The voice I always hear - "What's one more day?"

[akpal2]

Hey hak, hope you're going well on the weekend.

 

[TheHeartacheKid]

Thank you all for your messages, really makes the aftermath of relapse so much easier to bear.  Thank you especially ak for checking in on me!

@SebNZ, I haven't done it yet, but if I can't make it through another weekend, then I'll have to.  Either that or chain myself up every weekend.  I guess which ever one is easier?  But I do plan to talk to my therapist about programs she would recommend, she's very in touch with this addiction.

Day 1 no PMO
Day 0 no MO

Had some chaser effect this morning with MO, but the rest of the day has been better.  I did find myself having a couple urges to P, but I didn't.  Which on a weekend is amazing for me given the last three weekends and last night.

Only decent thing about the relapse was that it was a relatively short session.  Didn't drag on, I didn't stay up all night indulging, didn't bleed into today.  Didn't even download anything to my phone (for some reason having the videos in my control in not on a website is more appealing...get a rush just from downloading, which is weird because I just delete afterward and can never watch every video...gluttony).

My urge last night actually subsided, there's this woman I work with that I kind of like...I think?  We don't flirt really, but we talk usually throughout the day at work and then on the weekends as well.  Not sure anything will happen there, but thinking that if something were to happen, I don't want this addiction looming over me if starting something new.  That made the urge pretty much go away.  My mind was actually confused, like I had a bad urge, I still wanted to use, but the arousal that usually comes with that was gone.  But when I went to bed I still went with PMO.  But maybe getting the urge to lose it's potency is what made the relapse not nearly as long or as much as previously?

Idk, I have no intention in starting any kind of new relationship with anyone right now, but I think that'll be a helpful tool, knowing that eventually I would like to, and I don't care to bring any more baggage than I already do.

Negative thoughts of course came back hard today, but got better as the day went on.  Feel good tonight, I know I won't give in.  Going to go watch 21 Bridges and then sleep.

Starting to see the cycle though.  Feel good enough to where I can function, negative thoughts still loom, and they make me feel bad enough, which gets me to think about sex and P because it makes me feel better, which leads me to relapse.  I guess  my mind understands that making me feel like complete shit won't get me to relapse anymore.  So I get into a kind of limbo land where I'm decent, but still not great and then I roll down the red carpet for P.

Trying to stay strong...seriously, fuck you addiction.

 

[TheHeartacheKid]

Day 3 no PMO
Day 0 no MO

Made it through the rest of the weekend with no PMO, which is a pretty good win for me given how the previous three weekends went.  However, Sunday and today when I woke up, I was very aroused and couldn't shake the feeling to MO.  It was all memory again, but I'm looking to stop it for the time being.  I can't seem to make significant progress on that front, so I want to make it at least a week (7 days) without it, and hopefully even longer.  Of course no P involved at all ever again would be lovely.

Negative thoughts and hating myself of course retuned, starting to think it's a symptom of withdrawal too.  It's still not nearly as bad, but man the amount of times a day I think I'll never be free of the things I did because they make me a creep and pervert is killer.  Feels like I'm not allowed to ever be happy or be in a relationship or anything like that.  Just live a miserable life of solitude.  I'd kill to feel as good as I did 10 days ago before I ruined it with a relapse.

Urges haven't been bad outside of the morning, and those were just arousal in general, not thinking about P.  But the P urges usually return around the end of the week.  Hopefully this week I'm better prepared for it.

Stay strong all.

 

[King Leer]

I think it's okay to be ashamed. But not so much to carry the shame.  Look back at what you did and be ashamed of that but take pride in every moment you have taken control of. Stay strong keep clean

 

[TheHeartacheKid]

Thank KL, that last sentence about taking pride in the moments I've controlled is great; I so rarely do this.

Day 4 no PMO
Day 1 no MO

Hardly any urges today, but did wake up with MW and very aroused as I have the past few days.  Maybe just more chaser effect?  But it is also normal for me, even before addiction.  Even in addiction I, fortunately, never suffered from any PIED and always woke up with MW.  Anyway I didn't give into MO, just laid there trying to sleep until I got sick of it and got up and got ready for work (which encompasses a shower and my work sweatpants).

