Is dopamine only released when masturbating or orgasming?

[Steve]

I'm trying to differentiate between things that can cause dopamine release and delta phos b output and things that can not.

It would seem to me that the release of dopamine is caused by an event of stimulation. Does it have to be a physical event like masturbation or orgasming or can it be through something as simple as looking at an arousing image or person (even if you do not touch yourself or become highly involved in the action or images or become hard)?

This is a perplexing notion because if I am walking down the street and see a pretty girl I don't necessarily think I want to have sex with her but if pretty enough I will say to myself something about her looks. Is dopamine being released at that point?

I have PIED and have stopped watching porn, masturbating and orgasming but will the outside world make it harder to recover with so much beauty to see?

It's hard to lock one's self up for the sake of not coming in contact with arousing things or people. How do some of you handle this?

 

[OSS]

You get a hit of dopamine even when considering looking at a picture, remember dopamine is more than just sex and sexual drive.

Stimulation (not all stimuli is sexual) and dopamine aren't the enemies and it's not something we want to cease. Hyper stimulation and excessively elevated dopamine are the enemies which results in down-regulation. Yes dopamine is being released when you see the attractive women on the street but that's not necessarily negative, if you were to imagine her in a porn scene then that would be also releasing dopmine but at the same time reinforcing hyper sexualized porn pathways. It's about the context. 

You handle it by just dealing with it really, if there's only one rule to follow it's "Do not indulge in artificial sexual stimuli". The trick is not avoiding regular everyday arousal, the trick is learning how to respond to it. Of-course we want to avoid excessive arousal which is why we install porn blockers and such but if we see an attractive billboard or bikini girl on a magazine we need to learn it's out of our control being exposed to it, but how we respond to it is in our control.

 

[Fappy]

By responding in that masturbatory / fantasised sexual way to the dopamine being released, you are just training your brain to respond in that manner every time. Soon enough when dopamine is released through a normal sexual encounter , if theres not the same hyper sexual stimuli, your body wont react the way you want it to.
Negative reinforcement, downward spiral, vicious cycle, call it whatever you want, its destroying your life and penis.

 

[Steve]

Good stuff. I am finding that with artificial stimuli I can "switch off" my thoughts to avoid making it a sexual context but I just didn't know if the small dopamine releases prior to "swtich off" were detrimental to recovery. It feels strange because I have an anal personality that is all or nothing so doing this is relatively natural. I'm either completely into something or not, which I know is bad in dealing with the gray areas of life.

I'm trying to find ways to manage dopamine release so that I can gain back healthy levels and when I have an opportunity to enjoy the touch of a woman again and not have ED.

So now the question begs......if a person can control themselves and not masterbate or want to orgasm is artificial stimulation still bad? Can there be normal dopamine released that does not later cause PIED. Seems to me that what has been mentioned is that hyper stimulation or dopamine release is what is bad but manageable normal functioning levels are ok.

 

[William]

This is an excellent question and it is the ONLY relevant question when it comes to porn addiction, aka dopamine addiction, aaaaka, just plain dopamine addiction. 

A lot of guys here ask the question  how much porn is too much porn?  It is the wrong question because it translates:  how much porn can I watch and get clean?  The answer to that question is:  you cannot get clean if you continue to watch porn.  Won't happen.

As you know, Steve, dopamine is a naturally occurring brain-reward "drug" that gets you a bit high.  It is normal and healthy to have a dopamine rush.  Problem though:  High Speed Internet Porn allows for that dopamine rush every day, multiple times a day, for years, and we are not designed for that.  That is where the addiction comes in.  We love a dopamine high, and so if we can get it every day for years, multiple times a day, we like it. 

You talk about being able to "switch off" your thoughts.  That is something every recovering porn addict has to learn how to do.  It is excellent not only that you can do that but that you recognize the value in doing it.  But...and this is important...you need to reboot, rebalance, and rewire.  One of the biggest mistakes, in my opinion, in approaching the problem is not understanding that the solution for a lifetime fix is not, necessarily, a lifetime of "hard mode".  Understand what porn does to a porn addict's brain; it rewires our reward circuitry to reward viewing porn, PMOing.  We, unconsciously, have worked years to alter what our brain's dopamine reward center rewards.  It is meant, designed, evolved, to reward pursuing real women, which is something we can only do now and then.  But through porn, we create reward pathways for the easiest "hit", and that is porn.  Porn requires no effort, no emotional connection, will never say "no", will never say "maybe later"; porn is an immediate dopamine hit, as many times a day as we want it.  In order to "re-wire" you have to understand what you are rewiring to, and that is to real, breathing, complicated, sometimes difficult, sometimes wonderful, human contact with women. 

