back to riskier unwanted behavior.

Also, in relation to this, there's an emotional tie involved in lust for me, and what may be anxiety based.

 

[guitar1968]

Lust in public is a thing that will take a while to get over. Recently I've had to be out of the house/office and seeing a lot of women now out in summer wear. I spend way too much time looking and thinking about sex. Hopefully the further I get from porn, the better this will get. But I would prefer to be turned on by women in the real world than on a screen. All part of the process I guess.

 

[Phineas 808]

Lust in public is a thing that will take a while to get over. Recently I've had to be out of the house/office and seeing a lot of women now out in summer wear. I spend way too much time looking and thinking about sex. Hopefully the further I get from porn, the better this will get. But I would prefer to be turned on by women in the real world than on a screen. All part of the process I guess.

I'm careful to make the distinction between admiration and lust. To admire beauty is not lust, but perhaps 'shameless' ogling is...? But I definitely hear and agree with what you're saying. I think it's something that is on some level 'needed' that I interact with and enjoy the beauty of woman in public, as long as I don't disrespect my wife about it.

I can't fully explain it, and to some outside observer it may sound like I'm making up some 'mystical excuse' for lust (lol...!) but, there's a certain dynamic and magic about it all... Porn of course corrupts and distorts this natural admiration for beauty. So, in agreement with you, I'm so grateful that it's not pixalized women on a screen (artificial) but real women in real life.

For me, however, I can find myself overly depending on this to satisfy some anxiety or insecurity. I can tell the difference too, though it's sometimes subtle.

Excited for the changes in your own journey, guitar, and wish you all the best!

 

[EarthWalker]

Reminds of like staring at a nature landscape. Like there is some waterfall and you can get mesmerized.

Or a good example would be a flower. You want to appreciate the beauty of the flower...but you don't pick it. Just like you don't have sex with a waterfall.

Just today at a store at a checkout. There was a young lady with a beautiful face. I also see nothing wrong with appreciating beauty. Lust is when you want to just have sex. Leech energy. Like I am incomplete...I need you to complete me. I am lacking. That is selfish.

I don't know. Just my stream of thought.

Wishing everyone well
EW

 

[guitar1968]

Tricky one for sure. We should be attracted to woman we see. That is just a natural fact. My problem is I sit there imagining them naked, what they look like, how their boobs hang, are they hairy, shaved... sorry, I don't need to really paint the picture. I'm sure you all get what I'm saying. The point is, letting my mind go to the "porny" place instead of just thinking wow, what a beautiful woman. I don't have to strip them in my mind and start a porn fantasy. That's what has caused such issues in my own marriage. Expecting my wife to be a porn star. It's just not the way to treat or think about anyone. I hope this fades. I never want to stop being attracted to beautiful women. I just don't want to always go there in my head. And honestly, it has diminished some in the last 40+ days but I do have a long way to go.

 

[Phineas 808]

@EW:

Yes, perfect analogy. Or, that's what it literally is, we're basically enjoying nature. It's natural to appreciate and even be mezmerized by beauty, as one would with a waterfall or a sunset. Definitely.

Your contrast made with selfish vampyric lust, too, is perfect. Are we admiring from a place of strength and selflessness, or are we lusting from a place of insecure weakness, and leeching?

@guitar:

I appreciate how this one (well known) user worded it back in the day. He said that every time he goes to the gym, and sees folks working out, he tells himself that he's not on a porn-set for his own personal indulgence.

That's sometimes how I'll snap myself out of it. I'll ask myself, "What, am I just to take this lady down an aisle (at the grocery store, etc), and have sex with her right there?" Or, I'll ask myself, "Okay, so she's incredibly beautiful! What do I do with that?" Then I'll turn potential lust into an appreciation for her, a prayer for her, and grattitude.

I think that as we become stronger, in control of ourselves, it will be natural to simply appreciate women as human beings, as the mystery that they are. And, as a natural effect of this self-control is that this becomes a 'turn on' for the opposite sex. Women can some how sense our inner strength, and they're automatically drawn to that. Before, women seemed naturally repulsed by me, and I think self-control is what makes the difference. But, given a time of abstinence from P/MO, and they seem very attracted...

Good thoughts, all.

 

[Phineas 808]

Day: 10

This is 1/9 toward my current abstinence challenge of 90 days.

This is also 1 week, and 3 days into this recovery effort, building on previous streaks (139, 19, 53 [19, 35], 2).

Today I hit my mini-goal of 10 days without P, PMO, MO, and with earlier episodes of p-subs and edging.

