Pretty dumb, for a smart guy.

Hello everyone,

I have been reading through the YBOP website for the last couple of weeks and I think I have made some really useful connections. Honestly I tend to be way too lenient with myself and it makes it so much easier to slide back into old habits. I think I knew this at one point too, which makes it a hard pill to swallow, but I have been allowing myself many behaviours that continue to sensitize the neural pathway. Even after a period of "abstinence" I struggle and eventually fall back into my porn habit.

I guess I'll include a bit of an introduction. I had everything I needed to live as a child, food, water, shelter, but I was emotionally neglected. My parents are both prone to their own coping mechanisms, my dad a workaholic, alcoholic, who will literally get up and run from emotional situations, my mom a food and TV addict who I suspect is autistic based on how cold she seems and her complete lack of understanding of social norms. (Nothing against autistic people, there are plenty of doctors that would be happy to place me on the spectrum.) I learned early on that my emotional needs were an inconvenience and by example how to distract myself from them and repress.

There was some sort of sexual abuse between some cousins and I but the memories are vague. I know from context that it all happened before I was eight years old and I never told anyone until my wife, thirty years later. My first experience with porn was probably around ten, a friend's dad left an adult channel on the kitchen TV while he was gone and we stumbled upon it. I remember compulsively masturbating while I was in middle school. I had a single page from a nude magazine hidden under my mattress for a while that I would look at before I went to sleep. My family got the internet shortly after and I spent an inordinate amount of time looking anything arousing. At first, of course, there was a filter but I could still find pictures of women in bikinis and that was enough for me. This quickly escalated to nudity, then hardcore porn, through several different genres, and finally to shemale porn. This triggered a new level of shame that I had never experienced, now in addition to just hiding this from my parents I had to hide it from everyone. This is where I first truly experienced not being able to control my behaviour. I began the cycle of downloading massive collections of material then deleting everything and swearing to myself I would stop, only to start over a little while later.

I have been in "recovery" on and off for about eleven years now. Most of my efforts have been pretty half-assed though so I think it's not terribly accurate to call it recovery. Towards the end of last year I started actually tracking my behaviours and making an effort to change them. Like I said I have been too lax with myself, specifically with my definition of sobriety. I have re-assessed and I am including the substitutes I have been using. I am also making an effort to directly engage with my emotions rather than trying to escape them, I think this is what triggered some of my recent slip ups due to triggering my urge to escape and my lack of clear boundaries with myself. I feel good about where I am though, with respect to recovery, I believe I have a good grasp on what I have to do, and I am making progress, I am on the right track. I have often struggled to see myself as a healthy person but I really feel like it is possible now. I am watching the layers of denial and minimizations peel back and I am dealing with the reality of the situation, which is incredibly painful, but I know it's necessary. I am looking forward to this.

I'm on day 13 of my full reboot, 159 with no porn, and 47 with no masturbation.

Thank you, anyone who has read this. I look forward to being a part of this community.
 
Day 14

I have committed to a 90 day reboot for which I will abstain from anything that could possibly be linked to my compulsive behaviour pattern. It was a rookie mistake to be allowing the porn substitutes, I'm embarrassed that I was so naive. I know these behaviours are linked to the sensitised neural pathway that leads me back to porn but I want to be sure I steer well clear of everything that could do so.

I am abstaining from:
  • Porn
  • Masturbation
  • Porn substitutes
  • Social media
  • binge viewing youtube
  • Alcohol
  • Fantasy
  • Entertaining intrusive thoughts
  • Objectifying women in public
  • Being preoccupied with work
  • Being perfectionist with school work
  • Staying too busy with housework
Really I'll probably cut out most of this indefinitely. I have a tendency to waste a lot of time and my life suffers because of it. My habit formed as a way to escape and distract myself and that is the underlying behaviour I am trying to change. I am doing a lot of work now to process the backlog of emotions, accept reality, and deal with the the consequences of how I have been living. I had a much longer, more thoughtful, and well worded post written out but I went over to another tab to check something and it disappeared, so I'm done for now.
 
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Blondie,

Thanks! I'm glad to be here. I used to participate in a forum at Recovery Nation that was also abbreviated RN, still feels weird seeing it here. They have a great self guided programme all available for free but you are no longer able to create new posts on the forum. It's kind of a bummer.

I have been a fan of the man with no name trilogy since I was a kid. Awesome name/picture!

Good luck!
 
Day 15

I have been struggling a lot with depression for the past couple of months. I was doing better for a while yesterday, feeling motivated and I was looking forward to catching up on some of the things that have been neglected. My wife said something that reminded me of how much of a toll my actions have taken on her life and self esteem and it really took the wind out of my sails. The rest of that day and all day today I've got just about nothing accomplished and I feel like shit. I feel guilty for having a relatively good day while she is still struggling and I know I have spent so much time ignoring how this has affected her and I can't let that happen again.

