downhillfromhere
Well-Known Member
Around two weeks I felt awful… it got better though, keep going! 
Escape Velocity - Orbiters Journal
- Thread starter Orbiter
- Start date
searching4good
Active Member
Sorry to hear that Orbiter but it's great that you're back on here acknowledging the slip, and reflecting on the factors that contributed to it.
You may have used P on day 15, but that means you had 14 days clear. That's pretty awesome! There's no reason at all you can't build on that and go further and further next time.
We're in your corner.
You may have used P on day 15, but that means you had 14 days clear. That's pretty awesome! There's no reason at all you can't build on that and go further and further next time.
We're in your corner.
PMOed quite a lot since my last post. Not really getting any momentum or feeling any motivation at this point. It's crazy given how detrimental it is, I think there's a feeling of hopelessness that kills any motivation or effort to change.
The reality is I have reached a point in my life where I cannot move forward unless I leave not only PMO behind but the binge drinking, binge internet usage, habitual procrastination etc.
I have all the tools I need to give up...and yet I can't.
Will I ever be able to? I don't know anymore
The reality is I have reached a point in my life where I cannot move forward unless I leave not only PMO behind but the binge drinking, binge internet usage, habitual procrastination etc.
I have all the tools I need to give up...and yet I can't.
Will I ever be able to? I don't know anymore
Orbiter, what you say above is completely understandable as to the feelings of repeatedly dealing with this- now, and even down through the years...
I can so relate to this, and why I'm taking things beyond the surface level of success or fail. Yes, days on days, weeks on weeks of abstinence are certainly preferable, but not a true indicator of where we're at. I might abstain for 100 days (as an example), but have I really healed? Or, I may have lapsed yesterday, but am actually on my way to a deeper healing.
I'll explore this more (as I'm certainly living it out) in my journal tomorrow, but I'll leave this here for now:
The fact that it upsets you, frutstrates you, and causes doubt is proof enough that you want change, that you don't want things to continue as they are. The good news is that when we reach for a deeper understanding and a greater insight, our behaviors can melt away like last winter's snow.
Always believe in you, brother.
I can so relate to this, and why I'm taking things beyond the surface level of success or fail. Yes, days on days, weeks on weeks of abstinence are certainly preferable, but not a true indicator of where we're at. I might abstain for 100 days (as an example), but have I really healed? Or, I may have lapsed yesterday, but am actually on my way to a deeper healing.
I'll explore this more (as I'm certainly living it out) in my journal tomorrow, but I'll leave this here for now:
The fact that it upsets you, frutstrates you, and causes doubt is proof enough that you want change, that you don't want things to continue as they are. The good news is that when we reach for a deeper understanding and a greater insight, our behaviors can melt away like last winter's snow.
Always believe in you, brother.
Thank you Phineas & Escape. Wise words & food for thought.
It is Day 0 for me today. It's been a bad week i'm not going to lie.
I have made a decision I am going to return to regular journaling. Even if it means lapsing every week instead of every day, there is value, necessary reflection, support & accountability I need from this place at this stage.
It is Day 0 for me today. It's been a bad week i'm not going to lie.
I have made a decision I am going to return to regular journaling. Even if it means lapsing every week instead of every day, there is value, necessary reflection, support & accountability I need from this place at this stage.
You're welcome, Orbiter!
Walking out our healing together.
Walking out our healing together.
Day 1 Today
I returned to work today after a week long break. It went, objectively speaking, fine but it felt awful. While there were many things that I enjoyed about the break, it was a bad period in terms of staying clean from anything. All bets were off and for a few days of the week it felt like I kind of lost control. I blew a lot of money on alcohol, drugs, buying porn etc. more than I can afford which is something I am going to be feeling the consequences of for weeks after. My gut still hurts from the alcohol & dehydration. My head is a mess and the skin around my nose to my lips is still peeling from everything I was snorting over the weekend.
Something that hit me was in between these binges I noticed I would try and force an equal & opposite in other areas. For example after one binge I forced myself out on a run ridiculously early in the morning that went for hours and I was (at least at this point in time) physically incapable of completing as a way to 'snap myself' out of it. It wasn't an exaggeration to say I was probably close to injuring myself in the process. Madness!
Reading back on some recent reflections from Phineas, I can't help but recognize something here that goes beyond the act of over-compensation. Acting out of shame and basically punishing oneself which of course just leads this cycle to repeat. Needless to say I had a serious binge again within 24 hours of this event.
