Escape Velocity - Orbiters Journal

ShadeTrenicin

Well-Known Member
Hey Orbiter,

Sorry to hear about your lapse. But I commend your reflection on it.

Personally dealing with exhaustion / substance use is something I struggle with as well. And, I don't know about you but I'm coming more and more to the conclusion that every time we allow ourselves the usage, we allow ourself to let go. And while in normal circumstances this would be manageable, for us this is very contradictive. Because on the PMO side there is a very, very strict zero-tolerance policy. For a reason of course. But we do allow ourselves leanience in other parts of our life, while in fact the same decision making is involved.So while I'm not a black and white person at all. I am coming to understand more and more to apply a zero tolerance on more than one part of my life. Simply because it makes saying no easier for my brain. It's like you're reducing the number of items on the menu of a restaurant. Basically Ialways say: the less items on a menu, the easier it is for the customer to choose and the better a kitchen is to maintain a high quality. Having said that I really like that you've put alcohol of the table until checkpoint 6. But, I do wonder (and mostly because it directly applies to me as well) isn't 1 month a little short? Because you are pretty much the same age as me, have been addicted to P for a long time, have issues of negative self talk for a long while like me.. Isn't 1 month to short, as in; woulnd't the rewiring of our brains take longer than 1 month?

Now, this is of course your thread and I've been musing in it, so back to you.

Regarding the self-talk it sounds like ruminating. It's like you said; you indulde and create internel argument. And snapping out of it is damn difficult. Perhaps a similar approach as to PMO can be implied indeed as you mention; recognize, breathe and let them go as they serve you no purpose.

Once again you've been very insightful over your own relapses Orbiter. Your insights have helped me gain insight into myself as well

Take care and stay strong.
 

Phineas 808

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Perhaps an issue might have been that I 'over indulged' in these thoughts by having an internal argument with them when instead I should have merely acknowledged, breathes & dismissed them. Would be interested in anyones thoughts or advice in this regard.

Well done, Orbiter! At first, your efforts to breathe through with an awareness of your physiological responses to the 'triggers' worked- enough to take you for half the day.

I think you make an accurate observation here, that- if I may say- you were too much in your head. You gave the 'beast-brain' too much credibility, and argued with him...

Learning the stark contrast, which is at root of our ambivalence toward acting out, between the 'higher-brain' that wants to do good, and succeed, versus the 'lower-brain' that simply wants its fix. Learning what is called AVRT is important here. AVRT = Addictive Voice Recognition Technique. The AV = Addictive Voice is anything that suggests the future or continued use of pornography, or any behavior in support of that.

Recognizing this voice is a secret weapon in coming into awareness, dismissing the thoughts/urges by deeply breathing through them.

All the other issues you raised as pertains to your plan and strategy are definitely important- just know that your lower brain and it's AV can only suggest (or demand) future use, but that's all it can do. It seems in the moment like life-or-death, but it will invariably subside. Think of your urges like a bell-curve, they will peak- but then subside. The only thing you need to do is not respond to them, either in fighting or feeding them. The urges may repeat (like waves in an ocean), just repeat the non-response, and you will by repetition starve these neural pathways, and change your habit. Look up Urge Surfing, and Mindfulness in regards to this.

Proud of you for the awesome changes and fresh approach!
 

Escapeandnevercomeback

Respected Member
Well done, Orbiter! At first, your efforts to breathe through with an awareness of your physiological responses to the 'triggers' worked- enough to take you for half the day.

I think you make an accurate observation here, that- if I may say- you were too much in your head. You gave the 'beast-brain' too much credibility, and argued with him...

Learning the stark contrast, which is at root of our ambivalence toward acting out, between the 'higher-brain' that wants to do good, and succeed, versus the 'lower-brain' that simply wants its fix. Learning what is called AVRT is important here. AVRT = Addictive Voice Recognition Technique. The AV = Addictive Voice is anything that suggests the future or continued use of pornography, or any behavior in support of that.

Recognizing this voice is a secret weapon in coming into awareness, dismissing the thoughts/urges by deeply breathing through them.

