Trickle down disclosures

[cuppatea]

Hugs Stillme, that's a lot to deal with.
I have been reading a book called "Sex Addiction:The partners perspective: A comprehensive guide to understand and surviving sex addiction for partners and those who want to support them."
It's by Paula Hall. She has some ted talks, and I think I watched some stuff on youtube of hers as well.

Anyway the book starts by explaining what sex addiction is and then it gets into how to deal with finding out you are the partner of one, dealing with the initial emotional rollercoaster of discovery and the triggers etc. There is a section on whether or not you should leave the relationship too. I've found it very useful.

 

[Kimba]

Thats far from right Stillme, sorry to hear.  Not sure how you can recover from that type of betrayal, they just don't get it do they... You try and focus on what is healthy and good for you and maybe that will help give you answers, women tend to worry about everyone and everything else and then get called control freaks whereas not sure who else makes sure there is food in the house, birthdays sorted, bills paid etc etc, Stillme its time for you...

 

[Kimba]

Oh and Emerald I am vigilant, I have all sorts of things in place but he is trying his hardest to get around it I'm sure... I have a couple of things up my sleeve as yet, wont say on here as he may read this who knows, I think he doesn't, as he doesn't think he has a problem but just the whole ExpressVPN and proxy servers, plus I found cookies to hipforums.com, so he's getting desperate now ha ha... I have K9 on the computers and set restrictions on his iPhone but he keeps finding new sites to check, anyway at the end of the day he will be the one that looses, if he continues he will loose it all, not just the material stuff but someone that had his back and would of done anything for him but there is only so much I can and will take, I already feel differently about him, angry and feel like punching him in the face... but Im all nicey nice and just take it a day at a time, cheers everyone, its friday here in the land of Aus...Weekend is a coming Yay...

 

[Emerald Blue]

Another vote for Paula Hall's book. It's been my go-to resource as I've tried to get my head around my own situation. She puts porn addiction on the wider spectrum of sex addiction. Internet porn can act as the gateway drug for other behaviors like webcam sex, hookup apps and 'paid for' sex because it's all just a click away. The internet makes it easy for 'Mr Nice Guy', he doesn't need to go cruising a red light district any more. Hiring a hooker is now as easy as ordering pizza.

As far as you're concerned, all bets are off with him now. You should quite rightly be able to go through every atom of data on his computers, phones, iPad, external drives, USB drives, camera memory cards, phone memory cards, old phones, anything and everything that stores data. It's not 'snooping'. He has had his chance and he chose to lie. He chose to pay a prostitute to tug away on his dick, give her cash so he could shove his dick in her mouth, and then come home to you and say 'I love you' and let you believe that he's the faithful husband. Well, he gave up his right to privacy when he pissed all over your wedding vows. Go ahead and do what you must. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING is off limits now that you know what you know. Paying for sexual services is crossing the threshold into another domain. The underworld of prostitution. So do what you must. All you ever wanted was the truth.

At this stage, does it matter so much about the EXTENT of the habit, knowing that he's admitted to paying for the 'entry level' sex acts. If I was in your situation, I don't think it would matter if it was "just" a hand job or whether it was penetrative sex. It wouldn't matter if it took place in a massage parlor, a hotel room or in his car. It wouldn't matter if he paid 10 Euro or 200 Euro. It wouldn't matter if it was a street prostitute or an 'escort'. Whatever the gift wrap he might invent to make it sound less sordid, it's still paying for sex with a prostitute. That's my attitude anyway. But if I was ever to find out my husband had done what your husband did I would have to seriously rethink my future with him. I've actually been reading about prostitution and it's nothing more than renting the right for a man to force sex on an unwilling woman. The only thing that makes her do it is the money. She wouldn't have sex with any of those johns if there was no money in it for her. Prostitution survivors tell a very different tale from this pornified happy hooker fantasy shit. That's why they end up damaged or dead before their time. It's the most selfish, self serving, egotistical thing for a man to do. Renting a human orifice to ejaculate into.

 

[stillme]

Thanks for the book suggestion, I will definitely get it.

Yes, paying for sex with a real person most definitely crossed a line that we cannot come back from. This relationship is not salvable at this point. I am not going through the divorce process now just because I don't want to uproot the kids, but I am no longer even attempting to rebuild this marriage. It is gone. I will be hiring a hacker only because I feel entitled to know just how much danger he put me in. Having the embarrassment of going for STD testing is bad enough, I at least want to be able to answer the questions as thoroughly as possible.

I am still in shock right now. Never in a million years would I have thought this man could stoop so low. Definitely a stranger, I had no idea I could live with a man that could carry on a double life so efficiently. Of course I had suspicions, but this is far worse than I ever imagined. Honestly, I wished he would have had a real affair. Paying a prostitute for sex when you had a willing wife at home? I don't know if it is even possible for me to feel much lower than that.

