Honoring the Ultimatum

That's like a cop saying a criminal doesn't have the right to a lawyer. Anybody who is trying to break an addiction needs help and support. You should ask for advice, that's why we're all here - to help each other with an addiction that is fought alone 99% of the time. Like Blondie says, two wrongs don't make a right. Shaming you to control you won't end well.

I know, I'm just some anonymous guy on a forum and we've never met and this is weird. Hope that you can continue your reboot, stay clean, and find what you're looking for.
Thanks T.H. Good analogy. She quotes me excepts from the betrayed spouse playbook written by the other betrayed spouses on her FB groups and that playbook seemingly reads, "You get in that bastard's ass, you stay in that bastard's ass, and don't EVER let up. Constantly remind him what a fuck up he is. Read off his list of crimes against you daily as if you were giving him a shopping list. If he defends himself at ALL, accuse him of gaslighting. Do not offer him ANY encouragement (aside from telling him how close you are to leaving him) because if you do he will revert back to porn usage immediately." Now, that is probably exaggerated to a degree, but it sure seems that way, and I've never heard of that particular tactic before. Nor do I agree with it's effectiveness. Yet she doesn't see what she does as bashing me, she sees it as "constructive criticism".
ON THE OTHER HAND... I'm not just doing this just for her, I'm doing it for me as well. But she wont believe that, wont even entertain the idea. In her mind I am only doing this to placate her so she will stay. I WANT TO BE FREE. I want to heal. And I will not revert back, I don't give a good got damn what anyone says about me.
Sorry, had to purge. And. Shawna is a good woman. She just actually believes the method prescribed by her web mates IS the correct route.
Thanks,
Persevere
 
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Hi. Steve. Disgusting piece of human refuse. Day 36.
Really, the temptation to revert back is rare and mild at this point. Even in spite of how much of a shitstorm the last 2 days has been, never actually thought, "damn, what's the point. If I'm gonna be treated like this, I might as well use."
I don't know if she is retaliating for the heinous way I treated her for 14 years, or if she actually believes her methods are the correct way to "help" a porn addict reform, or a bit of both. (see my response to Trying harder above) But it don't matter. I don't want this addiction, even if she does leave me. I don't want to be a disgusting piece of walking shizen. And if she does see this post and it offends her, well, nothing I can do about that. She has a support group and I'm sure she slams the hell outta me there. I'm not slamming her. I love her. But I need support too...
Thanks,
Persevere Brothers (and Sisters)
 

Phineas 808

Respected Member
Yes, do it for you. She will benefit (or not), but your health is important- despite the unfortunate harm it's caused another.

You need that privacy to air out your laundry without fear of being shamed or retaliated against- that's so toxic to folk trying to overcome things that are deeply rooted in shame to begin with.

Standing with you.
 

GBS

Well-Known Member
Hi @The Tunesmith - read all your posts. I am your age, my wife is older than yours but otherwise I relate to all you say. It’s tricky writing on here if every word is read by her, but actually that’s fine. This is the truth, so she is better off knowing. You are improving yourself and this warts and all approach doesn’t stop your progress. Your wife will have noticed your changes too, that’s obvious. It’s a tough gig for her admitting you’ve changed remember- she needs great strength to do that because she has to make herself vulnerable. But she will have noticed I guarantee that. These are tough days but you’re getting better and a year from now you’re going to look back on this and know that fighting off any urges while you dealt with the little arguments was your greatest achievement.

keep writing
 
Hi @The Tunesmith - read all your posts. I am your age, my wife is older than yours but otherwise I relate to all you say. It’s tricky writing on here if every word is read by her, but actually that’s fine. This is the truth, so she is better off knowing. You are improving yourself and this warts and all approach doesn’t stop your progress. Your wife will have noticed your changes too, that’s obvious. It’s a tough gig for her admitting you’ve changed remember- she needs great strength to do that because she has to make herself vulnerable. But she will have noticed I guarantee that. These are tough days but you’re getting better and a year from now you’re going to look back on this and know that fighting off any urges while you dealt with the little arguments was your greatest achievement.

keep writing
Thanks for the words of encouragement. And yes, she notices change, but in her thinking if I take five steps forward and then one step back (i.e say something or post something that is crossways of her agenda and/or belief system) that one step back nullifies the 5 steps forward. Perhaps that will change with time. We shall see. And. You used the term "gig". Are you a musician?
 