I have only 8 more mini-goals to hit before reaching 90 days!

How do I feel?

I feel better, like my efforts toward recovery are normalizing, stabalizing. The edging has stopped, and I am consciously dismissing any urges or desires to do so deep in the night.

I am seeking to be more vigilant and keep my recovery efforts in my 'right hand', like they matter, like I am to take this thing: seriously.

I am happy and hopeful that I will walk this out toward a new sweet spot beyond the 90 days, where I don't have to count days but that I simply live life in abstinence. I'm a ways before I get there, but what else would I be doing? I want to end this in my life, and counting days right now makes sense. Again, I would be living each day in abstinence from unwanted and former behaviors anyway, so may as well count for now to ensure that this is the direction I'm going.

Deeper Issues or Concerns?

Grateful to report that my daughter and I were recently able to iron out several issues surrounding certain unfortunate events in her life, and the fallout regarding these. We were out of town at another graduation party, and were able to talk and to cry together. She and I have let go of any anger toward each other, and have come to a deeper mutual understanding. Our relationship is better now than it's been in years... Seeking to build on that.

During the 139 days of abstinence from November 6, 2020 to March 25th, I'm sure I endured several other stressful and emotionally challenging times, such as fights with the wife, and other stressers. What was different about this time? Perhaps it was effectively having to wrestle a 'big kid' to prevent them from taking pills, yeah, that wasn't fun- and very traumatic. I already say too much there, and so won't get any more specific. I'm just trying to figure why things unfolded (and along with it, my focus on abstinence) as they did...

Going forward, I need to expect that life will have its ups and downs, its smooth and calm rivers along with the occassional rapdis that need to be carefully navigated. But to determine that ...none of these things move me- as the apostle Paul said.

Generally, I'm feeling better. I'm excited about the post I recently made where I sought to paint what a successful reboot should look like for me. This gives me something to read each day, and especially as needed, to help me focus and have vigilance (without being hyper-vigilant) that I need to have that edge, that fire, in overcoming this.

Blessings, All.

 

[Orbiter]

Day: 10

This is 1/9 toward my current abstinence challenge of 90 days.

This is also 1 week, and 3 days into this recovery effort, building on previous streaks (139, 19, 53 [19, 35], 2).

Today I hit my mini-goal of 10 days without P, PMO, MO, and with earlier episodes of p-subs and edging.

I have only 8 more mini-goals to hit before reaching 90 days!

How do I feel?

I feel better, like my efforts toward recovery are normalizing, stabalizing. The edging has stopped, and I am consciously dismissing any urges or desires to do so deep in the night.

I am seeking to be more vigilant and keep my recovery efforts in my 'right hand', like they matter, like I am to take this thing: seriously.

I am happy and hopeful that I will walk this out toward a new sweet spot beyond the 90 days, where I don't have to count days but that I simply live life in abstinence. I'm a ways before I get there, but what else would I be doing? I want to end this in my life, and counting days right now makes sense. Again, I would be living each day in abstinence from unwanted and former behaviors anyway, so may as well count for now to ensure that this is the direction I'm going.

Deeper Issues or Concerns?

Grateful to report that my daughter and I were recently able to iron out several issues surrounding certain unfortunate events in her life, and the fallout regarding these. We were out of town at another graduation party, and were able to talk and to cry together. She and I have let go of any anger toward each other, and have come to a deeper mutual understanding. Our relationship is better now than it's been in years... Seeking to build on that.

During the 139 days of abstinence from November 6, 2020 to March 25th, I'm sure I endured several other stressful and emotionally challenging times, such as fights with the wife, and other stressers. What was different about this time? Perhaps it was effectively having to wrestle a 'big kid' to prevent them from taking pills, yeah, that wasn't fun- and very traumatic. I already say too much there, and so won't get any more specific. I'm just trying to figure why things unfolded (and along with it, my focus on abstinence) as they did...

Going forward, I need to expect that life will have its ups and downs, its smooth and calm rivers along with the occassional rapdis that need to be carefully navigated. But to determine that ...none of these things move me- as the apostle Paul said.

Generally, I'm feeling better. I'm excited about the post I recently made where I sought to paint what a successful reboot should look like for me. This gives me something to read each day, and especially as needed, to help me focus and have vigilance (without being hyper-vigilant) that I need to have that edge, that fire, in overcoming this.

Blessings, All.

