zaraki888
Active Member
Yes you can man! I have posted the answer that I believe will save you and all others who still struggle. Trust me on this one.
I need to up my game.
- Thread starter Escapeandnevercomeback
- Start date
Escapeandnevercomeback
Respected Member
Okay, man, I'll give that book a try. Thanks for the help.Hello Escapeandnevercomeback,
May I share with you new knowledge I have obtained while I also struggle with urges and cravings, even after reaching more than 16 weeks ?
Easypeasy has a new version from June 2021 and I just recently figured this out.
He mentioned a new book for those who still struggle while they read Easypeasy and killed the brainwashing. I almost relapsed too as urges and cravings just don't go away.
The insight in urges and cravings is finally explained in the book: Rational Recovery by Jack Trimpey called the AVRT. Addictive Voice Recognition Technique
You can if you like click on the link Easypeasy, scroll down to the last 3 pages and read hack authors new part. As I also read you sometimes use alcohol, this book could be the missing puzzle you need too!
In short, urges and cravings does not come from you. You want to stop porn addiction but at the same time you crave it, right? You and you. No that is not true. To be more precise, there are two of you. The real you and the fake you. That other part of you isn't you but is that animal part of the brain that lives for survival but mistakenly believes porn is just as important as oxygen.
It is able to hide as you and can use your thoughts, feelings and showing images of alcohol or porn but it cannot move your fingers on it's own. You see, urges and cravings won't go away but this thing can be killed.
I find this book as impressive as Easypeasy!
Escapeandnevercomeback
Respected Member
Day 2
I can see the same pattern repeating itself, as if I'm stuck in a limbo. For the past 2-3 years it's been like this: I start the year with renewed motivation to quit porn and alcohol, I have some success with some longer streaks, I crash hard around the summer and then, in the last part of the year, my alcohol and porn consumption "stabilize" themselves to the usual. Actually, I think my alcohol consumption in the last 2-3 months has been higher than ever, I've been drinking a few days a week constantly. My dad pointed this out to me last night when I met him. I said I wanted to go to the store to buy some things and he reminded me not to buy alcohol.
The thing is, I've made very little progress with both addictions and it upsets me very much. On December 18 I got drunk and did a stupid thing, I won't talk about it, but I'm tired of what I become when I get drunk. I become violent, aggressive, I reveal secrets, I say idiotic things, I say things that I regret afterwards. My experience with my porn addiction is not happier. My brain is fucked because of porn binges. I have high social anxiety, lethargy, depression, I don't feel anything and I have no motivation, no drive, no mood, no ambition. I haven't started doing anything from all the things that I wanted to do this year just because the thought of doing them doesn't excite me at all.
I can't lie, I've had moments when I was ready to throw in the towel and give up on trying to quit those addictions and drown myself in them. I can say that those fuckin addictions are almost making me suicidal again, like 10 years ago. I don't know what the fuck else to do. I'm trying to find new solutions. This is the only thing I can actually do.
I can see the same pattern repeating itself, as if I'm stuck in a limbo. For the past 2-3 years it's been like this: I start the year with renewed motivation to quit porn and alcohol, I have some success with some longer streaks, I crash hard around the summer and then, in the last part of the year, my alcohol and porn consumption "stabilize" themselves to the usual. Actually, I think my alcohol consumption in the last 2-3 months has been higher than ever, I've been drinking a few days a week constantly. My dad pointed this out to me last night when I met him. I said I wanted to go to the store to buy some things and he reminded me not to buy alcohol.
The thing is, I've made very little progress with both addictions and it upsets me very much. On December 18 I got drunk and did a stupid thing, I won't talk about it, but I'm tired of what I become when I get drunk. I become violent, aggressive, I reveal secrets, I say idiotic things, I say things that I regret afterwards. My experience with my porn addiction is not happier. My brain is fucked because of porn binges. I have high social anxiety, lethargy, depression, I don't feel anything and I have no motivation, no drive, no mood, no ambition. I haven't started doing anything from all the things that I wanted to do this year just because the thought of doing them doesn't excite me at all.
