Porn is not an option

[Blondie]

Day 589

Hey, @Phineas 808.

I typically use the term recoveryism, that folk need to recover from recoveryism, the idea that one is perpetually 'in recovery'- even for a life time! And this, despite being 'sober' for X-amount of years...!

Yes, it's crazy, you could be free for years and still act like you're "in the battle." At least for me, that's terribly tiring.

Seeing a potential dependency on these unwanted behaviors as a process, that one is 'addicted' (or simply habituated depending on severity), isn't to the behaviors or substances themselves, but to the whole process. So, a mind-blower is that even most of recovery is itself a part of that process

YES. I've been seeing this matter in a completely different light these last few days. Porn doesn't have any "power" over us, nor does alcohol over an alcoholic. This "power" over us lies in the mythology we give it. The mythology of what it "does for us" in the moments that we choose to seek it. Like the mythologies of any culture around the world, porn has its own mythology that we have each agreed upon and have never questioned. It's not true, of course, but it FEELS damn true, and that's why it's so powerful.

I've found to be true in my own experiences that the less I think about this stuff, the better. Even if I've stumbled or fumbled, the quicker I can forget about it, the healthier for me. But, looking back from where I've come, this whole process took up way too much real estate in my mind.

Yes, I understand this.

So, why would we go about, identifying ourselves as an addict, hopelessly without power (which disempowers us), and create a lifestyle that literally orbits around this process, even if in the name of recovery?

Misinformation, unfortunately. There's also the understandable need for humans to feel loved and understood, thus, the "recovery community " has that benefit.

Better to recognize ourselves as 'recovered'- especially if these things are no longer habits or depended on in our lives to cope

Truth.

Best,
Friend

 

[Blondie]

Do you think you can be happy without porn?

 

[Phineas 808]

YES. I've been seeing this matter in a completely different light these last few days. Porn doesn't have any "power" over us, nor does alcohol over an alcoholic. This "power" over us lies in the mythology we give it. The mythology of what it "does for us" in the moments that we choose to seek it. Like the mythologies of any culture around the world, porn has its own mythology that we have each agreed upon and have never questioned. It's not true, of course, but it FEELS damn true, and that's why it's so powerful.

This is a major deal. True about the mythos we create concerning what porn is supposed to do for us.

However, when I read the above, the first thought was about how 'big' we make porn, that we define it as an all-powerful force 'out there', that would utterly destroy us if we ever came out of hyper-vigilance. We've made it into such a force 'out there' that it disempowers us 'in here', in ourselves. And this is by no means meant to minimize the dangers of this behavior (notice I shift from the object to the subject), but to take away the power that we've given it.

What ensnares us isn't P itself, but our objectification, and (as you said) mythologizing it to where we've emaciated ourselves and stripped our power of agency in the process.

This kind of lends to Orbiter's questions concerning beliefs, come to think of it...

 

[Blondie]

However, when I read the above, the first thought was about how 'big' we make porn, that we define it as an all-powerful force 'out there', that would utterly destroy us if we ever came out of hyper-vigilance

Word, absolutely! I think I still count days because it gives me some since of "motivation." But motivation from what you might ask? Motivation from my fear of relapse of course. But what is a relapse when you don't even believe you're an addict anymore? Well... a relapse is a sign of another addiction, that is, the addiction to recovery. Yes, I'm a recovery addict. Hell, I don't even know what I'm saying these days, my whole mind has been blown to smithereens with this new information. This book I've been reading has quite frankly blown my mind.

Why do I fear freedom? Maybe I don't actually want it?

We've made it into such a force 'out there' that it disempowers us 'in here', in ourselves.

Yes! The only disease I see these days, is the disease of believing you have no control. Of course, it's not a real disease, but it's just as devasting as one. Thank God, over all these years, I've been "lucky" enough to understand that fact, no matter my other confusions over these matters.

What ensnares us isn't P itself, but our objectification, and (as you said) mythologizing it to where we've emaciated ourselves and stripped our power of agency in the process

Talk about a paradigm shift. But yes, I totally agree.

This kind of lends to Orbiter's questions concerning beliefs, come to think of it...

