Surprise

Gracie

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I am really affected by SORP's struggle here.  It is all of the women's struggles at one point or another in this walk with our husbands as we go through this mine field.  And that is what it is.  We never know the excuse or justification that might be thrown our way as "the reason".  And when our husband says nothing to our questions, then we work on what we think it is.  Then we just keep getting diversions thrown our way.  Whether things are said to hurt us, or protect us, or to explain to us, it is the rollercoaster ride of a lifetime. 

For all the young men that read these comments, be up front with the woman or girl, do not hide it.  Deal with it full on.  You do owe that to someone you love.  For the ones that have hidden it.  Figure out a way to be truthful.  Do not risk being discovered.  Man up.  We keep hearing on here about a man's nature, he can't help but notice whatever it is about women.  Show some respect.  You chose this woman your are with.  Why did you choose her?  Is it because she is you soul mate?  If yes, then bare your soul.  Go back to when you chose.  Why did she choose you?  Are you that exact same person?  Do you still look at her through the eyes or love or do you look at her with eyes of comparison? 

Do not throw smoke bombs.  Love her.  Love her.  Show her the respect she deserves.  and Love her, as she is.
 

Gracie

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Gracie here.  I have been disappointed that a number of women have stopped posting on Reboot Nation.  I wish I knew why.  I stay because the hurt is so profound I would like men to understand their partner's response, to remember that there are two going through all of this.  So, I am going to post at least every two days things that I have learned during this time.  Today, I am going to post things that have changed with us and in our marriage.

The number one best thing is that he told me once I discovered it.  Maybe it wasn't the best way.  He is not a talker and sharer, but he became one for me.

1.  We go to bed at the same time every night.  We wait up if someone is at a meeting.------This is a great change!
2.  We hold each other now all through the night.  (We used to sleep on opposite sides of the bed)----This is a great change!
3.  We kiss hello and goodbye and hug every time one of us goes somewhere.---This is a great change!
4.  We go out----This is a great change!
5  We sit together on the couch.----This is a great change!
6.  We actually enjoy each other's company.-----One of the greatest changes.
7.  We tune in on each other's feelings in an instant.---This one is woohoo!
8.  We feel like a team that can get through anything.---Great thing.  For so long I felt all alone in dealing with things.
9.  We are connected in a way we never would have been before.---Great change.
10.  He holds me when I bottom out.

Now for some that are bleah that we are working on and we both understand.
1.  I have trouble traveling alone for my job.
2.  I have trouble being alone when he travels.  (not because he may look.)
3.  I still worry about how I look.
4.  I occasionally bottom out about all that happened.  (not as often, and it doesn't stay for as long.)
5.  ED comes along and whacks us in the head.

I know this is long. But I feel it is important. 
More later.



 

LTE

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Gracie said:
Gracie here.  I have been disappointed that a number of women have stopped posting on Reboot Nation.  I wish I knew why.  I stay because the hurt is so profound I would like men to understand their partner's response, to remember that there are two going through all of this.  So, I am going to post at least every two days things that I have learned during this time.  Today, I am going to post things that have changed with us and in our marriage.

The number one best thing is that he told me once I discovered it.  Maybe it wasn't the best way.  He is not a talker and sharer, but he became one for me.

1.  We go to bed at the same time every night.  We wait up if someone is at a meeting.------This is a great change!
2.  We hold each other now all through the night.  (We used to sleep on opposite sides of the bed)----This is a great change!
3.  We kiss hello and goodbye and hug every time one of us goes somewhere.---This is a great change!
4.  We go out----This is a great change!
5  We sit together on the couch.----This is a great change!
6.  We actually enjoy each other's company.-----One of the greatest changes.
7.  We tune in on each other's feelings in an instant.---This one is woohoo!
8.  We feel like a team that can get through anything.---Great thing.  For so long I felt all alone in dealing with things.
9.  We are connected in a way we never would have been before.---Great change.
10.  He holds me when I bottom out.

Now for some that are bleah that we are working on and we both understand.
1.  I have trouble traveling alone for my job.
2.  I have trouble being alone when he travels.  (not because he may look.)
3.  I still worry about how I look.
4.  I occasionally bottom out about all that happened.  (not as often, and it doesn't stay for as long.)
5.  ED comes along and whacks us in the head.

