Your partner can have real intimacy again

[Daybyday1988]

Just wanted to share some information i found. This is an article on the coolidge effect. basically addicts have been trapped in the dopamine-based reward circuitry with regard to intimacy. but the good news is that neural circuitry can naturally rewire back to the Oxytocin based circuitry (normal intimacy that is focused on pair bonding and not new novel excitement like the dopamine based). Here is the article:

Couples Sex Retreat | Sex Therapy Retreat - Couples Therapy

Book a private couples sex retreat with a clinical psychologist to enhance sexuality and intimacy in your marriage. Science-based sex therapy retreats.

www.couplestherapyinc.com

the key takeaway point of the article that i want you to get is this:

"There’s ample evidence that the more you employ and enjoy bonding behaviors, the more sensitive your brain becomes to the neurochemicals (such as Oxytocin) that help you to feel loving and intimately connected. (In contrast, intense Dopamine stimulation promotes increasing levels of tolerance. Oxytocin promotes increasing levels of sensitivity, bonding, and connection, while Dopamine requires greater and more intense “hits” to get the same level of impact."

always open to talk and offer support to anyone.

 

[Blondie]

How you doing @Daybyday1988? Haven't seen you in a while.

Best brother

 

[joepanic]

Very interesting article, In essence the addict really does need intimate bonding to help in their recovery. I wonder if there will ever be statistics regarding the success rate of recovery between those who receive that intimate bonding and those who don't.

 

[Daybyday1988]

How you doing @Daybyday1988? Haven't seen you in a while.

Best brother

hey blondie,

been pretty busy lately so havent been on. my wife just gave birth to our son a little over a week ago so its been kind of non stop supporting a newborn and her. kid is a milk fiend! thanks for asking my man, how you doing?

Very interesting article, In essence the addict really does need intimate bonding to help in their recovery. I wonder if there will ever be statistics regarding the success rate of recovery between those who receive that intimate bonding and those who don't.

I'm sure the intimate bonding would be a quicker way to recovery, I suppose that is basically what we mean when we use the term "rewiring" on the forums. There are success stories i have seen that utilize mostly just the weakening of the dopamine related circuitry through abstaining from PMO so that the naturally occurring oxytocin based pathways become stronger and more prevalent. There's at least one I know of in "success stories" here on Reboot Nation by Hockey14 but I'm sure there are other guys out there that just abstained and recovered. the main point i wanted the partners of addicts to know is that the addict can recover and have normal intimacy again with enough time away from PMO.

Now will there be any solid stats proving the success rates with and without intimate bonding in recovery? Not really hopeful to be honest. With this issue it is more than likely always going to be anecdotal or survey based evidence since there are so many variables that differ amongst addicts (exposure time, masturbation style/ frequency, type of material, previous sexual experience, how deep the pathways are etc).

 

[Blondie]

Hi @Daybyday1988. Congratulations on the birth of your son, that is amazing.

I'm doing just fine, thanks.

Now will there be any solid stats proving the success rates with and without intimate bonding in recovery? Not really hopeful to be honest. With this issue it is more than likely always going to be anecdotal or survey based evidence since there are so many variables that differ amongst addicts (exposure time, masturbation style/ frequency, type of material, previous sexual experience, how deep the pathways are etc).

I definitely agree with this. I think a lot of this will always be somewhat anecdotal because of the nature of so many different variables and experiences. I do think that we all can get "there" though and enjoy the promise land, however we define "there" for us and our partners.

Best man, and congrats again.

 

[Gracie]

So our partner can have real intimacy again? I do not think that is the issue. The issue is the withdrawal from the marriage, the emotional abandonment of the family, the inability to talk about what the hell happened etc. The fact that we find ourselves pretty much in an emotional desert. Truthfully I was not sure at any given time the first two years post d-day that we would make it as a couple leaving intimacy out. I was not worried about intimacy, I was worried about staying alive. Yes it was that dark. I wanted him to answer why it took the place of our intimacy. I wanted him to talk. I had never felt so alone in my life. But, as I have said before I loved him. And worked hard at our marriage. But some of us cannot wait for intimacy to return.