I have been started working on my emotional literacy a few months ago and it has really changed how this whole thing is going. Initially it really opened a can of worms, I don't think I was really prepared for it and ended up having a few slip ups when I felt overwhelmed. I have been actually feeling all the shit I was avoiding for a couple decades though and I know that's what I need to do. It sucks but it does come with a weird sort of pride or accomplishment. The repression, and avoiding, and distracting, and denial, and minimisation is what has allowed my poor choices to continue for so many years.
 
Thanks @Beautiful1973 don't give me too much credit though. I have severely neglected that aspect of this whole thing for so many years.

Day 16

I'm still really depressed, I've barely been sleeping, I'm behind on cleaning the house, I feel like there's always too much to do and I can't get ahead of it. I'm up late now finishing homework and I'm having trouble with that too. Who knew quantum physics is hard!? I'm still fighting my perfectionism on school stuff but I'm having a lot of trouble focusing too.

I would really like to have more structure to my days and my recovery plan but I'm barely able to keep up with everything. I know I need to be kind to myself and allow time to process the emotions and everything but I get nervous about it. I have been way too lenient with myself in the past and wasted so much opportunity. I guess I don't trust myself to tell the difference between compassion and just making excuses.
 
Day 19

I wanted to move this to the morning so I can cut out screen time before bed. I've still been having a lot of trouble sleeping, I guess if I am tired enough I will sleep.

Yesterday was probably the last warm day we will have this year, I was able to go for a walk in a local forest preserve with my dog and my wife. I have been meaning to spend some time outside for a while, it is something that tends to help my mental state and I should really make a point of getting out in nature regularly. It will be much harder to do all winter but I'm less bothered than most people about the cold.

I have been thinking a lot about my parents lately. New things keep coming to mind that represent how neglectful they were, not malicious or mean for the most part, they just couldn't be bothered. I know they both have their own issues and trauma that they never dealt with and that is what caused the problems they had raising their kids, but it doesn't make it any easier to deal with. As much pain as I have dealing with all of this I am also so angry with myself for repeating many of these patterns in my relationship with my wife. I should have known better. In part I lied to myself, I told myself that this is what love and caring look like because, as a child, admitting that your parents don't care about you means certain death. I bought into this false narrative to survive but on some level I always knew better, and for some time I have been dealing with the pain I have from this while continuing to harm her in the same ways.
 
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Beautiful1973

Active Member
I've still been having a lot of trouble sleeping, I guess if I am tired enough I will sleep.
Have you tried Magnesium tablets? I poowho'd them for a starter, gave up when I didn't get instant results.....LOL..... but then I developed a twitch in my eyelid, which can be a sign of low Magnesium, so I started taking them again and after 3 months I noticed I was sleeping better and not waking up in the night like I had been doing.......I'm still a bugger for not going to bed early, but the Magnesium has definitely helped.
Disclaimer: I am a Skin Therapist so I can recommend supplements.....LOL!
 
@Beautiful1973 I take magnesium pretty regularly, helps with muscle spasms I've had since a car accident a few years ago. Twitching muscles are a classic sign of magnesium deficiency. I have noticed the tablets do take some time to work, we use this magnesium citrate powder that you dissolve in a drink, it seems to be faster acting.

Day 20

Yesterday was pretty rough, I was feeling pretty down with all my family issues still on the top of my mind. I was ineffective at work, couldn't really concentrate, no motivation. Sitting at my desk all day I felt like I had no pressing tasks but remembered several things that should have been done as soon as I was on my way out. Had class last night as well, the topic we are covering is confusing and I feel lost. I have noticed myself being more irritable yesterday and today too. I am feeling really overwhelmed, tasks keep piling up, due dates and deadlines are approaching, and I can't find the energy to get anything done. This is a dangerous place for me to be, this is where I typically start trying to escape. I have removed all of my normal methods and I am trying to stay vigilant and stop myself from finding new ones. I feel like this is the time when I should have H E A L T H Y ways of dealing with shit. I feel like I want to get a way and I try to think of healthy ways of doing that, maybe go for a walk, meditate or something, but the "getting away" is the fucking problem. I need to deal with it.

While talking to my wife about all our family issues the other day I noticed something: Even though I recognise and accept how my actions have mirrored how my parents treated me, I still have some defensiveness around it. While trying to put into words how I felt about my experience she mentioned a couple of time how I had done the same thing and I found myself reacting poorly, internally, it was jarring, I need to think about this. I know I have had a tendency to focus on the wrong aspects of things, I know that she believes, understandably so, that I don't see her pain and she makes these comparisons so I will understand. I don't know what to think. I know I can't always trust what I think. This is tricky.
 
