Crawling from the wreckage

Escapeandnevercomeback

Respected Member
Day 96 (no PMO), day 10 (no MO).

Some stress-related urges to MO today, but I'm saying no. It's troubling how something negative (stress, anxiety) triggers thoughts of something positive (sex). However, the urges are not really sexual; it's the deep down urge to PMO talking. Find some pictures of naked girls and fap, it will make you feel better, c'mon, you know they want you to! I like to think that my porn addiction never warped my attitudes and thoughts towards real women, but clearly there's something really unpleasant branded on my brain after years of porn. I sometimes feel like even talking to an attractive woman is out of bounds at the moment until I can really recover from the porn addiction.
Amazing progress, man!
 

TryingHarder

Well-Known Member
Day 97 (no PMO), day 11 (no MO).

Lately I've been struggling with something that isn't related to the porn addiction. I've developed crushes on some women at work that have turned into obsessions. What started out as finding someone attractive eventually turned into thinking about them all the time. Crushes are usually based on a little bit of reality and a lot of wishful thinking; obsessions are nothing but wishful thinking and unhealthy thoughts. In the real world, I haven't done anything wrong or inappropriate with these women, but began to panic that I would cross a line with bad results. So I've been reading some articles and doing what I can to crush the crushes. Basically, having little or no contact with them and accepting the reality that nothing will ever happen between us.

All of this has led to a good deal of anxiety and feeling oh god, I've done something terribly wrong. After some deep reflection, I realize that what's really happened is that I've made a terrible mistake. By letting my thoughts become obsessive and unhealthy, and - bigger picture - not stopping the porn addiction many years ago. I don't know of a worse feeling than knowing you made a gigantic mistake and feeling like there's nothing you can do about it because the damage has been done. Instead of saving your house, it's now a pile of rubble. Yes, I can build a new house, but what a shame. Yes, I know to err is human, but all of this has left me feeling confused and low.

Life can only be understood backwards, but must be lived forwards. 😕
 

GrateClips

Active Member
Day 97 (no PMO), day 11 (no MO).

Lately I've been struggling with something that isn't related to the porn addiction. I've developed crushes on some women at work that have turned into obsessions. What started out as finding someone attractive eventually turned into thinking about them all the time. Crushes are usually based on a little bit of reality and a lot of wishful thinking; obsessions are nothing but wishful thinking and unhealthy thoughts. In the real world, I haven't done anything wrong or inappropriate with these women, but began to panic that I would cross a line with bad results. So I've been reading some articles and doing what I can to crush the crushes. Basically, having little or no contact with them and accepting the reality that nothing will ever happen between us.

All of this has led to a good deal of anxiety and feeling oh god, I've done something terribly wrong. After some deep reflection, I realize that what's really happened is that I've made a terrible mistake. By letting my thoughts become obsessive and unhealthy, and - bigger picture - not stopping the porn addiction many years ago. I don't know of a worse feeling than knowing you made a gigantic mistake and feeling like there's nothing you can do about it because the damage has been done. Instead of saving your house, it's now a pile of rubble. Yes, I can build a new house, but what a shame. Yes, I know to err is human, but all of this has left me feeling confused and low.

Life can only be understood backwards, but must be lived forwards. 😕

Have you heard of the term "limerence"? because that's what this sounds like.

With limerence the way to tackle it is to address and find out why you have this unhealthy crush. If often traces back to something that you are missing or longing for and in this co-worker she becomes this almost perfect being. In reality she's and often once the crush fades we are left kind of dazed in the reality of why we even felt so strongly about this person. The good news is these eventually should fade but can take a while.

Sounds like you are doing the very best thing which is reducing contact and accepting reality.

Work is such a tricky place when it comes to attachment. Men develop crushes on women, and women develop crushes on men. It is I'm fairly certain the primary breeding ground for extra marital affairs. In fact I went back to an earlier part of your journal where you talked about having drinks with co-workers and really felt a strong desire that day... happy hours and after work are recipes for office based attractions galore.

