A journal

[Winnerwhoabstains]

A sneaky urge hit me a moment ago. Really mild but catching it early is good. Hard to describe it's kind of like idk, thinking about why certain porn inspired nonsense is not good and imagining talking about it. But really it is a sneaky way to think about it lol. It is hard to describe but good to catch!


Hmm, dating life I think focusing big picture is important. I notice when I am overly compassionate for a girl too early, they lose interest. I forget women are not babies, they don't need to be babied.


Like a recurring mistake I have made is being overly respectful of their schedules, I notice when I do that, the women will start to disrespect my schedule. Whereas if I am just like not too available and act entitled women act a lot more accommodating.

I mean this is just cold hard what has been in my experience. It seems like in dating women either take the like position that they are less important or that they are more important, not really with an in between. I am NOT saying I mean to treat them poorly, but I think the natural right way is for her to be in the chasing/ less important position because as a guy if she is in that position I care about her well being and feel endeared to her, whereas women don't have that same thing and in my experience treat guys like crap when they don't think too highly of them

 

[TypeN]

Just wanted to offer some thoughts here. I don’t really date lol, so take it with a grain of salt, but;

I think maybe another way to look at this is that the things you’re talking about are reflective of traits that are attractive to women, because they’re attractive in general.

A busy guy could be attractive because he has a full life, with a variety of goals, and is getting things done/being ambitious (a busy woman could be attractive for the same reasons). He has less time for girls because he's using that time to work on or do things he cares about. Or maybe it's not just about attraction: perhaps she's just pretty busy, and when you're very accommodating, she assumes you aren't.

Similarly, a guy who is somewhat reserved at first could be attractive because he has standards (not implying you don't!). Perhaps there are specific character traits he’d like to see in a girl, and it takes time to get to know one well enough to know she has them (don’t judge a book by its cover, and all that). Or maybe he’s reserved because it makes some girls more comfortable; some people are just a slower burn than others after all.

I’m not denying that there can be a sort of competitive psychology in things like dating, but I think it’s easy to get in your head about that stuff too. Sometimes the explanation is more simple and harmless. You’re a smart, ambitious guy who’s working on building a great life; perhaps focusing more on that and less on what these ladies are thinking could bring you some peace?

 

[Beautiful1973]

A busy guy could be attractive because he has a full life, with a variety of goals, and is getting things done/being ambitious (a busy woman could be attractive for the same reasons). He has less time for girls because he's using that time to work on or do things he cares about.

You’re a smart, ambitious guy who’s working on building a great life; perhaps focusing more on that and less on what these ladies are thinking could bring you some peace?

What @TypeN said,
Just be your authentic self, trying to work out what other people are thinking, or their responses will drive you crazy and it’s not your problem, their actions are not on you!

 

[Winnerwhoabstains]

I appreciate the positivity and kind words, but I kind of think I am right.

This does not mean I hold it against women or anything. But, just being pragmatic, I have found this to be extremely true.

Like it seems women tend to be on the extreme, at least in my big city, where things are fast paced. They are either like chasing and kind of like acting like you are much better than them, or they flip immediately and act like you are a nobody. And I have seen time and again that when I get too like " oh is this time good for?" or " oh this is short notice, we can always do another time?"

Basically what would be considerate if I did it to a friend, normally the girl will flip and then suddenly become a lot less responsive.

I mean I could try and white wash it, but a more accurate and useful mental model for me to keep in mind, is to keep this in mind. And aim to be the one who is the one she is chasing, as that is the frame the girl is coming from. Because if I am in that position I am considerate but I can not show it too much, I don't mean be some jerk, but basically act under the assumption that she is always dying to hang out and make it scarce.

I guess I can combine with the idea that I am super busy like you said, but I am telling you guys the model of girls flip floping between the two extremes is very accurate.

It is a little hard to explain but it is very there. Like the girls are either like super eager to please or they like treat you like you are a nobody.


I mean, I have been on dates with probably several 100 women, approached several thousand. Seen all sorts of wild stuff, in terms of how women can behave.

