So I ventured into self pleasure without any porn or fantasy. And I was able to do it without any trouble. no PIED. It was very difficult to feel what I was feeling, but it was not shame. It felt familiar the second day and it scared me. I am going to take a week or so to really feel what I understood. let me know your feedback.
My trial again
- Thread starter in_search
- Start date
TakeActionNow
Respected Member
The only "pleasures" I allow myself these days are from
1. Recognizing self achievements
2. Gratitude from receiving benefits through the continuous contribution of others or nature
3. Giving and receiving love and recognition from others
4. Enjoining happiness and laughter with others
I don't call them pleasures. I call it reward. There needs to be effort before receiving.
MO without P is still dangerous stuff.
It is reward without effort
It is stimulation without partner.
It still releases a ton of dopamine
It still creates refractory downtime periods that may be depressive and demotivational.
It is physical stimulation, so the penis is sensitized and will want more.
Try to learn to gain all your happiness from these four items first. At first it may taste like water when you've been drinking coke all your life. But coke give one diabetes. And water after you drink it long enough will always feel better. Hot cold crisp flavored. Up to you.
Pied, sex, erections are actually all unimportant stuff. We only think and make it so. Really important is being happy with oneself. Get that sorted and life will be sweet no matter what.
You've got this!
1. Recognizing self achievements
2. Gratitude from receiving benefits through the continuous contribution of others or nature
3. Giving and receiving love and recognition from others
4. Enjoining happiness and laughter with others
I don't call them pleasures. I call it reward. There needs to be effort before receiving.
MO without P is still dangerous stuff.
It is reward without effort
It is stimulation without partner.
It still releases a ton of dopamine
It still creates refractory downtime periods that may be depressive and demotivational.
It is physical stimulation, so the penis is sensitized and will want more.
Try to learn to gain all your happiness from these four items first. At first it may taste like water when you've been drinking coke all your life. But coke give one diabetes. And water after you drink it long enough will always feel better. Hot cold crisp flavored. Up to you.
Pied, sex, erections are actually all unimportant stuff. We only think and make it so. Really important is being happy with oneself. Get that sorted and life will be sweet no matter what.
You've got this!
Thanks for this @TakeActionNow. Like 'some' people can consume P without getting addicted, I guess some people can MO without getting 'addicted'. What I understood since yesterday, thinking about this experience, is that I need to ask - am I ok sharing it with my partner, is what I am doing relational, is there any secrecy element in it? If I have any doubts on any of these, I need to leave it behind due to my history of impulsivity to compulsivity transition. I am going to keep away from it till I am comfortable with my understanding and sharing it.
The points you described truly make sense to me. Self respect, gratitude, love are habits that one has to invest in (like we invested in the P habit), work towards to feel them. And they make me feel so much whole than I have ever felt. My life from outside is not significantly different, but I know I am slightly different inside. My gaze is no longer looking for the next hit anymore. There is some level of content coming in. It is still a work in progress. An year ago, I was sure that I could possibly abstain from P, but those images I had seem for years will not go away from my mind, the urge to see them will not die. And it was difficult, but I can say with 100 % certainty that those urges to see P and those flashback of images in mind have reduced considerably in frequency. Reboot truly helps and is more powerful when we are looking to mend our ways, our thinking and our intension. I am very hopeful these days and so grateful for all the support here, along with the insights. I love the coke vs water analogy!
Counter 2
The points you described truly make sense to me. Self respect, gratitude, love are habits that one has to invest in (like we invested in the P habit), work towards to feel them. And they make me feel so much whole than I have ever felt. My life from outside is not significantly different, but I know I am slightly different inside. My gaze is no longer looking for the next hit anymore. There is some level of content coming in. It is still a work in progress. An year ago, I was sure that I could possibly abstain from P, but those images I had seem for years will not go away from my mind, the urge to see them will not die. And it was difficult, but I can say with 100 % certainty that those urges to see P and those flashback of images in mind have reduced considerably in frequency. Reboot truly helps and is more powerful when we are looking to mend our ways, our thinking and our intension. I am very hopeful these days and so grateful for all the support here, along with the insights. I love the coke vs water analogy!
Counter 2
TakeActionNow
Respected Member
If you've ever done breath meditation, you will come to observe that the mind is like a river, with ideas bubbling up to the surface constantly without purpose or direction.
