I need some answers please!

I have some serious questions and I hope someone can help answer them or at least help me with some understanding.

We have been in recovery for 7 months now and things are going great in many ways, but there are things that are holding me back emotionally from my husband.

His P preference was teen P. He had 4 "favorites" that he watched for years apparently. Old videos before they grew up. He stopped at 18 since that was the legal age, but admitted that if 15 was legal he would have watched it too. Why do grown men want to watch kids?? They can be 14 as long as they "look" 18. I believe that even the legal age of 18 is still a child. When you have a daughter that is the same age as the kids your MO'ing to how can you do it? He was almost 60 and watching teenagers. How, why??? I just don`t understand and he says that he doesn`t either. Even the counselors avoid the questions I ask around this. Why does everyone seem to avoid this topic? I belive that it has a deeper meaning than it was just a preference. There`s a reason for a persons preference and I need some help with this one. Is there another man on here that is willing to be honest about this and help me to understand?

A very sad part for me is that I used to be triggered by all women, but now my strongest triggers are teenage girls. They can be 13 and if he`s with me a tremendous fear overwhelms me. Since he would look at all women in front of me for the whole 26 years I had no idea that his preference was teenagers. I saw him look at young girls and would point out that they were kids and he would act either like he wasn`t looking or he would say that I don`t know how old they were. It`s my opinion that in his mind he would make them 18 so he could "legally and morally look" at them. (I had no idea that he was watching P until 12/21) Now that I know that he had a million women at his fingertips and he chose to settle on four 18 year old children for years really bothers me deeply. I just can`t get past that. I need to have some kind of understanding.

I don`t know if any of this makes sense right now, my thoughts are swirling. I`m finding it hard to articulate my thoughts.

There are so many questions I have. How can you be with someone and not see them and not be with someone and "see" them? How can you touch someone and pretend that you are touching someone else? Isn`t it my body that you feel? How can you not feel me!? How can you not see me when I am the one that is right in front of you? How can you replace your wife physically when you`re having sex with her? Aren`t you just turning her into a living, breathing sex doll? Other than being a maid, landscaper, childcare, taxi, laundress and chef what was the purpose of the wife? Why was I kept around? It`s pretty obviouse now that I was nothing more than a convenience for him. I was a toy that was put on a shelf to be taken down and played with when he wanted and then put back to collect dust until the next time.
 
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Sammyjo

Active Member
I found this:
There are still strong sexual stereotypes and preferences promoted in our society; one of them is to promote the attractiveness of younger women and even under aged girls as energetic, youthful "virgins" who need a powerful and knowledgeable man in their life to introduce them to sexuality. In other cases, men who feel intimated or inadequate more generally by women their age find very young women and even teen girls less threatening; and their fantasies engage the young women/teens as accepting and grateful, rather than intimidating and possibly rejecting. Obviously, young teens are not in fact, fully developed in terms of secondary sex characteristics, so it is these other features e.g, presumed naiveté, lack of experience, adoration of older men, and prospects to dominate someone that attracts some men. https://www.justanswer.com/mental-health/41fv4-men-watch-teen-pornography-leave-husband-looking.html
I really hope some of the men will chime in on this and your other list of questions!
 

Blondie

Respected Member
Hey @My husband is an addict, I'm so sorry you're going through all of this.

These are good questions, and obviously, everyone might have a different answer to them, but I'll throw in my opinion.

Why do men like younger women? Well, that is an age-old question that must be answered with an age-old view of things and the world in particular.

Us men like younger women (18 year old teenagers in this particular question), because they're fertile and can have babies. This is literally the truth, and a truth no one ever dare mention these days, but a truth nonetheless. It's simply a biological fact, and I would presume a fact that goes often unconscious in men's thoughts when they appreciate "youthful beauty", but it's there nevertheless. Young women can have babies, period, women past forty cannot, thus, us men are attracted to younger women differently than we are to older women. Different doesn't necessarily mean better, but it is different. This in its essence isn't a "patriarchal" fact, nor necessarily a "misogynistic" fact - though I don't deny misogyny can play a role - it is just a fact of biology. And just as nature provided the different sexes of the animal kingdom with ways to attract the opposite sex (beautiful feathers, exotic tails and wonderful mating calls, etc.), well, nature or God, has done the same for us humans, making females more attractive in their younger years (that is, fertile years) to attract that special male for security and resources. And in in the olden days, security was everything, especially for women.

Obviously, this doesn't mean women aren't beautiful after 40, or, that women's only worth to society is their youthful beauty, but it does mean, that youthful beauty will not last forever, and anyone (man or woman) who acts and thinks they're just as hot in their forties or fifties as they were in their twenties is living in a total delusion. Brad Pitt might be sexy for a fifty something year old man, but notice how it's described, "Sexy FOR a fifty something man", it's acknowledged he's not in his prime anymore. Women would do well to understand that after forty they're NOT in the prime anymore either, at least not to us men in a biological sense. We might find you attractive, beautiful and smart (and a good man will!) but it's a different kind of attraction than the pure raw sexual attraction of someone in their 20s. I don't say any of these hard facts to excuse men for porn, cheating, or disrespectfully looking at women in public, I'm just stating the facts as I see them.

All men, ages 20 to 80, will always love and appreciate younger women, and if they deny this, they're probably just lying to you.

But now I will now address your question about your husband looking at 18 year old porn models and why this doesn't make sense to you. Besides what I just wrote above, there is another aspect that might help you understand us men and why we are the way we are. For most of history, both men and women married at an extremely young age (often 12 or 13!) and this has been the practice right up till modern times, as in the last 100 to 200 hundred years! This concept for us moderns is really hard for us to grasp, and we have a real hard time wrapping our minds around it. However, the fact remains, women were often married when they were in the teens (sometimes to much older men who would have the resources to protect them) and this is how it was for almost all cultures around the world. Life was cheep, death was everywhere, thus, we needed you women to start making babies as soon as physically possible. Interestingly, even the whole idea of "teenager" is a new concept that didn't even exist until recently. Thus, not too long ago: you were a baby, then a child, then somewhere around 12 or 14 you became a man or woman. This in-between period is simply a modern invention.

