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Bibbity

Active Member
It's ALWAYS easier to blame the other person for perceived faults than it is to face your own.  Rationalization is the addicts ally.  I wonder what Tiger Woods was rationalizing to himself when he cheated on his intelligent model wife?  It really has nothing to do with us.  The mind has a great way to rationalize behaviour for an addict.  Those men whose journals you read are still in denial about why they are failing at sex and relationships.  It's easier to say "she's not hot enough" than it is to say "I'm afraid of intimacy with a woman".

STR it's so great to hear that your wife has opened up sexually to you.  We often open up to men we know we can trust.  It's an intuitive thing.  I'm a pretty spiritual person and I have read that sex can suddenly become painful if a woman is having sex with someone she doesn't trust.  I can attest to this in my own marriage.  Thankfully we are now having the hot and steamy sex we both always wanted but it certainly doesn't look like a porno and I'm grateful for that ;)
 

Gracie

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Thank you for your insight STR.  It helps to know that there are people here that get what I am saying.  I went through a bad time health wise right before my discovery of his porn use.  I did not have the strength to put make up to go to work.  One of the first things he said post discovery was I should wear make up every day.  He knew it was a health issue but did not care at that time.  Now, he is very remorseful that he ever would think of saying that. This shows the porn mind at work.  There were times he looked at me with the most dislike I had ever seen.  It literally looked like a demon was looking at me.  Very scary.  Those were the most painful times ever in our marriage. 

That is why when I see the remarks about wives I try to speak up.  The wife is dealing with something she has never encountered before.  Whether she knows or not.  That is because her husband is a different being.  Think of your marriage as a spinning top.  It is all balanced and spinning along nicely.  Then porn comes in and it still spins but it is a little wobbly not quite centered.  Then as porn continues it wobbles more.  We wives get knocked off balance as well and we are wobbly.  It takes time to get it spinning again.

Lte, Bibbity thanks for what you have said as well.  Bibbity, you are right it does get better than ever in the marriage.  But it takes two as you have done.
 

Gracie

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Reading through this forum it amazes me how many relationships are affected by porn addiction.  And the kind of porn varies so much.  Some are just the HBO, Cinemax brand, others are internet normal for want of a better word and then others are drawn in by things they never thought would excite them.''

It also amazes me how many men say it is not their wives, but then post about how often sex occurs, or how they look or the fact they aren't an intelligent equal.  If these things bother them, then it is about their wives.  But some wives never know what is bothering their husband or about porn.  So then they are left with a half-assed relationship.  How horrible to go through life without having the relationship of a lifetime.  Both partners are then cheated.

My husband thought I did not want sex anymore. But once I found out about porn and we went through everything,  (you can read my posts) he discovered the lack of sex was due to his lack of interest in making love and enjoying each other.  I had children before we were married.  Then when the last one was out, I thought we are alone this is gonna be great.  Only it wasn't.  Now it is what I had imagined.  I still have moments.  And to address those moments, I am applying the "do not think about it for this day"  I don't look to the past or try to look forward.  I am in this day. And I am a little past 60 so I know I may not get 25 years of being beloved. (That was how long it went on)  But it is so much better.

Men, I challange you look at your wives and girlfriends through the eyes of love. 
 

LTE

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I find it an amazing coincidence that just before you posted that I was thinking about the fact that love is the answer . . . to pretty much everything. I can't think of a problem that can't be helped through the application of love.

Lack of love manifests itself in many ways, greed, dishonesty, hatred of persons different than you, etc. In evaluating attitudes about porn we repeatedly read about objectification and what else is objectification if it is not able se of love. The woman that appears in a porn scene has a story, wants, dreams, needs, and all the things common to all humans but to a porn viewer she may be nothing more than a collection of interesting anatomical bits.

One thing that astounds me about my journey is that I'm no longer triggered by a glimpse of nudity in an R rated movie. If I do happen to see such a sight these days my reaction is to admire the beauty of the human form and I automatically remember that what I saw was a person, not a thing.

This translates well into everyday life, too. There are still cute bottoms and impressive busts out there in the world, but I have learned to see the person, not the anatomical bits, even when they are appealing. In the store, recently, my cashier was a beautiful young woman with smokey gray eyes. I didn't notice her bustline, I was far too busy noticing her eyes and the soul behind those beautiful eyes. She was pleasant and friendly as she took care of my transaction and that was the greatest beauty of all. Not only had I bought a cup of coffee that morning, but I exchanged smiles with a beautiful and pleasant young woman. I didn't take a detailed inventory of her anatomy; something I probably would have done a couple of years back. Here's the important part, I acted with love and consideration towards her, treating her as an equal, not as an object.

If you apply love diligently, the entire porn illusion falls apart. The actresses have a story, and in most cases it's not a happy story. Women in the sex industry frequently came from a troubled background. People that have been mistreated as a child, especially if that mistreatment was sexual in nature, will tend to devalue themselves. If you don't have a sense of self worth, then selling your body becomes much easier to do. Sadly, many of the people in porn believe that their only real value lies in their sexual abilities. Apply love in our outlook and we see them as people deserving of love and respect, just like ourselves. Porn just does not work in the presence of love.
 