Phineas,

While I wouldn't claim that I understand the family situation entirely or indeed the emotional stressors & pressures that a father & husband faces having never been either, I can observe in your post (and i'm sure you have too) that while these situations were overwhelming at points, you have been present as a father, a husband & a member of your family through these recent tough times and, despite periodic lapses, you did NOT use the addiction to run away from the issues you were facing. I feel this is a decisive victory for you in this battle/journey and something from which hopefully further growth in your life, family & self can stem from.

I guess it just goes to show often it isn't the numbers that count the most.

Keep up the great work!

 

[Phineas 808]

I can observe in your post (and i'm sure you have too) that while these situations were overwhelming at points, you have been present as a father, a husband & a member of your family through these recent tough times and, despite periodic lapses, you did NOT use the addiction to run away from the issues you were facing. I feel this is a decisive victory for you in this battle/journey and something from which hopefully further growth in your life, family & self can stem from.

I guess it just goes to show often it isn't the numbers that count the most.

Thank you, Orbiter! These words mean more than you can know, and in that regards, your words have been instrumental a time or two in giving me a motivation I might not have had otherwise. So, thank you.

What you say is an important perspective I needed to see, that despite the recent lapses, they weren't me 'checking out' and escaping from the recent trying times in our family, but were perhaps more residual (?). They were kind of like licking wounds in the dark, but not necessarily escaping from the battle itself, especially as regarded these challenges.

An update:

While I'm here, I'll provide a brief update...

I was sullen yesterday, down emotionally, for perhaps a few reasons. I did have to challenge myself to be otherwise minded, but this seemed to fuel a 'need' to view p-subs and edge. There was an episode of edging deep in the night, and this was followed with a time of viewing p-subs. I was able to stop after a while (30+ minutes!), and I was to go back to bed...

But, in keeping with my recent list, I treated this more as high-risk behavior (which it was), and addressed it in prayer in my office. This was in line with a more spiritual prayer, as well as seeking to soften my heart in terms of 'repentance' in turning away from this. Above all, it was more like turning away from broken wells that don't hold water, coming before Him with my need, my thirst and hunger, and drinking in from the Spirit, the Living Waters.

I was able to turn in to bed afterwards. There was no more episodes, and thus, no fault.

 

[JerryTX]

Way to seek out GOD. I find that what you read in my latest post is something I read sometimes multiple times per day. Then dive directly into scripture! This and worship music have helped tremendously. Sometimes when you get heading towards high risk behaviors it can be tough to turn to GOD and I do something as simple as close my eyes and repeat the name JESUS over and over. He has never failed me when doing this even in my darkest time. There is POWER in the name of JESUS. Praying for you brother!

 

[Phineas 808]

Thank you, Jerry!

If I'm in an habitual cycle, it's hard to 'remember'- but when I do, He's faithful. It used to be for me that because of whatever I was doing, I allowed shame to keep me from praying. But knowing the grace of God now, I try and include Him in all my struggles and temptations. He's not at all squeemish with the sordid details, and He never shames us. He's already forgiven our sins, and knows our temptations.

A prayer that has actually saved me many times was,

Lord, I know that even if I do [X, Y, or Z], You have already forgiven me, and have already given me righteousness as a free gift.

This actually had the effect of keeping me from doing X, Y, and Z. It's counter-intuitive, almost like we're making license to sin, but the exact opposite is what occurs.

Praying for you, too!

 

[Chris Oz]

Yeah it does seem counterintuitive, but it's true and if it works for you that way, then all the better.

Whenever I have triggers these days, I find myself just saying these words:
"I surrender my thoughts, my will and my life to you Jesus."

It helps me in some way and kind of dis-empowers the triggers, especially when I mention the name Jesus.

I also agree that shame can be a big factor in recovery. Learning to accept that we are not perfect and just surrender our shortcomings to God is a big deal. Those who dwell in shame find it hard to receive the power they need...hence the continuous cycle of relapse. That's what I have noticed.

For a successful Reboot or progress in recovery, we need to have power over shame of every kind. We need to have a powerful mindset, system or program that powers us through it, whenever we fall or begin to judge ourselves because of past, present or the fear of future misdeeds.

 

[Phineas 808]

Have a success to record. This is during what has been a strange but perhaps predictable situation I've been in...

The night before last, I lay awake in bed with strong urges to edge (which may be more neurlogically damaging than PMO!), but I didn't react to the urges, for or against. I just laid there until the urges passed, which they invariably will (you can outlast any urge!).

The next day, yesterday, I was home alone as my daughter went to her place and my wife went to some other place. I had purposed to pray during that time. But as I began to walk about the house, I had a strong urge come on me to watch P, and perhaps even to PMO! The urge was such that, if I entertained it at all, I would've went all the way...!

