Another story - probably the same as everyone else

GBS

Well-Known Member
156 no PMO and (just) 4 no MO.

Two things I read recently on other threads came to my memory again today. One was definitely @Blondie who said he never touched his dick anymore. Not at all. He’s well over 300 days sober and a long standing pillar of this community but that seems to be the goal. I am mikes from there or I think I am. Perhaps this only comes after many months and retraining the mind with the body. This is now my aim. Difference is he has sex with his lady. I don’t. I still think that as an ideal this is where I should head and get through the next frustration.

The second thing I read I can’t recall where (on RN) was someone saying they were many days sober (like 200 plus) and they truthfully (I believe him) said he wanted to test out wether he could watch porn for one night only. He could but then said he had two weeks or so of hell. He put the words in CAPITALS and said it was mind blowing how hard it was not to go back. Obvious conclusion - this is like heroin. All duly noted.
 

Gracie

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
As part of my husband and my working through this years ago, we no longer watch any media that has nudity. And that includes even brief nudity. It works well for us both.
 

joepanic

Well-Known Member
156 no PMO and (just) 4 no MO.

Two things I read recently on other threads came to my memory again today. One was definitely @Blondie who said he never touched his dick anymore. Not at all. He’s well over 300 days sober and a long standing pillar of this community but that seems to be the goal. I am mikes from there or I think I am. Perhaps this only comes after many months and retraining the mind with the body. This is now my aim. Difference is he has sex with his lady. I don’t. I still think that as an ideal this is where I should head and get through the next frustration.

The second thing I read I can’t recall where (on RN) was someone saying they were many days sober (like 200 plus) and they truthfully (I believe him) said he wanted to test out wether he could watch porn for one night only. He could but then said he had two weeks or so of hell. He put the words in CAPITALS and said it was mind blowing how hard it was not to go back. Obvious conclusion - this is like heroin. All duly noted.
Hey GBS Looks like your doing well keep it up

Not sure what to say about no fapping as well as who's decision it is. I recall back in school in the early 80s during "health" class it was mentioned that masturbation was a perfectly normal and healthy activity. I don't think that has changed at all. As for who's decision it is I subscribe to the "my body my choice" school of thought. If I were to tell my wife she can't masturbate than I might was well tell her she can't ever have an abortion. Now mo to porn that's a different matter. No good can come of that of course. You got married and if she is not interested or can not "put out" why should you go without?

Just my 2 cents for the day.

Post often it helps me it helps you
 

Blondie

Respected Member
Hey GBS, this whole masturbation thing is such a personal aspect of everyone's recovery, that it's hard to make any real black and white rules about it. What works for one guy might not for the other. And since you mentioned me in your post, I thought I'd make sure I clarified exactly what I meant.

Obviously as you mentioned, I don't touch myself anymore, and that's definitely a rule of mine - no buts about it. I also said that I would do this even if I wasn't in a relationship, which is also true, BUT, it's only theoretically true, because I've been in a relationship for eight years with constant sex, thus, I'm a little removed from a situation where I would have to think about it. However, I do know when I was single, I was refraining as long as possible, because I like the way it feels not getting off all the time. I even do this with my lady sometimes - refraining from orgasming during sex for a month or so, just to get my sexual energy soaring high again. I think as a whole, our society gets off way too much, and here a RN, that's decidedly true for us.

I personally feel more creative when not getting my rocks off 24/7. I mean just think about it, semen creates life, it's not exactly something that should be wasted and thrown away like a shity can of Hamm's beer. Therefore, make love to your wife, or, in your current predicament, make love to your life, and your wife just might notice the change in you.

Secondly, if not more importantly, for me personally, there is no difference between masturbating and porn - they're literally one in the same! @Ezel and I were just having the conversation the other day. I honestly can't remember the last time I masturbated without porn, it was probably early 20s if not younger. I don't even know if I could do it with only fantasy, even if I wanted to - which I don't. So in my eyes and from my perspective, not masturbating for 300 days means absolutely nothing, like I haven't even thought about it.