All the other issues you raised as pertains to your plan and strategy are definitely important- just know that your lower brain and it's AV can only suggest (or demand) future use, but that's all it can do. It seems in the moment like life-or-death, but it will invariably subside. Think of your urges like a bell-curve, they will peak- but then subside. The only thing you need to do is not respond to them, either in fighting or feeding them. The urges may repeat (like waves in an ocean), just repeat the non-response, and you will by repetition starve these neural pathways, and change your habit. Look up Urge Surfing, and Mindfulness in regards to this.

Proud of you for the awesome changes and fresh approach!
Yes, I agree that making the difference between "you" and "addicted brain" is an important step. But what happens to me is that I know this but I end up wanting the pleasure too and I agree with "it" in the end. I've had a hard time to actually avoid acting on the craving for pleasure. What I mean is that I understand the addicted brain wants its fix, but I want it too (the pleasure). That's the problem. Basically, inside of me there are two "me" and both end up agreeing to watch porn.
 

Phineas 808

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Staff member
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Yeah, I know what you mean, Escape. But even my most duplicitious self, even if I live the darkest version of myself, and 'enjoy it'- there's still something in me that says, "This is not who you really are. You were made for more than this. You're better than this."

We weren't created to live self-indulgent lives that reduce us to slaves of our passions, driven by lusts and cravings. That makes us no different than animals. Rather, there's a 'higher-calling', something that harmonizes with reason, selfless love, and purposes that- though greater than ourselves- give us peace and joy beyond what the mere cravings of the flesh can provide.

While my best approaches are outside of self-moralizing, I know that guiding and defining my 'why' has to be higher-reason and morality, even spirituality. These are things that people of all faiths and even non-faith can agree with and appreciate.
 

Escapeandnevercomeback

Respected Member
Yeah, I know what you mean, Escape. But even my most duplicitious self, even if I live the darkest version of myself, and 'enjoy it'- there's still something in me that says, "This is not who you really are. You were made for more than this. You're better than this."

We weren't created to live self-indulgent lives that reduce us to slaves of our passions, driven by lusts and cravings. That makes us no different than animals. Rather, there's a 'higher-calling', something that harmonizes with reason, selfless love, and purposes that- though greater than ourselves- give us peace and joy beyond what the mere cravings of the flesh can provide.

While my best approaches are outside of self-moralizing, I know that guiding and defining my 'why' has to be higher-reason and morality, even spirituality. These are things that people of all faiths and even non-faith can agree with and appreciate.
(y)
 

Orbiter

Well-Known Member
Shade - In regards to the substance use...honestly, when I think about it you're probably right. One month simply isn't enough.

My idea was that I could revisit it a few weeks into the future where I perhaps had a better grip on life and some momentum in recovery, but it's going to take longer than that. I think there's a part of me that is holding on because I just don't want to let go.

The point you make about similarities of giving in to pornography and giving in to substance abuse really struck me. Particularly that when we do either, we're making the choice to 'let go'. I need to explore this further.

I was particularly struck that you used the word 'ruminating' to describe the self talk. There have been many times in the past friends & loved ones have described my behaviour in this particular word. My psychologist has also alluded to this tendency of mine as well. This is something I also need to explore further but in regards to managing urges, though it may seem obvious now what I should have done.


Phineas - I think you're spot on in this case. There are all manner of preventative steps I could've taken (and will in future) but when I started slipping into my own brain and indulging in these "should I, shouldn't I" conversations with my addiction, I had probably already made the decision to PMO there and then.

I recognised the urge, breathed through it but didn't dismiss it and because of that, it just kept circling around in my head. This is something I can change next time.

The higher self/lower self battle is one that always comes up when an urge hits. The more honest i'm being with myself and this forum, the more i realise that the idea of 'auto-pilot' is in itself somewhat of a fallacy.

To describe a lapse in this "One moment I was going about my day innocently minding my own business and then BAM! 3 day binge. Go figure hey guys?!!" sort of manner is at it's heart disempowering and probably just another addict brain lie. Digging deep enough I think there's ALWAYS some sort of internal rationalisation that occurs before the decision to PMO.

I will take some time today to do some further research into AVRT.

Very valuable insights here. Thank you both!
 