I know this is long. But I feel it is important. 
More later.

Gracie,

Thanks for posting that. It's one of the most positive things I've seen in a long time.

I truly appreciate the female forum members and feel that you serve a very important function in helping men see the harm that porn and masturbation have caused to their mates.
 

Gracie

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Well I am back posting today.  I was reading through some of the journals about porn choice popping back into rebooters brains early in the morning, having a "still moment", going to sleep at night, being alone etc.  A big light bulb went off.  When I wake up in the night, wake up early, quiet myself, driving etc., that is when start thinking about him choosing porn.  (by the way, when I say choosing porn it is because he kept it secret so it was a choice so knowing someone will be hurt and you have to keep the secret makes it a choice)Thinking about what we have been through.  Wondering about how bottomed out my self esteem is.  (A lot of that now is he couldn't talk to me and share himself) 

So apparently there are some SOs that have the same problem about intrusive thoughts and our brain trying to go back.  So in the morning I get up make some coffee and do a little cleaning.  I guess it just goes to show, it is two going through this at the same time.  Our intrusive thoughts are not the same, but they have the same motivation:  repairing ourselves and our relationships. 
 

LTE

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Those "still moments" can be very frightening for everyone. It's just us and our inner demons. :)
 

Jimmy James

Active Member
Great thread.  Very educational.

I know I need to confess to me wife, but so far I have been too gutless to do so.  I know I need to just grow pair and do it, but ...
 

SlaveToRighteousness

Active Member
Hi Gracie -

One of the things that I have made a conscious effort to do (and that has also happened naturally, to some extent) since quitting porn has been to be more affectionate with my wife throughout the day. I try to hug and kiss her multiple times daily, which I didn't used to do (unless I thought it would lead to sex). I also try to think of her as a sexy woman, rather than focusing on her flaws. I tell myself periodically "I can't believe I get to make love with this woman! I'm a lucky man!", instead of dwelling on all of the women that I don't get to make love with.

All of this has had a huge (no pun intended) impact on curing my ED. For the past few months now my body has been working better than ever, and I get aroused just from kissing and touching her. I have learned from past experience that if I want my body to function properly with my wife, I have to keep thoughts of other women out of my head. And if I keep thoughts of other women out of my head, then my body functions great.
 

LTE

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STR said:
Hi Gracie -

One of the things that I have made a conscious effort to do (and that has also happened naturally, to some extent) since quitting porn has been to be more affectionate with my wife throughout the day. I try to hug and kiss her multiple times daily, which I didn't used to do (unless I thought it would lead to sex). I also try to think of her as a sexy woman, rather than focusing on her flaws. I tell myself periodically "I can't believe I get to make love with this woman! I'm a lucky man!", instead of dwelling on all of the women that I don't get to make love with.

All of this has had a huge (no pun intended) impact on curing my ED. For the past few months now my body has been working better than ever, and I get aroused just from kissing and touching her. I have learned from past experience that if I want my body to function properly with my wife, I have to keep thoughts of other women out of my head. And if I keep thoughts of other women out of my head, then my body functions great.
Nicely stated, STR.
 

Gracie

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Jimmy James,
It is not a matter of "growing a pair".  I wish it was.  It is a matter of sharing your burden.  It is a matter of two facing this together.  I know a lot of people do not feel that way.  But so many are here to heal ED.  All of this comes into focus once the porn affects the addict.  In the meantime it has been affecting all of your relationships.  It affects  the marriage most of all because there is always the porn being present.  Always.  And we know.  Whether we are able to voice it or not, we sense that there is something.  We can't quite figure out what it is, but we know its there.  Someday hopefully you will tell her.  I discovered as you know from my post.  Him caring enough to tell me would have meant so much more.  Instead I had to hear the excuses.  The I was planning to quit.  I knew I should quit.  The I don't know why I did it.  The I knew I should tell you.  The its not about you. (Which I wrote about in Porn SO)  Then there were the comments he said to rationalize the use.  The ones that indicated it all started with me.  Those things make it much harder when you start the hard work of healing a marriage.  And believe it or not your marriage needs healed.   

