27 months in the Flatline ...
- Thread starter Red Moon
- Start date
You have orgasm in this time ? ,27 month hard mode?
Red Moon
Member
30 months in hard mode ( no PMO ). 27 months in the Flatline. 24 orgasms in 30 months.
I agree with the comments that you need a girl to rewire with. Some people don’t need it but some people do.
What was the longest time between two orgasms?
Hard mode = no orgasm !!! of any kind no pmo , no mo no sex !!!
The situation is bad : try for at least 6 months without orgasm !!!! don't have one !!! it will improve, believe me, , it's the only way you'll ever make it right !!!Each orgasm goes back to the flatline, after one year maybe 1 orgasm per month .It will improve over time.
In my opinion a girl will only confuse you, she won't help you with anything, if you don't have morning wood you can't get an erection in almost any way you won't be able to with a girl , you will keep trying and force and you will end up in a worse situation .
Red Moon
Member
Were you in the Flatline ? If so, how dit it end ?
PIEDPiperThrowaway
Member
Saw this post as well as the other recent post affirming that all PIED is reversible. I myself am in a similar position to you, and have even been suspecting that I may be "incurable". So instead of making a new post I will add to this discussion, so I can vent, respond to your situation, elicit further advice, etc. But mostly I guess this will end up being a self-centered rant. Hopefully some can relate to it.
I am coming up on 2 years into my reboot journey, and a total of 8 years of PIED. It is unbelievable to type that. I don't know about you but I would consider myself to be on the more extreme end of PIED. By that I mean absolutely no libido/spontaneous blood flow to my dick whatsoever in the last 8 years, save when masturbating, and even then its pretty weak. In my current state sex would not only be difficult, but entirely impossible as a prospect.
I'll admit I haven't been perfect in my rebooting habits. Early on I would relapse frequently, and occasionally view pornography. However, I have not viewed any porn in almost 12 months now, and have masturbated probably a dozen times in the last 2 years. I have been increasingly rigorous in adhering to hard mode (monk mode?) with no masturbation/peeking whatsoever. As a brief digression, I know people's opinions vary on this, but to me it seems clear that masturbation even without porn puts me directly back into the flatline and undoes progress. The occasional and slight returns of libido have only been after 2+ month streaks. Now although my journey has been flawed and set back several times, the initial promise of the "reboot" process was that progress is slow and steady. The path, we are reassured, is nonlinear. Endless months of struggling, feeling beginning to return for a few days, followed by weeks and more months of depressive flatline. But, if we trust in the process, steady progress is being made even when we can't perceive it. Those who've rebooted successfully note this steady and slow progress, the general upward trend of recovery, and identify a point where their "good" days outnumber the bad (i.e. physiologically good as in the presence of morning wood, or psychologically good as in mental clarity and non-depressive states. As many of us realize, the physiological and the psychological often go hand in hand).
But what of us "long rebooters"? Trusting the process of recovery, trusting the modest scientific literature, the various anecdotes of full recovery, after a certain point, begins to feel like religious faith. I can not point to any concrete signs of recovery after two years of fairly diligent rebooting. Brain fog, extreme anxiety, lethargy, have improved somewhat, but those benefits began to show relatively quickly, perceptible even a few months into recovery. Similar with depression. I don't expect these symptoms to abate before libido is recovered. And this is the main issue of course. Even after a perfect 6-month streak this year, I was not feeling much better than last year, and my dick was just as dead as ever. I waited for the smallest sign that a recovery was taking place, but nothing. Every once in a while I would get the faintest hint of morning wood, but again this was happening at about the same frequency and intensity as last year. I knew from the severity of the symptoms that I would have a long recovery. But at this point one can't help but question if they are in fact incurable. My fears redoubled when I read similar accounts on this forum; people who had rebooted for 2, 3, 4+ years and were still in the thick of it, no end in sight. Can I keep this up for even one more year, let alone an indefinite amount of time? Though I am focusing on living a healthier lifestyle in all facets of life, in many ways the days are just getting more and more difficult, and my situation feels more dire the longer this goes on.