I feel like society kind of brainwashes guys to be like sheep and view women as like these super innocent people that need to be babied. But I guess when you have as much experience as I have, it is pretty wild just seeing like the rapid changes, how a girl can be so sweet or sensitive to herself but they can have no concern for your feelings so quickly.

I mean most guys I know who have dated a lot recognize this.

I am sure this sounds kind of negative because we have been taught that. But I want to stress I really like women, but just having a grounding in a practical understanding of how things work allows for better relationships. AS - again, when I am using a mental model I would use with a male friend like, oh I should respect her time. Time and again the girl has immediately changed her behaviour towards me in a very negative way. Like getting less responsive changing to "I'll let you know" versus yes etc.

Basically I think women jump between two distinct categories in their feelings :

1) They are going after a guy they can not get, and are in competition for him with other women who are more desirable than her.
2) He is a guy who is pursuing her.


I notice women have like very very little respect for guys they think are into them, and know they have, like it is wild.

So, being in category 1 is crucial. BUT the key is why category one is good - is as a guy I feel compassion for women, like if a woman is vulnerable, I'll want to care about her.

SO - the solution is, to ensure I fall into category 1 and act as if I am much more important than the girl.

Again, I feel like I keep qualifying my answer, but I mean, this is what actually works for dating. The dating world is crazy now a days. Most guys go on zero dates in a year and other guys are dating all the women. I have been in the latter camp and again I'll say it is shocking how differently women can treat you based on your perceived status. Like it is insane and there is no way to describe the reality with honesty in a whitewashed PC way.


I guess for me I also have to balance, because I really appreciate the kind words and positive outlook. But at the same time I notice I am kind of trying to censor and qualify the way things really are.

I guess sometimes I get frustrated because I have soooo much freaking experience, and like other friends I have who have been on the side of like dating lots of girls 100% agree.

But then I slip into the wrong way from time to time. But to really get results having an accurate model of the world is necessary.

To be fair though, I guess one way to put it is, for the dating life I want, this is an accurate and necessary model. But for others it may not be, like idk in smaller cities, or meeting girls in class etc. I meet general high in demand girls, they are being hit up on social media and stuff constantly, so there really is no in between of like " oh I think he is okay" the girl either fears losing you, or you are quickly forgotten and end up in the heaps of guys they have no respect for who are hitting them up on social media. I have heard how girls talk about guys hitting them up online and on social media, and yes it is literally all girls

 

[Kraken]

NEED TO CLEAN MY PLACE

Alright when it comes to organization and cleanliness, I am at rock bottom.

This is not like " I am disorganized" my place literally looks like a mental patient lives here. I am not kidding. I spilled a bunch of califlower rice the other day and am sitting in a chair where their is still rice on it . The stress of finding things is giving me urges and is anxiety provoking.

Basically I went through a AWFUL time early in 2022 ( starting the end of 2021 - but it got so bad I was devastated in early 2022) . Which led to me relapsing and a true severe depression for the first time in my life.

I have never been great with organizing but I got much worse and do a bit of hoarding now, like I buy the same stuff at the dollar store over and over and lose it.

I NEED to become a minimalist. Most of the stuff I have is absolutely on an emotional basis.

For example, I have two ab wheels - I used one maybe twice. I have a shoulder injury making this an awful exercise for me that I never do. One is a special one for the obliques, I have not wanted to throw out either : they need to go!


I have a bunch of resistance bands, two of them I had when my others broke, they are super long and make no sense, even as I right this in my mind there is a "but what if I need them for something" thought - nonsense!

I don't know what is contained in like so many containers I have around. So much of what I have is "just in case"
A half empty basketball I never used.
A pump to fill it.

A nerf ball, I probably have like 2-3 of the same one and last I used one of them was over a year ago.

Uggghh - and I have yet to start doing any filming.

But wow the stress and urges from this mess. It has reached a point where this has got to change.

I tell myself like - ohhh I have more important things to do.