Steve. Recovering creep. Day 37. Shawna has been fighting a migraine for the past few days. She has them maybe a couple of times a year and they are debilitating. I been trying to take care of her as best I can but I am disabled and can't stand for long periods. I have a chair in the kitchen though and can still do a little cooking if I sit whenever possible. What's this got to do with porn addiction? Well, the way I treat her aside from the porn induced bullshit I drop(ed) on her in the bedroom, she actually considers me to be a very kind dude otherwise. She says that that aspect of my being is why she has stayed with me and refrained from hitting me in the back of the head with a skillet (LOL... or maybe not LOL. lol..) It's a positive that I can latch onto i suppose.
Persevere Brothers and Sisters
 

Phineas 808

Respected Member
...but in her thinking if I take five steps forward and then one step back (i.e say something or post something that is crossways of her agenda and/or belief system) that one step back nullifies the 5 steps forward.

And that's a problem..., and I don't wish to debate methodologies, because we all have varying approaches- but the disease-model of addiction (e.g. 'Twelve Step' programs) are like this- you can be 'sober' for 30 years, have the chip to prove it, but take a sip of whisky, and all your progress is lost. This is counter-productive, and not indicative of the truth.

If you're making progress, you're making progress. If someone did their unwanted behavior 1x after months of not doing it, whereas before they used to do it 1 - 2x a day, and for hours at a time, well, that's progress!

Seeing that lapses are all but a part of recovery, that kind of 'black-and-white' thinking, or an 'all-or-nothing' approach is unhelpful and works against us in our efforts.

I would research 'rational recovery' or 'smart recovery' or the like, or mindfulness and addiction- or how mindfulness helps, etc. We need alternatives in recovery and multiple disciplines to beat this thing.
 
Steve. Degenerate POS. Day 38.
A person on my wife's betrayed spouse support group advised my wife to "Leave him as worm food". I am a former mortician (so is my wife). Pretty well versed at phrases synonymous with death. Did this lady really advise my wife to take my life? Do I deserve the death penalty? I ain't killed anyone, and that is the only crime I am aware of that the death penalty applies to. Maybe these people on her support group feel I did kill her spiritually. Even so. Why would my wife share this information with me? If one of you guys said that about her (I know you wouldn't) I would report you immediately to the administrator(s) and do my damnedest to make sure she never saw the comment. Does a part of her agree that I should be executed? Sorry for the pity party but..... DAMN... Perhaps I deserve this constant character assassination I am undergoing at the moment. But when a person constantly hears over and over what a p.o.s. they are they begin to believe it to a degree. And I wonder at this point if perhaps I am but a shit-smear on the underpants of humanity. Maybe worm food is all I am good for.
 

Phineas 808

Respected Member
Did this lady really advise my wife to take my life? Do I deserve the death penalty? I ain't killed anyone, and that is the only crime I am aware of that the death penalty applies to. Maybe these people on her support group feel I did kill her spiritually. Even so. Why would my wife share this information with me?

Hi, Steve. I don't think she encouraged your wife to 'take your life', but to just leave you to your own fate- or leave you to be worm food, as if you were already dead...

Either way, it's a horrible thing to suggest to someone, about someone else's marriage. And your wife reporting that to you, what's that about? In what spirit or manner did she say it? Was she at all horrified at the prospect? Did that imagery bother her? I have to say- that this group to which she belongs ---> SUX! How can you so glibbly speak into someone else's marriage and encourage them to leave their spouse...! If you had actually slept with these women- or even one of them- that's another story, but... I know porn is a betrayal and deeply hurtful- I'm not minimizing that (and neither are you), but all things considered, you haven't killed anyone!