 

[Daybyday1988]

So our partner can have real intimacy again? I do not think that is the issue. The issue is the withdrawal from the marriage, the emotional abandonment of the family, the inability to talk about what the hell happened etc. The fact that we find ourselves pretty much in an emotional desert. Truthfully I was not sure at any given time the first two years post d-day that we would make it as a couple leaving intimacy out. I was not worried about intimacy, I was worried about staying alive. Yes it was that dark. I wanted him to answer why it took the place of our intimacy. I wanted him to talk. I had never felt so alone in my life. But, as I have said before I loved him. And worked hard at our marriage. But some of us cannot wait for intimacy to return.

My condolences for the hurt you've experienced, but this post was to try and share some optimism illustrating that these pathways and thought patterns can go back to a healthy normal with abstinence.

Therefore, the partner of the addict can be encouraged that intimacy can be normal with their significant other, providing the addict is actually abstaining.

This post wasn't an attempt at eluding therapy, obfuscating blame that the addict bears, or the necessity to heal the wounds in relationship caused by the behavior.

 

[joepanic]

So our partner can have real intimacy again? I do not think that is the issue. The issue is the withdrawal from the marriage, the emotional abandonment of the family, the inability to talk about what the hell happened etc. The fact that we find ourselves pretty much in an emotional desert. Truthfully I was not sure at any given time the first two years post d-day that we would make it as a couple leaving intimacy out. I was not worried about intimacy, I was worried about staying alive. Yes it was that dark. I wanted him to answer why it took the place of our intimacy. I wanted him to talk. I had never felt so alone in my life. But, as I have said before I loved him. And worked hard at our marriage. But some of us cannot wait for intimacy to return.

Actually the issue here is for addicts to reboot and find a way to give their partners they intimacy that they deserve in a relationship. To move forward in togetherness. To understand what went wrong and help their partner understand what went wrong in their lives as well as understand the effect on a partner which most do understand. We are reminded of it on a regular basis by you Gracie. So yes i think most understand the effect on a partner and want to make it right otherwise we would not be here

cheers

Post often it helps me it helps you

 

[Daybyday1988]

i think most understand the effect on a partner and want to make it right otherwise we would not be here

Exactly correct. Speaking from experience, P addicts arent out to hurt or end meaningful relationships. they want to repair them but often struggle to abstain from the addiction, so we come here for help.

 

[Gracie]

I guess I am saying hopping back on the physical intimacy bandwagon is not the foremost concern or thought in our head. What is the foremost thoughts for most is the why it occurred. Why someone or multiple someones in video form won out over a live human being. Then next comes has the addict actually physically been with another? We know they weren’t with us. So the physical intimacy ends up way down the list. For some the marriage appears to be one big calculated lie.

 

[Daybyday1988]

I guess I am saying hopping back on the physical intimacy bandwagon is not the foremost concern or thought in our head. What is the foremost thoughts for most is the why it occurred. Why someone or multiple someones in video form won out over a live human being. Then next comes has the addict actually physically been with another? We know they weren’t with us. So the physical intimacy ends up way down the list. For some the marriage appears to be one big calculated lie

Perhaps you didn't read the latter half of my response above so I'm going to copy and paste it here for you. Have a great day.

"This post wasn't an attempt at eluding therapy, obfuscating blame that the addict bears, or the necessity to heal the wounds in relationship caused by the behavior."

 

[joepanic]

I guess I am saying hopping back on the physical intimacy bandwagon is not the foremost concern or thought in our head. What is the foremost thoughts for most is the why it occurred. Why someone or multiple someones in video form won out over a live human being. Then next comes has the addict actually physically been with another? We know they weren’t with us. So the physical intimacy ends up way down the list. For some the marriage appears to be one big calculated lie.

I don't think he was saying in any way that physical intimacy was 1st and foremost in his original post. just merrily that it helps. You are the one that drew the conclusion that it is the foremost concern for us "male" addicts. You can think all you want we "chose" someone on a video over a live person. it goes to show you have learned nothing about what it means to be an addict because rest assured we didnt want to spend all that time on a screen. otherwise we would not be here. As for "some" marriages appearing to be a big calculated lie (and some being the key word here) that is the 1st fair statement i have heard you say in a long time

 

[Daybyday1988]

I don't think he was saying in any way that physical intimacy was 1st and foremost in his original post

This is accurate. I didn't say intimacy was the most important thing nor did I even insenuate it.

rest assured we didnt want to spend all that time on a screen.

