How Shall We Escape?

[Escapeandnevercomeback]

Hey, man, I believe it's actually a good thing that you only relapsed to MO and not full PMO. You have a degree of control over this thing that I like. Those addiction are really a form of comfort and medication, aren't they? I know how this goes, I've been a slave of comfort and self-medication since I was 7. It's not easy to get rid of this unhealthy coping after many years and maybe especially if they started as a kid when noone really has any good coping skills. When you talked about looking for comfort, I felt that. I don't know what the solution should be, building other coping behaviors that are not destructive? Or what. I mean, I'm sure you've made some considerable progress in this aspect so far but then what's the final piece? Why do we keep going back to porn or masturbation? I know it's a repetitive habit, ingrained habit and all this but is it just that? Or something deeper that I don't get.

 

[Phineas 808]

Hey, man, I believe it's actually a good thing that you only relapsed to MO and not full PMO. You have a degree of control over this thing that I like. Those addiction are really a form of comfort and medication, aren't they? I know how this goes, I've been a slave of comfort and self-medication since I was 7. It's not easy to get rid of this unhealthy coping after many years and maybe especially if they started as a kid when noone really has any good coping skills. When you talked about looking for comfort, I felt that. I don't know what the solution should be, building other coping behaviors that are not destructive? Or what. I mean, I'm sure you've made some considerable progress in this aspect so far but then what's the final piece? Why do we keep going back to porn or masturbation? I know it's a repetitive habit, ingrained habit and all this but is it just that? Or something deeper that I don't get.

Thank you, Escape, for the support.

Yeah, being able to keep this in a kind of 'graded approach' as it were, is a blessing of longer streaks. On a major level, I know I'm in control, even if occassionally I somewhat lose control.

Indeed these have been coping methods of mine for years, even if the behaviors themselves have changed forms.

There are three parts in answer to your question:

1) Changing coping methods to something more healthier, as you said. This is why I mention God (for me) because I know that these needs, though manifesting sexually, are a deeper spiritual hunger/thirst. So, in the past- and now- if I'm obsessing or acting out, I'll try and switch it up, and go to my office in the middle of the night, and pray or worship. This has helped me many times.

2) Learning how to sit with these raw emotions, feelings of neglect, rejection, anger, sadness or depression, etc, without the need to 'escape' them through these behaviors. This is part of my 12th principle of Increase resilience and endurance. This, too, is where mindfulness comes in.

3) Seeking to heal emotionally from past trauma and distorted thinking that leads into acting out sexually.

So, there is more than just the physiological and/or psychological habit, but also deeper emotional issues and past trauma. This is why it's so important to be patient with oneself. Again, there's no one-size-fits-all cure, and everyone is different and heals from this differently.

 

[Phineas 808]

Another perspective:

In the last 223 days, I've only lapsed > 7x (counting between June 3, 2021 and January 12, 2022)!

This is a 96.86% success rate for the last 7 months, 9 days.

 

[Takeoff]

This is a 96.86% success rate for the last 7 months, 9 days.

That's an interesting way to look at it
I think measuring the success rates would be good for regular periods of time, let's say a year, seeing the progress could be reeeally motivating.
I'm too tired to write more today, but you have my support.
Your consistency and determination is really admirable.

 

[Phineas 808]

That's an interesting way to look at it
I think measuring the success rates would be good for regular periods of time, let's say a year, seeing the progress could be reeeally motivating.
I'm too tired to write more today, but you have my support.
Your consistency and determination is really admirable.

Thank you, brother! Yeah, I'm thinking of breaking things up into 3 month periods, so I can compare percentages of success to see if I'm trending better, or worse.

 

[Escapeandnevercomeback]

Thank you, Escape, for the support.

Yeah, being able to keep this in a kind of 'graded approach' as it were, is a blessing of longer streaks. On a major level, I know I'm in control, even if occassionally I somewhat lose control.

Indeed these have been coping methods of mine for years, even if the behaviors themselves have changed forms.

There are three parts in answer to your question:

1) Changing coping methods to something more healthier, as you said. This is why I mention God (for me) because I know that these needs, though manifesting sexually, are a deeper spiritual hunger/thirst. So, in the past- and now- if I'm obsessing or acting out, I'll try and switch it up, and go to my office in the middle of the night, and pray or worship. This has helped me many times.

2) Learning how to sit with these raw emotions, feelings of neglect, rejection, anger, sadness or depression, etc, without the need to 'escape' them through these behaviors. This is part of my 12th principle of Increase resilience and endurance. This, too, is where mindfulness comes in.

3) Seeking to heal emotionally from past trauma and distorted thinking that leads into acting out sexually.