Yes. @Orbiter and I were on the same wavelength that day, because I wrote a piece asking many questions about my previous beliefs. He liked what I wrote too, which is why I wrote my response to his questions out of pure excitement of what I had been reading. I was perhaps over ecstatic to be sure, but that was because someone else was thinking the same thoughts as I was. We had a "mind meld" you could say.

 

[Blondie]

Day 590

 

[Blondie]

Day 591

 

[Blondie]

Are Cravings Real?

This part of the book is a mind blow. (I modified this passage to porn instead of substances).

"You don’t get cravings; rather, you actively crave, so no resistance is
needed since it is something you choose or don’t choose to engage in.
Recovery ideology has renamed wanting porn as “getting powerful
cravings.” This language distorts what’s happening when a person wants to
look at porn or even thinks about porn. It leads people to believe
that there is an objective force called a craving that they “get” or that
otherwise happens to them. This mythical craving then becomes something
to fight, resist, or prevent by some complicated means. Seen this way, it
becomes something that requires strength and support or a special coping
technique to overcome or resist.

The truth is that craving isn’t a thing or a force; it’s an activity that you
choose to do. You actively engage in craving by thinking in some way that porn
would feel good right now. It feels “stronger” when your thought
amounts to I need porn right now. And there are various shades of
wanting between these extremes. To crave is to actively think that using is
the preferable option. So, like quitting, dealing with cravings is a zero-step
process once you know what you want. When you change your perception
of porn use and see using less or none as your preferred option, then
craving will no longer be an issue because you won’t be thinking I really
need porn right now.

Until you’ve changed your perception of porn use, you may find
yourself revisiting the thought that you want or need porn right now.
All you need to know at this point is that there is no powerful craving that’s
forcing you to use and that, when you think you need to use, you are free to
challenge that thought. You are free to ask yourself Do I really need porn right now?

Habit plays a role because you will be more apt to think these thoughts in
the situations in which you’ve always thought this way. If you recognize
that it’s just habit rather than a powerful craving thrust upon you by the
disease of addiction, then you will realize there is nothing to battle or resist
and the habit of ideating about porn use will naturally die.
In short, know that craving is just thinking favorable thoughts about
porn use and you are free to think differently. Craving isn’t something
that happens to you; it’s something you actively do."


There's much to unpack here, but damn, what a mind blow! The first question is, do I actually believe this? And my answer is, I think I do, but it's hard to let go of my emotional baggage over the issue. To challenge one's beliefs is a hard thing to do, and well, this shit hits hard. Why? Because, if this is true, it means I have never had a "craving" once in my life, but only, my own desires and wishes to look at porn, and damn the consequences. There was no "outside" force forcing me to relapse. There was no "porn demon" I can blame it on or pray over to leave me alone. There was no chemical I can blame it on. All of my cravings have always been my own desires and thoughts, and if this is true, then this is revolutionary. What this means is, fighting these external forces has been for naught. Why? because these external forces are the Mythology of Cravings. It's a great movie, and it may of sold millions of tickets, but it doesn't make it true. All of this time we've been fighting ourselves and are own desires but we have named and blamed these thoughts on something external to us. We have shifted responsibility. We have said our desires are not our own, but are helplessly driven by an "addicted brain," dopamine, and sexy ads on TV, or whatever. Either way, we say that our thoughts are not "normal" because our brains are not normal. What this has created in me, is a man who feels utterly schizophrenic at times, not knowing up from down. Why? Because with this belief, how do you differentiate between your "porn brain" and your "healthy brain"? You can't! This creates confusion and a loss of control. Is it any wonder I've felt a loss of control over the years with this habit? However, this makes total sense now with this new information. How can you feel like you have control over yourself, when you have a deep rooted belief that says your brain is diseased? that your brain has been changed? that your brain has been hijacked (notice how this is in the passive tense grammatically). The short answer is, you could never feel in control with those beliefs. And what is worse, with those beliefs it has been very easy for me to blame my actions on those "external forces" instead of owning my own desires, thoughts, and ACTIONS. Because, instead of saying "My porn brain made me relapse" I have to say...