For me - I do have severe ADHD and the ONLY way I can keep things clean is by doing things immediately. Or else it literally takes a few hours for toal caos. So do dishes before I even start eating etc.

I keep putting it off, thinking I have other things to do, rushing around.

But, no way I am losing on average at least an hour a day to the mess, and the lowered efficiency from the mental load probably makes it wayyy more.

So I need to accept - okay maybe it does take me an extra 45 min a day to keep my place not a mess ( spread out, like putting things away, not throwing on the floor etc). But I'll get the time back. For me it does take a long time to keep things nice, but at this point, seeing this bottom, it is worth it

Uggh feel like crap


EDIT: I reiterate I NEED to become a minimalist. I do not want to, I want to keep 100s of books I will never read again or books I bought on accident I have no interest in, or my game for 5 year olds in case I ever want to play it again with a girl or something.

But I NEED to become a minimalist. For the way my brain works it is the way for me to live. AND I want to start traveling and being a bit nomadic, for that it is necessary as well.

Just like many of us did not "want" to quit pmo, it gave us short term fleeting pleasure, but the downsides were too much the effects harming our lives too much, so it was time to quit.

Same with my hoarding, minimalism is the way to go.

AND - I oughta remind myself, having minimal stuff, and SPACE will clear my head and make me sooo much more productive leading me towards my goals.

Making money with my own business, having a wonderful social and dating life
and being in great shape ( all will be massively helped by getting rid of this cognitive load and stress)
will bring me a LOT more happiness then a bunch of stuff " just in case"

Something that was helpful for me in this area was Marie Kondo’s book: “the life changing magic of tidying up”. Her philosophy around keeping things that bring you joy and setting things free that no longer bring you joy resonates with me. She does recommend a tidying marathon but keep in mind that is over like three months and don’t burn yourself out. A little goes a long way.

 

[TypeN]

Hey man, how are things? Just checking since you dropped off.

I hope everything is alright. Would be good to hear what's new, however things are going!

 

[Winnerwhoabstains]

Something that was helpful for me in this area was Marie Kondo’s book: “the life changing magic of tidying up”. Her philosophy around keeping things that bring you joy and setting things free that no longer bring you joy resonates with me. She does recommend a tidying marathon but keep in mind that is over like three months and don’t burn yourself out. A little goes a long way.

Thanks Kraken! I have heard of it, I'll check it out

 

[Winnerwhoabstains]

Hey man, how are things? Just checking since you dropped off.

I hope everything is alright. Would be good to hear what's new, however things are going!

Dude thanks for checking in! Dang it - I lapsed.

It was very bizarre, I started M'ing like not aware what I was doing, while half asleep. That has happened in the past but not in a loongg time, my solution to it used to be to tape a t shirt to my underwear, so I'd have to wake up to do something like that.

Then it escalated a bit, and was in and out of lapsing for a bit of time.

It REALLY effected me and in other ways I have gotten off track with things, was not sleeping enough I believe.

But, anyway - I am changing up my routine and getting back on track now.

 

[TypeN]

Dude thanks for checking in! Dang it - I lapsed.

It was very bizarre, I started M'ing like not aware what I was doing, while half asleep. That has happened in the past but not in a loongg time, my solution to it used to be to tape a t shirt to my underwear, so I'd have to wake up to do something like that.

Then it escalated a bit, and was in and out of lapsing for a bit of time.

It REALLY effected me and in other ways I have gotten off track with things, was not sleeping enough I believe.

But, anyway - I am changing up my routine and getting back on track now.

Good to have you back dude. No shame in that! It's good that you see the lapse for what it is.

I bet checking in here more regularly could help you. Will keep an eye out for your posts.

 

[Winnerwhoabstains]

Good to have you back dude. No shame in that! It's good that you see the lapse for what it is.

I bet checking in here more regularly could help you. Will keep an eye out for your posts.

Thank you man - you are sooo right! Going to absolutely check in more.


Also - set small commitments for myself and get back on track.