At my workplace there is a woman younger than me by 15 years give or take a few years. She is by all accounts a great person - kind hearted, and very attractive, and single. But even if I was single I'm not really sure we'd ever be a lasting couple - she comes from a culture that I'm fairly certain would never accept me because I'm not of that culture. I've definitely caught her looking at me a few times over the past year. While this is kind of flattering to me as a middle aged guy, its also not good because well, she's someone whom its very easy to develop a crush on, and I'm married with a family. Its easy to slip into a fantasy of what it would be like to be with her. Basically I totally understand where you are coming from.

WHat i've learned and believe is not to shame or berate myself for feeling this way. I am after all, a man, and she's a good woman - people are biologically wired to feel attraction. What I do work on is breaking the fantasies as best as I can, and focusing on myself. My reboot, my family, healing the marriage since I disclosed my porn and sex addiction. Like you said, focus on one self and the reality. Over time the feelings will fade.

Don't berate yourself for the past. I too could berate myself for porn, for lost opportunities with relationships, for not being the best person I could be but the reality is it's simply impossible to have this kind of knowledge and wisdom when you are young. You have to live life and go through it to get the wisdom.

We're human after all.
 

TryingHarder

Well-Known Member
Yes, I have read about limerence in some articles. Wikipedia definition: an involuntary potentially inspiring state of adoration and attachment to someone, involving and obsessive thoughts, feelings and behaviors from euphoria to despair, contingent on perceived emotional reciprocation. So why do I suffer from limerence?

I think all of this falls under the category of loneliness and wanting to be in a relationship, but being single for many years. These women are certainly not "perfect beings" but simply really cute, smart, funny women that I find attractive, and wouldn't it be nice if they felt the same way? But given that a) I'm probably 20 years older than they are, and b) I have received zero indication that they feel the same way about me, I have to accept reality.

And yes, as you say - we're human, and we're men. How could I not find these women so attractive? I have to remind myself that I have done nothing wrong - after a couple of attempts to invite these women to socialize after work (as part of a group) a couple of times and not receiving an answer, I told myself "don't push it". But then the limerence happened... Now I just concentrate on keeping my distance.

It occurs to me that both porn and this romantic wishful thinking are illusions that I foolishly chose to indulge in. Time to give my head a shake and see clearly.
 

Blondie

Respected Member
Hey Tryingharder, I read this and thought I had to write something.

Reading this made my smile, not because of your situation, but because I know what you mean and understand completely.

I think this is actually a good thing for you, and here is why. One of the biggest things I noticed when I got off porn for a year and a half, was how often I crushed on all the women around me. Now I had always done this, but it was often purely sexual (go figure), but after getting off porn for a good while, I noticed how much this all changed. Sure, I still noticed their bodies and how beautiful they were, but no, now it was different, I liked them for them, and their looks were just the icing on the cake. This was completely different compared to the man who was consuming porn all the time. However, I found this change to be a good thing, even though yes, I was still in a relationship.

When viewing porn, I had lost my ability to have a ridiculous crush, because I was only thinking about sex, or at least, mostly.

As long as I can remember, I've been this way, loving many women at the same time, yes even as a little kid. And to return to that innocent feeling, was a good thing for me because it showed me I was healing from the nonsense that is porn. Women aren't objects, and to get to that feeling again in my life, damn I'll never forget that experience, ever! :cool:

Sure, you say you're alone, okay, but at the same time, I would strongly recommend that you thank the gods for giving you the beauty of a crush again. Just sit there and relax knowing that you're healing and that women, real women are becoming attractive again.

Keep working on yourself and maybe you'll get one of those beauties, maybe she'll be closer to your age, or maybe not. But either way, for now, don't do anything, just sit in the warmth and grace that only real women can give, and smile knowing that you're getting better.

Real women can save our souls...

Best
 
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TryingHarder

Well-Known Member
Thanks for sharing those thoughts, Blondie. I have to say, through most of my porn addiction, real women remained attractive to me, but no relationships happened (or when they did, they were unsatisfying or disastrous, for reasons I won't get into).

As I mentioned earlier, maybe porn and these crushes occupy the same space in my troubled mind: illusions that just don't jive with reality and become unhealthy. Porn is bullshit, and falling for women 20 years younger than me probably won't end well. Like I say, I've certainly made some serious mistakes.