I chose to look at porn again. It wasn't a relapse
I chose to view that strip cam. It wasn't a relapse
I chose to be an asshole that day to my woman
and I chose to blame it on my "porn brain"

This action, though not easy, extricates you from your schizophrenia and forces you back into reality. And it's only in reality that you can deal with your porn habit. There were no cravings, just your own desires and thoughts, and you acting on them. Of course, these habitual thoughts can seem quite strong and "compulsive" because of your habitual porn use. However, they're still your thoughts, they didn't come from your "porn brain" and that's the key difference. The problem I have with the whole "porn brain" concept is that it seems to be lacking in nuance. For example, we all know that whatever you focus your mind on will automatically make you have thoughts about it. I've been working my ass off at work for weeks now, and I've been thinking constantly about it. I've been been so engrossed in it, that I've even brought it home with me regrettably. You could say, I've had many "work cravings" the last few weeks. But they're not "cravings" they're just the natural product of my brain adapting to the environment I've been drenching it in for the last few weeks. It was my choice, not my brain's. Good or bad, I chose to do this. When it comes to porn, it's no different. The brain is a learning machine. Whatever we decided, whatever we think about, whatever we practice, it adapts to with remarkable speed and proficiency. This isn't because it's addicted or diseased, no, it's doing what it's supposed to do. Thus, when we've "chosen" to drench it in porn for years, when we've practiced this activity for years, when we've become "masters" of this activity for years, and even more importantly, when we've believed with full conviction all the false beliefs we have about porn and what it does for us, you better believe you will "feel" like you have no control whatsoever. And yes, you will have "compulsive" thoughts too. But these thoughts are not external, they're not coming from the "porn brain" or whatever external force you want to give credence to. No, these thoughts are yours. This is why when I haven't looked at porn for a year or so, I can honestly say, my brain is "healed." However, we know it wasn't diseased in the truest sense of that term, so saying it was healed is slightly misleading, though I've said it many times. What's really going on is that the brain has adapted to its new environment, and that's it. Our brain is our helper, we are not a servant to it. Thus, whatever we choose to think on and act on, it only helps us to make automatic, like driving a car. So of course, if I've chosen to drench it in porn and sexuality 24/7, it's going to make that activity easier for me, and my thoughts will be "compulsive." If I've chosen to drench it in another activity like school, it will adapt and make it easier to do that too. The brain is OUR servant, not the other way around. But the key thing to remember is these thoughts are ours. These desires are ours, they are not "uncontrollable cravings" attacking us like an enemy. There is no fighting that needs to be done. The beautiful thing about this is, when you stop thinking and blaming your thoughts and the following actions on things outside of you, you start to gain control again, and become ONE MIND AGAIN. This is how you win.

Of course, this brings up a hell of a question. The million dollar question in fact. Why the fuck would we continue to do something when we say we don't want to do it? Why would we continue in a habit of our OWN CHOOSING, if the consequences can kill us and make us loose everything we love? I don't have the answer for that today, or the time, however, I will say this. The book says it bluntly, and in fact, so does my tagline. We never really wanted it in the first place. This isn't a judgement on anyone here, or if it is, hell, I've returned to porn over forty times over the last seven years, so obviously I'm putting myself in the same boat. However, the more nuanced answer would be, it's not that we didn't want to quit, it's that deep down inside we still think that a life with porn, will be a happier life than a life without porn. That's it. That's the answer. That is to say, our beliefs about porn and what it does for us are false. And it's only when we confront those beliefs in an honest and non-judgmental way, can we ever really change this habit once and for all.

But first we have to

Own our thoughts and desires
Own our actions
Own the consequences
Own our love for porn
Own the reasons and beliefs why we love porn
Then, give ourselves permission to honestly look at those reasons and beliefs and ask, are they really true and helpful to us?

That's all I have for now. There's much here to think about, and I don't even know if I believe it all myself. But it feels right, looking at my own story. Which is all any man can ever do.

 

[PrometheusUnbound]

It's an interesting passage. For me I don't agree that one actively craves. I think we give cravings power by focusing on them, and also compounding and increasing them with our reactions to them, but I think when we look closely at our minds, we don't choose what's in there. That pretty much happens by itself but we get to choose what we do with that. And for me that's what the 'free will' part is, is having the power to choose how to respond to what is arising in the mind rather than being completely responsible for what happens in there.

 

[Blondie]

Day 592

Hey, @PrometheusUnbound, so happy you stopped by. I'll respond to you when I can.