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Day 21

I knew there was something off about our conversation the other day so I talked to her about it. It's this crazy new idea I'm trying where you communicate directly with people rather than making assumptions based it your perceptions. She was feeling insulted that I was looking to her for sympathy for the same situation I have put her in. It makes perfect sense now that she said it and I feel stupid again for not thinking of it. Like I said, I recognise the similarities, I just didn't think of that aspect. We have had several conversations about this in the past and she has always seemed empathetic, or maybe I'm just oblivious to the signs of her irritation. I am way behind on actually addressing the ways in which I have harmed her too so the reaction may be exaggerated as I go on about it now rather than more urgent topics. Either way, she's right and I need to take that into account when I talk to her.
 

Sammyjo

Active Member
You sound so much like what my husband is going through. Especially
It's this crazy new idea I'm trying where you communicate directly with people rather than making assumptions based it your perceptions.
And this
I know that she believes, understandably so, that I don't see her pain and she makes these comparisons so I will understand. I don't know what to think. I know I can't always trust what I think. This is tricky.
His childhood was very similar to yours. But I would say his parents were just too stressed and busy to take time to communicate emotion other than anger. What I am noticing is that for a smart guy with overall good communication skills he often misidentifies both his and my emotions. One tiny example, when I vent to him, if my voice is elevated/loud he tells me to stop yelling at him, I explain I'm not yelling at him but rather I am yelling to him (not angry with him, rather I am expressing my anger about someone else to him). (Of course there are sometimes where I yet AT him)

I also do the comparison thing you mentioned your wife does. It often seems to irritate him, but I can't seem to find another way to get him to understand. I believe it's because he is not in touch with his emotions, and the only way for him to feel it is to "flip the script". (For me, his understanding-TRULY understanding what he has put me through feels very important in rebuilding trust. He has told me he didn't understand the depths of hurt he caused the first time I found out, if he doesn't understand now then why wouldn't he go back to it again)

I think it is huge that you have recognized that you have been emotionally neglecting your wife. And it's huge that you are trying to be more direct in your communication. The dealing with emotions seems to be a huge stressor for my husband. Taking the time to dig in and identify what the emotion is and then relaying out loud, calmly (becoming emotionally naked and therefor vulnerable in many ways) leaves him ill-at-ease, and I think is adding to his restless nights.

So give yourself a little break and know you are working HARD at repairing the damage. Maybe you can sleep a little easier knowing you "did your best today".

Good luck!
 
Thank you @Sammyjo it means a lot coming from someone on your side.

I imagine your husband does not have well developed emotional intelligence. It's a common side effect of avoiding emotions your entire life. By intentionally disconnecting from our emotions for so long we lose the ability to do so, it actually causes physical changes in the brain. Until he puts the time and effort into building these skills he will lack the ability to truly understand. Unfortunately when you try to force it he is probably feeling attacked and getting defensive, and you are just building resentment.

I have benefited greatly from doing emotional literacy exercises. I can share details of the one I am using if he's interested, or he can just search for that term, I'm sure there's several versions out there. A word of warning though, this may stir up some serious shit. For me, this ment coming face to face with the very thing I have been running from my entire life. It sounds like he may be touching on this a little already.

I hope you gain some insight from this. I've made some assumptions based on my own experience and my understanding of neuroscience is rudimentary. I could be mistaken. Best of luck to both of you!
 

Sammyjo

Active Member
@the_correct_wolf
I would love it if you would share the details on the emotional literacy exercises.

And YUP! Luckily for me he is not getting resentful. (I think initially when I was basically forcing him to participate in fixing us rather than wait for trust to redevelop he was getting resentful, but I turned the reins over to him and said if he wanted us to be fixed I was no longer going to drag him through it, he would have to initiate the work)

We have been reading "Hold Me Tight" together and it is forcing him to identify emotions as discuss the questions in the book. Strangely we seem to have flipped roles this past week. He says he feels like the character Bruce Willis played on Friends (where Bruce Willis had no emotions and when he opened up a little it became A LOT). He's really not though. We're only a couple chapters in and although it has been rough for him, I am in a much better state of mind and we have already developed skills to better understand each other.
 
@Sammyjo I meant that you would resent him.The more you "lead a horse to water" the more you'll resent him for not drinking. I guess it goes both ways though.

The emotional literacy exercise I use is from Richard Grannon, the full version I think he only posted on his instantgram but it's buried all the way at the bottom. There's a video here: Easy Introduction to Emotional Literacy Lite but I think he leaves out what I think is the most valuable part. I'll paraphrase real quick.