The urges were strong, the anticipation of lapsing was strong, but I had to stand up and fight! I uttered a few verses of scripture that would ground me in the moment, snap me out of it, or get me in the right headspace. Then I began to pray in tongues, and worship the Lord. The worship aspect is so important for me, because it's a shifting away from the false-answer to a real need, the thrist and hunger deep within me- for God.

Yes, I was thirsty- but No, the answer isn't to run to the broken wells and draw dirty water to quench a thirst it's unable to. I went to the Living Waters, in the well within myself.

The urges passed with no incident.

I'll have different ways of fighting this, sometimes through mindfulness, other times it will be through the science of habit-change. But in keeping with my recent post focusing my approach, spirituality is becoming more prominent in dealing with this. Whatever tools we find to be helpful, it's good to have multiple approaches handy.

Be well, All.

 

[guitar1968]

So great for you Phineas. We have to use the tools that work. Coming here, reading and writing have been my tools so far and they are working. Picking up my guitar instead of my junk is also one of my tools. You are right, we can outlast any urges. We can. It's just not true that we can't. I thought that for many years, but I really don't believe it anymore. Sure we can give in to the urges and sometimes it's much harder to resist, but we can.

So congratulations to you. I love hearing success stories. They just make my day so much easier.

 

[Orbiter]

Have a success to record. This is during what has been a strange but perhaps predictable situation I've been in...

The night before last, I lay awake in bed with strong urges to edge (which may be more neurlogically damaging than PMO!), but I didn't react to the urges, for or against. I just laid there until the urges passed, which they invariably will (you can outlast any urge!).

The next day, yesterday, I was home alone as my daughter went to her place and my wife went to some other place. I had purposed to pray during that time. But as I began to walk about the house, I had a strong urge come on me to watch P, and perhaps even to PMO! The urge was such that, if I entertained it at all, I would've went all the way...!

The urges were strong, the anticipation of lapsing was strong, but I had to stand up and fight! I uttered a few verses of scripture that would ground me in the moment, snap me out of it, or get me in the right headspace. Then I began to pray in tongues, and worship the Lord. The worship aspect is so important for me, because it's a shifting away from the false-answer to a real need, the thrist and hunger deep within me- for God.

Yes, I was thirsty- but No, the answer isn't to run to the broken wells and draw dirty water to quench a thirst it's unable to. I went to the Living Waters, in the well within myself.

The urges passed with no incident.

I'll have different ways of fighting this, sometimes through mindfulness, other times it will be through the science of habit-change. But in keeping with my recent post focusing my approach, spirituality is becoming more prominent in dealing with this. Whatever tools we find to be helpful, it's good to have multiple approaches handy.

Be well, All.

Great going Phineas! You clearly identified the need & the longing within yourself and, instead of falling into habits of old, you reached out to God to fill that need within yourself. That's connection both with a higher power and I feel like something the true, authentic, ideal Phineas would do.

Of course each urge, need & situation is different right? Therefore they need to be addressed in different ways but for this, clearly familiar feeling & situation, it seems like you may have found an answer.

Keep up the great work!

 

[Phineas 808]

@guitar1968

Thank you, brother! It is encouraging to read of others doing it. It feels really good, too, having a lengthy streak between the last lapse and the unknown yet hopeful life ahead!

@Orbiter

Yes, the urges can arise from any source or cue, whether circumstantial or emotional, eternal or internal. But in a way, the urges all come from the same place, the lower brain (the limbic system) trying to get its dopamine hit. Separating these urges as coming from a place that is 'not us' helps to identify it as 'neurological junk' that we can simply dismiss.

Thank you.

 

[Phineas 808]

Day: 10

This is 1/9 toward my current abstinence challenge of 90 days.

This is also 1 week, and 3 days into this recovery effort, building on previous streaks (139, 19, 53 [19, 35], 2, 14).

Today I hit my mini-goal of 10 days without P, PMO, MO, and without p-subs or edging.

I have only 8 more mini-goals to hit before reaching 90 days!

How do I feel?

I feel a lot better than last time. As anyone may notice, it's only a short scroll up that I posted another 10 days (5/30/21), and with that were ...earlier episodes of p-subs and edging. This has not been the case this time around. I had the one night or two nights where edging was an urge, but I dismissed it.

Again, I had that time I reported as a success story, where I had strong urges in the day while everyone was gone somewhere. At this time, I had prayed through the urges, but it was a conscious choice to either feed the urges or to purposely change my mindset.