Porn = masturbation, no porn = no masturbation - end of story.

Last month I was out of town for a few weeks, and my contingency plan in case I was really tempted was to masturbate and only masturbate. Of course, I had no idea if that would actually work, but it was the plan nonetheless. But truth be told, I was anxious, I was anxious because I didn't know if could do one without the other. In my mind, they are completely intertwined.

So there you have it, my views on masturbation.

In short, no masturbation for your recovery is pretty damn helpful, and is always strongly recommended.

If you're having consistent sex, I see no reason at all to masturbate - it's just a waste of energy (obviously, just my opinion).

In your case, I would refrain as long as possible, if and only if that's what YOU really want. And whatever you do, don't be too hard on yourself if you happen to slip. Remember, we're here because of porn, not masturbation. But of course for me, that last sentence is an oxymoron :)

Best
 
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GBS

Well-Known Member
Thanks for your comments @joepanic and @Blondie. I really don’t wish to spark a row. Obviously this is all personal choice stuff. For me though, one of the stare yourself in the mirror revelations is that I knew masturbation was borderline encouraged (when I was younger - 70s actually) I think it would be fair to say I took that advice a bit too literally. It has been too many years of too much self satisfaction. I am not used to what I am going through but my brain changes are vast because I am not only breaking 45 year (off and on) porn habit, I am also breaking. 45 year masturbation habit and it feels like that one is the one that is harder and making more difference. As @Blondie said if you’re having regular sex, isn’t masturbation a bit of a waste of energy?

This debate need not rage on. I do think those of us who do want to carry on the MO thing, should obviously just do so, but do have a think if you’re doing that often.

Meanwhile (here in sunny Cornwall on holiday - deep south west of UK) my numbers are 159 no porn and 7 no MO.
 

Blondie

Respected Member
Yes, it's interesting @GBS that we all come to this from different perspectives and experiences.
I knew masturbation was borderline encouraged (when I was younger - 70s actually) I think it would be fair to say I took that advice a bit too literally.
It's funny, I was just thinking about this this morning - I don't think I ever masturbated until I was in my early 20s (long after I discovered porn). My "innocent" self, coming from a strict Christian background, had no idea that masturbating was even possible! 🤣

Anyways, we all come to this from different backgrounds, but yet we all agree, this has to stop!

Best to you GBS, and a have a good holiday.
 

GBS

Well-Known Member
160 no PMO and 8 no MO.

In good head space. This forum is great. I have learned so much about the size of this problem and about myself. I know my wife has suffered so much and still has a way to go, but I am so thrilled we’re doing this because it really IS life changing. I fully realise that I am changed and my wife is the same as she was, so she has to endure as I improve. That’s a tough ask but she’s so brilliant that it’s working.

Keep going.
 

GBS

Well-Known Member
161 days no pornography and 9 days no masturbation.

Very good connection with wife on holiday. Feels like nothing happened to change things. But all boundaries are still in place although she relaxed one a little bit when I was starting to make a point by saying sorry probably slightly too often.
 

GBS

Well-Known Member
162 days sober from porn. 10 days without masturbating. Getting tricky again. Very tricky. The urge to watch porn is very infrequent now. I wonder if that’s because the big urge is just to ejaculate. I realise others would say, just go do it…..no need to suffer. Think of something about your partner and off you go. Is that the life? Obviously if/when real sex comes back things will change and perhaps weekly sex will stop these 10 days without MO urges. I wrote earlier in this string that I wondered what 45 days + would feel like. Whether you eventually park it or it dominates one’s life. That’s the brain kicking in again. Have your dopamine, it’s not even shameful and it certainly won’t take long (!!!)….go on….do it. That’s going to be a big hard no from me. The challenge is being set by me for me.
 

Zeile

Member
Just read a punch of your posts. Thank you! I got into this on a whim, but the more I read and reflect, I realize that porn has caused MAJOR obstacles in my life and has numbed me to past opportunities. I cannot go back. I need to be better.
 