So - aiming to check in here 6 days this week. I suppose I'll count the week as starting now.

 

[Winnerwhoabstains]

So - today, I still felt a bit "off' BUT - I had a therapy appointment and I am gratful it went well. My therapist is quite good.

Afterward I went to yoga and WOW - that is going to be a priority now.


Yoga and lifting are top fitness priorities, then after that are other activities.

I had so much tension in my body and the yoga just released a lot of emotion. I feel some of it returning but that few hours of calm respite was incredible. Just incredible. I know if I do a bit more of it, my bodies set point will be calmer. So I am excited to make yoga a priority.

I am also going to pick my battles a bit - I do want to lose a bit of weight - but simply I have more pressing matters, like abstaining and getting back on track with business. I have around 6-9 pounds to lose. And losing that amount would have me pretty lean, like an athletic build. It is not as if I am super overweight. I absolutely want to get into very good condition again, but just I am going to go a bit easy on myself and focus on the most important things and stop trying to do it all.

For example - I was losing so much time surfing the internet, I do much better internet free ( I'll just use to post here, and for work stuff but replacing watching screens with reading). I find reading for 30 minutes provides MORE relaxation then 2 hours of watching youtube videos - where the time seems to just disappear ( not to mention sometimes running into stress on the internet) so focusing on this is more important. It also lowers urges, basically it is a bigger rock to work on.


So I feel good now, but I'll plan to succeed tonight also :

I am going to take it easy and do healthy relaxation - going to read lord of the rings in living room a decent bit
Then read it in bed
Going to tape shirt to underwear now lol
And going to plug in my old phone ( it is not so triggering) so it is prepared to play relaxing music as I fall asleep ( will set timer to turn off automatically) the cool thing I can even start the music as I read.

So that is the plan for tonight and looking forward to writing more here, as writing is very good for my mind. I can perhaps even journal ( maybe I'll label entries like that, if they are not super related to beating the addiction - so my journal is more easily read)

Looking forward to tomorrow - I believe I did a good job recovering these last two days so I'll wake up in a good place tomorrow

 

[Androg]

LOTR is my favorite. Good choice

 

[Winnerwhoabstains]

LOTR is my favorite. Good choice

Thanks! Yeah it has been great so far. Wild I had never read it before!

 

[Winnerwhoabstains]

So last night I followed the plan! Reading, then I played the music and fell asleep. I actually faced the opposite way on my bed - it is surprising how much of a difference that made. I just felt different and almost like I was on vacation. The variety was really nice and I think helped to break old patterns.


I woke up not feeling too good, but the cool thing is I got up before my alarm was set for ( funny it was on the old phone which had died but I beat the alarm time anyway).

Anyways, not feeling too good but - I thought to myself how I read a book recently about how focusing on how you are feeling too much is not so good - focus on what tasks need to be done, on making progress. Rather than taking emotional temperature too much.

Anyway, I made my bed and did an extra minute of straightening up.

I did my prehab exercises.

Now, the next planned task is my meditation, but physically I do not feel good. Writing that I think maybe I should just suck it up lol. ( I was thinking to go to the sauna at my gym)


Well I am not sure, but now I am spending a lot of time thinking while I write. So I'll check back in later

 

[Winnerwhoabstains]

So, I meditated and noticed I was super stressed physically and mentally - I think I am still recovering form the lapses.

I did the sauna and a cold shower and felt good for a bit after.


So - I keep getting these scam texts - I get like 8 a day and they are very annoying. They come from some weird email, and maybe I can not block them? Or they just change it everytime. Grrr - idk. Well what I did just do is turn the phone off.

 

[Winnerwhoabstains]

Quick check in : Just keeping myself honest. Had some mild urges, they are not things to ignore! I have still been off and tired - but I think pulling out of it so tomorrow can be the day I am back to myself and productive! so beating the urges are critical.

Simple plan : Read
then sleep
lol

 

[Blondie]

Nice job @Winnerwhoabstains!