But, I agree with you: I'm healing, and with things this complicated, I suppose I'm destined for a good deal of confusion, guilt, and self-examination.
 

Simon2

Well-Known Member
When you're ready, maybe you should try to meet some women in an appropriate way? I would steer clear of crushes at work that are much younger than you but if you can handle it without being triggered and relapsing, maybe you can join an online dating website? I found my wife that way years ago... I think it's important to replace the porn fantasy with a real, healthy, outlet when possible. Meeting real women is good, and being lonely is not a great place to be. You never know what could happen, right?

My only advice regarding online dating is to not take it too seriously with anyone (don't imagine them to be THE one when you haven't even met) until you've had a few innocent dates to actually get to know them a bit.
 

Blondie

Respected Member
I've never been into the whole online dating thing, but I agree, it's probably worth a shot, and obviously it works for many people!

Loneliness is no fun, and I can attest that being with a real woman has really helped me through all of this.

I agree with Simon, I would definitely not take it too seriously, but just go on some dates and see what happens. It sure as hell is better than sitting alone in your house on the weekend. I've been there, and that's no fun.

It goes without saying, you should do this when you think it's the right time. However, I think it would be very easy to fall into the trap of telling yourself that it would be best to wait for some undefined "perfect" time down the road. From my experience, a perfect time doesn't really exist.

Just my two cents.

Best
 

GrateClips

Active Member
Yes, I have read about limerence in some articles. Wikipedia definition: an involuntary potentially inspiring state of adoration and attachment to someone, involving and obsessive thoughts, feelings and behaviors from euphoria to despair, contingent on perceived emotional reciprocation. So why do I suffer from limerence?

I think all of this falls under the category of loneliness and wanting to be in a relationship, but being single for many years. These women are certainly not "perfect beings" but simply really cute, smart, funny women that I find attractive, and wouldn't it be nice if they felt the same way? But given that a) I'm probably 20 years older than they are, and b) I have received zero indication that they feel the same way about me, I have to accept reality.

And yes, as you say - we're human, and we're men. How could I not find these women so attractive? I have to remind myself that I have done nothing wrong - after a couple of attempts to invite these women to socialize after work (as part of a group) a couple of times and not receiving an answer, I told myself "don't push it". But then the limerence happened... Now I just concentrate on keeping my distance.

It occurs to me that both porn and this romantic wishful thinking are illusions that I foolishly chose to indulge in. Time to give my head a shake and see clearly.

I think its not just loneliness but also people who are prone to limerences or deep crushes may have issues with attachment, and childhood or early years where love was not provided by parents. I.e. pretty much the set ups for porn/sex addiction.

When we see a new woman/person but know little to nothing of them they are perfect. THey fill every void and desire and personality and hobby that we want them to have. Essentially perfect. If one were to actually get on a date and then start a relationship this feeling can grow even more and that's the blissful early months of a new relationship. Where the world around us doesn't matter, no other social activities matter except time with the new girl. Nothing really bothers us.
After 12-18 months that will fade though and we no longer see them as perfect. They are after all just regular people with good and bad parts.

You are absolutely right as far as not pushing it to socialize with work women if they don't respond. That's a nice way from them of saying no thanks. And you did *nothing* wrong in having a fantasy of a co-worker. In fact you are doing the very best thing possible which is processing the fantasy for what it is, reflecting on it, and discussing it. Essentially getting therapy/counseling.

Like you and many others though, work is a easy to place to meet women, talk to them, and actually get to know each other. The problem is if something blows up or goes badly well that just blows up in your face many times over.

I have not been on the dating scene for many many years now but if I ever were to have to I would probably imagine I would let any work place potential romance come to me, i.e. let it develop, and not be the one chasing.

And as Blondie said its probably better to look in other places. I have heard many people complain of online dating but I honestly think it has a lot of advantages over dating in the old days. Anyone care to remember things like having a pen for their number? Getting their actual home number (so much easier nowadays with cells and texting i imagine). Also it frees people up from going to places like bars and what not to meet people.
 