Again, accurate. I would wager that the vast majority of addicts really had no idea at the start of their P usage that there are harmful effects of P use, and that it could become addictive, ruin their relationships, and wreck their sexual health. I know that's certainly the case for me. There is still not nearly enough awareness about the dangers of P addiction.

 

[Gracie]

How about this, when you have been betrayed by your significant other of decades, replaced by young naked people having sex and their hand. And you knew nothing. And that person slowly turned into someone you really no longer recognized. And your kids asked what is wrong with him. And did not inter act with your children anymore and laid in your bed when you were gone and masturbated to their hearts content. And then you are so decimated you feel like not living anymore and you can’t get it together to go to work. Then come here and comment about he can have intimacy again. If we stay, he better be able to get it together and have intimacy or we are out the door.

 

[joepanic]

How about this, when you have been betrayed by your significant other of decades, replaced by young naked people having sex and their hand. And you knew nothing. And that person slowly turned into someone you really no longer recognized. And your kids asked what is wrong with him. And did not inter act with your children anymore and laid in your bed when you were gone and masturbated to their hearts content. And then you are so decimated you feel like not living anymore and you can’t get it together to go to work. Then come here and comment about he can have intimacy again. If we stay, he better be able to get it together and have intimacy or we are out the door.

You miss the point. Most addicts (please see men) know all of the above. The fact is Gracie you believe intimacy is the 1st and only thing on our minds when trying to straighten ourselves out. When in fact it is not. The mere fact that an addict(man) would even mention intimacy sends you down the old "all an addict is looking for is to get his rocks off" rabbit hole every time. Nothing is further from the truth. You might not believe it but we don't want to look at hours of naked women on a screen having sex our hands "to our hearts content". We never wanted to in the 1st place. And of course some of us did not neglect our partners(wives and girlfriends) and children or even betray them as some of us have partners(wives and girlfriends) who knew about our porn use and understood so there was no betrayal there. if your man(addict) could not get it together I would most certainly expect you to leave. if I was still an addict and got it together and my partner(wife or girlfriend) could not forgive me I would most certainly leave also. Porn addiction is a sickness and needs to be thought of as one.

 

[Daybyday1988]

How about this, when you have been betrayed by your significant other of decades, replaced by young naked people having sex and their hand. And you knew nothing. And that person slowly turned into someone you really no longer recognized. And your kids asked what is wrong with him. And did not inter act with your children anymore and laid in your bed when you were gone and masturbated to their hearts content. And then you are so decimated you feel like not living anymore and you can’t get it together to go to work. Then come here and comment about he can have intimacy again. If we stay, he better be able to get it together and have intimacy or we are out the door.

Gracie, this line of logic is fallacious, and is known as an "ad-hominem". I've attached a picture of the argument pyramid so that the discourse can stay more respectful, which would be more in step with what the conduct of a moderator on an important forum such as this one should be. If you have a problem with an argument presented, try refuting the central point instead of being on the lower parts of the pyramid.

The ad hominem comes when you attack someone's ability to comment on a topic simply because they do not share the same personal experience as you. It is the same line of argument as saying that a doctor can't treat cancer because he has never had it himself.

What I have gathered from your comments is that you are still very hurt by your partner, and that hurt causes you to view addicts as oppressors and the partners as the oppressed or victims. I caution you against this type of disposition, as it only pits two people against one another by resentment rather than uniting them in the common goal to eradicate the behavior and enjoy full intimacy together (which is much more than just sexual intimacy).

Please be better

 

[Blondie]

@Gracie, have you even read what this thread or article is about? It has nothing to do with what you're talking about.

We can all disagree with each other about this and that, but this is making you look really bad and unprofessional, because you keep going on about something that is not even here.

Apologies @Daybyday1988, I used this thread a few weeks back just to reach out to you and say hello, and now you get this.

Best brother, I hope your son is doing well.

 

[Daybyday1988]

@Gracie, have you even read what this thread or article is about? It has nothing to do with what you're talking about.

We can all disagree with each other about this and that, but this is making you look really bad and unprofessional, because you keep going on about something that is not even here.

Apologies @Daybyday1988, I used this thread a few weeks back just to reach out to you and say hello, and now you get this.

Best brother, I hope your son is doing well.

thanks brother i appreciate you and all you've contributed to this community. keep up the great work and thanks for reaching out