Reboot_Dude
Active Member
Farmer is completely correct I'm afraid.
I was able to masturbate without porn last night, but...
- Thread starter scorpion1386
- Start date
scorpion1386
Well-Known Member
Reboot_Dude said:
Then what about this?
http://yourbrainonporn.com/relapse-does-not-mean-complete-reset-dont-hurt-yourself-further-binging
Or this?
https://www.nofap.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-far-back-does-a-relapse-put-you.8647/
I don't see the danger in this if it's not often.
Farmer1016
Active Member
Your brain is seeking acceptability where, logically, there really is none. You're bargaining and justifying and looking for a way to continue engaging in dopamine releasing behaviors when it's clear that you're being impacted negatively by them.
A relapse is an individual stumble. We all have those. That's what the links you posted apply to.
What you're engaging in, while I termed it as a relapse, is really much more than that. It's a continuing pattern of behavior that you're not setting aside in order to recover.
If I came here to this site and posted about all of the negative impacts that I'm suffering from as a result of porn consumption and the resulting PMO cycle and then said "I'm giving everything up except for these cam sessions that I do with this hot chick who gives me a woody," I'd likely get the same reaction from others that you've gotten here.
I'm not trying to be mean. I'm being direct. I'm being straightforward. And honest. I can feel the pain in your posts when you describe the issues you write about. I don't know you but I can empathize as an addict who is recovering. I'd like to know that you're recovering as well.
Unfortunately, based on what you've said directly and between the lines, I'm not sure you're really ready and committed to overcoming this thing. And, when I say ready, I mean really ready. I told my bride I'd gladly give up my left testicle if that's what I needed to do in order to be free of this. That may sound silly, but that's the true level of my commitment to being out of the PMO cycle.
It all goes back to what you wrote:
And finally, it goes back to the questions that I posed to you early on in our discussion:
An alcoholic who is recovering can't give up everything except beer and expect to heal.
A pill popper who wants to heal himself can't give up everything except the Xanax.
And a porn addict like myself cannot give up everything except for the ongoing cam sessions with the hot chick who arouses him.
Recovery is all or nothing.
I'll pose my third question from above to you once again:
A relapse is an individual stumble. We all have those. That's what the links you posted apply to.
What you're engaging in, while I termed it as a relapse, is really much more than that. It's a continuing pattern of behavior that you're not setting aside in order to recover.
If I came here to this site and posted about all of the negative impacts that I'm suffering from as a result of porn consumption and the resulting PMO cycle and then said "I'm giving everything up except for these cam sessions that I do with this hot chick who gives me a woody," I'd likely get the same reaction from others that you've gotten here.
I'm not trying to be mean. I'm being direct. I'm being straightforward. And honest. I can feel the pain in your posts when you describe the issues you write about. I don't know you but I can empathize as an addict who is recovering. I'd like to know that you're recovering as well.
Unfortunately, based on what you've said directly and between the lines, I'm not sure you're really ready and committed to overcoming this thing. And, when I say ready, I mean really ready. I told my bride I'd gladly give up my left testicle if that's what I needed to do in order to be free of this. That may sound silly, but that's the true level of my commitment to being out of the PMO cycle.
It all goes back to what you wrote:
And finally, it goes back to the questions that I posed to you early on in our discussion:
An alcoholic who is recovering can't give up everything except beer and expect to heal.
A pill popper who wants to heal himself can't give up everything except the Xanax.
And a porn addict like myself cannot give up everything except for the ongoing cam sessions with the hot chick who arouses him.
Recovery is all or nothing.
I'll pose my third question from above to you once again:
scorpion1386
Well-Known Member
You're not helping. At all. You're not being sympathetic at all. To you, you're just going on about the scientific facts which I respect. But I'm a human being with my own needs. You are too, which I respect. So in order to do that, I have to completely commit to giving up a friendship?
I'm pretty sure people have rebooted without hard mode.
You're just going on about your addiction recovery and not being sympathetic at all.
I'm pretty sure people have rebooted without hard mode.
You're just going on about your addiction recovery and not being sympathetic at all.
Farmer1016
Active Member
I'm truly sorry you feel that way. I've offered you the best possible advice that I can give which is, as you note, based on scientific facts and what are proven requisites for recovery.
Perhaps you'll fare better than the thousands of others before you who attempted the addiction recovery process while investing less than a 100% effort.
I wish you the very best of luck with that.
scorpion1386
Well-Known Member
Farmer1016 said:
Thank you.
I just really don't see how very rare Skype sessions that don't happen often can count as a relapse back to day 1? Kind of stupid, IMO.
Haven't people here recovered by not going Hard Mode? If it slows it down, it's fine with me. As long as I make progress. I plan to make progress in other areas of my life.
In this day and age, I can't see how one can avoid the internet.
enzomartins
Active Member
I think Farmer is 100% correct, you're just fooling yourself.
You need to focus on real interactions, not virtual, if you want to recover. Webcam is an artificial stimulus. In order to rewire your brain you need to get aroused by touch, smell, other feelings, not seeing someone in a webcam.
Go find some real person who lives near you, and stop living a virtual life, getting virtually aroused and satisfying your dopamine cravings artificially.