 

[Blondie]

It's an interesting passage. For me I don't agree that one actively craves. I think we give cravings power by focusing on them, and also compounding and increasing them with our reactions to them, but I think when we look closely at our minds, we don't choose what's in there.

I totally agree. I always say, it's like telling someone not to think of a pink elephant. Bam, you just did! Focusing on it. Worrying about it. Walking around in fear only makes cravings worse. I think I agree with your last statement too, but only with this caveat. Random "porn thoughts" or anything for that matter, do have a mind of their own for sure. Much of that is hard to control. They just pop up and come and go as they please. Of course, it's what we do afterwards with those thoughts, is the key moment. However, we do have some control over what pops into our head, because we have total control over our actions and purposeful thoughts. Because, if we've been drenching our minds with porn and purposely thinking about it for days, I'm pretty damn sure our random "porn thoughts" will increase and will be popping in our brains "uncontrollably." That seems to be my case anyway.

And for me that's what the 'free will' part is, is having the power to choose how to respond to what is arising in the mind rather than being completely responsible for what happens in there.

I agree. The free will part is tricky, and it's easy to go to extremes on one end or the other. But you're right, it's here where free will can shine. If we choose to shine it is another matter.

Best

 

[Blondie]

Day 593

 

[GBS]

Getting mighty close to 600. Keep going pal

 

[Blondie]

Day 594

Getting mighty close to 600. Keep going pal

Thank you, my friend. I'm real close!

 

[Blondie]

Day 595

 

[Blondie]

Day 596

I'm a free man.

 

[kopp]

Wow congratulations this is amazing!

 

[Blondie]

Day 597

Wow congratulations this is amazing!

Thank you, @kopp!

 

[Blondie]

Day 598

 

[Blondie]

Cause and Effect

Over the last week, I've been experimenting watching a few "racy" movies with my Lady. Not porn at all, just regular movies that in the past I wouldn't have watched because of certain scenes. I woke up today ever so slightly scared, because, what if I would be compelled to look at a strip cam again? But then, I took a deep breath and realized, that would be a choice on my part and nothing more. There is no "mystical connection" between me seeing something "racy" or "sexy" and me instantly having to go look at porn or whatever. That is a made up connection, and often just an excuse and nothing more. In other words you could say, this is a belief system I've chosen to believe in.

The book says it perfectly, us "addicts" often say after a relapse, "Seeing X (fill in the blank) caused me to relapse." In other words, "I relapsed because of watching a sex scene on TV." or "I relapsed because I walked down the street and happened to come upon a bar." However, this is unscientific. A true scientific sense of cause and effect is completely predictable, and can be demonstrated over and over again, with the end result always the same. For example, an apple will always fall to the ground (at least on earth) Why? because of gravity. This can be demonstrated over and over again. However, a sex scene on TV doesn't automatically cause all men to run to their computers and view a strip cam. Obviously, this isn't a true cause and effect like we've been telling ourselves, or worse, the recovery community has been telling us for years now. No. This is not a true scientific cause and effect, but in reality, it's a belief system. It's a belief we've CHOSEN to believe in, and just because we've chosen to believe in it, doesn't make it true. However, woe to the man who believes it, because his actions will be influenced by it greatly.

What other beliefs do we have that might be false? Here's a few beliefs that come to mind

• Dopamine caused me to relapse
• I'm an addict, and because of this fact, I relapse
• YouTube caused me to relapse
• My boredom caused me to relapse
• Because of my stress and anxiety, I relapse
• I relapse because of my childhood trauma

And on and on it goes, we state our causes and effects like they're truth bombs, but in reality, they're only beliefs we've chosen to believe in. I'm not here to argue whether the chemical dopamine does or does not influence your behavioral choices, however, if you choose to believe the chemical dopamine causes you to relapse, well, why even argue about this, of course it causes you to relapse. You choose to believe it, and thus, you will act accordingly. If you choose to believe you're an addict, your actions will follow your beliefs, and you will always be able to excuse yourself when you've "accidently" hurt your loved ones. I speak from experience with this one, and trust me, they totally "understand." If you choose to believe YouTube or Instagram makes you relapse, then of course it does. All users of social media have experienced the same phenomenon, just like an apple falling to the ground. They see a hot model in yoga pants on Insta, and are instantly "compelled" to look at porn or strip cams uncontrollably. One could almost call it, gravitational! As the Bible says, as a man thinketh, so is he. Or, in layman's terms, if you believe it, so be it.