I don't even know where to begin to start picking up the pieces. Never thought I would look back on d-day and wish that was the worst of it. But, it all makes sense now. He little guilt trip of not knowing if he could really make me happy was him knowing that there was a LOT I didn't know.

I have to admit, the hardest part is having to walk this road alone. I was too embarrassed to tell anyone about his porn habit, no way could I survive telling anyone I know that I lost my husband to porn and prostitutes. Thirteen years and all for nothing. The only thing to show for all of that is the kids. This is honestly the worst thing I have ever had to face. I can't believe that just seven months ago I would have fought anyone who accused my husband of such nonsense. I would have described him as the kindest, sweetest, most gentle man in the world. I feel very heartbroken right now.

 

[Emerald Blue]

This might only be an online forum but at least some of us have had to think the unthinkable about our own partners. I have definitely suspected my husband of doing something along the line as what your husband did. I'm sure it's actually happened within some of the relationships on here. The different is that you know it went on in your relationship. And dare I mention the men's sections? There are recovering porn addicts on here, married men who are still with their wives who also admit to using prostitutes. That would suggest that some of the women in the partner's forum will be living in a state of ignorance about their "wonderful" husbands.

Of course this experience is going to leave you feeling completely isolated. I can understand the indignity of having to share this with anyone. When you read about the addicts' shame, how fucking trivial is their shame when a faithful wife, a dutiful mother, has to say "my husband paid for sex with a prostitute". I mean, these decisions don't happen by accident. No man walks into a so called "massage parlor" by mistake and says, "I thought it was just a grocery store". That's an enormous blow.

I don't blame you for saying it's over. He had no excuse. Yeah sure, there's always "I'm an addict" and we know about the dopamine surges and how it all starts with vanilla porn and then the addict
seeks new ways of getting his dopamine fix, and then one day he finds himself in a brothel with cash in his pocket after stopping off at the ATM. Like a dopamine high is an excuse for anything? I don't buy it. It takes deliberation and planning. Not forgetting the fake "nice guy" act he parades about in civilian life. How on earth can any woman not feel intense shame and disgust at living with someone who put her aside to pay for it?

All I can say is at least you have this space, at least for now. Stay strong. X

 

[stillme]

Thanks, still hanging in there, but barely. Trying to wrap my head around all of it. He moved out of the bedroom, but is still in the house. I asked for limited contact - only to discuss the kids. Gave him back all the 'gifts' from our anniversary and other things he was doing to supposedly 'win me back', but I did keep the 'prostitute payment" I asked for. Mainly because if I find the need to move with the kids, that is what will we use. I have asked for me details about the encounter with the prostitute. Says he planned it about a week before. So, he had plenty of time to change his mind. He swears he used a condom during the oral, but I am skeptical. At this point I am convinced that the marriage cannot be salvaged. I just need time to figure out how to make things most gentle on the children. For now we are pretty much separated, but living in the same house. That is the best I can do right now until I get my head together and get a better handle on how to best handle the kids.
We will see where things go from here. But, right now I need to really let the shock wear off before I make big moves. If it was just me it would be easier. But, with kids in tow, I have to make good decisions.

 

[Emerald Blue]

Some relationships do survive and there are the kids to protect from all of this too. Paula Hall says give it 12 months or so before deciding whether to end the relationship or not, and gives reasons for staying against reasons for ending the relationship. I think if you believe there are enough positives shared between the two of you that outweigh the seriousness of this behaviour then it could work. I would insist on having couples therapy with someone with specialist knowledge of sex addiction at the very least. Paying for sexual services is not something I would ever have expected my husband to do in a million years but after what happened to our relationship starting with his porn habit, I have to accept that possibility. Even if I believe it's a 10-20% probably, it's not the 0.01% probability I would have thought before d day.

Planning it a week before... what can I say?? No acting out in the real world ever is unplanned. I have my doubts about his intentions and whereabouts in relation to certain dates and places, but I have a feeling I won't find out. If I asked outright he'd lie and I've tried that strategy before but it tends to close the door on any future discussions about the same subject, so I'm none the wiser.

You've tried so hard to work at recovering your relationship and now you've been given a bigger blow. I hope you can find some respite from this, somehow. There's only so much anyone can cope with. I really hope you can find some kind of support, even if it's just calling on a sister or a friend, not necessarily to tell them what's going on but just to spend some time out of that headspace. When I've been at a low ebb just getting out for a change of scene helps. But there's no easy way to deal with this. It's big. So use this space, there are some wonderful women here. X

 

[cuppatea]

It's so much to deal with and you've been dealing with disclosures for so long now as well, each one is like a new trauma. I hope taking some space from him will help you heal and I agree with you about keeping the payment in case you need it to go. My heart goes out to you.