Thus, this basic attraction, yes, even for teenagers, is understandable in a basic evolutionary/biological sense. And if you're religious, well the Bible never disapproved of it either; there are many stories of teenagers getting married in the Bible, apparently, not even God had a problem with this custom! So even though modern laws and customs have changed when it comes to this matter (something I think is good), it must be understood, a 100 years of new legalities won't change millions of years of ancient biological formalities. Nature simply doesn't work that way, nor nearly that fast. Thus, although it's true, good men won't do anything illegal with teenagers (I sure as hell won't!), the idea that we wouldn't be attracted to them, at least in a physical sense, is only something the modern world would deem ridiculous or "perverted". I say all of this to say, I'm certainly not walking around checking out young teenagers or anything, please don't misunderstand me, all I'm saying is this: all of these things are modern ideas and concepts, and our biology has simply not caught up to it that's all.

As far you saying (along with many other women lol) that these "young porn girls" could practically be our daughters, I will simply say this, I've never understood this concept. I always laugh whenever a woman says this, because it makes no sense to me. It's like you're trying to accuse us men of incest or something, when none is to be found! Of course, I don't mean just you, I mean, women in general when they say this funny remark. These 18 year old "girls" are not our daughters, and in fact, legally, they're not even girls, they're adults. Society has proclaimed that these "girls" are old enough and mature enough to die for their country, drive a tank for their country, and yes, even vote in the next insane election. I'm not making fun of you ladies for saying things like this, but it is funny, and you can't possible think I can take it seriously. :cool: If an eighteen year old women can vote and fight in the army, then they are not children, they're adults, and us men (as long as it's consensual), can date them and be attracted to them. They may not be as "mature" as an older woman, but their not children, and if they are, then they certainly shouldn't be allowed to vote or die for their country. You women may not like this fact, but trust me, you women do many things as men don't like and cannot change! Nature as it seems, has the last laugh.

The reason porn is such a travesty to us men, is that it "gives" us the illusion that we really are with these young women, women that no ordinary 60 year old, 40 year old, or even 20 year old male could ever be with, thus, it's a total fantasy and not a reality. Most normal 40 year old men couldn't cheat on their wife with an 18 year old, but in porn, that Is a total possibility. Unless a man has the looks, status and fame of a George Clooney or Leonardo DiCaprio, this is simply not a reality for probably 99% of men. Most men are utterly average, thus, if they cheat (and many don't even have that option!), it would never be with an eighteen year old hottie! But porn makes these harsh truths turn into dust, as least momentarily. Fun fact, it's estimated that over the last 2000 years, 30% of men never even had a chance to reproduce. Why? Because women didn't find their looser seed worthy of having babies with them. A harsh truth, but a truth nonetheless. Women want the best man that will comment to them, and us men, well, at least for 99% of us, will take whatever we can get.

Porn is a poor man's version of being a King or a celebrity.

Nevertheless, a good man will love you, no matter your age, and just because he's attracted to young women, doesn't mean he's not attracted to you either. Trust me, I speak from experience! Also, the question might be asked, does porn warp this natural instinct in us men? Absolutely, and I know for myself, my world is many times less sexualized after getting off of it. Further, I appreciate all women much more, older and younger, and find them infinitely more amazing. You ladies really are the greatest thing.

Hopefully, I've explained why men are they way we are, at least how I see it. However, none of this gives us men any excuses to cheat, lie, or look at porn (Or, do illegal things with teenagers!) I'm only explaining it from a perspective of biology, which I think is very helpful in understanding the sexes and the differences between them. Obviously, this is a very essentialist view of biology and is at odds with modern ideas that sex and gender are two entirely different things. While I do agree that gender is somewhat of a cultural concept, and that it changes with time and different cultural expectations, in the end though, biology/God will always have a big say in the ways we act and behave with each other, especially when it comes to these matters!

Best to you and your husband.
 
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A lot of them talk about this, I've heard them talk about seeing high school girls and having to fight to not lust for them. I don't know how much this helps but I don't think what you're saying is uncommon. There has been talk about variety and escalation. There has been talk about people signing things to say they're 18.

If there is shame thats a good thing. It shows it's going against his conscience and he doesn't accept it or want it.

My opinion, men have biological drives that can be used in either a protective way or a predatory way. Consuming porn is a predatory way to use the drives. Lust is a predatory way to use the drives. But the drives aren't going away. My opinion, the drives are for a necessary and good purpose if they're used honorably. I've heard men say they remind themselves this is someone's daughter, sister, wife, etc. This is good because it puts that drive into protection mode.

Like I say, I don't know how much this helps but I doubt his case is uncommon - its just that he admitted it to you. Give yourself all the time and space you need. You don't have to be wonder woman.
Thank you for your response. He did not admit anything until completely cornered. He had lied to my face for months about what he looked at.. My gut knew, but he still continued to gaslight me until he had no choice but to tell me.. Even when he finally admitted it he had no shame about their ages. I had seen him for years checkout teenagers right in front of me.. He would always just tell me that I had no proof that they were teens let alone underage.
He says that he has shame now and knows now that it`s wrong, but my heart and head just can’t completely accept that… I need a better understanding.

I agree with your opinion of the drives. I have mentioned that to him in the past, but he always said that I was wrong and/or crazy. I`m sure that is very common which is why I was hoping that a man could help me to maybe understand some of it.. My husband isn’t very articulate and I don’t think he can be completely honest with himself or me about it, at least not yet And I can`t wait for the possibility that he may be someday.