Mentally kind of sucked today.  All kinds of negative thoughts and really disturbing images/thoughts going through my head.  So bad at one point I could have cried.  Think the term is intrusive thoughts?  But sort of leveling off now, always gets easier at night.  Really having trouble not wanting to just give up on life with all of this shit in my head.  Not suicide, but just like quit my job, lock myself in my apartment, look at P, drink, eat and then I guess eventually die.  I've no intention of doing such things, but I do get a sense of relief when I think to just give up.  Has to be the addiction.

Keep thinking I'm the worst human and done the worst things, but idk if that's true if all I did was hurt myself and I feel this God awful about doing things that hurt no one?  Idk, just looking for some kind of lifeline to counteract the fuckery my mind is feeding me.

I really cannot stress this enough, fuck you addiction..and fuck you self hatred.

 

[akpal2]

you're doing well fighting on so many fronts. You should be proud of yourself to be keep on fighting and not giving in. Inspirational stuff.

 

[TheHeartacheKid]

you're doing well fighting on so many fronts. You should be proud of yourself to be keep on fighting and not giving in. Inspirational stuff.

Thank you ak

 

[TheHeartacheKid]

Day 5 no PMO
Day 2 no MO

Urges were a little worse today, I actually thought I was going to give in, but despite being the same type of feeling I had in previous relapses, the urge didn't have the same hold on me this time.  Idk if that's a sign of progress, or just that the urge wasn't as strong today?

I really wanted to MO this morning, even had to stop my fantasizing thoughts a few times.  But I didn't, which I was happy about.  The addict was pissed off that I didn't and it's been a bitch mentally since this morning, but trying to take some pride in prevailing.

As I said mentally was not so good today.  Felt better last night after calling a friend and him reminding me of all the same things he had before (thoughts are bullshit, just the addiction fighting back...the awful things I think of myself are first of all not true, and secondly, people who actually are or have done the things I tell myself I am/did, do not reflect on them and hate themselves like I do).  But this morning after I woke up, just so many more intrusive thoughts and images.  My mind starting to question every single thought or action I've ever taken to make me out to be some sort of monster.  So many times today I could have just broken down and cried.  If I was back at my own apartment I'm sure I would.  It's really brutal.  Again I wouldn't wish this on anyone, no matter what that person may have done.  Nobody deserves this, if anybody did, what the fuck would be the point of living?

But again, I know it's so intense right now because of the addiction and maybe even some minor withdrawal from my last relapse, because as soon as I think of P or sex in general, the heavy feelings lift somewhat.  Still really sucks.  To think the worst things in the world about yourself, to twist memories and thoughts to suit that narrative.  Feels like a courtroom battle in my head, with a version of me as the prosecutor and another version of myself in the defendants chair absolutely terrified and crushed.  And a really arrogant/condescending/prick version of myself as the judge ready to sentence me to suffer forever.

Hope others are doing well.  Thanks again @ak for your comment today, one of the few good feelings I had today.

 

[escapeandnevercomeback]

Man, it's great you didn't give in to urges. I, too, have problems with overthinking, rumination etc. but I know porn has a big part in this because when my streak gets longer, I don't think that much. But these days it's been pretty difficult because of this overthinking. It's like my brain doesn't want to respond to me telling it that there is nothing to think about, that I always exaggerate the situation and see hostility in people when it isn't. But let's see. I'm really fighting to get a longer streak for the first time in what seems like fuckin ages. Something happened, I don't know what, and I lost the ability to get more days away from this garbage.

 

[TheHeartacheKid]

Same for me escape, seems like I've lost the ability to make it past the 5/6 day mark.  Relapsed this morning.  Posting here so I don't continue it throughout the day.  Beginning to wonder if I even truly want to be done with this.