So, there is more than just the physiological and/or psychological habit, but also deeper emotional issues and past trauma. This is why it's so important to be patient with oneself. Again, there's no one-size-fits-all cure, and everyone is different and heals from this differently.

I understand what you mean, bro.

 

[Oldnewguy]

Hey man. I know I’ve only been back for a couple weeks, but however I, like most on here have over 20 years of dealing with this too. I’m similar to you in that I have deep childhood issues of abuse and neglect. One thing I’ve realized lately through reflection is that our brain “go to’s” when it comes to trying to get that dopamine flood. I know for me that some of those “go-to’s” are:

1. “One little peek”
2. “I’m also doing this for my wife, and if she’s going to act like this toward me, well I have my needs too.”

Both of these, are always myths.

thanks for sharing your experience and congrats for cutting it off and refocusing. Your progress is not lost!

 

[Phineas 808]

Thank you, Oldnewguy! It's so important to recognize our go-to's, as you said.

 

[JerryTX]

@Phineas 808 Hey brother just checking in today myself and catching up. I too today posted some Psub and edging behaviors that have gotten out of control. Like you I have struggled of late and fell to MO as well. I won't get into it on your journal and you can catch it on mine.

Regardless we have the grace of GOD working for us and through us. Thanks for sharing and helping so many others. When I post at this point I have a sense of guilt to the "group" of my struggles. I want to be further along than I truly am but I know how much I have improved. A lot of it has come with your help and guidance! Thanks and GOD bless you Phineas!

 

[Phineas 808]

Thank you for your kind words, Jerry! I saw your post on your journal and replied there as well.

Let's be patient with ourselves as we continue to better ourselves, improve ourselves in these areas. I know you and I have greatly improved in the last year, despite our apparent 'up-and-down' experiences. Overall, not bad, not bad.

 

[Phineas 808]

Lapsed > MO last night. This has been 4 days since I last lapsed in this way. There were no p-subs involved, and I've been controlling my social media lately. I've not seen P or PMO'd this year, since the 28th and 29th of December, 2021.

This has been a rough week, having had that fight with my wife and lapsing to MO that following Wednessday. But I think that bottom line, this behavior threatens to become a habit. The previous night, I had urges to MO, and I let those urges pass. I caught myself each time I went to act on those urges. And I went to sleep with no further incident.

Last night the urges came, and they were acted on. There was no intent to edge, but to go for the release. There was mental resistance, but it was going to happen... Obviously this is a concern for me. MO is a red-line behavior for me as it could easily lead to P, PMO. And MO itself can become a habit, as it has been in the past. To myself, it represents a lack of self-control, and is not something I wish to have in my life. If it happened once in a while, mindfully with no shame, without leading toward other behaviors, I'd still track it, but it wouldn't be too big a deal. But it seems for me that I get into a mindset with MO that all morals, all self-promises, all recovery goals go out the window- and anything is possible.

Friday night I did see a nude scene on T.V., it was brief and vanilla. It was softcore. It was close to a personal genre. I could tell where it was going, it was anticipated... How did I process that? This leads into changing what porn means for oneself, not what porn is, but what it's meaning is to you, why it still affects you, or why does it still offer something for you. I felt I did good for how I 'handled' it, but in honesty, I was hoping to encounter another scene last night on the T.V. channel app I use...

Onwards and upwards. I'm going to do a separate post to reflect on what I really wanted to talk about this morning...! That way, this won't be too long a post. Thank you all for your support.

 

[Phineas 808]

I've decided to track my lapses and progress on a separate page, which I already do for lapses themselves, but I've created a page where I can track lapses and progress in terms of percentages in two ways:

1. In 90 day periods.

2. Monthly.

For the 90 day periods I began with my 139 day streak with which I rejoined Reboot Nation. It was pretty eye-opening for me as I could see in a broader stretch of time when I was making progress or regressing somewhat. I use the 90 days as a base line of 100% and go from there. I count each lapse as = 1x, regardless of whether it were P, PMO, or MO, but I record what kind it was so as to gauge it's severity.

The first 90 day period stretches from November 6, 2020 to February 4, 2021 and had 0x lapses, and so has a 100% success rate.

The period between February 5, 2021 and May 6, 2021 had 2x lapses, and so has a 97.78% success rate, for example.

This current period, which stretches between November 5, 2021 to February 3, 2022 already has 7x lapses (!) and so if it ends this way (as an earlier period did) it would be a 92.22% success rate, but this period is currently ongoing.

So, obviously the 100% success rate originally achieved last year is what's ideal, and what's possible. This current 90 day period is a lot lower, similar to May 7th to August 5th of last year, but even then my other lengthy streak began on June 3rd, and extended for 157 days! It's not a perfect system, but it allows me to step back and get a bird's eyeview of my progress cut up into these time intervals.

