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SlaveToRighteousness

Active Member
One observation I've made is that some people come here to fix ED, others come to fix their lives. I think that the second group will be more successful.

In my case, I had always tried (but failed) to fix my life, and it wasn't until I realized I was suffering from PIED that I found YBR and started trying to fix my ED. Before long I realized that my ED was a symptom of a much bigger problem, and so I started trying to fix that problem.

Now that I have fixed my relationship problems with my wife, my ED has gone away and we are happier than we have ever been.
 

chiefmitch88

Active Member
lte, I agree that the second group will be more successful. Do you think there might be an effective way to help move more of the ED obsessers from column A into the life rebooters of column B? There seems to be a lot of focusing on a problem rather than creating a solution. Perhaps there is a gap in information here that neglects the individual's necessity for evaluating the escapist and obsessive tendencies of the addict. Whereby we just continue to replace one addiction/obsession for another. (i.e Sex/Objectification,Using women to rewire, blaming the world for our problems, whining for sympathy, resisting acceptance, etc).

Granted, there are a good number of men in the forum who are single. They might simply need the tools to get themselves into the dating pool. There are plenty of handy facts and figures to show them how to overcome that issue. There are people out there who will use that knowledge for malicious intent and seek only to become pick up artists. Knowledge is power, you can't refute that. Ultimately, they will find emptiness at the end of that road as well and find themselves right back where they started. I pray for those poor souls. I feel that we can teach our young women to spot these sorts of men. We can also teach them that a relationship is not the pinnacle of existence as the media brainwashes us into believing.

Young women are put through the ringer of our society and rarely come out the other side whole. Numbers on sexual assault and rape are astronomical. My wife can be counted among those statistics. It has affected her in ways that I cannot begin to fathom. Also, her father was not around during her childhood because he was a philanderer of epic proportions.  She is my family though, I love her. I still don't feel that I grasp all the pain I caused her with my addiction. And I know that I would benefit greatly from some information that addresses issues such as the effects of sexual assault on the human brain or codependency in relation to sexual addictions. Or how to broach discussions with the opposite sex that uncover unhealthy expectations for their SO.

I know when I first started my reboot I made the mistake of rebooting for my sex life alone. It took failing several times to recognize that I allowed many areas of my life to deteriorate. My career didn't fulfill me, I had no self-confidence, my marriage fell apart, one by one my friendships disappeared, life had become a grind. It takes many positive relationships to support one person and I put far too many expectations on my relationship with my SO. I expected her to be my everything. The thing they forget to tell you is that no one can be your everything. People can bring light to your life, yes, but it takes a village to help us each find our path.

Some people are finding that village for the first time here. I choose not to believe in lost causes. Each individual has a unique story and by classifying them within the hopeless column A we make them another number that isn't deserving of our compassion. If most are like me, they didn't understand that the choices they were making were chipping away at their foundations. I had come to accept that I was simply born lacking. Maybe by  expanding the information that RBN provides we may be able to help these people help themselves. They know they need help but the unique circumstance of each person that comes here to find help may prevent immediate success. By providing links to other resources that address physical, sexual, emotional, spiritual traumas we may be able to enlighten people to their story and help them to begin writing new chapters that are filled with contentment.
 

LTE

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chiefmitch88 said:
lte, I agree that the second group will be more successful. Do you think there might be an effective way to help move more of the ED obsessers from column A into the life rebooters of column B? There seems to be a lot of focusing on a problem rather than creating a solution. Perhaps there is a gap in information here that neglects the individual's necessity for evaluating the escapist and obsessive tendencies of the addict. Whereby we just continue to replace one addiction/obsession for another. (i.e Sex/Objectification,Using women to rewire, blaming the world for our problems, whining for sympathy, resisting acceptance, etc).

Granted, there are a good number of men in the forum who are single. They might simply need the tools to get themselves into the dating pool. There are plenty of handy facts and figures to show them how to overcome that issue. There are people out there who will use that knowledge for malicious intent and seek only to become pick up artists. Knowledge is power, you can't refute that. Ultimately, they will find emptiness at the end of that road as well and find themselves right back where they started. I pray for those poor souls. I feel that we can teach our young women to spot these sorts of men. We can also teach them that a relationship is not the pinnacle of existence as the media brainwashes us into believing.
IMHO, the PUA culture, using women to rewire, etc, are just continuations of the same behaviors as PMO, it all points back to a single source. A person has to learn to be in control of their sexuality, it's that simple.