My advice to you and anyone else quitting, is put aside 90 days, do the hard 90, don't think of it as a lifetime, think of it as a relatively short time in your life, after you identified the problem, to fix the problem.  Out beyond the hard 90 there will still be hard, difficult, days, but if you have done the hard 90 right, if you have deliberately avoided dopamine highs by artificial sexual stimulation (including memory of porn, fantasies, hypersexual thoughts), the difficult days become fewer and fewer until...it just gets easy. 

You are on the right path.  My advice, do the hard 90, and THEN, come back and ask the very same questions.  I doubt you will, at that time, free and clean, need to ask the same questions.  Once you get free from slavery to porn addiction, then questions about slavery to porn addiction become less relevant. 

Peace.

Will I AM.

 

[Steve]

William amazing insights and thoughts. I can justify about anything and you found a very kind way of making me aware of that. It's a good reality check.

I know I'm a hardass and think I can fix anything on my own.  Clearly the idea that I have let porn become such a large part of my life over the years I guess I'm not as tough as I thought and am clearly not in control.

Porn and my choice to watch it and let it pervade my life has caused 2 divorces, a great deal of depression and hopelessness and worst of all the inability to intimately connect with a woman. My current friend whom I love dearly, told me we don't connect sexually. I know it is because I objectify her and treat her as a fantasy and not a real woman. I'm trying to act out the scenes I see rather than be in each moment with her and feel the touch, love and tenderness she provides. So, this will cost me a third strong relationship. FUCK ME, when will I ever learn.

 

[Poker]

Self discovery is a powerful tool my friend.

Porn is not an option.....  you know that now.  Do what you have to do to fix the area's in your life now and it will make your life better for years to come.

Cheers,

p.

 

[William]

Hi Steve, you are where a lot of find ourselves before we get clean.  There are some guys here who don't identify problems porn has caused in their lives or with their SOs.  I am not one of those guys.  What you must understand, what is necessary to understand, what I found imminently helpful and necessary to understand, is that the culprit is dopamine, plain and simple.  We did not know it, but for years when we were hardwiring our brain's reward pathways to porn, we were actually hardwiring our reward pathways to dopamine.  That part of our brain which rewards seeking for sex--naturally in a healthy way, as a means to encourage reproduction--cannot discern porn from sex or from what is intended to the object of our sexual pursuits.  After years that part of our brain that is supposed to reward pursuit of sex with a real person comes to prefer the dopamine high porn leads to, because it is so much easier. That is why a lot of us report being socially awkward, not just around women, but people; porn is a place we can retreat to to escape reality, because while a lot of reality is great, some of it not so much so.  For me, porn never caused ED, like it did for Gabe, but it did cause DE, delayed ejaculation, which term is a bit deceiving, and which should be called "unable to reach orgasm unless sitting in front of a computer with my pants down watching porn."  I had great sex regularly, and my girl was satisfied, but...I could not cum with her, could not reach O with her, and that in turn led her to question her self esteem.  You know what is worse than ED, it is being so addicted to porn you damage your partner's self esteem.  In the beginning of this journey, I, like most of us here, could not see the problem, we see porn as a harmless, even amusing, little hobby that has nothing to do with our SOs, but the truth it, for addicts at least, it becomes emotionally, and sexually, more important than them.  When that happens, you are no longer living in reality, you are using porn to avoid it.  I was where you were at at one point.  I imported porn imagery into my sex life because I could not O unless I was thinking of it.  Now, for over a year, I am totally with my SO, I only O with her, I don't watch porn, and I only think of her during sex.  What did I give up?  I gave up meaningless dopamine highs.  I think you will find it is worth it.

Peace. 

William.