TryingHarder

Well-Known Member
@Blondie, @SimonM, @GrateClips thanks for your thoughtful comments. Yes, in time I will certainly want to start dating again and most likely use a dating website. I have done that in the past (in fact, that's how I met my wife, now my ex-wife). With meeting people that way, at least you know they are looking to be with someone, rather than wondering if a crush even knows you're alive. :LOL: As far as the timing, I think I would definitely want to be at least 6 months clean of the porn addiction. Maybe a year would be best. But you gentlemen are right, there is no "perfect" time, but allowing myself time to reboot and recover from porn addiction certainly seems like the smart thing to do.

Today at the office, one of my crushes was working in the same building as me. Proud to say I didn't invent any excuses to walk over to where she was working to start a conversation and we didn't say a word to each other. 🙃

Oh, and Day 98 (no PMO), day 12 (no MO).
 

GrateClips

Active Member
@Blondie, @SimonM, @GrateClips thanks for your thoughtful comments. Yes, in time I will certainly want to start dating again and most likely use a dating website. I have done that in the past (in fact, that's how I met my wife, now my ex-wife). With meeting people that way, at least you know they are looking to be with someone, rather than wondering if a crush even knows you're alive. :LOL: As far as the timing, I think I would definitely want to be at least 6 months clean of the porn addiction. Maybe a year would be best. But you gentlemen are right, there is no "perfect" time, but allowing myself time to reboot and recover from porn addiction certainly seems like the smart thing to do.

Today at the office, one of my crushes was working in the same building as me. Proud to say I didn't invent any excuses to walk over to where she was working to start a conversation and we didn't say a word to each other. 🙃

Oh, and Day 98 (no PMO), day 12 (no MO).
Oh yes the old “accidental” bumping into the work crush. I definitely did that a couple years back and instead of getting over her it ended up making her open up to me and instead increased her contact with me. That was very bad on my part.

totally agree only date once you are right. If your not right a woman will sniff that out quickly.

I personally think you are doing amazing .
 

GBS

Respected Member
You will SO know when the time is right to start dating. 98 days you’ve been clean. It’s amazing. Keep up the no MO and see how amazing you feel at 30 days of that. That’s the feeling I like even if it is really hard to cope with. I think women will notice your aura and you will charm the birds out of the trees.
 
Congratulations on the 100 days TryingHarder!

Just like you said to me, if you can make it 100 days PMO free, then you can also make it 200 days. Best of luck!

PS. your profile pic is fantastic :)
 

TryingHarder

Well-Known Member
Day 102 (no PMO), day 16 (no MO).

Yikes. The urges have been hitting me hard for the past day. It's not so much the urge to MO, but to simply entertain porn-like sexual thoughts or think about my favourite adult models. Earlier, I likened this to a fire that has burned out, but there are still some embers glowing. This also feels like a weird negotiation: I have taken away porn from my brain, also denied it masturbation, and now my brain just wants me to throw it a bone and entertain some sexy fantasies. o_O
 

Blondie

Respected Member
Hey TryingHarder.

This still happens to me once in awhile, and it usually just comes out of nowhere.

Yes the brain doesn't like these changes you're making, so it likes to throw a porn bone to see if you'll play catch. I use to get scared by this, thinking maybe I was doing something wrong or whatever, but now I just smile, knowing that this is my addicted brain shouting out some of its last dying breaths!

You got this man, just smile!

download.jpeg
 

TryingHarder

Well-Known Member
Day 103 (no PMO), day 0 (no MO). :mad:

Damn it, I gave in. Angry with myself because it was a digital trigger - a photo that I stumbled across online that turned me on yesterday. So certainly not a PMO or porn substitute relapse, but I feel like I'm on thin ice all of a sudden. Time to reset the MO stop watch and strengthen my resolve for the next 30 days.
 

Blondie

Respected Member
Your honesty is to be commended TryingHarder.

Don't be too hard on yourself here - this happens to us all. Thus, all we can do is push through to the other side and keep on walking. You didn't screw up, so whatever you do, don't let your mind convince you that you have.

Best
 
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