 

chiefmitch88

Active Member
I don't dispute that. Anyone coming here knows that they must get their sexuality under control. But a messy sexuality might be an indicator of a messy life. Maybe those people never understood that they had any control. Obsessive/Compulsive personalities can probably relate to the feeling that the have no handle on their behavior. And after reading thousands of words from hundreds of rebooters I have come to find out that people in the midst of a difficult time don't feel that their problems are simple.

They may know that porn is bad, but if it is the only comfort they have ever known it is awfully hard to see that when they are watching their world crumble around them. If they have been brainwashed to self-identify through their sexuality the problem is deeper than the sexuality alone. They must go through adolescence from the beginning. You may be dealing with people with the emotional quotient of a 10 year old. We have hundreds of articles relating to the physiological response of the body and mind to porn addiction. The journals of the people here speak of the ways it affects our lives. Life coaching people toward a fulfilling purpose or calling might be an effective means of shifting rebooters into that higher gear that is required if they are to succeed.

Also, I feel you skirted around contemplating any other points I brought up in my previous post.
 

Gracie

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Young women are put through the ringer of our society and rarely come out the other side whole. Numbers on sexual assault and rape are astronomical. My wife can be counted among those statistics. It has affected her in ways that I cannot begin to fathom. Also, her father was not around during her childhood because he was a philanderer of epic proportions.  She is my family though, I love her. I still don't feel that I grasp all the pain I caused her with my addiction. And I know that I would benefit greatly from some information that addresses issues such as the effects of sexual assault on the human brain or codependency in relation to sexual addictions. Or how to broach discussions with the opposite sex that uncover unhealthy expectations for their SO.

I can tell you that sexual assault/abuse affects a lot of areas of a survivor's life.  Sometimes it depends on the age that the abuse occurred and what the abuse was and how long it went on.  Each person is unique.  If you let me know some of the things you would like to know I can post links to the information. When you talk about how to broach discussions, who is the person that has unhealthy expectations?  The addict or their partner?  I can tell you the things that worked in my situation.  Because it is very difficult to work through.

I think that for the single men, the answer is for the older ones here to continue to stress that the time devoted to sex in a relationship is at most an hour a day.  (I know it is less most of the time) but what is going on the other 23 hours a day?  And talk about the true importance of building a life together, getting to know someone before sex realizing that the brain interaction is more important.  The communication, the ability to talk.  I do not think guys get that now.  The more secure people are in their relationship the more everything else falls into place. 

I can tell you that telling my husband what was needed for me to feel secure was very difficult.  I knew I ran the risk of losing him forever if he did not understand what I needed to stay.  But I knew I could not continue on as it was.  Fortunately he got it.  However, the smoke bombs continued, and even now I have to call him on it sometimes.  It takes a lot of strength.  But, chiefmitch, maybe we can change this.
 

chiefmitch88

Active Member
@Gracie

I would be interested to see some reports on how and adolescent girl might be affected by being molested by older male guardians. Also, the effects of growing up without much in the way of a father figure.

Regarding the relationship expectations I feel there are a few on both sides. She is a codependent and is in the beginning stages of learning to handle it. As you  may know it is an incredibly dynamic and sometimes convoluted issue. I am struggling with finding patience while she works through it. I feel that area is where my expectations are off base. I have a tackle it head on mentality. From  my perspective, her codependency is the major issue affecting our ability to communicate openly. As an addict, I am doing my best to be an open book while she is the sort that has trouble addressing unsavory emotions or scars from the past. As a codependent i believe she has associated feeling bad with being wrong or out of sorts in some way. I also have my suspicions about her equating her sexual desirability with her own self worth. As you might expect, this theory has been met with some major opposition. I have tried to talk to her about it from dozens of different angles and it always ends in a fight. Probably because, as her spouse and an addict, she feels so powerless that she resorts to anger and putting up walls. Time is likely what is required on my part.

On her part, I feel that her constant need for love and affection while I am trying to battle this addiction is unrealistic. I feel that I am on a razors edge around her and at the slightest hint of my disapproval she is touched off. I feel as though I must be the fairy tale prince charming who put his sentences together with perfect syntax or run the risk of having her pick it apart to find something she can ultimately blame on me. Perhaps I caused her so much pain with my addiction and the associated behaviors that she became someone she could no longer trust. I can get that, but how do we get over the hump to the point where she will be open and honest with me?
 

Gracie

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What happens when someone is sexually abused at the childhood level often is that their development freezes at that time in a lot of ways.  You may look at how she handles things and see that she is like a teen in her responses.  It is difficult for her to reason or apply logic to problems.  Teens are driven by emotion and you may also see that reflected in how she views life. Being abused by people who should protect you causes a major mind f**k.  It causes huge trust issues and creates difficulty when the person looks for an attachment figure.  Because in the past the attachment was ruined by being used.