 

[Winnerwhoabstains]

Well this is embarassing - feel like I don't deserve that nice job.... lol

I MO'd last night.

Well - just saying I'll do this and that, was not enough. I needed a bit more than that. Gotta be more disciplined.

So, today going to journal SPECIFICALLY in preparation to abstain.

I also know exactly how it happened

Thought of girl from yoga class
led to
Fantasy about her
led to
Bits of fantasy about porn type stuff
led to
mo with porn fantasy

So - I also need to be much stricter about thoughts I can allow while in bed. So I need to also be willing to GET up and distract myself until the thoughts pass - can't lay around in bed. Gotta be tougher

 

[TypeN]

Well this is embarassing - feel like I don't deserve that nice job.... lol

I MO'd last night.

Well - just saying I'll do this and that, was not enough. I needed a bit more than that. Gotta be more disciplined.

So, today going to journal SPECIFICALLY in preparation to abstain.

I also know exactly how it happened

Thought of girl from yoga class
led to
Fantasy about her
led to
Bits of fantasy about porn type stuff
led to
mo with porn fantasy

So - I also need to be much stricter about thoughts I can allow while in bed. So I need to also be willing to GET up and distract myself until the thoughts pass - can't lay around in bed. Gotta be tougher

I for one have gotten multiple "nice jobs" while in periods of struggle, so I don't think you need to begrudge yourself the encouragement! We're here for you and you deserve support for picking yourself back up. Good that you're reacting to this hiccup with an immediate plan.

BTW, what kind of meditation are you doing man? I've found that the guided kind (through Headspace) is making a big difference in how I relate to my thoughts these days.

 

[Winnerwhoabstains]

That is awesome man! Yeah guided can be great. The last few days I did some guided ones from Thich Nhat Hanh - he was a Vietnamese monk who was nominated for the nobel peace prize by MARTIN LUTHER KING jr. Can't imagine a much better peaceful credential then that.

This morning I listened to a "loving compassion" meditation by him. Which dovetails nicely into my story for the evening lol:

so I took it pretty easy today - I did my yoga lots of meditation. I planned to go out with my friend tonight - I did not want to but I am SO glad I did. I was so tired but socializing a lot was good for me.


I was really tired and tight but while waiting for my friend I stretched out a bit.

He's a good friend and I am glad we are hanging out more.

So we went to a bar ( we don't drink it was for like socializing/ pushing ourselves socially). I was surprised how nervous I felt. I was nervous kind of feeling awkward.

But I made myself talk to these two girls - I kept it really short just a few words, they were friendly. But I walked away, which was the right move. Keep it short sweet and positive.

I was standing with my friend as he was ordering seltzer for us.

I won't hide it - the following story I am basically bragging being immature etc.

Some guy was like staring me in the eye - like giving me a hard look. I nodded to him to be friendly. He kept staring giving me the look.

I was a bit annoyed. Then he was standing close behind me. I thought he wanted to order at the bar- so again I was friendly and tried to make space in case he wanted to order. He said " I am just here" or something I tried to be friendly and also said " yeah me too, just hanging" - want to make space for people in case they want to order.

He kept repeating something like " I am just here" and he muttered something about girlfriend - I was a bit annoyed thought he might be saying some nonsense I asked what he said and he said " just don't talk to my girlfriend" . I asked him who his girlfriend was and he pointed to the girl next to me that I was not talking to. I said I was not talking to her, and then I said that he was starting to annoy me.

Then the dude -idk like starting touching my back. So I shoved him, and this is ego - but it is what it is. The dude went fucking flying lol. Like he landed on his back and I was not paying attention ( I was heated) but my friend said he slid on the ground several feet and his feet were in the air.

So in the moment I was really mad - but after the fact once I calmed down and my friend and I talked about it - I feel kind of proud of my shove lol. According to him people were ooing and aahing and in hindsight I did feel kind of good with the dude like sprawled out on the ground.