And the point about meditation, is to observe this phenomenon, and not get attached or involved with the ideas, and go back to your focus on breath.
The meditation teaches you the nature of the mind. It is not as most will think... Under our control. It is very much like watching old school tv, the images being random commercials that pop up now and then. It is not telling you what to do. It is merely being itself.
I tell you this for 2 reasons:
1. That those images you think of appear because of this nature
2. That decision to be attached or involved with those images are purely up to you.
For me when this phenomenon happens, I tell myself, ah ha brain, you're popping up photos from the photo album again. Thanks. But let me get back to what I'm doing.
These images are not different than other images, like something you did during last year's vacation somewhere far away and interesting. Do you plan on going back again? Probably no right? Let the river flow on by.
And the point about meditation, is to observe this phenomenon, and not get attached or involved with the ideas, and go back to your focus on breath.
The meditation teaches you the nature of the mind. It is not as most will think... Under our control. It is very much like watching old school tv, the images being random commercials that pop up now and then. It is not telling you what to do. It is merely being itself.
I tell you this for 2 reasons:
1. That those images you think of appear because of this nature
2. That decision to be attached or involved with those images are purely up to you.
For me when this phenomenon happens, I tell myself, ah ha brain, you're popping up photos from the photo album again. Thanks. But let me get back to what I'm doing.
These images are not different than other images, like something you did during last year's vacation somewhere far away and interesting. Do you plan on going back again? Probably no right? Let the river flow on by.
TakeActionNow
Respected Member
P, M and O are all pleasurable with some different aspects.
P is mental stimulation.
Dopamine drips and pleasure, desire, attachment and motivation are generated
M is physical stimulation. Dopamine drips and pleasure and sensations are generated. Penis might become sensitized for long periods after event, leading to more repeated interactions.
O is chemical release. Dopamine floods, motivation ceases, refractory begins, other chemicals like prolactin are released and the body enters a different state. Normally oxytocin released is to form relationship bonds, but a black screen and absense of partner creates a dark impression of being unloved and undesirableness. Loneliness creeps in.
Prolong P exposure, M edging and excessive O all cause neurotransmitter burnout when hightened pleasure is sustained for too long and dopamine drips extraordinarily long.
Neurotransmitter burnout leads to lower than baseline neuro transmitter levels, leading to lack of motivation, negativity and depression.
This black hole is PMO created and can be restored if PMO is halted for some time. The body takes time to heal. 90 days abstinence is the suggested timeframe. That time must also be used to restore pleasure relationships with natural environment so happiness is normalized. Else PMO will take over the pleasure vacuum quickly.
Addiction is a matter of desire. Once introduced no one can forget. The option is always open now. That is why it is very important not to engage with any form of vice substances or activity ever.
Don't bother with what others do or believe, take care of your own self first.
P is mental stimulation.
Dopamine drips and pleasure, desire, attachment and motivation are generated
M is physical stimulation. Dopamine drips and pleasure and sensations are generated. Penis might become sensitized for long periods after event, leading to more repeated interactions.
O is chemical release. Dopamine floods, motivation ceases, refractory begins, other chemicals like prolactin are released and the body enters a different state. Normally oxytocin released is to form relationship bonds, but a black screen and absense of partner creates a dark impression of being unloved and undesirableness. Loneliness creeps in.
Prolong P exposure, M edging and excessive O all cause neurotransmitter burnout when hightened pleasure is sustained for too long and dopamine drips extraordinarily long.
Neurotransmitter burnout leads to lower than baseline neuro transmitter levels, leading to lack of motivation, negativity and depression.
This black hole is PMO created and can be restored if PMO is halted for some time. The body takes time to heal. 90 days abstinence is the suggested timeframe. That time must also be used to restore pleasure relationships with natural environment so happiness is normalized. Else PMO will take over the pleasure vacuum quickly.
Addiction is a matter of desire. Once introduced no one can forget. The option is always open now. That is why it is very important not to engage with any form of vice substances or activity ever.
Don't bother with what others do or believe, take care of your own self first.
This is exactly what happened with my 90 day reboot last year. I was simply waiting for 90 days to get over. There was a vacuum which I fell in right after that period. This time I did work on some of what you have described here. And this time was perceptively different. Thanks for the insights and detailed explanations. They make a lot of sense! Thanks.