Now childhood trauma is one that really hits home, because I've said - even recently - this could be the one reason I would relapse again. Furthermore, because of this fact, I said I would need to work through my shit to make sure I'm fit to be on guard when temptation strikes again. I've said this over and over again on my thread throughout the years. I've even said my childhood trauma caused my big relapse two years ago. I see now, this is not a scientific view of cause and effect, but rather, it is a belief I chose to believe in.

I chose to believe it
I chose to believe it
I chose to believe it

Having childhood trauma does not make one prone to "addictions." The book and statistics show there are many people in the world with worse traumas than mine, who were never addicted to anything. This isn't denying trauma isn't hurtful, but it does show there is no true scientific cause and effect going on here, but only a belief that it's so. Because if it were a true cause and effect, all people with trauma would have addictions, but that's simply not the case. Thus, it's a false belief. The problem with false beliefs, is that they can turn into excuses, even if we don't mean them to. I don't think I've ever purposefully excused my behavior necessarily, however, I have done this to an extent, because I've excused myself many times with these excuses! I fully believed in each one of these "causes" stated above, and I've mentioned everyone of them multiple times here on this forum. Why did I relapse? Well, because.... You get the story.

What we choose to believe, is more important than the actual truth of it.

Thus, there is no true cause and effect between me watching a sex scene and then being "compelled" to watch a sex cam. There's only the mythology that there is. But that's the key point, it's only a myth. And once you understand that it's "just a myth" then you can see it for what it is and move on.

You are free, but if you choose to believe it is another matter.

Cause and effect
Cause and effect
Cause and effect

We should all sincerely ask ourselves, are our reasons true causes and effects, or are they only false beliefs?

The book mentions how a lion raised in a cage behaves when first released back into the wild. The door to the cage will be opened, however, the lion will not exit the cage at first, until he discovers and realizes he's free to go. Furthermore, upon exiting, he will not venture further beyond it, until he discovers and realizes he's free to do that as well. Once he discovers and realizes this, the lion never returns and finally accepts his freedom. For us who are here on this forum, the cage represents our false beliefs and perceptions of our "addiction."

We believe we are held back by our "addiction"
We believe we are compelled by dopamine or some other external force to relapse
We believe our trauma perpetually ties us down to this habit we hate
We believe our anxiety and stress "compel" us back to it again and again
We believe porn actually helps us cope with our sadness
We believe "triggers" compel us back
We believe we are helpless to its "power" over us

All of these are beliefs
All of these have been chosen by us, either consciously or not
All of these are not facts in of themselves
All of these are not a real scientific cause and effect
All of these can be freely chosen or disregarded at will

I sincerely ask all of you to look at these beliefs and ask yourself, is this actually true? And if this isn't true, why do I CHOOSE to believe it? Are these beliefs helping me, or, are they harming me?

I believe from the bottom of my heart, we are all lions on this forum, however, we are lions stuck in the cage of our own beliefs. The door is wide open before us, but yet, we can't see it. Our beliefs about the cage have made us blind to the reality. To our reality. To the truth.

Let us venture out into the wild as the lions we truly are. And let us leave behind these old beliefs that have held us back all this time.

 

[Gracie]

Blonde, I really appreciate you taking the time to take the “porn cube”. ( I need visuals) and turning it slightly and giving a whole new way to look at it. I do want explain my counting is earlier post. I was so gutted that I would count hours that I would not cry. Then a day and another. Trying to figure out to stay or go. Now on to the beliefs. The belief my husband had that at the ripe old age of 50, I no longer wanted sex. There was no conversation about this. Nor had I withdrawn physically. He just stopped. I would have to ask. If I did not ask there was none.So then we get two belief systems running, his that is I do not want sex and mine that he does not want me. And you guys may be all nice and discussy with your wives but mine was not. He was mean ( not hitting) and used my painful things I shared against me. As a result his belief was it was all me. The second belief system mine was that I was just god awful. I had nothing to offer him. But, I loved him anyway. And that was what I chose. And now when thing are getting a little off I hop right on whatever it is. My belief about our marriage is not the same. I am changed forever in how I view him. I will never go through that again. When you look at beliefs look at your relation s friends and family.