The dudes friends were nice to me -my friend was saying since the shove was like legit it may have detered them from fighting. The one friend of his said " I am not gonna lie that guy is kind of my friend". Like the friends were disowning him.


More relevant emotional stuff follows

The thing was though, in the moment I did not feel good. I did not feel bad for the guy.But I felt like " wow i am always getting into confrontations" " I can not go to bars because I will always get in fights" " I always run into issues with people"

and I was worrying that I wanted to go to a bar my friend worked at and worried I could not go there without getting into a confrontation ( I had honestly worried about this beforehand) - I even imagined/ thought maybe I should text him and just be like ( I can't go to your place because I don't trust myself ot not run into an issue)

I was thinking stuff like that. I was mad -we went to another bar and for the first chunk of time I was just standing there kind of still in heated mode not feeling like talking.

My friend talked to some girls.

But then he told me he thought a certain girl was cute - and I started talking to them, I was chatting a bit then told them the fight story. My friend came in and I kept talking about fighting and the girls clearly lost interest. But then I joked with the girls that I was the "worst wing man ever - just talking to girls about fighting " and we all laughed. So that put me in a better mood.

We went to another bar - and this girl was checking out my friend I told him and he did not go to them, so I did and the girl was super nice. And we ended up chatting. My friend came in, but a bit too early, so they started turning away ( not his fault, it's just like they weren't fully in the convo yet) but then I used a line I had forgotten that works well I said " hey, why are you being mean to my friend"

That kind of get there attention but not totally but then ( my friend is asian and SUPER jacked) I said " what are you guys racist? You don't like chinese super jacked guys?" ( super playfully) my friend laughed and this got the girls back in convo with us and it was good. I told some stories ( the racist thing was like a joke but also a lil manipulation so it'd be hard for them to not give him some attention and super jacked was kind of just me hyping him up) - my friend is cool and good with women, but kind of more of a quiet confidence and I am more extroverted energetic so it can work entertaining groups sometimes.

But anyway this was a lot of fun and put me in a good confident mood - I forgot what it is like to be in environments like that.

We went to one more place that was really loud and crowded and I just did some crappy dancing- which was fun. I look forward to going out again.


the situation with the dude I shoved was interesting. hmmm - I think I am really friendly and go out of my way to respect people, but some people are just assholes and view that as a weakeness and like want to take the opportunity to bully/ be a jerk. to me, I aim to be nice and respect people not based on if they'll retaliate or not, but just like cause why be a dick? Like if I found out some girl was dating a dude, not in 100 years would I try and pick her up in front of him, that is just being a scumbag - basically I aim not to do things that would result in me punching the person who did them to me lol.

Anyways - yeah I guess I kept being nice and courteous and he kept pushing and pushing - the wild thing is, he was not even dating the girl who was standing next to me! I don't really get how it started like the dude was staring at me with daggers. From the start.

I mean it did not turn out well for him. He got basically tossed across the bar, while he was on the ground I was explaining what happened to his friends and the girl laughed and pointed at him on the ground and said " that's not my boyfriend!" so I mean, dang that is pretty freaking embarrassing.

Also just funny - I had told my friend I wanted to work on like getting along with everyone. So he thought me and the dude were like becoming friends and I was working on like being friendly with everyone like I said. He said he literally had his hand out to high five the dude, to be friendly also then the dude is suddenly flying away lol.

But after that things were all peaceful and good and I had fun dancing and tons of fun chatting with the group of three girls with my friend. We left that bar because I was heated and like idk in a paranoid mood - maybe we should have stayed though, my friend said girls were checking us out - oh well. ( but who knows maybe another issue would of happened and things would escalate) And I am glad to be hanging with this friend more. We compliment each other well - we are both into fighting ( not street fights) and like masculine shit but he is more of like a confident quiet grounded guy and I am more extroverted - and he's a good dude, got good principles.


Anyway - thats it I guess. Going out was great, being in those environments really kind of brought me back to life - forgot how much I like bars and stuff. ( I don;t drink, but when I get in the mode can have a lot of fun in the high energy social environments)