To the above point that a long rebooter should make a connection with a girl to break the flatline and progress, this is something I have been considering. However I have always understood that to be against the general consensus of this forum and rebooters in general. The conventional, albeit anecdotal wisdom I have come across has been: reboot in hard mode for as long as it takes for morning wood to become regular, and for libido to return, and only then begin to seek out connections with real people in order to "complete" the reboot. I feel brave and/or desperate enough at this point to give dating a try, even though I feel basically asexual still. It seems possible that such a connection could potentially jumpstart the rebooting process and somehow reignite a dormant sexual desire in a way that will take much longer otherwise. Clearly some people commenting above feel similarly. The argument against this, also presented in this thread, is that if you can't get morning wood, you will not be naturally drawn to and aroused by someone in a real encounter, which will confuse your brain, and likely leave you disappointed, discouraged and further put off from exploring those relationships. It seems both situations are possible.
What I'm saying is, I don't know the answer. Maybe we have to be more perfect in our streaks. Can we say we've truly tried the process if we haven't gone 6 months-1 year without any masturbation orgasms whatsoever? Maybe we do need to find a girl to rewire properly. I try to step back at times like this and take a longer view of the situation. There are many people, now recovered, who struggled longer than us, but eventually made it out in the end. If they had lost faith in the process they'd be back at square one. And, maybe if I am being brutally honest with the pessimist in me, there have been the tiniest glimmers of progress. In the beginning of October I had a weekend of solid morning wood out of nowhere and like never before. It hasn't come back since, and so it felt like a complete fluke, unexplainable. But maybe it was tiny progress. I have no other choice but to hold on to that hope, and stay the course. It is the only option. Maybe you too can look at your journey from the 30,000 foot view. You've been at this longer than I have. Are there hints of anything?
I'm going to close out my rambling here because it's bedtime, another chance to hope for a sign in the morning. Let's keep up the hope for now.
I am coming up on 2 years into my reboot journey, and a total of 8 years of PIED. It is unbelievable to type that. I don't know about you but I would consider myself to be on the more extreme end of PIED. By that I mean absolutely no libido/spontaneous blood flow to my dick whatsoever in the last 8 years, save when masturbating, and even then its pretty weak. In my current state sex would not only be difficult, but entirely impossible as a prospect.
I'll admit I haven't been perfect in my rebooting habits. Early on I would relapse frequently, and occasionally view pornography. However, I have not viewed any porn in almost 12 months now, and have masturbated probably a dozen times in the last 2 years. I have been increasingly rigorous in adhering to hard mode (monk mode?) with no masturbation/peeking whatsoever. As a brief digression, I know people's opinions vary on this, but to me it seems clear that masturbation even without porn puts me directly back into the flatline and undoes progress. The occasional and slight returns of libido have only been after 2+ month streaks. Now although my journey has been flawed and set back several times, the initial promise of the "reboot" process was that progress is slow and steady. The path, we are reassured, is nonlinear. Endless months of struggling, feeling beginning to return for a few days, followed by weeks and more months of depressive flatline. But, if we trust in the process, steady progress is being made even when we can't perceive it. Those who've rebooted successfully note this steady and slow progress, the general upward trend of recovery, and identify a point where their "good" days outnumber the bad (i.e. physiologically good as in the presence of morning wood, or psychologically good as in mental clarity and non-depressive states. As many of us realize, the physiological and the psychological often go hand in hand).