I can't lie, I've had moments when I was ready to throw in the towel and give up on trying to quit those addictions and drown myself in them. I can say that those fuckin addictions are almost making me suicidal again, like 10 years ago. I don't know what the fuck else to do. I'm trying to find new solutions. This is the only thing I can actually do.
It doesn't appear your links worked.Hello Escapeandnevercomeback,
May I share with you new knowledge I have obtained while I also struggle with urges and cravings, even after reaching more than 16 weeks ?
Easypeasy has a new version from June 2021 and I just recently figured this out.
He mentioned a new book for those who still struggle while they read Easypeasy and killed the brainwashing. I almost relapsed too as urges and cravings just don't go away.
The insight in urges and cravings is finally explained in the book: Rational Recovery by Jack Trimpey called the AVRT. Addictive Voice Recognition Technique
You can if you like click on the link Easypeasy, scroll down to the last 3 pages and read hack authors new part. As I also read you sometimes use alcohol, this book could be the missing puzzle you need too!
In short, urges and cravings does not come from you. You want to stop porn addiction but at the same time you crave it, right? You and you. No that is not true. To be more precise, there are two of you. The real you and the fake you. That other part of you isn't you but is that animal part of the brain that lives for survival but mistakenly believes porn is just as important as oxygen.
It is able to hide as you and can use your thoughts, feelings and showing images of alcohol or porn but it cannot move your fingers on it's own. You see, urges and cravings won't go away but this thing can be killed.
I find this book as impressive as Easypeasy!
His links are actually trackers he's using in his signature, that don't work. He just referred to the book, without linking to it.
The insight in urges and cravings is finally explained in the book: Rational Recovery by Jack Trimpey called the AVRT. Addictive Voice Recognition Technique
You can if you like click on the link Easypeasy, scroll down to the last 3 pages and read hack authors new part. As I also read you sometimes use alcohol, this book could be the missing puzzle you need too!
In short, urges and cravings does not come from you. You want to stop porn addiction but at the same time you crave it, right? You and you. No that is not true. To be more precise, there are two of you. The real you and the fake you. That other part of you isn't you but is that animal part of the brain that lives for survival but mistakenly believes porn is just as important as oxygen.
It is able to hide as you and can use your thoughts, feelings and showing images of alcohol or porn but it cannot move your fingers on it's own. You see, urges and cravings won't go away but this thing can be killed.
I find this book as impressive as Easypeasy!
@ zaraki88 ~ You discovered some of my own secret sauce, lol...! That book by Jack Trimpey (written toward alcoholism) taught me about AVRT (Addictive Voice Recognition Technique)! His book is also what Kathryn Hansen's work (toward eating disorders) is also based on. Because there's a lot of cross-application with how people deal with other addictions. I refer to AVRT in my 18 Principles.
Being able to separate your urges and cravings as 'lower brain' activity is so important in not confusing yourself with why, if we're supposedly wanting to quit, do we still have these drives? It's also empowering to realize that the lower brain, what Jack calls the 'Beast Brain' cannot really make us do anything, we always have power to veto or overrule anything it tells us to do.
@ Escape ~ I'm so sorry, bro, for your recent struggles. I know of the patterns your talking about, as the month of March typically means for me a time of relapse. But being aware of these patterns is good, so we can be aware, and breathe through the nonsense.
Brother, you can do a lot to fight this, for both fronts (P/MO and drinking). Zaraki's advice to check out that book is a must, a mandatory 'home work assignment'! Because it will be a game changer.
I would say a three-pronged approach is needed here, brother:
1. Easy Peasy Method (which I haven't myself read);
2. Rational Recovery (the book) for all addictions, not just alcohol; Other links: Rational Recovery Wiki; Alcohol: Problems and Solutions;
3. Mindfulness. Still challenge yourself to understand this as an all important tool. Other links: Mindworks.
Don't ever give up trying, Escape! Check out these links, set aside serious time for it, and get ahead of this thing!