It’s eating away at me and I need some answers.
 

Blondie

Respected Member
The reason porn is such a travesty to us men, is that it "gives" us the illusion that we really are with these young women, women that no ordinary 60 year old, 40 year old, or even 20 year old male could ever be with, thus, it's a total fantasy and not a reality. Most normal 40 year old men couldn't cheat on their wife with an 18 year old, but in porn, that Is a total possibility

Respectfully, no sir. The travesty is having the fantasy to begin with
Hey @me20221, I'm definitely not here to argue with anyone. However, I think we both agree, having fantasies are bullshit, either porn or otherwise.

Best
 
Society has proclaimed that these "girls" are old enough and mature enough to die for their country, drive a tank for their country, and yes, even vote in the next insane election. I'm not making fun of you ladies for saying things like this, but it is funny, and you can't possible think I can take it seriously. :cool: If an eighteen year old women can vote and fight in the army, then they are not children, they're adults, and us men (as long as it's consensual), can date them and be attracted to them. They may not be as "mature" as an older woman, but their not children, and if they are, then they certainly shouldn't be allowed to vote or die for their country. You women may not like this fact, but trust me, you women do many things as men don't like and cannot change! Nature as it seems, has the last laugh.
I was once an 18 year old girl. I married the first time at 16, had my first child at 17.. I know how stupid I was. I was no where near mature enough to be married and a mother by the age of 18. I understand that back in the day it was common for girls to marry at very young ages, but that was then.The times were different. They lived different lives that prepared them in different ways. Our society today does not prepare children for much of life at all. I had even grown up in a life that made me have to grow up quickly compared to others in modern times. Many abuses of all sorts, most by men that thought that my "young body" was sexy and that it made them verial to abuse it. I divorced at 20 and dated a 37 year old man that apparently thought he was getting old and had to "prove he still had it." His mental and emotional abuse was worse than some of the sexual abuses I had endured as a child. (as young as 3) Now, I believe that a grown man that wants a mental child is a predator. He can`t handle a woman that is smart enough to have her own thoughts and opinions. He is a mental midget. Our children aren`t even being taught how to balance a checkbook and that they can be whatever gender they want to be, but they are not being taught how to think for themselves or to have any morals and values anymore.
I understand that some, not all men are attracted to what are mental children and some actual children, but that does not make it right in todays society. We don`t live in times where it is exceptable for a 60 year old man to want a 14 year old girl. I believe in the biology of it, but I also believe that it cannot be used as an excuse for grown men to lust after children. I am not saying that all 18 year olds are literal children, but the vast majority now are MENTAL children. Just because something is legal doesn`t make it right.
Girls are being taught that they are nothing more than their bodies and boys are being taught that if they don`t watch porn and chase a body they aren`t being boys. (That`s aside from all of the other un natural things they`re being taught.) That`s why so many little girls and young immature girls are posting so many self depricating things on the internet. They are nothing more than their bodies!!
They may not be as "mature" as an older woman, but their not children, and if they are, then they certainly shouldn't be allowed to vote or die for their country.
If I was given the opprotunity to vote on changing the "legal" age of adult, I would! I would change it to more around 21. I was never consulted on the legal age. A group of politicains made that decision. It is all based on opinion and my opinion was never asked for. Again, legal age doesn`t make it ok. I have a grown sister that is literally about 12 mentally, many men have abused her sexually and by using her and manipulating her. Should they be looked at as innocent since she was physically over the legal age? Biology cannot be allowed to be an excuse for 60 year old men to lust after very young and mentally immature girls.
Nevertheless, a good man will love you, no matter your age, and just because he's attracted to young women, doesn't mean he's not attracted to you either.
Unfortunately, my husband was not attracted to me for about 20 years because of his porn use and sick obsesson with 18 year old and younger girls. There`s a difference between acknowledging a pretty person and lusting. He was lusting and it wasn`t right, there is no excuse.
appreciate "youthful beauty"
Appreciate doen`t have to include having sex with the, whether imagined or real.
anyone (man or woman) who acts and thinks they're just as hot in their forties or fifties as they were in their twenties is living in a total delusion.
I am in my 50`s and I can tell you that I don`t think I look as hot as I did at 20, but I must say that I am damn fine and not for a woman in her 50`s but because I am damn fine reguardless of age. My body shape is the same, my size is the same, sure my skin is different and my boobs aren`t as high as they used to be, but they aren`t hanging to my belly button either. Luckily, I wasn`t overly endowed so they can`t fall too far. What men told me was my short coming, (being smaller chested) turned out to be a good thing later in life. I am more muscular and fit than most 20 year olds I see and know.. I refuse to see my body as "less than" a 20 year olds body in anyway just because they were born later.
Hell, now a days you can`t even tell whats real on a lot of girls. Hair- fake, nails-fake, boobs-fake, eyelashes and eye brows-fake, boobs-fake, skin covered by layers of makeup-fake, butts are even fake. Girls are led to believe that if we don`t look a certain way that we are valueless. When you wash the makeup off, take all the stuffed clothes off (bras and butt pants), pull all of the fake eyelashes and nails off, you are ususally left with a very plain looking girl. And they (we) are and have been taught that we can`t be plain or we are worthless. Men do that by how they treat us. We, as human beings can be better than what we are and we can do better than biology. We can see eachother as beautiful human beings and more than just our bodies. I never loved a man because of what he looked like, I loved him for who he was or at least pretended to be. Hell, I never even wanted to just have sex with a man based solely on how he looked.
Best to you and your husband.
Thank you for taking the time to respond and for trying to help me answer my questions. I truly do appreciate it. I have always understood the biology of it, but there are also a very real moral and psycological parts of it too. It`s the moral and psychological parts that baffle me I guess. We are getting better, but we can`t get healed until this is dealt with one way or another.