PMOVictory

Active Member
Ite

What you are saying here is so profound.

I have come to realise that rebooting gives one new eyes through which one can see all of this. Without new eyes there is no understanding to what you are saying here.

Ditto on you wisdom.
 

LTE

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PMOVictory said:
Ite

What you are saying here is so profound.

I have come to realise that rebooting gives one new eyes through which one can see all of this. Without new eyes there is no understanding to what you are saying here.

Ditto on you wisdom.

Thanks, PMOV. I see it as simply attaining normalcy, after a 43 year detour. :) In all seriousness, three insights are important in order to live effective lives. If you are not in control of yourself you are not going to be as effective in showing respect and love for others. If you are not in control of yourself you are not going to have healthy self esteem and, once again, this impacts your ability to love.
 

LTE

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PMOVictory said:
Does this ring a bell...?
We should love others as we love ourselves (Paraphrasing)
Lady Gaga? :) Just kidding, mate. IMO, love is summed up in the Golden Rule, treating others as we would as want to be treated. The beauty of this is it is truly a one size fits all solution. Love may mean overlooking faults in a family member. It may involve just the opposite, and cause you to take a stand against self-damaging behavior on their part. Sometimes it's as simple as looking at someone and rejoicing at the fact that they are alive and part of your life. Love dictates that we be gentle, patient and nurturing towards children. It dictates that we respect the wisdom and experience of our elders. Sometimes love simply comes down to a matter of letting someone else be who they are and accepting them that way.

One thing is for certain, if we truly love ourself we will not PMO.
 

Gracie

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Lte and PMO so interesting to see what you have written.  It is also encouraging.  It shows that people can change.  I really thought that I would not endure profound hurt by my husband.  His first wife had sex with a lot of his friends and other men as well.  In my eyes he knew what it was to be hurt. 

I was so careful all those years so that he would not think I wanted someone else.  Because when we got together I had men friends.  Then when caught it was the old well I never touched anyone it's only p orn. But he did.  He touched my heart in a bad way.  It was broken.  He touched our lives in a bad way.  So there is touching.  And touching yourself and thinking of or seeing someone else is touching someone.

The old Ice Castles song Looking Through the Eyes of Love is smarmy but so true! And the golden rule, that was insightful.  A relationship means holding each other in the highest esteem, valuing each other above all others.  I know how I valued my husband changed as he pulled back.  I did not hold him in high esteem either.  But now after much time and talking and touching and crying and holding onto each other we feel all those things for each other.
 

LTE

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Good points, Gracie. In my opinion PMO is cheating, plain and simple. My rule, my cardinal rule, is I don't touch myself for pleasure. It's that simple for me.
 
W

William

Guest
Just read this thread.  This is a great thread with some great insights.  I usually do not write or read here about how the addiction affects the ones in our lives.  To be honest, when I first began quitting, I found those considerations distracting.  My narrow focus, and purpose in writing here, is not to tell guys why they should quit, the benefits of quitting, the negatives of not, but to give narrow information on how to quit.  I have presumed, some times correctly, some times not, that by the time a guy staggers into a pornography addiction forum, they have their reasons for quitting.  Most guys don't need to be talked into quitting by the time they get here, and if they do, they are not ready to be here.  Like most guys, I thought of porn as harmless fun, then it became a harmless distraction, and then it became a chore, something that had to be done.  Then it was not fun or a distraction anymore, it was the one thing I had to do every-single-day.  I had unknowingly wrapped myself in a chain of my own making, one link at a time, no pun intended.  I suppose on some level I knew it was bad for me, but like the cigarette addict aware of lung cancer, I did it anyway by telling myself I was only hurting myself.  But then it came to hurt the one I am in love with; I had great difficulty reaching O during sex, and she came to believe she "was not enough for me."  Truth is, she is way out of my league and I am lucky to have her.  That is when I decided to get clean, that is my reason.  It helps to have a reason, something a guy can say is much more important to him than the temporary dopamine rush of porn.  I like Ite's rule:  "I don't touch myself for pleasure.  It's just that simple for me."  I came to this forum from nofap, which is a great forum, but what I like about this place is, it is focused much more on dealing with porn addiction, it is created by a guy who identifies as porn addicted, and there are a lot of other guys putting up significant days "clean." 

Keep posting.  Reading and replying are part of my recovery, so thanks.  How do we help ourselves?  We help ourselves by helping others, so, you have helped.

Peace.

Will I AM
 

PMOVictory

Active Member
Will I AM

What you are saying is very true.
  Most guys don't need to be talked into quitting by the time they get here, and if they do, they are not ready to be here.
We all know that we need to do this but it is so difficult. I can remember many times trying to quit. Record attempts were like 3 to 4 days. This really drags one down. But now I'm free. The PMO devil is dead and buried.
The reward is great.
My advice to all who still struggle is to keep on keeping on.
It is not easy, but it gets better.
Know your triggers.
Educate yourself.
Post your journals.
Keep posting.  Reading and replying are part of my recovery, so thanks.  How do we help ourselves?  We help ourselves by helping others, so, you have helped.