Escapeandnevercomeback
Respected Member
Thanks for support, man.
Today, I read a big part of the book Rational Recovery and so far I think it's a good addition to the arsenal, for sure. I like many things discussed there and I will be probably seen around here discussing some of them.
There is only one thing I don't agree with, the idea of "Beast is our enemy." This is only my opinion, it's how I see everything. The addicted reptilian brain is not our enemy that we need to fight, it actually has a definitive job for our survival. The more dopamine something releases, the more important this becomes for our survival, in our reptilian brain. Therefore, I see this brain actually trying to help us by trying to make us use porn by any means because it believes that this is very important for our survival. It's just a wrong survival mechanism, a hijacked animal brain. But our rational brain can see through everything and say: "Okay, you want me to get involved in porn behavior because you believe it's very important for my survival but you are actually wrong, it's not, and I don't want to watch porn, end of discussion." It's actually true: "We" make the decision to watch porn, "it" (the addicted brain) can only beg us, bitch about it, tell us all the sweet things, try to plead with us, to bring all the best words in the dictionary and all the reasons, but in the end it's "us" who make the decision to watch porn, not the animal brain. This is the truth. Except the fact that I don't agree with the idea of our brain being our enemy, the book has a lot of good things. I definitely recommend it. It could get a little bit repetitive at times about "how the beast tries to make you drink or use" but it's a good book to bring to this struggle, no doubt.
Escapeandnevercomeback
Respected Member
Day 3
Okay, after reading this in "Rational Recovery", I finally need to do it: I need to make the contract, to make that commitment with myself that I will not watch porn ever again in my life. Anytime I will get tempted, I will be stubborn and remember that I can't break the commitment. It's enough for now. I believe we complicate ourselves too much with this porn addiction, it could help to simplify it and for now I think this is simple enough: I don't want to break the commitment.
Okay, after reading this in "Rational Recovery", I finally need to do it: I need to make the contract, to make that commitment with myself that I will not watch porn ever again in my life. Anytime I will get tempted, I will be stubborn and remember that I can't break the commitment. It's enough for now. I believe we complicate ourselves too much with this porn addiction, it could help to simplify it and for now I think this is simple enough: I don't want to break the commitment.
I agree with this, and I think the author understands this. If he calls it an enemy or treats it like one, he probably refers to the 'illusory self' that the beast/reptillian brain creates, which makes us 'think' that it's our true-self, wanting to drink, PMO, etc...
But you're right, one should never treat natural processes as an enemy, even if hijacked or used in maladaptive ways. Be compassionate with yourself always, even the 'warped' aspects. Seeing our addiction as an 'enemy' (and not ourselves) I think is important, but not the beast-brain as such, but the illusion that it creates.
Escapeandnevercomeback
Respected Member
Okay, fair enough. Yes, I don't want to see the reptilian brain as an enemy because it only functions based on survival and spreading the genes, keeping the species going. Our mind, on the other hand, is other discussion. The book "The power of now" discusses the mind very well. For those who have a constant voice in their head that seems to take them down (me included).
Awesome, man! Let me caution you in regards to one thing, it seems to give no room for error. This is understandable in that, to discover the 'real you' versus the 'beast-brain', and to discover that AV (addictive voice), we want to make such a commitment. But, what does one do with a lapse? I'm honestly sharing that I had this dilemma with making that commitment...
As I read further (in the book or elsewhere?), you have to think of it like, Today, I will never drink (or use PMO) ever again. Of course we never plan for a lapse, but how I made this work for me despite having a lapse is to always think in the present moment. For example, if I've lapsed, instead of wasting time beating myself up (which I was very prone to do), I would just think- from this time forward, I will never use again. And treat anything that even suggests future use as the AV.
Does this make sense?
Escapeandnevercomeback
Respected Member
Yes, I understand you very well. You're right. Let's see how it will go.
