Escapeandnevercomeback
Respected Member
Daaaaamn, man! You look like you have this. I really think you'll make it all the way to the end.
How Shall We Escape?
- Thread starter Phineas 808
- Start date
Thank you, Escape! I certainly go forward with both eyes open, knowing what I'm capable of, as in abstaining, but also as indulging.
I want to be that man who does not look at porn, does not masturbate or take advantage of women by being that predator.
Each new day gives us that opportunity to be that different person than we were the day before.
Standing with you, as you walk with me on that journey!
Escapeandnevercomeback
Respected Member
Bro, the way I see it, you've found what works for you. I want to see you succeed.
Wolfman
Active Member
Hi Phineas,
I think we are really on the same page. My comments were more reinforcing reflections of what you're already know and do. When I referred to white-knucking, e.g., I did not mean it the sense that you were doing this. Thank you for your thorough reply to my comments! It really helped me to understand your position better.
Congrats also on the 90 days! It looks like you have quite the system and thought in place behind your actions and intentions. Whereas PMO grounds itself mainly in immediate gratifications and the loss of control; its antitode is the much more rewarding (increasingly compounding) delayed gratification and the achievement of self-mastery through taking charge of one's life, doing the work that needs to be done. Ultimately, not for anything or anyone else than yourself (as you write in your reply). I see PMO reducing us to means and tools for someone's "other" gratification--because how can it not be so, if we become qualitatively worse through it (something either helps us more or helps us less). To have a system means to be committed to a principle, and commitment to a principle requires one has a real idea, and a real, working idea is something self-made, creative, enduring, coherent and rational (pornography, on the other hand, is merely ready-made, numbing, fleeting, perverse and irrational).
Keep building that system, Phineas! God be with you.
I think we are really on the same page. My comments were more reinforcing reflections of what you're already know and do. When I referred to white-knucking, e.g., I did not mean it the sense that you were doing this. Thank you for your thorough reply to my comments! It really helped me to understand your position better.
Congrats also on the 90 days! It looks like you have quite the system and thought in place behind your actions and intentions. Whereas PMO grounds itself mainly in immediate gratifications and the loss of control; its antitode is the much more rewarding (increasingly compounding) delayed gratification and the achievement of self-mastery through taking charge of one's life, doing the work that needs to be done. Ultimately, not for anything or anyone else than yourself (as you write in your reply). I see PMO reducing us to means and tools for someone's "other" gratification--because how can it not be so, if we become qualitatively worse through it (something either helps us more or helps us less). To have a system means to be committed to a principle, and commitment to a principle requires one has a real idea, and a real, working idea is something self-made, creative, enduring, coherent and rational (pornography, on the other hand, is merely ready-made, numbing, fleeting, perverse and irrational).
Keep building that system, Phineas! God be with you.
Well said, Wolfman, and very helpful comments above. I like how you worded it that we're either being self-made, conquering ourselves, mastering ourselves, or else we're selling out as someone else's slave, someone else's tool in their grattification or control over us.
Likewise, God be with you as well!
Likewise, God be with you as well!
Day: 100!
Today is 100 days without P, PMO, or MO (-1)! It has been 36 days since MO occurred, and I don't see it as an issue.
There were urges last night to edge or MO, but I dismissed them easy enough.
The other day I read in a journal from 16 years ago (March of 2005, when I was 38 years old. I had worked up a Recovery Action Plan (RAP), and it literally took up pages. It's outline was like this:
I. Goal
II. Core Issues
III. Areas of Weakness
IV. Battle Plan: offensive/deffensive
V. Lapse Contingencies
I won't get too deep into it, but needless to say, while there was a lot of good pointers, it was overall disempowering. This was when I still followed the 'disease model' of addiction, which sees us as helpless addicts until we die...
There was an over much focus on 'triggers' (what I now see as 'cues'), places, situations, inner versus outward triggers... I was literally at the mercy of even an add in a woman's magazine! Billboards? Forget it, if it was of a woman, it was danger!
I've so changed from those days. It was good to read through that to see where my head was at then. I am literally not that same person, and my marriage is far better (average challenges notwisthstanding).
The kind of numbers I can reach nowadays, even with the hope of finally being done with all of this, could not even be considered back then! I'm no longer that person diving into a dumpster behind a porno-book store, hoping to find even a dvd box with naked pictures on it!