Thank you, again!
 
The only thing I've been able to understand is that they compartmentalize it as a way to deal with their conscience.

I'm sorry about the triggers you're going through, take care of yourself ok.
Thanks again. I am working on my self and my self esteem from all of this. I was told my entire life that I wasn`t good enough, but when the man that promised to love you, charish you and respect you throws you away for little kids (of legal age he says) on the internet, it`s crushing. He claims that he couldn`t "see" me before but that he can now?? I don`t understand any of that. For 25 years he couldn`t "see" me?? He felt my body, but wasn`t "with me"??? He was touching me, feeling my skin, but was somehow "with them"??? How does someone move on when none of that is explained?
 
I personally think checking out other women right in front of you was very disrespectful no matter what their ages. I mean some women don’t mind but if he knew it bothered you then yes I would think that would be very disrespectful.

Saying you’re crazy just sounds like it was a cop out on his part. You’re far from crazy ok.
Everytime he looked at other women, no matter their ages, he was telling me that I wasn`t good enough. We started dating when I was 25 and he had to look at everything that walked by. He was looking at everyone else but couldn`t see me while a lot of the men were looking at me. He liked when other men noticed me. Now I understand that it was because I was a trophy. "Look what I have and you don`t." He saw me until he got me. He chased me relentlessly for almost 3 years and then after we married, I became invisible.
I wish I could go back and tell my younger self to run and not look back. It was the first sign that I wasn`t what he was looking for and that he didn`t respect me. I have since raised my daughter to not accept being second to anyone. If he looks in a disrespectful way, get rid of him. If he doesn`t show you absolute respect, get rid of him. If he doesn`t charish you, get rid of him. Don`t waste your life on someone that doesn`t think you are valuable enough to love and respect you in everyway. Subsequently, my grand daughter (11) is being taught the samethings by my daughter. My grandson (13) is being taught that girls are priceless and worthy of love and respect and that they are far more than just their bodies.

I`m not crazy, he was just a pervert that couldn`t admit it.
 

ImBroken

Member
This is just another perspective…

The “kink” of the porn addict has little to do with absolute wanting of that subject material. Teen girls, teen boys, transsexuals, incest, - I was really freaked out by the topics/material my husband was viewing daily when I found out on D Day. Then I was even more freaked out by what he was writing and publishing on these porn sites. I decided not to make the subject material my enemy. I know they are all fantasy for him - so that wasn’t a real threat to me - I have to admit that I have a good sense of self worth and high esteem. I got mad at the act - and knew that his “interests” were not the same when we first got together. Apparently the brain becomes resistant to the common P - and as they search for their “high” they must go to more variant forms to get their dopamine rush…
As a 33 sober person…I know my alcohol abuse and drug use got more severe as my resistance increased. Cocaine - Crack - Free Basing. MAYBE its the same for the P addict - Boobs (any boobs) - Swimsuit Models, Penthouse, Teen Girls ??? That is how I look at it.
I’m proud that on D-Day during my rage - I made it very clear that I would NEVER be or try to be what he was consuming thru P. I said, if he wanted that - get the fuck out now. I think it snapped him for a moment to reality. And that is what we are talking about here - Reality. NONE of their P revolved around Reality. Even if they partook in live conversation (cam guys/girls).

I don’t mean to be a Negative Nathan here - but We’re on day 43 of his recovery - and he is working it HARD - he is begging to keep the relationship in tact. I’m just not there…yet….if ever. The hurt damaged me so badly - I haven’t even thought about MY healing - I’m just putting clean bandages on the wounds…not treating them - So my marriage of 30 years may not make it. We’ve talked more in the past 42 days than we had previously - I have heard a lot of “UGLY” - but I have listened.

Please remember - this took me this long to own this statement - YOU DID NOTHING to bring about his addiction. It would have happened WITH or WITHOUT you. This is a disease like all others - it just manifested itself in the form of porn/sex addiction.

You have EVERY RIGHT to ask him to get real with himself - to be honest - to look at himself in the mirror. I can be honest in saying - I am trying to be as supportive as possible to him during his initial 90 days - I want him to be free of this for himself - not for me - not for us. And let’s face it - THE US - that we all hold onto (the good times, the love times) is permanently changed - it will never be the same - some choose to accept that and develop new levels of love with the addict - some choose to walk away and wish them well. I’m in between it all - I’m just not there yet. Through my eyes, I’m still so new to the pain - the betrayal - the willingness for him to throw it all away - I’m just here trying to support the most important person in my life (regardless of offense) get through day by day.

Oh how I wish there was a magic wand that could wipe the destructive thoughts away that ALL of us Signigicant Others go through - and we could focus and see clearly - there still are no answers for a lot of this. This forum has literally saved me from doing a lot of stupid shit - it is a lifeline for me - thanks for sharing your story - I learned and have grown from it. Xo Mike
 

TryingHarder

Well-Known Member
I always hesitate to answer threads from a partner of a rebooter, since I'm not in a relationship, but...

The reason porn is such a travesty to us men, is that it "gives" us the illusion that we really are with these young women, women that no ordinary 60 year old, 40 year old, or even 20 year old male could ever be with, thus, it's a total fantasy and not a reality. Most normal 40 year old men couldn't cheat on their wife with an 18 year old, but in porn, that Is a total possibility

To me, this really nails it. In real life, I generally do not look at any woman under the age of 30. When I do, a "stop it, you dirty old man" alarm sounds in my head. (I'm 53). But in the world of porn, the idea that somehow a young woman would want me is very seductive and powerful. In real life (and when I was looking at porn), looking at any woman who is under the age of 21 fills me with great discomfort. Teenagers? God, no. It's just wrong. But that's just me.