Escapeandnevercomeback

Respected Member
Orbiter, I know exactly what you mean. It goes like this for me too: I could be completely determined to quit, in my head there is no idea about a relapse then the next minute "Some porn would be awesome, man! The urges signal a great edging session!" And then I struggle to resist. The urges can go on all day, it's not fun, but for some reason they seem not to exist too much in the evening. Maybe I should make my plan around this: How I can get to the evening without doing anything stupid.
 

Orbiter

Well-Known Member
I think we can all relate to that feeling Escape! Perhaps some of the ideas discussed recently may be of help to us both next time around? That is of course if there is one.

Stay strong Escape, you can do this!
 

Orbiter

Well-Known Member
I'm not going to make a huge journal entry as it's been a busy day, it's getting late and I should probably be winding down instead of being up on the computer any longer than I have to. I did not get the time today but I plan to devote my next batch of free time to properly researching AVRT and some resources on ruminating thoughts. It is Day 2 today.

Wishing you all well
 

Phineas 808

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
I recognised the urge, breathed through it but didn't dismiss it and because of that, it just kept circling around in my head. This is something I can change next time.

To say, 'dismiss' is tricky... It almost sounds like an active thing, "I banish thee from my head!" But I when we think of dismissing urges, I think a more non-responsive ignoring is a better description. The annoying person that you see at the store, but go the other way... Or the telemarketer that you simply don't respond to, even to cuss them out, you just let the phone ring until eventually (and invariably) they will quit.

The higher self/lower self battle is one that always comes up when an urge hits. The more honest i'm being with myself and this forum, the more i realise that the idea of 'auto-pilot' is in itself somewhat of a fallacy.

To describe a lapse in this "One moment I was going about my day innocently minding my own business and then BAM! 3 day binge. Go figure hey guys?!!" sort of manner is at it's heart disempowering and probably just another addict brain lie. Digging deep enough I think there's ALWAYS some sort of internal rationalisation that occurs before the decision to PMO.

As is the case with so many things, I think both situations are true. We decide earlier on (which we can still always veto), and there's such a thing as mindlessness or autopilot where our habits just 'take over'.

I share a biblical text, simply because it gives us a little insight into this:

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. - Romans 8:5.

Attention reveals intention, like what we think about may reveal what we're already choosing. Even if we're arguing against it in our mind, we may be wrestling with it because we've decided already.

But, sometimes we're cued (triggered) and thoughts arise..., this may be just the beast-brain suggesting use as a result, either in the form of urges and/or thoughts. Now for someone mindless, they will simply follow through with the next phase of their habit/ritual. So, perhaps we can say 'further thoughts' or conversations with ourself regarding using may reveal intent at that time...

We both know from experience that it's not entirely a thing of will-power, and that's why I make a big deal about changing my habits that surround 'the habit' so I can hack into my own behavior. We may also say that changing our surrounding habits support our overall intentions toward self-transformation.
 

Orbiter

Well-Known Member
Okay I think I get what you mean here. In the action of mentally "banishing" our urges, we are still responding too much. We're still engaging with them in a way that allows them to occupy our thoughts and convince us. The 'let the phone ring' analogy has come up more than once and I have applied this with some success at times in the past. I'll endeavor to apply this more consistently next time.

Thank you for the insightful observation Phineas. It's given me plenty to think about.


Apart from some exercise & meditation, today so far has almost entirely been taken up with work & work-related matters. Not my ideal way to spend so much of a day but I have to remember reality does not always match expectations and I have to adapt where I can. In regards to the discussion on rumination, I found this fantastic video from a Youtube resource I have shared before in my old journal -


It's a lot for me to fully wrap my head around and not all of it can be related to urges & addiction, but it is an interesting insight into the typical nature of negative rumination and several additional strategies that may be useful in future. This is an area I will continue to focus on.

Apart from that. I have to be honest that I feel like I am in the typical post-lapse slump, in that some of the excitement & drive that I felt previous to the other day has not quite returned.

Once again I need to remind myself that this is only a feeling, another rumination of sorts, and perhaps I need to revisit my original post and refocus myself mentally back to the plan. It is Day 3 today

Wishing you all well
 

Escapeandnevercomeback

Respected Member
To say, 'dismiss' is tricky... It almost sounds like an active thing, "I banish thee from my head!" But I when we think of dismissing urges, I think a more non-responsive ignoring is a better description. The annoying person that you see at the store, but go the other way... Or the telemarketer that you simply don't respond to, even to cuss them out, you just let the phone ring until eventually (and invariably) they will quit.
This is interesting, no doubt. I understand the idea. I think I used to attempt something similar last year when my tactic was to focus on something else and not give attention to the flashbacks and fantasies.
 