These successes above are an upward trend where I feel that I'm gaining a strength and momentum that I had before in my earlier successes. I am thus feeling hopeful, and am on a better war-footing, but without the hyper-vigilance of 'white-knuckled' approaches. There is diligence and vigilance, as will be noted below, but it's not in any kind of fear of falling or failure. I feel peaceful and where I need to be.

Deeper Issues or Concerns?

I had to consider how to deal in my own journal with what very well could've been a negative spiral for me. The silence above is not aviodance on my part, on the contrary, as there was an increased intensity of focus on my methods and approaches- not so much logistically- but digging deeper to focus on my attitudes and mindset.

I worked on my post concerning what a successful reboot should look like (found here), edited, expanded it, and focused it like a laser- especially as regards the 'going forward' and the 'extra-focus' sections.

On social media I went on the offensive, particularly on IG where I had an album saved where I had a massive collection of pictures of beautiful women. These weren't tasteless, sexual or p-subs, etc, but represented a strange dependence on a woman's beauty. I did save pics in the past that were p-subs, or could be viewed as such. Having this may have seemed innocent enough, particularly from an artist's perspective, but I needed to dig deeper as my lapses were too frequent. I deleted pic after pic (so many, lol...!), and then deleted the album.

This didn't feel legalistic, but necessary. I do have other (non p-sub) things saved that assure me that I'm not just being overly restrictive (or doing a 'scorched earth' policy toward myself).

I am also connecting with videos of certain therapists, etc on YT who post about PA, and related issues from a compassionate standpoint, to help coach me, like Dr. Trish Leigh and Noah B.E. Church, and others.

This time around there's, yes, habit-change focused on the behaviors themselves, but a deepened awareness toward the underlying emotional and spiritual components behind my former behaviors.

Mostly, I seek to not think about it- and that's the best policy for someone who doesn't use porn any more.

Blessings, All.

 

[guitar1968]

Keep going Phineas! I enjoy reading your posts and I am following your story. It is terrific and it is helpful to me and I imagine many others as well.

 

[Escapeandnevercomeback]

I used to do something more or less similar with splitting the streak into smaller parts. I used to have what I called "checkpoints" like in video games It was something like 5 days, 7 days (because it's 1 week), 10 days, 14 days, 15 days, 20 days, 21 days... You get the idea. And I tried to only pay attention when I reached the checkpoint, not obsessing everyday with "This is the second day, this is the third day" etc because I saw that it was counterproductive given the nature of my mind. But nowadays I'm actually trying not to count days anymore. I have only one goal: To reach the end of the day without feeding dopamine to my addiction. And tomorrow the same. Porn reinforces the addiction, feeds it and makes it follow me, the best thing is to starve t to death. It's the fastest and safest way to do it but at the same time it really sucks.

This thing doesn't have to be complicated. What helps is understanding how this addiction works. I guess it was one of Gary Wilson's video (Rest in peace) that I saw an animation with a rat that had a wire or something connected to his brain and the rat could push a lever or something to get a dopamine hit and he kept doing that all day. That's us and porn. Porn is the lever we push to get the dopamine hit and then the solution becomes simple: don't push the lever. Which means no porn, no peeking, no subs, no "Five minutes is too little to hurt" mindset. It means complete abandonment of porn. Many people would freak out being told this because their brain knows what it means: It will be painful, the withdrawal will be brutal. Thinking that there is actually no way to ever access the dopamine of porn sounds more terrifying than the latest horror movie. But I believe this is the fastest and safest way to do it. That's why I don't really believe in reducing porn use, after I've tried that a lot. I'm not done with it even after reducing the frequency. It has to be completely starved. Okay, maybe it could help in the beginning to see that we can go more than 1 day without porn, to see what to expect etc but after that we still need to move into the complete starvation territory to quit. Porn addiction can be starved to death but it can't be starved to death if we feed it even a little. Okay, here someone could say: "But if someone watches porn for 10 minutes after 6 months of abstinence and then goes another 6 months, it's no big deal." Okay, maybe, but I know people who fucked with porn like that and ended up messing up big time. It's safer not to touch porn. We can't control porn use because one of the definitions of an addiction is that the drug is in control, not us. The best way is to abandon it. That's how I see it.

 

[Phineas 808]

Keep going Phineas! I enjoy reading your posts and I am following your story. It is terrific and it is helpful to me and I imagine many others as well.

Thank you, brother! I had literally said the same thing about reading your journal before I read your comment! I appreciate your support, and am standing with you in your victories as well!