Do women fantasize about younger men? They must, or I would be very surprised if they don't. But since the greasy world of porn is 99% geared towards men, that's why porn is all about young women.
 

Blondie

Respected Member
I was once an 18 year old girl. I married the first time at 16, had my first child at 17.. I know how stupid I was. I was no where near mature enough to be married and a mother by the age of 18. I understand that back in the day it was common for girls to marry at very young ages, but that was then.The times were different. They lived different lives that prepared them in different ways. Our society today does not prepare children for much of life at all. I had even grown up in a life that made me have to grow up quickly compared to others in modern times. Many abuses of all sorts, most by men that thought that my "young body" was sexy and that it made them verial to abuse it. I divorced at 20 and dated a 37 year old man that apparently thought he was getting old and had to "prove he still had it." His mental and emotional abuse was worse than some of the sexual abuses I had endured as a child. (as young as 3) Now, I believe that a grown man that wants a mental child is a predator. He can`t handle a woman that is smart enough to have her own thoughts and opinions. He is a mental midget. Our children aren`t even being taught how to balance a checkbook and that they can be whatever gender they want to be, but they are not being taught how to think for themselves or to have any morals and values anymore.
I understand that some, not all men are attracted to what are mental children and some actual children, but that does not make it right in todays society. We don`t live in times where it is exceptable for a 60 year old man to want a 14 year old girl. I believe in the biology of it, but I also believe that it cannot be used as an excuse for grown men to lust after children. I am not saying that all 18 year olds are literal children, but the vast majority now are MENTAL children. Just because something is legal doesn`t make it right.
Girls are being taught that they are nothing more than their bodies and boys are being taught that if they don`t watch porn and chase a body they aren`t being boys. (That`s aside from all of the other un natural things they`re being taught.) That`s why so many little girls and young immature girls are posting so many self depricating things on the internet. They are nothing more than their bodies!!

If I was given the opprotunity to vote on changing the "legal" age of adult, I would! I would change it to more around 21. I was never consulted on the legal age. A group of politicains made that decision. It is all based on opinion and my opinion was never asked for. Again, legal age doesn`t make it ok. I have a grown sister that is literally about 12 mentally, many men have abused her sexually and by using her and manipulating her. Should they be looked at as innocent since she was physically over the legal age? Biology cannot be allowed to be an excuse for 60 year old men to lust after very young and mentally immature girls.

Unfortunately, my husband was not attracted to me for about 20 years because of his porn use and sick obsesson with 18 year old and younger girls. There`s a difference between acknowledging a pretty person and lusting. He was lusting and it wasn`t right, there is no excuse.

Appreciate doen`t have to include having sex with the, whether imagined or real.

I am in my 50`s and I can tell you that I don`t think I look as hot as I did at 20, but I must say that I am damn fine and not for a woman in her 50`s but because I am damn fine reguardless of age. My body shape is the same, my size is the same, sure my skin is different and my boobs aren`t as high as they used to be, but they aren`t hanging to my belly button either. Luckily, I wasn`t overly endowed so they can`t fall too far. What men told me was my short coming, (being smaller chested) turned out to be a good thing later in life. I am more muscular and fit than most 20 year olds I see and know.. I refuse to see my body as "less than" a 20 year olds body in anyway just because they were born later.
Hell, now a days you can`t even tell whats real on a lot of girls. Hair- fake, nails-fake, boobs-fake, eyelashes and eye brows-fake, boobs-fake, skin covered by layers of makeup-fake, butts are even fake. Girls are led to believe that if we don`t look a certain way that we are valueless. When you wash the makeup off, take all the stuffed clothes off (bras and butt pants), pull all of the fake eyelashes and nails off, you are ususally left with a very plain looking girl. And they (we) are and have been taught that we can`t be plain or we are worthless. Men do that by how they treat us. We, as human beings can be better than what we are and we can do better than biology. We can see eachother as beautiful human beings and more than just our bodies. I never loved a man because of what he looked like, I loved him for who he was or at least pretended to be. Hell, I never even wanted to just have sex with a man based solely on how he looked.

Thank you for taking the time to respond and for trying to help me answer my questions. I truly do appreciate it. I have always understood the biology of it, but there are also a very real moral and psycological parts of it too. It`s the moral and psychological parts that baffle me I guess. We are getting better, but we can`t get healed until this is dealt with one way or another.


Thank you, again!
Hi @My husband is an addict, I appreciate you writing back.

First I want to say, sorry to hear about all the unnecessary bullshit you've had to deal with in your life, that was really hard to read about. I can't imagine living through it. I can understand how many of those unfortunate experiences would affect your views about many of these pressing issues. I think it's always good to get a different perspective on things because it makes you grow and see things from another's worldview. I know at least for me, it keeps me grounded.

I can see we disagree on somethings, but in general, I think we actual do agree on most issues. As a rule, I don't argue with posters here at RN (not that I'm saying you were) it's just not professional and I see no point in doing it whatsoever. We're all here to quit porn and encourage those who are trying to quit, or, to encourage those partners of porn addicts etc. However, I will say a few things just to clarify my points, because I think I might of been slightly misunderstood.

Firstly, I was just talking in generalities. Why? because I think it's very helpful, and personally I like to do it! The problem with this though, is that sometimes a reader will think I'm actually talking to them, or about them, and they might take it personal, which was not my point at all. I'm not saying you took something personal, but if you did, please know, I wasn't talking about you or anyone else here, they were just generalizations and nothing more.