Write this all down on paper, with a pen, in real life, seriously.
  1. Identify your emotions. Start with the big ones.
  2. Drill down and get more specific. What's behind the anger? Because you feel threatened, scared? Pretty standard emotional literacy. You can look up lists of emotions or and emotion wheel to help identify more complex emotions if you need to.
  3. Acknowledge that emotions are normal, healthy, and there to help. You need to recognise them and listen to what they are trying to tell you.
  4. Write out three reasons that you feel each emotion.
  5. Write out three thing YOU can DO to feel more of this (if it's a good emotion) or less of this (if it's bad). Focus on yourself, you can't control anyone else, nobody owes you anything, no one is coming to save you. Focus on action, be proactive. What actions can you actually take?
The last two steps really help make and reinforce the connections between your actions and the consequences. People who repeatedly engage in behaviour that hurts the people around them do a lot to disconnect those, they shift blame, rationalise, minimise, etc. This helps re-develop what we've broken. I think it helps.
 
Day 27

I've been really busy the last few days and I haven't spent as much time doing recovery work as I would like. I have been reading a few posts on here and offering some advice but I really need to be sharing my own story more. I have a tendency to offer advice to others while staying at a distance myself, like I have everything figured out and I'm some expert. I also have a tendency to over intellectualise and lie to myself, I need practice staying in touch with my emotions and opening up enough that you guys can call me out when I'm fooling myself.

My next big task is going to be some sort of formal disclosure to my wife. In all the years I have been dragging her through this I have never really done that before, so it's well past time to get to work on it. I have a lot of anxiety about doing it an I can think of several ways this could go south, so if anyone has been through this, I would love to hear any advice you may have. There are obvious reasons I don't really want to do this like facing the shame and guilt of everything I have done but I'm also legitimately concerned that I will forget something. My wife is very clever and uncommonly intuitive, she has recently mentioned a few things that I don't think I would have included. I kind of think she probably already knows about everything. I don't think that's the main point of doing this, nor does it justify avoiding it in any way, but it does increase my fear of not being able to complete it adequately. I guess actually going through with it will be a big improvement over ignoring it for eleven years though. So the bar is low to begin with.
 

Sammyjo

Active Member
You could try what my husband did and didn't do...

First he purposefully lied while telling the truth - don't think I need to say it, but DON'T do that.

Second, qualify your full disclosure - state that because of the length of time there maybe details that you are forgetting at the moment, but here are the most important things I think you should know. If she says "what about this or that" try not to get defensive and continue being honest.

Again, we're all different, but for me honesty was the key. (Now I've got Billy Joel stuck in my head)

Good luck!
 
Thanks @Sammyjo I think I have been living out what not to do this whole time so, I guess odds are any genuine effort will be a massive improvement. I've done some thinking, and reading, about this and I think the point is not to have a comprehensive list of every event, but to put some thought into what I have done and how it has affected her, and then to own up to it. Doing this forces me to face the denial and minimisation I have around all of this, I have left many of the details unsaid because she already knows but that allows the facts to remain malleable. I don't know exactly what she knows and she doesn't know exactly what happened. Getting it all out there creates a shared truth that can't be changed by either party. I think I've understood this to some extent because there have been times when she confronts me about things and what she thinks happened is worse that what I've actually done. I don't say anything to correct her on these points. I think I know that the differences are negligible, they are the language I use to minimise the severity to myself and if I say it to her I know she will call that out. By keeping it in I can continue to tell myself that "it wasn't as bad as she thinks was".
 
Day 31

I need more time in the day. A few more days in the week would be helpful as well. I don't feel much different with 30 days under my belt, but I feel like I've really turned over a new leaf this time. I think cutting out ALL my methods of escapism has really forced me to deal with reality and helped me keep denial at bay. Without denial I see porn for what it is and the allure is gone, I am aware of the harm it has done and I have no desire to compound it.

I spent most of the weekend working on the car, a job that should have taken a few hours that was extended because I didn't have the right tools. I should have known better, I had the thought but didn't act. I think I've learned a lesson this time. We had some seasonable warm weather so, it could have been much less enjoyable. We did also manage to spend some time in nature which is nice and much needed.

I also spent some time with family, and I think I could have done without that. My brother invited me out of the blue and the last time he did it was to announce they were having a child. I went partially out of fear that I would miss some other important announcement. I have a lot of feelings yet to process regarding my family and a lot of grieving left to do, I think. I tell myself that I don't expect anything from them and that I am disconnected because that's where I know that's the position I need to achieve in order to be able to spend time around them. I'm not there yet. It was mostly pleasant but I think just being around them brings up all the issues that haven't been totally worked out. It's hard to point to anything in particular and that makes it hard for me to admit that it bothers me. They did ask me how my job was going and then cut me off mid sentence to change the subject, which is a good example of how much they care about what's going on in my life. They also made it clear that they have no idea what I do. My wife thinks they are threatened because I am more successful than any of them and it makes sense. The only thing my parents really offered was housing and feeding me, now that I am independent they feel useless. I would still appreciate it if they could offer some emotional support, put any effort into knowing me or have a relationship at all, or had any accountability for what they failed to provide when I was a child, but I don't have any reason to believe that's going to happen.
 
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