So now we come to the porn addiction.  She developed an attachment to you as her husband.  And I can tell you and you have probably read in my posts, that we feel not enough.  It interrupts how we feel about ourselves, our husbands and our marriage.  It is difficult to discuss this calmly because of the fear of rejection.  And yes as co dependents the fear is being bad and wrong.  And all SOs of PAs want to know we are desireable but as she has had the sexual abuse it is even more important.  The men who "loved her" had sexual contact with her.  And something was chosen over her. 

Her constant need for love and affection is so she can feel attached.  She needs to feel that above all else, otherwise she feels adrift. 

So what can you do?  My husband asked me what I needed to feel secure.  1.  So we texted.  In the beginning I needed LOTS of texts.  I wanted to know he was thinking about me.  Some were love you.  Some were steamy.  2.  We started a love song list on Spotify.  It was fun and interesting to find songs that expressed our feelings.  3.  We went to bed together every night at the same time.  and we sleep naked.  4.  Kisses hello and goodbye and real kisses not pecks.  5.  We sit together on the couch, no sitting separate.  6.  We hold hands walking in public.  7.  We got rid of Directv  he was a Cinemax watcher.    These were all non-sexual and made us connect.

We also read things about porn addiction together both for addicts and SOs.  These were sitting and talking to each other.

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/08/on-marrying-a-survivor-of-childhood-sexual-abuse/278967/ 
This is about a male survivor but I think you will see some useful information.  I will gather more information and link you to it tomorrow.
 

chiefmitch88

Active Member
Do you feel these are things I can bring up in conversation? I truly believe that if I did it would be met with pure hostility...
 

Gracie

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Staff member
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Just say  I want you to feel secure, what do you need to feel secure.  Then if she doesn't know or is hesitant, pick a few and ask would this help?  Like would it help if I was in bed next to you instead of staying up.  Ask can we kiss hello and goodbye.  Say I miss holding hands.  Ask do you remember some of the songs that we liked when we were dating.  Let's see how many we can remember.  The non-sexual things will help her know this isn't "just for sex"  it will help her attach.  With attachment after a while there will come intimacy and then will come sex on a different level.  She will notice that it is different.    Can you pm me what state you live in?  There may be free help for her in working through the past trauma.

Peace
 

Gracie

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I love this forum, it enables us all to get help and support regardless of what is going on.  Sometimes it helps us see things from the other side.  We finally went to Dr. over the ED.  Turns out Dr. thinks it is his heart medication.  So we have Cialis.  He did not want to use meds because he felt it was a crutch.  I encouraged him to talk to Doc to make sure it wasn't physiological.  It was good to see him have confidence again.  And good to know it was a physical thing.  Helps both of us mentally. 

BTW I was listening to a Sirius XM program on Sexuality, they had two docs one male and one female.  A woman called in about men wanting to "spread their seed" and can they be monogamous.  The male doc actually said it was a woman's duty to be sexy and alluring her whole life for her man.  He made no mention of the man making her the center of his life. Or helping her feel sexy.  Only the woman being trim and fit and sexy and alluring and keeping herself up.  We women can't win with attitudes like this. 

That's all on my ramblings for now.

Peace
 

Gracie

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I wish that more women participated in this forum on an ongoing basis.  There is so much need for them to be here.  There is a need for them to all know there is hope.  That there is healing.  That they can get through to the other side.  I have seen a lot of men truly grow and become better husbands, boyfriends as a result of staying to course.  The ones that seem to do best are the ones that realize that intimacy is the key.  That letting your partner into your world is worth its weight in gold.  My husband no longer has the wall up that he stays behind and is "strong".  He shares, he is more relaxed than he has ever been.  I too have learned that I now have a husband I can share things with and he listens.  It has taken me three years to really get to where I feel I am on the far side of this addiction.  It has taken a lot of stepping out of my comfort zone emotionally to get here.  But, it was worth it.  I am glad he stepped out of his comfort zone as well.  He has consistently said, "Whatever it takes, for as long as it takes."  And he has lived those words.