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GBS

Well-Known Member
Best whim ever @Zeile . It’s a test, this road in front of us. It’s simply up to us individually whether we can pass it, BUT we have each other providing essential support.
 

GBS

Well-Known Member
164 days no porn and 12 days no MO. I feel really good. I am a bore on the subject of masturbation and whether one should or not. Obviously it’s personal but I would say two things:

1. When one gives it a rest, one feels different- obviously some of that feeling is pent up whatever, but there’s something else. It’s an inner strength, I described it to my therapist as feeling brave and masculine. My therapist asked me if I felt empowered. Absolutely. This feeling goes away for a week if I MO. It’s back right now because I am approaching 2 weeks no MO - this is the feeling I just love. So I guess my point is that all us rebooters should try and get this feeling at the very least.

2. I suppose my second point is (something I said before) that if (a very big word by the way) one is having regular sex with one’s partner, then it seems to me that masturbation isn’t necessary. That doesn’t mean you can’t do it but why do it alone when you can do it together. I suppose actually one can masturbate but in the presence of your partner (and they can join in obviously). So I sort of reached the conclusion for me, that it seems that God wants me to have sex with my wife and otherwise not at all. I save myself for her, we’re both more satisfied as a result, so we want to do it more often, so we end up masturbating less and eventually not at all. In the first year of marriage I should think I didn’t masturbate much. Obvious point.
 

GBS

Well-Known Member
165 days and 13 no MO.

Nearly started edging in bath this morning then found my library of fantasies in my head was totally empty! I am not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing. The fantasies would all be with my wife but I couldn’t think of them. I guess what I mean is I can imagine her body but couldn’t do a scenario. It was really weird. Maybe this is all part of the clean up. Anyone able to advise?
 

GBS

Well-Known Member
166 days no PMO 14 days no MO.

I recall an earlier discussion on someone else’s thread bout whether fantasy masturbation is PMO just dressed differently. Articles address this but ones I read contradicted each other. My therapist has always said that fantasy is fine, indeed everyone does it. But we all know what’s healthy fantasy and what isn’t.

Yesterday I probably overstated it by saying I couldn’t dream up a scenario, more that my bank of fantasies (to give myself an erection) seemed inaccessible to me. Perhaps I shouldn’t be trying to do this and edging is cheating - I will see how I get on today. Big problem for me is wife is constantly around and wearing next to nothing and I won’t carry on for fear of triggering any readers here. We’re doing great but we’re going slow and sometimes the word slow is enough to make me want to run to the bathroom and edge. I shall try not to do that today. I think failure is probable. I will not MO thoug, that’s a certainty, and PMO doesn’t even need to be said.

Keep going ladies and gents. The devil that is porn is going to have a really tough fight with me. He doesn’t have a chance because I am in control (no complacency, mind).
 

GBS

Well-Known Member
Day 167 and 15 no MO.

I had a day yesterday of deep frustration. Even now (early morning) I want to run to the bathroom and dream up some fairly naughty fantasy about my wife and come very hard. I really want to do that. I won’t do it but I so want to. The discipline we require is very simple at one level - you just say no - but at another level it is torture and Very unfamiliar torture.

This is the God’s honest truth, I have not seen a naked woman in very close to 6 months. Not a picture, film, anything. Certainly my wife changes in a separate room. It’s a weird world when you’re 60 years old and this happens to you. So I just crave all sorts of things right now. I won’t list them because it will trigger me and you.

Having said that, there is serenity in my life. There is less tension, less pressure to lead. Indeed my wife is the only one who decides where we go intimacy wise. I don’t get to ask if we can move on. This is painful at one level because it is tricky to cope with an only small increase in intimacy which means we occasionally play “footsie” and I can rub her leg. I don’t know if she’s crying out for more inside or whether these increases are real risks for her. I can’t ask that because that’s putting on pressure and that’s one of my self awareness goals. And so the beautiful conundrum is that my wife controls my torture. Not saying she’s toying with me, but she sure as hell knows she has the best hand of cards ever.