 

[King Leer]

Beginning to wonder if I even truly want to be done with this

Haha yeah I have been there before. For a while I just gave up and decided I was just going to do what I wanted and not worry about it but then my addictions just started getting so bad and I became so disgusted I realized I needed to quit again. That was when I ended up going 28 days no pmo, no fap, still my best record ever. Just trust me when I say you want to quit

 

[CertainlySuspect]

Hey Kid,

I know I haven't been posting to my journal in the past few days. I'm doing well. Issues with performance and anxiety seemed to have dissipated since my wife and I had our honest conversations. However, what has struck me about your thread is your self-loathing. You've even offered the question that you're the worst human ever. I have no idea if this is going to help, but you're definitely not the worst human ever. In your very first post you described two events that you hold a lot of shame for, both involving MO in the presence of others without their knowledge. I want to tell you that this doesn't make you a fundamentally bad person.

For the record, I have in the past:
1. Was "the other man" for two separate married women.
2. Have had sex with MANY women where both of us were probably too drunk to consent.
3. Masturbated in inappropriate locations, with people around.
4. Have "said what I have needed to say" in order to get a woman in bed, knowing I did not have any intentions of following through.

These are all objectively bad things I have done in the past. However, I am able to have compassion with myself because I know I am not the only man in the world who has done selfish things, and if you ever meet a man who claims to be a saint, he is lying. Not because I am cynical, but because I am realistic. I have learned from these mistakes and work to hold these actions close to might heart as I grow and evolve. I have apologized when allowed. I have given space for anger toward me when appropriate. I have made myself accountable to the best of my ability. I hold regret for these actions, yet I do not hold shame. Regret says you made a bad decision. Shame says you are a bad person. You cannot hold yourself up to any standard of perfection, because you are human, and you are fallible. You will make mistakes. Let me be clear: EVERYONE has made poor choices in their life. Literally, everyone. You are one and the same. You are not broken, or undeserving of compassion or love.

I see the cycle you're in though. It is one of shame and self-hatred. However, I don't see it specifically because of PMO. Sure, it's the catalyst of the cycle, but you could replace it with something else and feel the same way. Your shame comes from repeatedly doing something you keep telling yourself you won't do. They you fail, and you have shame, and then you hate yourself all over again.

The PMO is not the issue. Your inability to forgive yourself for mistakes is. And no amount of abstinence from PMO is going to fix that. My advice? You need to embrace therapy. Get in there and learn to forgive yourself for the mistakes you have and will continue to make. Be honest with the therapist. If it doesn't click after 6 weeks, go find another one. Therapy works as hard as you do. Your worries, fears, actions, soothing techniques, relapses, etc. are not unique to you. You are not the first man ever to struggle with this.

You have inherent value because you exist. The fact that you're here, being vulnerable with yourself and strangers on the internet, shows that you know you deserve it somehow. Otherwise you wouldn't be here.

It's ok that you did what you did. You don't need to learn to be ok with your past actions. You don't need to try to rationalize them into being "not that bad". They were bad, and selfish, and dumb. That's ok.  Now, pick yourself up, dust yourself off, give yourself a goddamn hug, and tell yourself that those poor choices will not haunt you for the rest of your life. If anything, look at the empathy and compassion and patience you give everyone in this forum. You're obviously easily able to automatically see the goodness in all of us. What's stopping you from looking into that mirror, and giving that man the same love?

 

[TheHeartacheKid]

Hey Kid,

I know I haven't been posting to my journal in the past few days. I'm doing well. Issues with performance and anxiety seemed to have dissipated since my wife and I had our honest conversations. However, what has struck me about your thread is your self-loathing. You've even offered the question that you're the worst human ever. I have no idea if this is going to help, but you're definitely not the worst human ever. In your very first post you described two events that you hold a lot of shame for, both involving MO in the presence of others without their knowledge. I want to tell you that this doesn't make you a fundamentally bad person.

For the record, I have in the past:
1. Was "the other man" for two separate married women.
2. Have had sex with MANY women where both of us were probably too drunk to consent.
3. Masturbated in inappropriate locations, with people around.
4. Have "said what I have needed to say" in order to get a woman in bed, knowing I did not have any intentions of following through.