Peace
 

LTE

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Gracie said:
I wish that more women participated in this forum on an ongoing basis.  There is so much need for them to be here.  There is a need for them to all know there is hope.  That there is healing.  That they can get through to the other side.  I have seen a lot of men truly grow and become better husbands, boyfriends as a result of staying to course.  The ones that seem to do best are the ones that realize that intimacy is the key.  That letting your partner into your world is worth its weight in gold.  My husband no longer has the wall up that he stays behind and is "strong".  He shares, he is more relaxed than he has ever been.  I too have learned that I now have a husband I can share things with and he listens.  It has taken me three years to really get to where I feel I am on the far side of this addiction.  It has taken a lot of stepping out of my comfort zone emotionally to get here.  But, it was worth it.  I am glad he stepped out of his comfort zone as well.  He has consistently said, "Whatever it takes, for as long as it takes."  And he has lived those words.

Peace

Sadly, in our society, there is a lot of pressure to,separate love from sex. I see this as a source of many problems. People used to search for someone to love and then they had sex. Nowadays, many people have sex early in relationships and hope that eventually they will find a permanent mate among their lovers. I think that this has hurt us in many ways.

People that use this approach may never really learn to,be in control of their emotions or their sexual desires. If they do find a relationship that could be enduring they may not possess the skils required to make it work. It's easy to fall back into old patterns and just move along instead of working out the problems. At the end of the day, these people call themselves serial monogamists, but, IMHO, this is just a buzz-phrase design to mask the reality of a life of incessant wandering.
 

Gracie

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Well I have not posted for a bit.  We are doing great.  Although the other day we discussed how many areas of our life were affected during his PA.  Talked about the effects on us, the kids, doing things to our house.  How checked out he was.  Those hindsight glasses are like lit flashing arrows pointing out the things that we SOs did not understand that were different and did not know why.   

If only people knew, it is like throwing a pebble in to a still pond and watching the ripples go on and on and on.  So on discovery for me it was survival mode.  My survival, the survival of our relationship.  At that moment and for a long time after it does not sink in that this affected absolutely everything.  Then as we start to re-bond at the broken places and "renovate", we start seeing the other things.  Then sometimes we (both of us) grieve the lost time.  Then we make a stronger commitment to this "new relationship" that we have with each other.  For him he is surprised that sex is not the most important thing anymore.  It helps us bond and we do not neglect this part of our relationship anymore.  But, it is not the be all end all.  We are important to each other in a deeper way.
 

LTE

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Gracie said:
Well I have not posted for a bit.  We are doing great.  Although the other day we discussed how many areas of our life were affected during his PA.  Talked about the effects on us, the kids, doing things to our house.  How checked out he was.  Those hindsight glasses are like lit flashing arrows pointing out the things that we SOs did not understand that were different and did not know why.   

If only people knew, it is like throwing a pebble in to a still pond and watching the ripples go on and on and on.  So on discovery for me it was survival mode.  My survival, the survival of our relationship.  At that moment and for a long time after it does not sink in that this affected absolutely everything.  Then as we start to re-bond at the broken places and "renovate", we start seeing the other things. Then sometimes we (both of us) grieve the lost time.  Then we make a stronger commitment to this "new relationship" that we have with each other.  For him he is surprised that sex is not the most important thing anymore.  It helps us bond and we do not neglect this part of our relationship anymore.  But, it is not the be all end all.  We are important to each other in a deeper way.
The part I italicized is beautiful, truly poetic.
 

Gracie

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I have made it through two weeks of sickness without going down the rabbit hole.  This is a record! (during a sick time)  And even no kissing time on a regular basis.  Which is my favorite.  We have truly come far!
 

Gracie

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I would like to share that my husband was on an overnight trip and I did not worry.  At all!  I am so proud.  I did not have to call him a lot or text a bunch it was all wonderfully normal.  And I slept.  I did not keep waking up did not have trouble going to sleep.  This is a big step for me. 

So happy with how far he and I have come!  Celebration!
 

LTE

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Gracie said:
I would like to share that my husband was on an overnight trip and I did not worry.  At all!  I am so proud.  I did not have to call him a lot or text a bunch it was all wonderfully normal.  And I slept.  I did not keep waking up did not have trouble going to sleep.  This is a big step for me. 

So happy with how far he and I have come!  Celebration!

Congratulations to both of you.
 

So Reboot Partner

New Member
Gracie said:
I would like to share that my husband was on an overnight trip and I did not worry.  At all!  I am so proud.  I did not have to call him a lot or text a bunch it was all wonderfully normal.  And I slept.  I did not keep waking up did not have trouble going to sleep.  This is a big step for me. 

So happy with how far he and I have come!  Celebration!

Hugs. This is a big deal.
 

Gracie

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Today my husband had some surgery.  I noticed how we took care of each other.  Without effort.  We truly care for each other and I was happy to get him the things he needs and he wanted caresses to make him feel better.
 
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