I'm so sorry for this, Steve. I don't know what to say other than that you are NOT a pos! You're a child of God, made in His image, and the apple of His eye.
 

guitar1968

Well-Known Member
Your journal has been a hard one for me to read. First, I think I'm a little like you in that I really pushed hard in my marriage for porn like sex for way too long. My wife finally had enough. It was a terrible thing to think my wife should act like the women I would see when watching porn. However, I was brought up on porn. That's how I learned about sex. I'm quite sure it has been horrible for my entire sex life.

But, reading how she is treating you makes no sense at all. I would be so bitter if my wife treated me the way you say yours is treating you. This is truly an addiction and a very hard one to overcome. How can this possibly be helpful?

The way you start off every one of your journal entries also seems rather harsh on yourself. Why are you always saying you are a degenerative piece of shit? Recovering creep? Is that helping you? If your wife is reading it does that make her feel better?

Maybe I just feel like you need to be a little nicer to yourself. You have an addiction. You are working very hard to overcome it and you are being very good to your wife as you have stated above. We can't change the past but we can certainly make our present and our future better for us and our spouses.

Hoping the best for you. I am also a musician and I also have peripheral neuropathy so standing for me is also difficult.

Good luck with all of this!
 
Appreciate your concern. I find my journal hard to read at times too. I call myself those things because I am those things. She calls me those things because I am those things. Actually she just reads off the list of my offenses and I call myself those things because of said list. But said list is true. I am a despicable piece of shit. If you guys saw the materials I created (I am pretty good at photoshop) you'd call me a despicable piece of shit too. I wake up most mornings wishing I had died in my sleep. Not looking for pity, that's just how it is. Every time I think of those images I created I wish I was dead. But don't fret, I won't off myself. Perhaps there is still a slim chance I can avoid hell, but if I off myself then that nullifies that chance. Sorry to be so blunt, but that's where I live right now. I don't know if Jesus even gives a damn about me anymore.
 
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Steve. Degenerate. Day 39. Still, the urge to look at porn is so minimal it doesn't much warrant consideration. Got much better things to do.
Persevere Brethren and Sistren.
 

guitar1968

Well-Known Member
Appreciate your concern. I find my journal hard to read at times too. I call myself those things because I am those things. She calls me those things because I am those things. Actually she just reads off the list of my offenses and I call myself those things because of said list. But said list is true. I am a despicable piece of shit. If you guys saw the materials I created (I am pretty good at photoshop) you'd call me a despicable piece of shit too. I wake up most mornings wishing I had died in my sleep. Not looking for pity, that's just how it is. Every time I think of those images I created I wish I was dead. But don't fret, I won't off myself. Perhaps there is still a slim chance I can avoid hell, but if I off myself then that nullifies that chance. Sorry to be so blunt, but that's where I live right now. I don't know if Jesus even gives a damn about me anymore.
I guess we all have to handle it how we feel best. Hopefully after a while you'll start feeling differently about yourself. I get it. I've done some really bad things myself. It's not always easy to forgive ourselves. For me, I had to forgive myself to even begin looking forward.

Good luck with your journey and your marriage.
 

Phineas 808

Respected Member
I don't know if Jesus even gives a damn about me anymore.

I think His scars are enough to answer this concern... We've all done horrible things we deeply regret, not to minimize what you're feeling right now.

Coming right out of the gate I did something so horrible, even as an 11 or 12 year old that I can't even mention here. And it was a few behaviors that were very predatory in nature (non-criminal) and I came to a breach in my soul like- I don't know how any of that could ever be forgiven. In order for me to go forward, even later in life, I had to just literally 'trust God' for my forgiveness and leave it in His hands.