Being married and working through this is not easy.  But it is worth it!
 

Gracie

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Well now that we have come so far, we have been talking about what happened and what things in our lives kept it going.  It is hard to hear that he was being very self centered and mean in his comments (during use).  It is harder still to discuss how those words have stuck like glue in my brain.  Super glue I might add.  So of course anytime ED happens, my brain goes to they must have been true.  And then to they are absolutely true.  That I think is why I am so rough on men that blame their wives.  My husband admitted he was so self centered that when I had neck surgery and became distraught during oral sex because I did not think I could do that anymore he was more concerned he would have no more blow jobs than he was about my health.  I was upset because it was and is something I really enjoy.  But hearing the depth of the self centeredness of him is tough.  (Not that way now).

Sooo we have started doing sensate focus.  Kind of like the reuniting.  We did the first body exploration and touching last night, no sexual touch.  Very relaxing and made us focus only on touch, not work, not problems, not anything else only touch.  I hope this helps us as we continue to grow in our relationship. 

Peace
 

LTE

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It's amazing how self centered a man can become because of porn and masturbation.
 

Gracie

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Well sensate focus works unless we get side-tracked.  Maybe not disciplined enough.  But we keep doing the exercises anyway, we enjoy them.  I was messaging another person and we were talking about married people going through this and the number of divorces we are seeing on forums.  So sad that something like this can simply go out and ruin a relationship.  Pictures and fantasy  can ruin a real live human relationship.

Sure there are other problems, but with porn which came first?  If someone has been masturbating since 10-12, then the porn came first.  Those images and that method of turning on and tuning out has become ingrained.  Then starts comparisons to wife, not enough sex, not daring enough, not attractive enough.  She starts getting treated different, she reacts.  Kids start getting treated different, they react.  Work becomes a pain. Life becomes and pain.  Then one day it all comes into focus.  It is discovered, or told about.  The years suddenly come into focus and things start to make sense.  The wife wants answers.  And sometimes it cannot be worked through. 

I know I felt at a certain point I did not think I could.  The betrayal was too great.  But the love was strong.  The road to healing was rough.  Like climbing Everest with no oxygen or food at times.  And there are still moments that it overwhelms me.  There are moments for him as well because he knew the depth of what he had done, and he thought I would leave because he failed me.  But we are still here.

It just saddens me because pictures and fantasies can ruin a marriage.

Peace
 

LTE

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Gracie said:
Well sensate focus works unless we get side-tracked.  Maybe not disciplined enough.  But we keep doing the exercises anyway, we enjoy them.  I was messaging another person and we were talking about married people going through this and the number of divorces we are seeing on forums.  So sad that something like this can simply go out and ruin a relationship.  Pictures and fantasy  can ruin a real live human relationship.

Sure there are other problems, but with porn which came first?  If someone has been masturbating since 10-12, then the porn came first.  Those images and that method of turning on and tuning out has become ingrained.  Then starts comparisons to wife, not enough sex, not daring enough, not attractive enough.  She starts getting treated different, she reacts.  Kids start getting treated different, they react.  Work becomes a pain. Life becomes and pain.  Then one day it all comes into focus.  It is discovered, or told about.  The years suddenly come into focus and things start to make sense.  The wife wants answers.  And sometimes it cannot be worked through. 

I know I felt at a certain point I did not think I could.  The betrayal was too great.  But the love was strong.  The road to healing was rough.  Like climbing Everest with no oxygen or food at times.  And there are still moments that it overwhelms me.  There are moments for him as well because he knew the depth of what he had done, and he thought I would leave because he failed me.  But we are still here.

It just saddens me because pictures and fantasies can ruin a marriage.

Peace
It's an unbelievably dangerous force. My life has been ruined by it; literally. The cost, in dollars, is well into six figures, perhaps even seven figures. As I approach retirement I am still paying on a mortgage and have nearly $100,000 to go. Had I not destroyed my marriage my for,dr home would be paid off by now. My ex-wife's finances are, to the best of my knowledge, in shambles as well, probably worse than my own. So now we're up to seven figures, no doubt. But there's another failed marriage in my history and negative effects for her so let's toss in the price of another home there as well and were sprinting towards a mil' and a half that my little "hobby" has cost.