But what of us "long rebooters"? Trusting the process of recovery, trusting the modest scientific literature, the various anecdotes of full recovery, after a certain point, begins to feel like religious faith. I can not point to any concrete signs of recovery after two years of fairly diligent rebooting. Brain fog, extreme anxiety, lethargy, have improved somewhat, but those benefits began to show relatively quickly, perceptible even a few months into recovery. Similar with depression. I don't expect these symptoms to abate before libido is recovered. And this is the main issue of course. Even after a perfect 6-month streak this year, I was not feeling much better than last year, and my dick was just as dead as ever. I waited for the smallest sign that a recovery was taking place, but nothing. Every once in a while I would get the faintest hint of morning wood, but again this was happening at about the same frequency and intensity as last year. I knew from the severity of the symptoms that I would have a long recovery. But at this point one can't help but question if they are in fact incurable. My fears redoubled when I read similar accounts on this forum; people who had rebooted for 2, 3, 4+ years and were still in the thick of it, no end in sight. Can I keep this up for even one more year, let alone an indefinite amount of time? Though I am focusing on living a healthier lifestyle in all facets of life, in many ways the days are just getting more and more difficult, and my situation feels more dire the longer this goes on.
To the above point that a long rebooter should make a connection with a girl to break the flatline and progress, this is something I have been considering. However I have always understood that to be against the general consensus of this forum and rebooters in general. The conventional, albeit anecdotal wisdom I have come across has been: reboot in hard mode for as long as it takes for morning wood to become regular, and for libido to return, and only then begin to seek out connections with real people in order to "complete" the reboot. I feel brave and/or desperate enough at this point to give dating a try, even though I feel basically asexual still. It seems possible that such a connection could potentially jumpstart the rebooting process and somehow reignite a dormant sexual desire in a way that will take much longer otherwise. Clearly some people commenting above feel similarly. The argument against this, also presented in this thread, is that if you can't get morning wood, you will not be naturally drawn to and aroused by someone in a real encounter, which will confuse your brain, and likely leave you disappointed, discouraged and further put off from exploring those relationships. It seems both situations are possible.
What I'm saying is, I don't know the answer. Maybe we have to be more perfect in our streaks. Can we say we've truly tried the process if we haven't gone 6 months-1 year without any masturbation orgasms whatsoever? Maybe we do need to find a girl to rewire properly. I try to step back at times like this and take a longer view of the situation. There are many people, now recovered, who struggled longer than us, but eventually made it out in the end. If they had lost faith in the process they'd be back at square one. And, maybe if I am being brutally honest with the pessimist in me, there have been the tiniest glimmers of progress. In the beginning of October I had a weekend of solid morning wood out of nowhere and like never before. It hasn't come back since, and so it felt like a complete fluke, unexplainable. But maybe it was tiny progress. I have no other choice but to hold on to that hope, and stay the course. It is the only option. Maybe you too can look at your journey from the 30,000 foot view. You've been at this longer than I have. Are there hints of anything?
I'm going to close out my rambling here because it's bedtime, another chance to hope for a sign in the morning. Let's keep up the hope for now.
Red Moon
Member
Thanks for sharing your experience. There are few posts of long flatlines.
For 27 months i have all the flatline symptoms :
- No libido / sexual drive
- Genital numbness and shrinkage, colour of penis changed due to lack of blood flow ( " dead dick " ...feels like rubber, dick feels disconnected from body )
- Basically i feel asexual
I think the Flatline is part of PAWS ( post acute withdrawal syndrome ) .
I understand when you say that full recovery seems like some religious faith . I even get frustrated because of other people stories...full recovery in 1 or 2 months...just like that !
I also don´t believe that trying to have sex is a good ideia in the flatline, in order to " awake " our libido. It seems pointless, like eating non stop in order to lose weight.
I have done research about the issue...but i don´t know. People talk about exercise, meditation, supplements, healthy food, social events, fasting...nothing works.
I believe the most important thing is healthy sleeping patterns. It makes sense that most changes in the brain happen when we are sleeping.
One thing is certain, the Flatline is a living hell. Living the same day everyday.
I've read everything you mentioned my friend and I can only say that you are approaching the problem in the wrong way.You are in the same situation as the guy trying to add some muscles but only abstain from eating unhealthy foods.Cuting off unhealthy food is necessity if you want to gain muscles,drinking some protein shakes is also helpful but both of these won't mean much if you don't do proper physical exercises,you can go 10 years without eating unhealthy and still gain 0 muscles if you don't excercise every day.You need to change your mind and perspective,if you constantly think that you are in flatline and that your dick won't work,by that mindset you are creating anxiety which will for sure make all of those fears a reality as you,myself and many others experienced in their reboot.NoFap is only helpful tool but without right girl that you can spend your time with you will hardly get rid of PIED.Libido doesn't come back just like that,I can assure you that your anxious and flatline-obsessed mind is blocking it.I recommend you reading the book "You are the Placebo" which can give you much more insight in how our mind work,and how our thoughts can do many unbelievable things to our body.