These are all objectively bad things I have done in the past. However, I am able to have compassion with myself because I know I am not the only man in the world who has done selfish things, and if you ever meet a man who claims to be a saint, he is lying. Not because I am cynical, but because I am realistic. I have learned from these mistakes and work to hold these actions close to might heart as I grow and evolve. I have apologized when allowed. I have given space for anger toward me when appropriate. I have made myself accountable to the best of my ability. I hold regret for these actions, yet I do not hold shame. Regret says you made a bad decision. Shame says you are a bad person. You cannot hold yourself up to any standard of perfection, because you are human, and you are fallible. You will make mistakes. Let me be clear: EVERYONE has made poor choices in their life. Literally, everyone. You are one and the same. You are not broken, or undeserving of compassion or love.

I see the cycle you're in though. It is one of shame and self-hatred. However, I don't see it specifically because of PMO. Sure, it's the catalyst of the cycle, but you could replace it with something else and feel the same way. Your shame comes from repeatedly doing something you keep telling yourself you won't do. They you fail, and you have shame, and then you hate yourself all over again.

The PMO is not the issue. Your inability to forgive yourself for mistakes is. And no amount of abstinence from PMO is going to fix that. My advice? You need to embrace therapy. Get in there and learn to forgive yourself for the mistakes you have and will continue to make. Be honest with the therapist. If it doesn't click after 6 weeks, go find another one. Therapy works as hard as you do. Your worries, fears, actions, soothing techniques, relapses, etc. are not unique to you. You are not the first man ever to struggle with this.

You have inherent value because you exist. The fact that you're here, being vulnerable with yourself and strangers on the internet, shows that you know you deserve it somehow. Otherwise you wouldn't be here.

It's ok that you did what you did. You don't need to learn to be ok with your past actions. You don't need to try to rationalize them into being "not that bad". They were bad, and selfish, and dumb. That's ok.  Now, pick yourself up, dust yourself off, give yourself a goddamn hug, and tell yourself that those poor choices will not haunt you for the rest of your life. If anything, look at the empathy and compassion and patience you give everyone in this forum. You're obviously easily able to automatically see the goodness in all of us. What's stopping you from looking into that mirror, and giving that man the same love?

Thank you Suspect.  Your post really hit me.  I have been with a therapist for awhile, but only recently did this addiction and self loathing come to light.  Been working on it since.

You're absolutely right as well, PMO is not the crux of my issue, I've been like this for years and didn't know it.  I definitely have an addiction with PMO...or if nothing else do it way too much, but now yes, it is primarily a mechanism I use to hurt myself and repeat the cycle.  I was actually planning to write in here today how I use it just to hurt myself to keep myself down.

I love what you said about rationalizing as not that bad.  When I first had these memories, I had breakdowns.  I thought I was (and I guess I still do tell myself) a sex offender.  A ton of shame.  I guess what I keep hearing from my friends is "not that bad" because they hear how I feel about the actions.  No one has ever condoned my actions, they were just shocked at how much I hated myself for them.  But I like what you said, they were bad, selfish and dumb.  And yeah, there isn't a person alive who doesn't have a couple of moments like that.

Give myself a goddamn hug made me laugh.  I'll try.  Thanks Suspect, your post may save me from future relapses, or even from replacing this vice with another.

 

[TheHeartacheKid]

Day 1 no PMO
Day 0 no MO

Yesterday was a bad day.  Worst binge I had in awhile.  Scrolling through and downloading videos to my phone during work and every chance I had.  Working from home gave me so many more chances to look at P and that's when this addiction really took ahold of me.

Got very low emotionally, but managed to pick myself back up by the end of the night.  Deleted the history and every video that was in my phone last night.  This morning woke up and I don't even know why I MO'ed, wasn't even enjoyable.

I don't have much to say...wasn't feeling good all week and work was particularly bad and stressful.  Got an urge and couldn't shake it.  And now when I relapse, I have a desire to binge like I never have before because I know tomorrow I have to get back on the wagon.

I'll make it through the weekend though.  I don't much want to, but I will.  Stay strong all.