I suspect that masturbation plays a huge role in the numbers of divorces that occur these days. Think of it like this; it's no secret that most men will do damn near anything to obtain the favors of a sex partner. If they shunt their sexual energy via masturbation this force of attraction is diverted away from their respective spouses, so the incentive to ride out the normal ips and downs of marriage is diminished. Porn and masturbation, undoubtedly, has an inestimable social cost.
 

SlaveToRighteousness

Active Member
There was a strip club in my hometown when I was young with a sign out front that said "Harmless visual stimuli".

I never went into the club, but the message on that sign really affected me. I spent most of my life believing that porn was harmless, and that I wasn't hurting anyone by looking at it. I didn't realize the damage that PMO was causing to my marriage until I learned about PIED, but PIED was really only a symptom of a greater problem that involved a rupture in the emotional intimacy that should have existed between my wife and I but didn't because of my "harmless" PMO habit...
 

Gracie

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Yes, Harmless visual stimuli.  But what does it do?  It sometimes shows you what you can't have.  It shows you what you don't have.  It shows you unrealistic visions of women.  (ie constantly turned on wanting sex)  It shows you that your wife is not what you want. 

For everybody that says to me it is only looking and looking is okay because there is no touching, I now reply are you touching yourself?  Because then you are also thinking about them touching you, so there is touching.  So it is not okay. 

Choose the one you are with!  You will be rewarded!
 

LTE

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Gracie said:
Yes, Harmless visual stimuli.  But what does it do?  It sometimes shows you what you can't have.  It shows you what you don't have.  It shows you unrealistic visions of women.  (ie constantly turned on wanting sex)  It shows you that your wife is not what you want. 

For everybody that says to me it is only looking and looking is okay because there is no touching, I now reply are you touching yourself?  Because then you are also thinking about them touching you, so there is touching.  So it is not okay. 

Choose the one you are with!  You will be rewarded!
Agreed!  As I see it, the matter comes down to seeking sexual excitement without a partner. That can't work.
 

Bibbity

Active Member
Gracie said:
Gracie here.  I have been disappointed that a number of women have stopped posting on Reboot Nation.  I wish I knew why.  I stay because the hurt is so profound I would like men to understand their partner's response, to remember that there are two going through all of this....

Hi Gracie!  I know this post was not intended for me necessarily but I did stop posting for quite a while and mainly because it was affecting my mental health.  It is very hard to try and try to help people who do not want to change, it's hard to read some of the things on here and not cry yourself to sleep at night and it's especially hard to be reminded of the type of world my daughters are going to grow up in.  I am not one to put my head in the sand but sometimes we need a break from that pit of despair so we can adjust our lens on the world in a more realistic way.

Anyway I may or may not continue to post but I certainly wish everyone all the best :)
 

Gracie

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Bibbity,
Not targeted at the women.  Was talking about how hard it is to be a woman posting here for the exact reasons you stated.  Men worrying about ED not relationship so much.  Yes it is hard to be here.  I sometimes do not post for the same reason.  Mental health.
 

Bibbity

Active Member
Gracie said:
Bibbity,
Not targeted at the women.  Was talking about how hard it is to be a woman posting here for the exact reasons you stated.  Men worrying about ED not relationship so much.  Yes it is hard to be here.  I sometimes do not post for the same reason.  Mental health.

Yes!  It is very hard to see men talking about using women to reboot or talk about how ED is ruining their relationships when we know it's not about the ED.
 

LTE

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Bibbity said:
Gracie said:
Bibbity,
Not targeted at the women.  Was talking about how hard it is to be a woman posting here for the exact reasons you stated.  Men worrying about ED not relationship so much.  Yes it is hard to be here.  I sometimes do not post for the same reason.  Mental health.

Yes!  It is very hard to see men talking about using women to reboot or talk about how ED is ruining their relationships when we know it's not about the ED.
One observation I've made is that some people come here to fix ED, others come to fix their lives. I think that the second group will be more successful.
 
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