Wish you best of luck my friend.
Red Moon
Member
I don't know what you are talking about but thank you anyway.
Oh I'm sorry then I will be more specific.I wanted to say that NoFap is just a necessary tool to get functional willy but it doesn't mean much if you don't change your mindset-it is as necessary as nofap or maybe even more.Finding a right girl for yourself is also pretty helpful.You can go a thousand days cold turkey and still have PIED and flatline if you don't change your way of thinking.From your story I can only conclude that by deeply believing that you are in flatline and unsuccessfully trying to find a way to get out of it that you didn't do much of rewiring.Also by deeply believing that you are in flatline,you will stay forever in that phase that's just the way our brain,mind and body work and that's why I mentioned the book above,you should read it,at least the first chapter,to truly understand how your mind is subconsciously playing tricks on you,leaving you in constant flatline and creating anxiety which destroys your confidence to pursue a relationship.Believe me when I tell you that flatline can't be as long as 27 months(I know about this since I've read a lot of posts about long flatlines and only after guys changed their mindset they were completely free of it).Yeah and also read this thread: https://forum.rebootnation.org/index.php?threads/21256/
You will run across my reply in which I also mentioned performance anxiety and flatline which you might find helpful.I know how hard life seems now, I've experienced it on my own skin, but you can try my suggestion you've got nothing to lose.Wish you good luck bro!
And now I'm flatline. I have the same symptoms as you. Dead dick without feeling, like a dead fleash. This happens to me after every orgasm. Regardless of whether it's mo or pmo or even sex !!! After 2-3 months the hard mode improves, of course it doesn't go away completely, but you can feel the difference. Unfortunately, I never resisted. I have nocturnal erections almost every night but with the awakening it passes immediately. I tried all the supplements in the world, I went to 10 urologists, but since every night when I wake up, I wake up with an erection , what physical problem could I have?
Red Moon
Member
My Flatline only began because of Nofap. This was proof itself that porn consumption changed the physical state of my brain, especially in the hippocampus. Sex drive is in the brain, we have to wait for homeostasis or brain " default settings " .
If you feel no libido, it is the Flatline. The issue is in the brain.
Relentless Observer
Active Member
Red Moon, PIEDPiperThrowaway,
Thank you for sharing your struggles and story.
I have made it 1194 days without porn (roughly 3.25 years). Before this time I had progressively worsening libido, difficulty arousing, maintaining arousal, lesser firmness, increased struggles during PMO to the point that about a year and a half I M'ed limp...I think that last year and a half was particularly devastating (also, my ejaculations went from powerful squirts to dribbles and the amount reduced to mere thimblefuls). I finally got to the point where I knew P had to be a problem and the urologists I had gone to who claimed P was healthy or it was "all in my head" were wrong. The first 90 days felt like I was moving forward...but, then afterward I couldn't make it more than about three weeks at a time without masturbating, despite a very poor response. After that it seemed like I was making a tiny bit of progress though... about 180 days in until a year and a half in I was getting somewhat consistent and more powerful morningwood. Then, it seemed to slow down. I went out of my comfort zone anyway around that time to start dating a few people and eventually found a very compatible woman. She has been a great light and support in this time and I explained my struggles with PIED. I even managed to have sex with her about a year ago. Since then, I wanted to try a new method for a year: no PMO, but allow myself to fully indulge as able with my partner. Overall, I think there has been some improvement, but I only once achieved what i would consider a 90% erection and most of the time it is about 75-85% hard. I worry that I have been reinforcing this incomplete erection through continued intercourse. Also, I have had sex more than twice a night a few times, so that is some improvement. However, for the past year now I have essentially had no morningwood, and as I discussed I still have incomplete erections. No matter what it requires constant stimulation to maintain an erection. She tells me she is very satisfied with the sex, but I know it would feel so much better to have a full erection and the full sensation that comes with that. I think at the turn of this new year I will tell her that I need to take time off orgasming...