Another thought that i've been contemplating is the deeper nature of shame and how as individuals with addictive sexual compulsions we relate to it. I always thought of shame as a response to the addiction but now I see another side to it. That the shame can in fact also be the motivator - the emotion that instigates the acting out, not the consequence of it.
Do I feel a sense of shame towards sexuality? Sexual feeling & urges? Romantic feelings or desires? Do I feel sinful? Inferior? Unworthy of having these feelings reciprocated? The answer is, in many of these respects...sadly yes.
It's a feeling that ties to deeper feelings of inferiority for sure but it's all there. Almost anytime I feel something of a sexual or romantic urge towards a woman, I feel the urge to rationalise & talk myself out of it. I feel the need to moralise the feelings and shame myself for even considering them. Once that happens I then proceed to soothe the feeling of shame & rejection by escaping through porn, masturbation, porn & prostitute fantasizing etc.
That's part of why so many of my relationships fail. That's why it is so hard for me to meet women or make relationships even happen in the first place. I just can't live with, be comfortable with or make space for those feelings. I have to 'stamp it out' through indulging in the addiction, bingeing those feelings away, objectifying the focus of these feelings i.e women, rationalisation, moralisation, all the usual.
While i'm not sure exactly how to wrap my head around it much less manage or address it, it does perhaps shines a light on why I still struggle so much on such a fundamental level to break free of this addiction. Whether there is substance here or if it's all just psycho-babble, I feel like I at least need to explore this further and see if I can find some answers somewhere within it all.
I returned to work today after a week long break. It went, objectively speaking, fine but it felt awful. While there were many things that I enjoyed about the break, it was a bad period in terms of staying clean from anything. All bets were off and for a few days of the week it felt like I kind of lost control. I blew a lot of money on alcohol, drugs, buying porn etc. more than I can afford which is something I am going to be feeling the consequences of for weeks after. My gut still hurts from the alcohol & dehydration. My head is a mess and the skin around my nose to my lips is still peeling from everything I was snorting over the weekend.
Something that hit me was in between these binges I noticed I would try and force an equal & opposite in other areas. For example after one binge I forced myself out on a run ridiculously early in the morning that went for hours and I was (at least at this point in time) physically incapable of completing as a way to 'snap myself' out of it. It wasn't an exaggeration to say I was probably close to injuring myself in the process. Madness!
Reading back on some recent reflections from Phineas, I can't help but recognize something here that goes beyond the act of over-compensation. Acting out of shame and basically punishing oneself which of course just leads this cycle to repeat. Needless to say I had a serious binge again within 24 hours of this event.
Another thought that i've been contemplating is the deeper nature of shame and how as individuals with addictive sexual compulsions we relate to it. I always thought of shame as a response to the addiction but now I see another side to it. That the shame can in fact also be the motivator - the emotion that instigates the acting out, not the consequence of it.
Do I feel a sense of shame towards sexuality? Sexual feeling & urges? Romantic feelings or desires? Do I feel sinful? Inferior? Unworthy of having these feelings reciprocated? The answer is, in many of these respects...sadly yes.
It's a feeling that ties to deeper feelings of inferiority for sure but it's all there. Almost anytime I feel something of a sexual or romantic urge towards a woman, I feel the urge to rationalise & talk myself out of it. I feel the need to moralise the feelings and shame myself for even considering them. Once that happens I then proceed to soothe the feeling of shame & rejection by escaping through porn, masturbation, porn & prostitute fantasizing etc.
That's part of why so many of my relationships fail. That's why it is so hard for me to meet women or make relationships even happen in the first place. I just can't live with, be comfortable with or make space for those feelings. I have to 'stamp it out' through indulging in the addiction, bingeing those feelings away, objectifying the focus of these feelings i.e women, rationalisation, moralisation, all the usual.
While i'm not sure exactly how to wrap my head around it much less manage or address it, it does perhaps shines a light on why I still struggle so much on such a fundamental level to break free of this addiction. Whether there is substance here or if it's all just psycho-babble, I feel like I at least need to explore this further and see if I can find some answers somewhere within it all.
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Great analysis above, Orbiter! Going on your run reminded me of what 'binge eaters' will do, they'll overcompensate with exercise. I know this is all so frustrating...