Now, even with greater opportunity at my finger tips, the iPhone and computer, I do far better than I did before I even had a computer, when sneaking out to the living room to watch phone sex commercials, or Spanish T.V. were the big temptations!
We can, and must change. If I can, anyone can!
Today is 100 days without P, PMO, or MO (-1)! It has been 36 days since MO occurred, and I don't see it as an issue.
There were urges last night to edge or MO, but I dismissed them easy enough.
The other day I read in a journal from 16 years ago (March of 2005, when I was 38 years old. I had worked up a Recovery Action Plan (RAP), and it literally took up pages. It's outline was like this:
I. Goal
II. Core Issues
III. Areas of Weakness
IV. Battle Plan: offensive/deffensive
V. Lapse Contingencies
I won't get too deep into it, but needless to say, while there was a lot of good pointers, it was overall disempowering. This was when I still followed the 'disease model' of addiction, which sees us as helpless addicts until we die...
There was an over much focus on 'triggers' (what I now see as 'cues'), places, situations, inner versus outward triggers... I was literally at the mercy of even an add in a woman's magazine! Billboards? Forget it, if it was of a woman, it was danger!
I've so changed from those days. It was good to read through that to see where my head was at then. I am literally not that same person, and my marriage is far better (average challenges notwisthstanding).
The kind of numbers I can reach nowadays, even with the hope of finally being done with all of this, could not even be considered back then! I'm no longer that person diving into a dumpster behind a porno-book store, hoping to find even a dvd box with naked pictures on it!
Now, even with greater opportunity at my finger tips, the iPhone and computer, I do far better than I did before I even had a computer, when sneaking out to the living room to watch phone sex commercials, or Spanish T.V. were the big temptations!
We can, and must change. If I can, anyone can!
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Exactly, Strong! In mastering ourselves we undermine our 'would be masters', those who wish only to exploit our pain.
Phineas,
The part of the 'disease model' I struggle with the most these days is the lack of hope. There's something so deeply hopeless in the belief that we will be addicts for the rest of our life and we're condemned to a life within a rigid system where we have to be careful of watching TV, sexual intercourse, drinks with friends, deep breathing every time we see a suggestive advert or hitting up our accountability buddies every time we see an attractive woman in the street or whatever it may be.
Not only is that not recovery as these things are still a problem, every relapse reinforces the false belief that quitting is hopeless, all our hard work amounts to nothing and we will never be strong enough to be free.
I haven't had a cigarette since Christmas 2020, I have no intention of going back and I do not live in fear of seeing or smelling 2nd hand smoke. Why would recovery from PMO be any different?
A lot of my journal over the years has had this 'trigger centric' focus on recovery and my efforts at recovery have suffered. Though I am still far from the model of a recovered man, I would probably be feeling empty, hopeless & alone PMOing hour after hour in my apartment by myself right now if I still subscribed to this vision of recovery.
Changing the focus to one of habit change & personal growth has been a rewarding, at times difficult, but important experience. I still have a lot to learn and much of the basics still to master, but it has started a change in me that I believe is reflected in the healthier way I think and the better choices I am making in my life.
This I owe in no small part to the advice & wisdom you have shared with me and others on this forum.
So thank you again Phineas and CONGRATULATIONS ON 100 DAYS!!!
Thank you so much, Orbiter! I know I've been a little silent, but I always follow your journal and your journey.
I can tell you shared a lot of my former mentalities, and their downfalls. I'm grateful that you're realizing that all this is a matter of habit-change. Yes, there may (probably are) deeper issues; Yes, there's a spiritual component to it (benevolent versus malevolent forces); yes, there's emotional aspects to this: but at the end of the day, the unwanted behaviors themselves are a a matter of habituation.
What we seek to do with our streaks is to simply desensitize the old neural pathways, and take advantage of neuroplasticity to reboot and rewire the reward circuitry of our brain toward healthy dopamine and healthy sex.
Breaking the cycles of repetitive action is what habit-change is all about. If we can delay the reward (even if acting out!), disrupt the predictable behavior, change our habitual environment we'd normally act out in, set a timer, even if acting out (I suggest 3 minutes), then abruptly (this is important) disrupt it by closing the windows, or looking up a recovery website (like Reboot Nation), we'll be alchemists hacking into our addictions!
I can do it, you can do it, we can do it together!