Good luck with your struggles.
Relentless
Thank you for sharing your struggles and story.
I have made it 1194 days without porn (roughly 3.25 years). Before this time I had progressively worsening libido, difficulty arousing, maintaining arousal, lesser firmness, increased struggles during PMO to the point that about a year and a half I M'ed limp...I think that last year and a half was particularly devastating (also, my ejaculations went from powerful squirts to dribbles and the amount reduced to mere thimblefuls). I finally got to the point where I knew P had to be a problem and the urologists I had gone to who claimed P was healthy or it was "all in my head" were wrong. The first 90 days felt like I was moving forward...but, then afterward I couldn't make it more than about three weeks at a time without masturbating, despite a very poor response. After that it seemed like I was making a tiny bit of progress though... about 180 days in until a year and a half in I was getting somewhat consistent and more powerful morningwood. Then, it seemed to slow down. I went out of my comfort zone anyway around that time to start dating a few people and eventually found a very compatible woman. She has been a great light and support in this time and I explained my struggles with PIED. I even managed to have sex with her about a year ago. Since then, I wanted to try a new method for a year: no PMO, but allow myself to fully indulge as able with my partner. Overall, I think there has been some improvement, but I only once achieved what i would consider a 90% erection and most of the time it is about 75-85% hard. I worry that I have been reinforcing this incomplete erection through continued intercourse. Also, I have had sex more than twice a night a few times, so that is some improvement. However, for the past year now I have essentially had no morningwood, and as I discussed I still have incomplete erections. No matter what it requires constant stimulation to maintain an erection. She tells me she is very satisfied with the sex, but I know it would feel so much better to have a full erection and the full sensation that comes with that. I think at the turn of this new year I will tell her that I need to take time off orgasming...
Good luck with your struggles.
Relentless
scorpion1386
Well-Known Member
Did you flatline after an orgasm to porn?
Relentless Observer
Active Member
That is an interesting question. It has been so long I don't recall for certain. It just got to progressive decrease in any sexual response. I didn't feel so intensely in a flatline as I did once I started PMO. However, the last year I could only get any response from P, without any spontaneous result being around girls (which up to about that point I could simply see a girl and think "she is attractive" and get a full erection).
Short answer: I do not think I flatlined after PMO.
Short answer: I do not think I flatlined after PMO.
D
Deleted member 26201
Guest
D
Deleted member 26201
Guest
this is to the ‘long term’ rebooters here who have seen little to no progress in years. i stumbled across a thread from a user who had been rebooting for 3 years and had seen no improvement. he stated in an early post that his doctor had taken his testosterone test and he fell in within the ‘normal range’, with a reading of 11.5 nmol/l. the range of normal testosterone (for nmol/L is 11-30) characterises ‘normal’ for guys aged between their teens and men aged 80+. this dude had the testosterone of a pensioner and was wondering why he had sexual problems for years. it is a joke that his gp didn’t clear up that this wasn’t the normal reading for his age (early 20s).i messaged him already but it’s been years since he posted so i hope he’s still alive or worked out his issue. this problem is easily amended through use of testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). the fact that this possibly lead to this guy taking his life (or at best suffering miserably for 1/3 of a decade) is sickening. there are different testosterone systems besides nmol/L but readings are easily converted on google. this is so important to be aware of. nofap and pornfree are brilliant (and should be practiced either way) however this does not mean they are the solution to your sexual problems. in many cases they will be. if you’re trying to paint the mona lisa at least make sure you’re using a paintbrush.
Red Moon
Member
This post is not about people with testosterone problems. It is about the " Flatline " . Do you see the title of the post ?
- 27 months in the Flatline ... - ( this is the title of the post )
You're welcome.