To be fair, looking at it this way is new to me, and so my current period, though it reflects a lot of struggling, was not approached this way until now. Hopefully this on one hand sobers me up as to where I'm currently at, and gives me hope for what's possible.

I also list my lapses there on a monthly basis, and this has flipped the concept of 0 on it's head, meaning that what I want to see on a montly basis are green 0's! "0x lapses"! An encouraging thing to see was during my intitial lengthy streak, where the months December, January, and February of the last and previous year were all 0x lapses.

My next 90 day period begins on February 4th, and is also toward the start of that month, and so I'm looking forward to stringing together these 0x lapses each month, and a 100% success rate for each 90 day period.

 

[Escapeandnevercomeback]

I feel you, man. Difficult days are the challenge. They challenge us to go on without seeking the comfort of our drugs. But even like this, I still believe you're doing a good job in stopping to MO only. I'm sure you'll figure out how to get the momentum back and have 100 percent success.

 

[Takeoff]

you're doing a good job in stopping to MO only

I agree, unless MO works as a trigger for PMO and if it helps abstaining from P then I'd say it's a really good solution. but from my experience MO can be a trigger because it winds up the libido for me. For days.

It's not a perfect system, but it allows me to step back and get a bird's eyeview of my progress cut up into these time intervals.

Hell yeah, it's definitely a good thing. You can do it man.

 

[Escapeandnevercomeback]

I agree, unless MO works as a trigger for PMO and if it helps abstaining from P then I'd say it's a really good solution. but from my experience MO can be a trigger because it winds up the libido for me. For days.

MO definitely pushes me hard to porn. There is nothing like porn for me right now. MO can't even come close to porn, so it's like: "Come on, what's this? If you started jerking off, what are you doing? Do you enjoy only this?" And that's how I start messing with porn to get more stimulation. It can definitely be problematic to some people. But if it can be handled to some degree, it's still better than actually starting masturbating to porn.

 

[Phineas 808]

I feel you, man. Difficult days are the challenge. They challenge us to go on without seeking the comfort of our drugs. But even like this, I still believe you're doing a good job in stopping to MO only. I'm sure you'll figure out how to get the momentum back and have 100 percent success.

Thank you, brother! In this sense, we should even welcome challenges in a true Stoic fashion, so they don't catch us off guard, and so we can use them as training toward that resilience that doesn't seek to hide or escape from pain, but learns how, like you said, not turn to old drugs of choice. If we sit with the pain, as it were, we will find more natural ways of coping and getting dopamine and serotonin to help us deal.

For me, this is taking walks, and even going to journal on Sunday nights (I know, I'm a nerd).

Thank you for your support!

 

[Phineas 808]

I agree, unless MO works as a trigger for PMO and if it helps abstaining from P then I'd say it's a really good solution. but from my experience MO can be a trigger because it winds up the libido for me. For days.

Thank you, Takeoff! Yes, mostly this is how it is for me, it could cause me to lose my resolve in the moment. I don't know if it's because of a libido issue for me, but the association MO has with P, PMO for me.

My two episodes this month were not purposely done to offset any urges, but were responses to urges, so- a No-No.

 

[Phineas 808]

But if it can be handled to some degree, it's still better than actually starting masturbating to porn.

This is so true. Like yourself, MO would just be a slippery slope for me, but it's still better than P, or PMO. My reboot or recovery feels clean and uncompromised if I also abstain from MO, p-subs and edging. This is how last year started, and how I'm going to recover the initiative for this year going forward!

 

[Escapeandnevercomeback]

This is so true. Like yourself, MO would just be a slippery slope for me, but it's still better than P, or PMO. My reboot or recovery feels clean and uncompromised if I also abstain from MO, p-subs and edging. This is how last year started, and how I'm going to recover the initiative for this year going forward!

Sounds good, man!

 

[Escapeandnevercomeback]

Thank you, Takeoff! Yes, mostly this is how it is for me, it could cause me to lose my resolve in the moment. I don't know if it's because of a libido issue for me, but the association MO has with P, PMO for me.

My two episodes this month were not purposely done to offset any urges, but were responses to urges, so- a No-No.

Yes, I can agree with this. Masturbation is part of my porn world and I guess I can't really (at least for now) not associate it with PMO in a way. I feel like my brain wants PMO and if it can't get it, it tries to convince me to just masturbate without porn because it's.... masturbation without porn, right? It shouldn't be a problem. But I feel like I don't crave masturbation, I actually crave porn and this masturbation is just a way to chase the pleasure.