Stay strong and be Blessed!
 

PMOVictory

Active Member
Gracie

Thank you for all that you keep on posting.
You are, and I keep on saying it, a woman of wisdom.
What you say is so profound! Thanx for sharing and speaking your mind.

Be Blessed!
 

Gracie

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Will I Am, thank you for your words.  I think that the porn addiction causes such self centeredness that the addict cannot or will not see the harm that is caused in his everyday life.  He thinks he is the same. 

I remember during this time one son had a problem with his car.  It was a simple one, but he never worked on cars before.  My husband said he is just like the people at work, making problems and not listening.  I looked at my husband and said, "he is not your employee, he is your son.  Do not confuse the two."  Now I know it was lack of connection.  He also went through a time that instead of me calling and leaving him a message or talking to him at home, I should communicate upcoming things through email.  This was at a time he complained about receiving too many emails.  I once again said, I am not someone from work, I am your wife.  So no you will not get emails. 

The looking back and seeing all the signs of disconnect.  Now we text everyday.  Sometimes a lot of texts sometimes not.  But we both send one every morning telling of our love for each other.  First thing.  Then he set up (without my knowledge) an alarm everyday that goes off at 845 that reads "Its luvey duvey time"  This starts our routine everyday.  To go from hardly talking to this is bliss. 

PMOV I will keep posting.  I looked at threads yesterday and notice that the women's threads get read the most.  It is encouraging to see so many care about how their partner is feeling.  I only wish more would comment so they get their feelings out.  But I know man and expressing feelings are not words that are comfortable in the same sentence.

So far the do not go down the rabbit hole by getting through one day at a time is working.  I am 5 days in.
 

Gracie

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Well now I am now ten days into 1 day at a time "don't go down the rabbit hole"  It is nice to be able to keep my thoughts from escalating and going back to the "Why are we going through this at this point in our lives?"  At around 60, I  we would just be motoring along towards retirement.  I can handle stray thoughts without letting them take over.  However, I do know it could happen at any time. 

Now when I feel uneasy, I just think I can wait to do something with this though tomorrow, and I file it back like I do all the other things.  Then tomorrowar comes and I find that it is not bothersome any more.  It took two years and three months to get to this point.  But I had an epiphiny.

I help people in my job.  A girl had a significant other that identified her by a crime commited against her.  Slut, whore, anger, ready to hit.  I said, what happened to you is not a definiton of who you are.  He cannot identify you that way the rest of your life.  You have changed.  You are not that person anymore.  You deserve to be treated better.

Well, as I was talking, I was seeing myself in the role of the girl's SO.  I kept trying to identify my husband by what he was.  By what I found out two years ago.  He has done everything I have asked and changed.  He is a new person.  Then I was like "What the hell?"  So I talked to him.  I apologized. 

After that conversation, I made my decision of one day at a time.  Not all the stuff from the past, not all the what ifs of the future, just one day at a time.  I still get little thoughts but they are told they have to wait until tomorrow and then I will decide.  This all has given me a true sense of peace.  He on the other hand is cautiously optomistic.  I see him looking for signs that I am uneasy.  I know that will pass.  However, I am still a little anxious about the looks thing.  But I know it will be okay.
 

LTE

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I like the strategy. Live in the now, live in positive anticipation of a better tomorrow, but keep yourself in the here and now.
 

PMOVictory

Active Member
WOW Gracie

Well, as I was talking, I was seeing myself in the role of the girl's SO.  I kept trying to identify my husband by what he was.  By what I found out two years ago.  He has done everything I have asked and changed.  He is a new person.  Then I was like "What the hell?"  So I talked to him.  I apologized. 

After that conversation, I made my decision of one day at a time.  Not all the stuff from the past, not all the what ifs of the future, just one day at a time.  I still get little thoughts but they are told they have to wait until tomorrow and then I will decide.  This all has given me a true sense of peace.  He on the other hand is cautiously optomistic.  I see him looking for signs that I am uneasy.  I know that will pass.  However, I am still a little anxious about the looks thing.  But I know it will be okay.

What you are saying here is a break through and very significant.
Thanx for sharing!

Stay strong and be Blessed!
 

Gracie

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Well I made it three weeks before going down the rabbit hole.  Bleah!  When it was discovered by me, he said so many hurtful things.  And every so often, they  just wash over me.  And then I feel so down.  He holds me and lets me talk about the hurt I felt and the hurt I feel when this happens.  I am glad he does.  But I cry.  And even though I hear, read, and have him tell me it was not me, it can still feel that way.

But the good things are:  He does not watch anymore, he does not scan, we can talk to each other, and most of all there are no secrets.  Those things keep me centered.  Just every once in a while, there is a bobble and sometimes I can keep centered and sometimes it goes careening off the thoughts that go through my head.  Who knew that porn could cause so much pain?  Who knew it was not harmless?  Who knew it could shake relationships to their very foundation?  And unlike other problems in life, it is not something you can just sit down and talk to anyone about.  So you have to figure it out.

I am glad there is this forum.  It helps. 
 
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