I will discuss my conundrum with my therapist. She will probably say, when I told you that you needed great patience, this is one of those times.
 

GBS

Well-Known Member
168 no PMO 16 no MO.

A really weird feeling right now. Tempted to be surprised because of nearly 6 months sober, but am in a sort of flatline again. As I said before I am finding that I lived a life of fantasy even after I gave up porn. I didn’t MO much but I still thought about sex a great deal and tried (with success) to limit my fantasies to thoughts Of my wife. All good, right? Now 6 months on the fantasies are dying away. So not only do I have no sex, but now fewer things to edge to. So I am not edging much and am feeling like I don’t even really want to. The 16 days no MO seems irrelevant right now. I could be on day 2 for all the difference that makes. So I am sure this is all perfectly normal but it seems odd. Maybe when the no MO gets up to 30 + perhaps I will get the erections back. Right now though - very little desire and zero erections.

Can’t really discuss with wife who is otherwise being very supportive and relaxing into the new me as her husband. So I will live with the flatline as I have no option of course. It crossed my mind that I wondered if I did watch porn whether I would get a rock on, but obv I won’t do that experiment. I think it’s entirely possible that my edging hasn’t helped so maybe I should cut that out and just leave it alone. If anyone else is post 100 days and can offer advice I would be grateful.

Keep going whatever tests we get set.
 

Blondie

Respected Member
Hey GBS.

This is completely normal from my own experience. Yes edging is probably not helping the matter, but getting beyond 16 day of no O, your body is just taking a break, or a flatline, whatever you want to call it. I think this just goes back to what I've said before, that we have no idea what "normal" is for our baseline libido and these reboots often shock us because for the first time in our lives we get a glimpse of our true reality.

Don't worry, It will jump back to normal soon, although that normal might be different from what you think it should be.

This is a good thing.
 

GBS

Well-Known Member
169 days sober. 17 days no MO.

Interesting intel from therapist. For the avoidance of doubt this is information given to me and applies to me. It may not apply to you, so I am not dictating here but if it helps me understand stuff it may benefit others.

Edging and MO: better than porn, way better, but it prolongs the getting better phase. We addicts live or have lived in a dopamine world. Porn gave us spikes, big spikes, and we needed and wanted these spikes all the time. Eradicating this need for spikes is what the reboot is about. So we give up porn - we’ll done us. We still feel the need for release so we masturbate. Some times a lot, sometimes weekly, sometimes when we’re bursting after 3- days or so. Unless this masturbation is “mindful’, we’re still gripping onto something that sexualises. We may not return to porn but we’re not fully cleansed. Even masturbation to fantasy about our wives/partners is not fully dealing with the problem. It is a cognitive distortion that it’s ok. We are just indulging because we like the feeling, but to change fully we need to remove this habit. As my therapist said mindful masturbation is ok, anything else is not. Tough words to hear for me but I realise I was gripping on to something (no pun intended) and whilst I will be sorry for it to go, it has to. I don’t think I can do MM so it’s full hard core now. It may be frustrating but I am told the mind can do it. My mind can and mine will.

Sex drive: as my therapist said, a lot of men with our problem say or think they have a higher sex drive than our wives and partners. We think so because we appear to want sex more often. Actually we probably don’t have a much higher sex drives than our partners, we just think we do. It may be slightly higher but it may actually be lower. It’s all because we live in our sexualised mindset but we don’t know what our rebooted sex drive is until we’re fully clean. So get clean. The loss of libido that I currently have is totally normal because I am closing off my last neural pathways. So my sex drive and desire feels as though it’s plummeting. It is and it’s natural, and guess what…..even though it feels scary and weird it’s brilliant news and it means I am more of a man, not less.

What I just wrote may not apply to you so do what you need to do, but if you think this makes sense, then please consider. I feel great today. I also feel I will struggle to let this last bit go, but one quick cry and we move on. My wife, for the record, is thrilled by this.
 
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