 

[TheHeartacheKid]

Beginning to wonder if I even truly want to be done with this

Haha yeah I have been there before. For a while I just gave up and decided I was just going to do what I wanted and not worry about it but then my addictions just started getting so bad and I became so disgusted I realized I needed to quit again. That was when I ended up going 28 days no pmo, no fap, still my best record ever. Just trust me when I say you want to quit

Thanks KL.  I know I do, just frustrated now is all.  Appreciate the support!

 

[Chris Oz]

Your story kind of reminds me of when I used to relapse every Sunday early morning [Saturday night] before church. I used to feel like one of the worst human beings ever. Like I don't deserve to live, to have what I have...it was terrible. But that kind of mentality didn't help me, cause I kept on doing it. I had to go look for help after one wreck after the other (what porn led me to do).

That's when I went online and found supportive forums like this one.  .

When I believed I was worth fighting for, that I am not my actions and I coul be better if I chose to work on myself, one step at a time, that's when real change started happening.

Sure I'm not yet out of the forest, but every streak, day and moment I say No, I take a step closer to the exit.

I believe this should be the mentality you choose THK. Your better than this addiction and worth fighting for. Keep at it. Keep taking one more step, inching closer to the exit of your forest.

The one reward we can look forward to is that, when we finally come out, we will realize that we not only left porn in the forest, but other old defeating habits. We would see us wearing new badges on a captains uniform.

Keep pushing man, you're worth it!
Chris

 

[TheHeartacheKid]

Your story kind of reminds me of when I used to relapse every Sunday early morning [Saturday night] before church. I used to feel like one of the worst human beings ever. Like I don't deserve to live, to have what I have...it was terrible. But that kind of mentality didn't help me, cause I kept on doing it. I had to go look for help after one wreck after the other (what porn led me to do).

That's when I went online and found supportive forums like this one.  .

When I believed I was worth fighting for, that I am not my actions and I coul be better if I chose to work on myself, one step at a time, that's when real change started happening.

Sure I'm not yet out of the forest, but every streak, day and moment I say No, I take a step closer to the exit.

I believe this should be the mentality you choose THK. Your better than this addiction and worth fighting for. Keep at it. Keep taking one more step, inching closer to the exit of your forest.

The one reward we can look forward to is that, when we finally come out, we will realize that we not only left porn in the forest, but other old defeating habits. We would see us wearing new badges on a captains uniform.

Keep pushing man, you're worth it!
Chris

Thank you Chris.  Coming here tonight and reading your comment made me relax a little bit.  Appreciate it.

 

[TheHeartacheKid]

Day 1 no PMO
Day 1 no MO

Well...it certainly was a weekend.  No excuse, just gave into the stress of work (was working the whole weekend, maybe slept 5 hours total) and the emotional stress for some family issues.  It wasn't awful as far as binges go, but it wasn't good either.

I feel okay today, no urges or anything.  Decided to stay an extra week at my parents, because I need to put some days together without P before I go back to my apartment by myself.  I'll just be even more sad and miserable and probably give myself an excuse to relapse.

Right now it feels like I got it out of my system, which is probably why I have little desire, but I'm sure that will change as days go on.

Feeling pretty decent mentally, idk if that's just the fuck ton of dopamine lingering or if I'm actually making progress?  We'll see.

Really appreciate everyone's support, especially Suspect and Chris for their messages recently.  Both enlightening.  Stay strong all!

 

[King Leer]

Yeah this is a frustrating problem to have. It feels like you can be totally strong and committed to quitting one moment then one day you just feel different like someone else takes over and he just does not care how hard you have worked to stay clean. That guy is trouble

 

[escapeandnevercomeback]

Yeah this is a frustrating problem to have. It feels like you can be totally strong and committed to quitting one moment then one day you just feel different like someone else takes over and he just does not care how hard you have worked to stay clean. That guy is trouble

Definitely. Porn teaches us instant gratification and we develop problems with waiting. When the craving starts, it feels like we need to act now and grab the pleasure. The best thing to do is teach ourselves to wait.