Secondly, and probably most important, I was definitely NOT condoning women getting married early. I know I didn't say that, but I want to make sure it's extra clear. I think it's a great that no one fourteen years old (or worse, twelve!) is getting married these days. I was just explaining the biology behind why us men are attracted to younger women that's all. And furthermore, when I say younger, I was thinking more along the lines of a sixteen year old who could pass for a eighteen or twenty year old; I most definitely wasn't talking about twelve or fourteens year old girls! I'm not saying you thought that, but I just want to make sure that's clear for anyone else reading. Maybe my argument came across as a little too amoral, but I was just trying to give a bird's-eye perspective about it and nothing more. I have an ability (or maybe a disability?) to talk about subjects like I'm literally an emotionless spectator who feels no empathy whatsoever, or worse, maybe comes across like I'm actually okay with it! But this isn't the truth of the matter at all, it's just me separating my feelings from the subject matter so I can be as rational and unbias as possible. Now, if I actually accomplish this feat is another matter entirely! However, it is a skill I wish more people would try to develop these days, but I've come to the conclusion that it's not everyone's cup of tea, and I'm okay with that. To each their own.

Thirdly, as @ImBroken and @me20221 rightly pointed out, I only talked about biology in this matter, but I hardly addressed the addiction part of this, which is really crucial. Many porn addicts found themselves watching and doing shit they never would have imagined they could do, but, there they were doing it. Furthermore, speaking for myself, the longer I've gotten away from all of this, the better and cleaner my thoughts have become. So yes, I could have handled your question writing an entire article from this perspective.

Fourthly, although I do agree that it would "great" if all men would just love women no matter how they looked, or what age or body shape they were, the fact of the matter is, we really can't change how people are, certainly not their biology. Both women and men do insane shit to each other, plus, have insane standards, and I don't think it's ever going to stop. There will always be men seeing women only as trophies (Though I don't agree that all men dating younger women always do that) and there will always be women who literally don't see even 90% of the men out there (Just look at Tinder statistics, it's insane!) But, that's just me being me again! ;)

Lastly, I absolutely agree with you. No eighteen year woman or man should be allowed to vote! Who the hell came up with this nonsense? I think thirty-five sounds about right. Looks like you'll be able to vote next year! :cool:

Best to you

Blondie
 
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absolute wanting of that subject material
My husband admitted that years ago he would have had sex with one of our daughter`s underage friends if he had been given the opportunity. She was NOT 17 either. She was jailbait for sure. If we were in public and teenagers were around, he had to look at them. He looked at just about every woman that was in eye sight, but teens were his must.
I know they are all fantasy for him
My husband admitted that the teenagers were his preferance in everyway, not just fantasy. That is what concerns me. I do love the way you are looking at the problem as a whole. It seems to be a very healthy way to approach this.
Reality. NONE of their P revolved around Reality.
I would have a much easier time with it if he had been looking at grown women, in porn and in real life and not using me and my body for 25 years to pretend in his mind that I was one of them. That part is soul crushing for me. I`m working hard to get past it but God does it hurt.
I don’t mean to be a Negative Nathan here - but We’re on day 43 of his recovery - and he is working it HARD - he is begging to keep the relationship in tact. I’m just not there…yet….if ever. The hurt damaged me so badly - I haven’t even thought about MY healing - I’m just putting clean bandages on the wounds…not treating them - So my marriage of 30 years may not make it. We’ve talked more in the past 42 days than we had previously - I have heard a lot of “UGLY” - but I have listened.
We are almost 7 months into recovery. We could have been much further had he been an adult and told the truth when the shit hit the fan, but he did the normal trickle shit. I didn`t get the whole truth until about 5 minutes before a polygraph. That was in September. I found out about his P in December 2021. We waited 2 weeks and he finally took the polygraph. I do know everything about certain subjects now and that is a relief, but it doen`t change the fact that I still see him as a liar. We are talking more than we ever have, he is being intimate with me in everyway now. I feel like he sees ME now when he looks at me. Not just in bed, but all the time now. I didn`t know that I married a man that was already very broken and in a fantasy even 26 years ago. I do love him and want to save our marriage if at all possible, but that isn`t a definite yet. I have figured out through all of this hell that I really do have to take care of me first. I do work everyday to work on myself, my self esteem and my value as a human being. I go to a psychiatrist, do EMDR and CBT each once a week. I also attend two groups. One of the groups is a couples of SA online group and the other is one where we start out together and then seperate into sexes and talk. Kind of like AA meetings. (Celebrate Recovery) I was all about "fixing" his problem in the beginning, now I`m about fixing myself.
You have EVERY RIGHT to ask him to get real with himself - to be honest - to look at himself in the mirror. I can be honest in saying - I am trying to be as supportive as possible to him during his initial 90 days - I want him to be free of this for himself - not for me - not for us. And let’s face it - THE US - that we all hold onto (the good times, the love times) is permanently changed - it will never be the same
I have and am supprting him in everyway I can, I`m just not sacrificing myself at the alter for it anymore. I also want my husband to get better for himself. He has always deserved much better than what he has given himself. He is a good man and deserves love and truth. I also deserve the same and if he can`t do that then he has to get the fuck out of my house and my life. He has made the last decision for my life without my consent that he will ever make.
Oh how I wish there was a magic wand that could wipe the destructive thoughts away that ALL of us Signigicant Others go through - and we could focus and see clearly - there still are no answers for a lot of this. This forum has literally saved me from doing a lot of stupid shit - it is a lifeline for me - thanks for sharing your story - I learned and have grown from it. Xo Mike
I wish that also. This thing that started as a choice became a monster when no one was looking. This forum is the first thing I found after our Dday and it was months after. It has helped me in many ways. I have made a really good friend and one that can relate to everything I am going through. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and opinions with me. It means a lot. Being vulnerable and opening up, even to strangers can be a dificult thing to do.
 