 

[stillme]

Thanks so much for the support everyone.

Wow, the book that was recommended was great. I read it in one day, but of course need to go back and read it through more slowly. I even discussed some of the book with my husband. He was shocked to learn that his addiction indeed went beyond a porn addiction to a sex addiction. He has agreed to not only stay in counseling, but get additional treatment and find support.

After reading the book I see that the best thing I can do for my kids right now (as recommended in the book) is to take time to heal and make no decision on my marriage until after healing. EB is correct in that the book recommends six months to a year if you have children and that time is after the final disclosure. The recommendations on how to heal are vast and I will be taking all of them. My husband has agreed to provide support while I do what I need to do to heal and when I believe I am ready - but not before six months, then I will make the decision on whether or not to stay and work on the marriage or to divorce.

That is very different than what I had been doing, which was making my role as wife more important than my role as person/human. I focused so much on healing the marriage when neither one of us was ready for that step. He had a lot of addiction issues to face and I was not allowing myself the time, space, or energy needed to regain the things that his addiction robbed me of. So now, the marriage is simply 'on hold'. No running from it and not trying to fix it at this point. He had moved out of the bedroom at my request at the disclosure and that is how arrangements will stay for the foreseeable future. I am not thinking one way or the other about the marriage. I did agree to couple's counseling after he has a few more months in individual therapy.

The book was eye opening to him in that what he was coming to terms with in counseling was something he really had to focus on more - there were some issues from his childhood he needed to deal with. Reading about sex addiction and how that was one thing that made him vulnerable was important for him.

I also really like that the book lays it out there about what it means to stay with a sex addict. I was also pleased to see there was advice even with how to explain things to children, one thing we had avoided up until this point. We will be coming up with a plan to talk to them very soon.

But right now, it is my time and I have to get to the point where 1) I am not being driven by my emotions, and 2) my marriage and whether I stay or go doesn't have an impact on my feelings about myself. I love that my healing isn't focused on simply finding people to talk to, but taking care of myself, going out and having fun, giving myself time to develop hobbies and doing things for no other purpose than they make me and me alone happy.

Thanks again for the recommendation and for all of the support. This isn't going to be easy, his addictions caused a significant amount of damage to me, my self esteem, my identity. But, at least I have a plan and time to focus on myself.

 

[Loleekins]

"my marriage and whether I stay or go doesn't have an impact on my feelings about myself."

This. ^

Whatever you decide, things will work out. It's up to you.

Things will also work out for the children. I've been down both roads. My marriage I stayed until the kids were older. The relationship I had with my PA fiance, I chose not to repeat that scenario. I had learned the first time around it was better for my kids to be from a broken home than forced to live everyday within one.

Three damaged areas need healing and repair - him, you, and the relationship. We too often forget ourselves and focus too much attention on the PA. When we do, our repair falls to the wayside, and we take responsibility and ownership of the issue(s) off the PA. He needs to solve and sort his own shit. From the lying, to the cheating, to the porn - it all needs to be worked by him first and foremost.

Wishing you strength. Take care and take time for you.

 

[Emerald Blue]

So glad the book was helpful. I have found it to be the best book because it is specifically for partners. She has also written one specifically for sex addicts, as well as the one for partners of sex addicts. I haven't look at it because I wanted to focus on my own healing rather than be too wrapped up in addicts and addiction. The book is really good at explaining how to rebuild or maintain the other areas of life. I had pretty much lost myself and my sense of identity. I think that even before we tackle the 'porn' issue head on, we were probably living with a low level depression because we were missing the important qualities that we would normally expect in our relationships. So many things fall by the wayside because we don't see the point of investing our time and energy. There will be other priorities in life that get in the way too, so we end up neglecting important aspects of ourselves. 

When Paula Hall writes about recovery, it's about recovering our whole lives including all the things we probably stopped paying attention to. If the other parts of our life are working well for us then we are better equipped to survive relationship trauma.

It's my belief that porn addiction is very much on the spectrum of sex addiction. I've read articles online that say it's a kind of internet addiction but in my situation I definitely see it as a manifestation of sex addiction. For a start, in my husband's case it started before he had access to the internet. The internet makes it easy for sex addiction to progress from porn addiction, but then in those areas where my husband used to go and buy porn prior to the internet, the "adult bookstores" were in red light areas, there were massage parlours on the same streets that were never really disguised. There were even apartments or rooms with little red lights in the windows. So, just how easy would it be to go to those "bookstores" to buy porn and then find out what went on those others places which were literally several paces away? You see, I don't think its beyond him to do that.

You seem to be finding strength somehow, but I know it's awful no matter how you look at it. Please check in if you need somewhere to get it out of your system. X