Phineas 808

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Once again I need to remind myself that this is only a feeling, another rumination of sorts, and perhaps I need to revisit my original post and refocus myself mentally back to the plan. It is Day 3 today

This is the challenge, and if you think about it, all a part of what may be a post-laspe ritual (the regret/promise phase)... Disrupt this and you will change your habit.

Ironically it may be good that it's only been a few days, as this is harder to deal with if one is days out- as you know from experience. What would I say to myself? "Okay, so I lapsed, but nothing has changed- I am even more committed and driven to change my life! I will get up and go again. I will identify any weakness in my plan, refine it, and recommit!"

The excitement need not abate, but can still be fueled. Standing with you, brother!
 

ShadeTrenicin

Well-Known Member
Hey orbiter, you're doing great work with looking into AVRT and The rumination video.

The post-lapse slump at days 2-6 are a mess (same boat here) but just a couple more days and you'll be better. It's like you said in your post. It's knowing that it's part of the plan (acceptance) and then you can refocus on the goal. This will help you get to your next milestone.

Keep going strong my friend
 

Orbiter

Well-Known Member
Phineas - Good observation & advice! Apart from no alcohol and slightly more use of the internet, my routine and my actions have not changed from what they were before. I will adjust my strategy where need it, keep going and make sure to not overthink it or over-indulge in those typical negative, defeatist thought patterns.

Shade - It's not a great feeling for sure and I think it's perfectly okay to admit that to ourselves. In trying to articulate the difference between rumination and...well...simply pondering or thinking something through (which is also important) i'm beginning to think the difference lies in the purpose or potential outcome. "What answer or outcome do I expect to get from this?", "How does dwelling on this feeling serve me?", "What am I trying to do here?". If the answer is nothing or a thinly-veiled excuse to 'let go' and give in again, then it's probably rumination or the addict voice disguised as our own. I suppose this also somewhat ties in with AVRT in that we're recognising & separating the voice, feelings & urges of the lower brain/inner addict from our own.

All that aside, i'm sure we'll be back on track soon. Keep going strong too!

As for how today has gone? Rather uneventfully to be honest. There were work-related stresses throughout the day. I took this as an opportunity to step back and analyze the the emotions as they came through, being observant of how I was handling these feelings and when I was ruminating or catastrophising in response to certain issues that presented themselves. It was an interesting exercise in self-reflection and I felt like I got a lot out of it. It is Day 4 today.

Wishing you all well
 

Orbiter

Well-Known Member
Nothing eventful to report today. I've been busy & out of the apartment most of the day so not too much recovery work but no urges, temptations or problems either. Perhaps in this case, no news is good news. Today is Day 5

Wishing you all well today
 

Orbiter

Well-Known Member
Thanks Shade & Particularly,

Unfortunately what I hoped would be Day 6 is now Day 0. I got back home from work after finishing for the week. It was somewhat of a stressful day with some work worries on my mind and I was definitely very tired walking through the door i.e all the usual stuff. I got onto my computer almost immediately and 'let go' by which I mean did the usual escalation of peeking to some pictures to watching some short clips. I felt almost no arousal at all from what I saw and, after some internal wrestling, closed the browser without going further.

I did not PMO, I did not MO or really even binge watch but I would be lying to all of you and, worst of all, to myself if I was to say this wasn't a lapse and a reset. So there it is.

There is still clearly more work for me to do. For this evening I am going to close the computer and have an early nights sleep. I'll regroup & reflect further tomorrow.
 

ShadeTrenicin

Well-Known Member
Hey, Orbiter.

I think it's great that you got control of the situation and stopped. This is a pretty significant action imo. Because it shows awareness of what is going on and how you really feel. It means that, although you went on autopilot to watch P, you've grown to see the impact it has on you.

I also really like how strict you ere with the counter.

Although you lapsed. This is a lapse that truly shows growth.


Have an amazing day
 
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