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First I want to say, sorry to hear about all the unnecessary bullshit you've had to deal with in your life, that was really hard to read about. I can't imagine living through it. I can understand how many of those unfortunate experiences would affect your views about many of these pressing issues. I think it's always good to get a different perspective on things because it makes you grow and see things from another's worldview. I know at least for me, it keeps me grounded.
Thank you. That`s why I`m here, to get a different perspective. I was hoping that someone could help me to understand. It isn`t always about fantasy. Some men really do want what they watch and then they go act on it. That`s why so many men end up in prison for child rape or molestation. (even a lot of women now too) I`m not saying that`s definitely my husband, but even he admitted that had the situation in our lives been different, it could have ended up being his life. This concerns me to my core!! He has recently started with a new therapist and is hoping to find out why, but I was hoping for a little help for myself now.
Firstly, I was just talking in generalities. Why? because I think it's very helpful, and personally I like to do it! The problem with this though, is that sometimes a reader will think I'm actually talking to them, or about them, and they might take it personal, which was not my point at all. I'm not saying you took something personal, but if you did, please know, I wasn't talking about you or anyone else here, they were just generalizations and nothing more.
Thanks, it did come across as more personal. I know logically it wasn`t, you don`t know me, it couldn`t have been as personal as it felt. I have read some of your replies on other things and knew that was just how you talk, but the hurt, emotional woman in me can be very sensative now. Maybe when you talk to the "other side" you might keep that in mind. We are severly damaged and are in need of kind, supporting words, and an understanding. I understand your points about logic and emotion, but a lot of us on this side are reeling from the trauma of all of this. Emotion is all we have sometimes, logic, hopefully, will come after the dust settles.
I have an ability (or maybe a disability?) to talk about subjects like I'm literally an emotionless spectator who feels no empathy whatsoever, or worse, maybe comes across like I'm actually okay with it! But this isn't the truth of the matter at all, it's just me separating my feelings from the subject matter so I can be as rational and unbias as possible. Now, if I actually accomplish this feat is another matter entirely! However, it is a skill I wish more people would try to develop these days, but I've come to the conclusion that it's not everyone's cup of tea, and I'm okay with that. To each their own.
I, on the other hand am a very emotional person. Not to mention the years of mental abuse I took from him was almost unbearable at times. The rejection, the insults, the being used physically while he was mentally with others. To have the man that said he would love, charish and honor you tell you to your face after 25 years that he never really saw you is absolutely devastating. The pain is unexplainable from this side. I am working on seperating the two, that`s why I`m still able to be with him. If I went solely on emotion with this issue we wouldn`t still be married and I sure wouldn`t be be on here. I would be living my life without him. I want my best life to be with him and for any chance at that I have to try my best to understand as much as I can. I will always be an emotional person and I wouldn`t change that, but I`m definitly working on my more logical side.
Thirdly, as @ImBroken and @me20221 rightly pointed out, I only talked about biology in this matter, but I hardly addressed the addiction part of this, which is really crucial. Many porn addicts found themselves watching and doing shit they never would have imagined they could do, but, there they were doing it. Furthermore, speaking for myself, the longer I've gotten away from all of this, the better and cleaner my thoughts have become. So yes, I could have handled your question writing an entire article from this perspective.
I understand the biology. I understand the nature of man, but that cannot be the deciding factor anymore for how we behave. I started dreaming of being a mom at 12. If I went by biology alone I would have had my first baby at 13! Thank God I resisted biology. Most men I know couldn`t even imagine "wanting" or looking at such young girls in that way. The only ones I know and have known to do that are the ones that need(ed) serious help. They are/were sick in more ways than one. I mean that literally. Normal, healthy men don`t want to be with children Yes, I see anyone under the age of 23 as children. Not all are, but the vast majority are mentally. Just because you look like an adult or are 18 doesn`t make you and adult. Just being legal cannot be the gauge for what is morally right.
Fourthly, although I do agree that it would "great" if all men would just love women no matter how they looked, or what age or body shape they were, the fact of the matter is, we really can't change how people are, certainly not their biology. Both women and men do insane shit to each other, plus, have insane standards, and I don't think it's ever going to stop. There will always be men seeing women only as trophies (Though I don't agree that all men dating younger women always do that) and there will always be women who literally don't see even 90% of the men out there (Just look at Tinder statistics, it's insane!) But, that's just me being me again! ;)
Have you ever noticed an older couple that has been married for years and they look at eachother with love and adoration? That`s because they grew TOGETHER. His body changed over time, her body changed over time and as they loved eachother over the years they loved eachothers bodies as they changed. The changes are gradual and because of that they never really noticed the little changes day by day. They just loved eachother as they were everyday. That`s the love I want. That`s the love I deserve. Hell, that`s the love we all deserve!
People in general don`t really see eachother anymore. They see bodies, they don`t look inside a person anymore.
When I met my husband I was not physically attracted to him at all. He wasn`t the body I wanted, but after three years of him hanging around and being who he knew I wanted, I ended up loving him. He admits to a lot of pretending, (He was already a SA, but didn`t know it.) He pretented to be everything that I was looking for in a man just so he could have sex with me. Three years he pretended in a lot of ways, but I know that there was still a great man in there. When I said "I do" I literally had a flash of us old together. I had never felt that before with anyone. That`s why I held on for 25 years.
I agree with you on the women now. Many have become just as cold and shallow as men. They think they deserve better than they actually do. They have multiple kids with multiple men and still want the "perfect" man. Many men get short changed now by women that have been taught to use their bodies to get what they want. If they were honest with themselves, the women that reject men based soley on looks would admit that they are very immature and insecure inside.
I also agree that not every older man dating/marrying younger women see them as trophies, but the majority do. I have seen it and expierienced it many times in my life. Men are taught that they are "special" if they can get a young girl. It`s my opinion that most, not all of those men are also very immature and insecure inside. Now, That`s just me being me. :);)
Lastly, I absolutely agree with you. No eighteen year woman or man should be allowed to vote! Who the hell came up with this nonsense? I think thirty-five sounds about right. Looks like you'll be able to vote next year! :cool:
Thirty-five sounds perfect and yes, I`ll finally be able to vote next year. :ROFLMAO:

Thank you for talking with me. I appreciate it and your time. Take care.
 