For myself, prone to hyper-moralizing, I had to take morality off the table- so to speak. Grace helps me to do that, believing that, no matter what, I'm forgiven of ALL my sins, or failures. This may apply if one is a praying man, I'll even include God in the whole temptation process (and I'm aware when I'm shutting Him out too). "Well, God, I'm thinking about doing this and the other..." And, I've more than once circumvented a lapse by saying, "God, I know that even if I do thus and so, You've forgiven me already, and have made me righteous before you."
This may be counter-intuitive, as if we're giving ourselves a 'licence', but whatever takes shame off the table, which for me was 'radical grace'- or in recovery, we may also look into 'radical acceptance'.
This is for sure a short answer, but exploring your deeper feelings is certainly in order.
Bottom line, standing with you, brother.
For myself, prone to hyper-moralizing, I had to take morality off the table- so to speak. Grace helps me to do that, believing that, no matter what, I'm forgiven of ALL my sins, or failures. This may apply if one is a praying man, I'll even include God in the whole temptation process (and I'm aware when I'm shutting Him out too). "Well, God, I'm thinking about doing this and the other..." And, I've more than once circumvented a lapse by saying, "God, I know that even if I do thus and so, You've forgiven me already, and have made me righteous before you."
This may be counter-intuitive, as if we're giving ourselves a 'licence', but whatever takes shame off the table, which for me was 'radical grace'- or in recovery, we may also look into 'radical acceptance'.
This is for sure a short answer, but exploring your deeper feelings is certainly in order.
Bottom line, standing with you, brother.
Dungalef
Active Member
This is so true @Phineas 808...I've found my own experience to be much the same. Learning to really internalize grace (God's grace, for me) for me helped so much in freeing me to really deal with the issues. To buckle down and fix stuff not because I feel horrible about myself, but because I really want to be better. If I'm just scared and ashamed of relapse, it's so hard to actually explore what's going on inside. You just want to cringe away and hide instead. But when you know you are loved and accepted and really and truly OK no matter what, then you can finally find a place inside yourself where you really believe that you can be better.
Unfortunately I lapsed & PMOed again. I was just tired, in auto-pilot and put myself in the wrong position at the wrong time. It feels embarrasing & demoralising coming here and admitting this mistake but it must be done. There's nothing I can do but learn from it, move forward & keep to my commitment to remain accountable by posting here.
Both of your reflections on grace are interesting. While I don't have much comment to add at this time, I shall consider it further.
Both of your reflections on grace are interesting. While I don't have much comment to add at this time, I shall consider it further.
searching4good
Active Member
I'm sorry to hear on the slip @Orbiter but give yourself a pat on the back for logging back in and staying accountable. You WILL crack this - keep working at it, keep staying the course and keep remembering why you're doing this ...why we're all here doing this. We have seen the truth and there's simply NO OTHER OPTION.
Thanks Searching,
I think aiming for consistency is the key here. Looking at the big picture, it may seem like I don't give up. Looking at the big picture, maybe it seems that way which might be why, as counter-productive as it ultimately is, I focus on that so much.
The truth is I basically give up on myself a little bit every time I PMO. The act of PMO itself is basically the act of giving up. For whatever reason or whatever temptation, saying it's all too hard and throwing in the towel only to regret it thirty or so minutes later.
So I think if I can't chain a decent number of days together, at the very least I can work on learning to bounce back quicker and not self-sabotage to such an extreme.
For the short term I think this will mean both a return to the basics and, perhaps more importantly, learning to forgive myself and move forward rather than get trapped in these downward spirals back to square one every time something goes wrong. I guess this is where grace comes in?
Thank you all for the advice & support. It is Day 1.
I think aiming for consistency is the key here. Looking at the big picture, it may seem like I don't give up. Looking at the big picture, maybe it seems that way which might be why, as counter-productive as it ultimately is, I focus on that so much.
The truth is I basically give up on myself a little bit every time I PMO. The act of PMO itself is basically the act of giving up. For whatever reason or whatever temptation, saying it's all too hard and throwing in the towel only to regret it thirty or so minutes later.
So I think if I can't chain a decent number of days together, at the very least I can work on learning to bounce back quicker and not self-sabotage to such an extreme.
For the short term I think this will mean both a return to the basics and, perhaps more importantly, learning to forgive myself and move forward rather than get trapped in these downward spirals back to square one every time something goes wrong. I guess this is where grace comes in?
Thank you all for the advice & support. It is Day 1.
Exactly, Orbiter! You're never truly back to square 1, why? Because we can never unlearn what we've learned. Sure, we may have [re-] sensitized those nueral pathways through habituation, but what we know, we know.