But this is what trusting is all about, that ALL our sins were forgiven- and furthermore, that we were given righteousness as a free gift. That's something that's difficult to believe, but all it takes is that we believe, that we trust... Steve, you're forgiven.
 
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Day 40, porn free. Some weird shit just happened. I was asleep. My wife was not home. My phone was not even in the room with me. I wake up at 3:05 AM. I go into the living room and pick up my phone to text my wife and see where she was. There was a text sent at 2:45 AM which I AT FIRST THOUGHT was INCOMING from my wife with a link attached. I click on it thinking it was another audio book or something she wanted me to listen to... It was a porn site I used to frequent. And it was a profile I had created. Then after further inspection I realize that it was OUTGOING. The link had been sent FROM my phone TO her phone. I was asleep. She wasn't home. Who (or what) sent that link to her? And why? Well, she didn't get pissed (although understandably anything triggers suspicion at this point) because she knows I wouldn't text her a porn site I used to frequent and tell on myself. So... Who or what sent that text? The wife and I are both former morticians. We are both Christian. If you believe in God you by default also believe in the opposite side of the spiritual spectrum. And we have both over the course of many years spent in funeral homes, morgues, mortuaries, cemeteries, etc. seen unexplainable stuff happen. I wont go into detail on that front. But suffice it to say I understand how profoundly the spiritual realm can influence the natural... So... Did something demonic send that text? Yesterday I posted about how negligible the level of temptation to use is on me. Is the evil one trying to turn up the heat behind my boast of how weak his efforts at temptation are? Is he trying to start more argument between Shawna and I. I am weirded out.
 

TryingHarder

Active Member
Steve. Degenerate POS. Day 38.
Unless referring to yourself in such horrible ways actually helps, what the hell? Beating yourself up and character assassination by your wife won't help. Sounds like this "betrayed spouse support group" have some serious anger issues. A healthy amount of guilt is beneficial, but you're taking it to extremes.
 

GBS

Well-Known Member
I am in total agreement with @TryingHarder - stop feeling sorry for yourself and just focus on recovery and no more porn ever. I have no views on the weird thing that happened but don’t make that some conspiracy against you. Just carry on and the devil can go screw himself. He doesn’t like that you’re changing. He hates it. He really hates it when you keep doing it. Focus on that.

and just keep going and be nice to yourself. You’re helping me get through this so thanks for that.
 
Day 41 devoid of porn. Kind of tired from all the fallout from yesterday's events. I think I am actually stronger than I give myself credit for. I continue to have an optimistic outlook on the future even though I am being reminded of how shitty my past was on a near daily basis. But in spite of all that I still have relatively no temptation to regress. Maybe the forced focus on my past is eating so much of my thought process I have nothing left to entertain any temptation. Or... Maybe the part of me with the stick-to-it-tiveness has a stronger resolve than those around me credit me for. Because even though I began this quest with her interests in mind, after I got a ways into the porn-free lifestyle I realized I LIKED being in control of my addictive nature. I LIKED defeating the beast every day. Even though I am constantly reminded of what a deviant shit I was I still at the end of the day thumb my nose at the porn demons who used to enslave me. I know that they trigger my wife to get her pissed off at me in an effort to put me in the, "If I gotta take the ass whippin' every day I might as well use" mind set. AIN'T WORKIN'.... I see thorough all that. That tactic has failed for 41 days now. It wont work on day 42, or 52 or 162 either. Stop attacking my wife. Maybe I need to put a prayer barrier around her, as it is she who is being attacked. Hmmm.
Persevere Brethren and Sistren.
 
If you guys saw the materials I created (I am pretty good at photoshop) you'd call me a despicable piece of shit too. I wake up most mornings wishing I had died in my sleep. Not looking for pity, that's just how it is. Every time I think of those images I created I wish I was dead.
She got raped. I made photoshopped cartoons of her being raped. I AM A DESPICABLE PIECVE OF SHIT...
 
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