I always hesitate to answer threads from a partner of a rebooter, since I'm not in a relationship, but...



To me, this really nails it. In real life, I generally do not look at any woman under the age of 30. When I do, a "stop it, you dirty old man" alarm sounds in my head. (I'm 53). But in the world of porn, the idea that somehow a young woman would want me is very seductive and powerful. In real life (and when I was looking at porn), looking at any woman who is under the age of 21 fills me with great discomfort. Teenagers? God, no. It's just wrong. But that's just me.

Do women fantasize about younger men? They must, or I would be very surprised if they don't. But since the greasy world of porn is 99% geared towards men, that's why porn is all about young women.
It`s the alarm not sounding in my husbands head that scares me. The thought that nothing in his head told him it was wrong to look at teens is very concerning to me. He not only watched them in porn, but had to look at them very grossly in real life!! It`s just not healthy or morally right. We have a eleven year old grand daughter that is physically maturing very fast and "looks" like she`s about 15-16. The thought of grown ass men looking at her like that makes me sick to my stomach. When my daughter was a teen it would infuriate me to see grown men look at her. I would call them out on the spot! I hope that I made at least one of them think about how wrong what they were doing was. They are children, no matter how old they look.

Now, do women fantasize about younger men? I`m sure some do, especially those that started families when they were very young and never enjoyed a single life before that. (In my opinion and experience.) Not all of them, but I would guess that a lot of the ones that do had the above experience. My mother as an example, she married my dad at 15. She had children at the ages of 15, 16, 18, 21, 23, 25 and 27. So she had 7 kids by the time she was 27. When she finally divorced my drunk, SA, abusive father after 26 years of hell, she went into a phase of being a teenager. She went to short miniskirts, lots of makeup, dating younger men and acting like a teenager in many ways. She regressed to the kid she never got to be. It was a phase that lasted some years. She finally changed because my brother became a widower with 3 kids at the age of 36 and they needed her help. She moved in with them and that life stopped.
In short, yes, some women do fantasize about younger men, but not that many. We tend to fantasize about a man that loves us, wants us and will treat us with love, kindness, dignity and respect.

Thank you for your response, I appreciate it. :)
 

Sammyjo

Active Member
In short, yes, some women do fantasize about younger men, but not that many. We tend to fantasize about a man that loves us, wants us and will treat us with love, kindness, dignity and respect.
EXACTLY!

I would like to add that since D Day my husband as spent an inordinate amount of time pointing out other men to me and asking if I find them attractive (not that any amount of time doing this would be ordinary, but he's trying to prove a point.). Since we became "exclusive" I've had blinders on. I just plain don't notice other men, now if someone points someone out and says something like "doesn't he have great abs?", I obviously can see he has great abs, or is good looking in general, but I don't observe on my own. He doesn't believe me. I think this is my natural state when in a relationship, I was the same way with old boyfriends. (I think it's a form of respect and not introducing any reason for the other person to feel like the relationship could be jeopardized.) As for him looking, after what he's put me through there is no room left for the 2 second rule. Either you want me or you don't. Perhaps not realistic, but I'm certain if I spent several years ogling other men in bars, restaurants, on beaches, in the grocery store...in front of him while not hearing a word he's saying, he wouldn't be feeling too good about himself or the status of our marriage.

Anyway, back to the original topic. Since he has been trying to force this idea on me, when I go to the gym, I purposefully try to make this mental connection. There are plenty of late teens/early 20's there, and my mind just says NO, they're younger than my son. I believe this is called boundaries.

I also believe society has given men permission to ogle anything of the opposite sex. Look back to when Calvin Klein put a 15 year old Brooke Shields in sexy poses. Not to mention how does that young girl feel when she sees an old man ogling her. Not comfortable I can assure you.
 
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Blondie

Respected Member
I have read some of your replies on other things and knew that was just how you talk, but the hurt, emotional woman in me can be very sensative now. Maybe when you talk to the "other side" you might keep that in mind. We are severly damaged and are in need of kind, supporting words, and an understanding. I understand your points about logic and emotion, but a lot of us on this side are reeling from the trauma of all of this. Emotion is all we have sometimes, logic, hopefully, will come after the dust settles.
Hi @My husband is an addict, thanks for this. I understand your point.

Logic and emotions, where's the balance? I never know, I feel I'm not gifted in that area, however, I'll keep that in mind next time. :cool:

Best to you.
 

Sammyjo

Active Member
Logic and emotions, where's the balance?
It is a tricky one!

Emotions seem to bowl over the logic, and (for me) I hit a point of emotional exhaustion and then logic starts to find an opening. Sure would be nice if logic took precedence. Working on it as we speak!
 

Gracie

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
I think the whole emotion logic thing comes down to some points. We thought, as partners, that we were indeed partners in our marriage. I feel many of us felt that both of us in the marriage would love and care for each other. Many of us that had been through things in our families or relationships have carefully chosen our life partner. We may have told them things about ourselves no one knew. We have went through our time and life with someone we thought had our back all day every day. Then we find out that this porn addiction has been a focus of theirs for a long time. We find out as we go through menopause, our bodies changing in a world that hold us to an impossible standard mostly centered around physical looks. My husband would always say prior to Dday he remembered me at 18. A lot. That stopped once we talked. But when this addiction remains hidden and goes on for a long time. We feel tricked. Not a great feeling. I still have trouble breathing when I think about it.
 
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