I want to comment on what you also said above:
I'm not contradicting what you say here, but consider: on a certain level, you're simply acting according to a habitual script. This is simply your habit right now- we can say addiction, too, an addiction to dopamine- but what is habituated can become unhabituated.
I know each time we act out we let ourselves down, break a promise to ourselves. Two ways to approach this:
1. Stop making promises to ourselves. Take this thing one day at a time for now. Be very, very gentle with yourself, compassionate to the nth degree. Making promises, setting rules, gritting our teeth, all of that just feeds into the whole thing. Instead, begin seeing yourself as already free, and maybe your brain just has to catch up. Dig deeper, dare to believe that maybe you're free right now. Cetainly, that's where we're going anyway, right? Why not 'teleport' yourself there now?
2. Since we've habitually let ourselves down, as it were, begin to rebuild that confidence in yourself again. Make little promises to yourself that you can keep, and then celebrate those. Promise yourself today, 3 days, 5 days, 1 week, 2 weeks, little goals that each time you meet them, you've kept a promise to yourself. If we're in the habit of breaking promises to ourselves, our confidence in our will-power is greatly diminished. Hypofrontality (brain-fog), too, makes it harder to trust in our ability to say 'NO'. But, like any muscle, start with the small commitments, and then work up from there.
The two approaches above may seem to contradict, but they are just different perspectives and vantage points, and can perhaps even be followed on different levels or planes, if you will. The first is more deeper and fundamental, even heart-level; the second is more surface and deals with what we can do today. Both should be practiced, and this house of cards will implode, and we'll be free.
I see what you mean Phineas. It's tackling the same issue but the two points illustrate a different approach. The idea of not making arbitrary promises & rules to break and just approaching each day one at a time, living it free of porn like one has already quit. I'll certainly do what I can to take it on board.
I had a tricky day today as I had some drinks with some friends the previous evening. Not enough to write myself off but enough to feel the usual fatigue, hangover and, more to the point, urges. I tried something different this time and, instead of going home, I caught up with my dad and spent the day there. He had work so I brought my guitar & laptop to make some music. The urges were strong but I managed to keep myself occupied & focused on other things until the urges faded.
Still clean, not even a peek. It's Day 3 today.
I had a tricky day today as I had some drinks with some friends the previous evening. Not enough to write myself off but enough to feel the usual fatigue, hangover and, more to the point, urges. I tried something different this time and, instead of going home, I caught up with my dad and spent the day there. He had work so I brought my guitar & laptop to make some music. The urges were strong but I managed to keep myself occupied & focused on other things until the urges faded.
Still clean, not even a peek. It's Day 3 today.
Wow, awesome, brother! I like the distraction you did with going to your dad's, and making music instead. I like how you were aware of when the urges faded on their own (as they always will, invariably).
Yes, if you think about it, every time after a lapse that very next moment, we are literally non-users. We have quit porn (at least for that moment). That's all we have, this now present moment. Live in that, explore that, celebrate that, and be compassionate toward yourself concerning anything else.
It may seem to some like a cheap excuse or even licence to act out, but that's not what we're looking for. We're simply projecting ourselves out of the self-made cage of addiction (which is in a sense illusory, anyway), into the now and present moment of freedom. At that point, what is true and what is illusory?
This is my approach now, brother. I've spent enough years fighting this thing, even when 'not-fighting'. So now, I'm going deeper, lol... Deeper where beliefs are, where concepts are, where we can grab hold of potentiality and bring it into the now. Where we get to say (and not our addiction), "No! This is what is true, not that...!"
Changing things on this fundamental cellular level makes other more surface-level changes moot.
Yes, if you think about it, every time after a lapse that very next moment, we are literally non-users. We have quit porn (at least for that moment). That's all we have, this now present moment. Live in that, explore that, celebrate that, and be compassionate toward yourself concerning anything else.
It may seem to some like a cheap excuse or even licence to act out, but that's not what we're looking for. We're simply projecting ourselves out of the self-made cage of addiction (which is in a sense illusory, anyway), into the now and present moment of freedom. At that point, what is true and what is illusory?
This is my approach now, brother. I've spent enough years fighting this thing, even when 'not-fighting'. So now, I'm going deeper, lol... Deeper where beliefs are, where concepts are, where we can grab hold of potentiality and bring it into the now. Where we get to say (and not our addiction), "No! This is what is true, not that...!"
Changing things on this fundamental cellular level makes other more surface-level changes moot.