Escapeandnevercomeback
Respected Member
I have to say this, man. This book "Rational Recovery" sounds even more helpful to me than Easy Peasy method. I will spend some time with this book in the days to come. It is a book about alcohol addiction and mentioning drugs sometimes but it can be applied to any addiction nevertheless because all addictions share common things.
zaraki888
Active Member
True indeed about the survival part but if you are too compassionate with ''it'' staying friends, it might get you to drink and use porn again. Are you really sure you are not hearing your AV? Look at what porn and alcohol has done to your life.
I was also compassionate with it until it stabbed a knife in my back when least expected, while I was making my big plan the same day. Seducing, telling lies and luring me into wanting to have a peek or touching myself, while I want to abstain and stop ruin my life. I didn't recognize it as AV yet. I MO'd and then followed by sleeping problems.
Let's say you worked so hard to reach to 88 days and beyond and then a voice tells you to have one peek or a drink to celebrate. You recognize it as AV and you say, no I want to keep continuing my streak almost 90. ''AV: you can have just one peek, just be carefull. You are strong enough at this moment in time, you are not going to relapse. Just one visit won't hurt. Test youself to see how strong you have become. '' And then after one peek, you suddenly lose control and relapse.
How would you feel being on day 1 again? I mean you could stop yourself but got influenced by it like a fake friend. And then followed by the chaser effect and unable to get back to 88 days for some time. If you see it as an enemy, you would treat it as an enemy and you won't trust it. The AV will kill the host just to get it's pleasure. Look at how drug addicts behave and their looks. Look at how alchohol addicts take care of themselves, their lives. That is no friendly companion.
zaraki888
Active Member
Hello Phineas 808,
I didn't know you read the book Rational Recovery! Nice to know
I should have read your 18 Principles earlier. I haven't finished reading yet as I am reading very careful and slow.I read your 18 Principles and I like it a lot! I didn't know about Kathryn Hansen's work. Also interesting.
Thanks to Rational Recovery, I can finally learn to listen better to my intuition without the noise. I was always so confused.
Yes yes part 3. Mindfulness is what I forgot to mention very important
Escapeandnevercomeback
Respected Member
I feel you, man. I know exactly what you're talking about. My addicted brain's favorite starting line is: "You can handle a little bit, you're problem is binging, be careful this time and you got it. 20 minutes, just one scene and that's it." And this starts the domino effect. Of course it comes back later and tells me other things that lead me to binges. But before reading the book, I didn't really see it like that, I've gained a new perspective since. Let's see how this will help me. The main obstacle is avoiding to act on the craving for pleasure.
Escapeandnevercomeback
Respected Member
Day 4
I was tired at work and craved porn pretty intensely. I still crave it to some extent.
I was tired at work and craved porn pretty intensely. I still crave it to some extent.
Escapeandnevercomeback
Respected Member
Understanding that the addicted brain wants the pleasure, not me, is a big step, I'm telling you. Because there was always this voice in my head saying "I like the pleasure, I crave the pleasure!" but it was actually the addicted brain's voice. My lack of understanding kept the addicted brain hidden in plain sight. It became one with me and it stole the pronoun "I" and used it against me. It's not "I" crave the pleasure but "it" craves the pleasure. I don't want the pleasure, I don't need it. We need time and patience and eventually things will settle.
Indeed, there's a lot of commonalities between various addictions. I've found help in researching how women deal with eating disorders, too. If you think about it, we all need to eat- and sex, too, is a natural biological function. So, these needs being so close to us, I learn from them.
Again, I learn from people who deal with OCD (especially with mindfulness training). Not saying one equals the other, but there's a lot of commonalities between OCD compulsions and addictive compulsions. Anxiety, PTSD, and of course Alcoholism and drug addiction, I've learned how to deal with my stuff from all these areas....
There's a lot of good stuff out there, a lot of help. Never despair, always learn.
I really like this, brother! Well said!