I can tell you shared a lot of my former mentalities, and their downfalls. I'm grateful that you're realizing that all this is a matter of habit-change. Yes, there may (probably are) deeper issues; Yes, there's a spiritual component to it (benevolent versus malevolent forces); yes, there's emotional aspects to this: but at the end of the day, the unwanted behaviors themselves are a a matter of habituation.
What we seek to do with our streaks is to simply desensitize the old neural pathways, and take advantage of neuroplasticity to reboot and rewire the reward circuitry of our brain toward healthy dopamine and healthy sex.
Breaking the cycles of repetitive action is what habit-change is all about. If we can delay the reward (even if acting out!), disrupt the predictable behavior, change our habitual environment we'd normally act out in, set a timer, even if acting out (I suggest 3 minutes), then abruptly (this is important) disrupt it by closing the windows, or looking up a recovery website (like Reboot Nation), we'll be alchemists hacking into our addictions!
I can do it, you can do it, we can do it together!
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Escapeandnevercomeback
Respected Member
I don't know in what book is this but I remember a line that was something like: Addictions are habits taken to extreme. And I think it makes sense.
Escapeandnevercomeback
Respected Member
Daaamn, bro, 100 days is such a number! Outstanding progress! Very inspiring to get to that place too. I am kind of lost anyway but I've been trying to find what could work for me. You seem to have found what gets you longer streaks. Seriously, I don't feel like there is something between you and the freedom anymore. You sound like you have everything under control. Dismissing urges just like that is amazing. I am not there yet.
That makes sense to me! I thought of it once like: addictions are habitual mindsets; change the mindests [and behaviors] and you'll end the addiction.
Thank you, Escape! I know you'll also find what works for you.
I hope I don't make it sound too easy, as I still struggle time to time with p-subs and/or edging. These are slippery slope behaviors that lead back to the worse behaviors.
Overall, I think I'm in a better place to move forward and leave porn behind, recent struggles notwithstanding. Last lengthy streak, I couldn't shake a strange nostalgia toward p-use or p-memories... This time, it's having MO'd last 8/8/21. That's trying to become a habit, and I'm having to shut it down, dismiss urges, but I'm still not perfect myself in doing this consistently.
I'm looking for consistency right now.
Note to self:
> Red line behaviors: P, PMO, and MO.
> Orange line behaviors: p-subs and edging (even though edging spikes the dopamine worse than just MO'ing).
> Yellow line behaviors: lusting in public, tracking too closely a woman's attention, or depending on beautiful women in social media as if emotionally 'driven'.
Since the episode of MO'ing on 8/8/21, on and off the temptation to MO and edge has been coming up. This has sometimes involved p-subs.
These are 'orange-line' behaviors that are not too far away from the porn-pit, and my red-line behaviors which would be a reset, and a probationary period (10 days).
> Red line behaviors: P, PMO, and MO.
> Orange line behaviors: p-subs and edging (even though edging spikes the dopamine worse than just MO'ing).
> Yellow line behaviors: lusting in public, tracking too closely a woman's attention, or depending on beautiful women in social media as if emotionally 'driven'.
Since the episode of MO'ing on 8/8/21, on and off the temptation to MO and edge has been coming up. This has sometimes involved p-subs.
These are 'orange-line' behaviors that are not too far away from the porn-pit, and my red-line behaviors which would be a reset, and a probationary period (10 days).
Yeah, I saw that, brother! (Obviously) you are not alone! For me, this all seems to come up cyclically (when I'm legitimately horny? ...then acted on illegitimately?). Knowing this about myself, I know this will soon pass---> unless I make it a habit!
Wishing and praying strength for you, brother!
Escapeandnevercomeback
Respected Member
I know it's not easy, man, I know a lot of work is requiered for this. But I guess when you invest the work and do the things right, it looks like it's something easy for you like scoring points is easy for Michael Jordan but there is a lot of work behind all this. A lot of suffering and everything.
On masturbation, it sabotages me and I need to quit it too. My last relapse started like this. "Just some MO without porn" and then it slowly but surely escalated.
Escapeandnevercomeback
Respected Member
I feel you, man. I am not too successful with my quitting. Every time I relapse, I feel like I will never escape. I have 25 days without alcohol and it hasn't been too hard. I hope it was like this with porn too.
Thanks as always for the comments here and in my journal.
@Phineas 808 It said today is your birthday? If so happy birthday brother! Hope you have a great day!