You need to focus on real interactions, not virtual, if you want to recover. Webcam is an artificial stimulus. In order to rewire your brain you need to get aroused by touch, smell, other feelings, not seeing someone in a webcam.
Go find some real person who lives near you, and stop living a virtual life, getting virtually aroused and satisfying your dopamine cravings artificially.
scorpion1386
Well-Known Member
And thank you Farmer1016. It's extremely difficult right now. I'm very afraid and I expect myself to continue failing, until something clicks. I can't even sleep at night well because I'm just so overwhelmed and anxious. Getting over someone is difficult in itself. I literally go to bed, wake up, bed, wake up, with anxiety in me that cycles because I'm just so distraught by this condition and everything. I can't live peacefully because of this.
A close friend of mine told me that I need to start viewing this person (if I'm to save this friendship) as a friend more than a sexual interest. And that's hard in general. I don't know how it can be done, but I think I'll get over him in time. It happens. I lost sexual interest in friends over-time. This one just seems harder. It's not just for this friendship, but also for my sanity. This is all built up from loneliness over the years and struggling with my sexual orientation, conditioned self-hate, self-conditioned hypersexuality, depression from a traumatic childhood, low self-esteem. I wonder if I am the one to blame fully? Or if it's just a negative consequence of how I groomed to see myself in the world? My self-image of myself is low. I do not like myself. Porn was the coping mechanism of pain. This is/was my heroin.
My therapist believes this was a good thing and sees hope. I can't agree more. It's just so painful. A pain I will escape one day.
I'm not committing to a journal because I know I will fail. I'm afraid, I'm scared, but I need to welcome it. It's Halloween afterall!
I'm very grateful to be in therapy, having a supportive psychiatrist, having a supportive family. I'm even grateful for this addiction because it woke me up and clarified the pain I've been causing myself for 10 years until it all hit me at once.
This will be a gradual change. Not just in my penis or brain itself, but in my own personal life.
I've already ordered the "Slight Edge" book to start my journey of recovery. I need to digest this all.
It's a journey that's not easy, no doubt.
I may not be ready for a relationship, but I may be ready for real social interactions. That could help start the healing process. I'm possibly committing to driving lessons too, as well.
As a late bloomer at 29 (almost 30), I've missed out on a lot, didn't go to college (yet) but also learned a lot. My 20's were painfully isolating. Now's the time to take initiative and love, learn, and laugh. I think this is where me and Noah Church identify (I think?).
This isn't a venous leak. This isn't cancer. This is a porn addiction. Porn kills erections. I can heal from this and live life as the gay man I want to be as.
A close friend of mine told me that I need to start viewing this person (if I'm to save this friendship) as a friend more than a sexual interest. And that's hard in general. I don't know how it can be done, but I think I'll get over him in time. It happens. I lost sexual interest in friends over-time. This one just seems harder. It's not just for this friendship, but also for my sanity. This is all built up from loneliness over the years and struggling with my sexual orientation, conditioned self-hate, self-conditioned hypersexuality, depression from a traumatic childhood, low self-esteem. I wonder if I am the one to blame fully? Or if it's just a negative consequence of how I groomed to see myself in the world? My self-image of myself is low. I do not like myself. Porn was the coping mechanism of pain. This is/was my heroin.
My therapist believes this was a good thing and sees hope. I can't agree more. It's just so painful. A pain I will escape one day.
I'm not committing to a journal because I know I will fail. I'm afraid, I'm scared, but I need to welcome it. It's Halloween afterall!
I'm very grateful to be in therapy, having a supportive psychiatrist, having a supportive family. I'm even grateful for this addiction because it woke me up and clarified the pain I've been causing myself for 10 years until it all hit me at once.
This will be a gradual change. Not just in my penis or brain itself, but in my own personal life.
I've already ordered the "Slight Edge" book to start my journey of recovery. I need to digest this all.
It's a journey that's not easy, no doubt.
I may not be ready for a relationship, but I may be ready for real social interactions. That could help start the healing process. I'm possibly committing to driving lessons too, as well.
As a late bloomer at 29 (almost 30), I've missed out on a lot, didn't go to college (yet) but also learned a lot. My 20's were painfully isolating. Now's the time to take initiative and love, learn, and laugh. I think this is where me and Noah Church identify (I think?).
This isn't a venous leak. This isn't cancer. This is a porn addiction. Porn kills erections. I can heal from this and live life as the gay man I want to be as.
Farmer1016
Active Member
I admit to being a little hesitant to wade in again. Your prior responses indicated a desire for me to move along.
If you want straightforward feedback regarding what you've got going on, I'm more than happy to offer it. If you want me to engage with you further, let me know. Otherwise, I'll refrain.
If you want straightforward feedback regarding what you've got going on, I'm more than happy to offer it. If you want me to engage with you further, let me know. Otherwise, I'll refrain.
scorpion1386
Well-Known Member
Farmer1016 said:
Feel free to offer feedback. I haven't been able to really commit, and it's difficult. My own emotions are what I've been struggling with.
Farmer1016
Active Member
That's the root of the issue. You have to want to do this for yourself. Until you're able to make that commitment, no amount of typing on these forums or reading feedback is going to bolster you or help you heal. You've got to be in a position where you're ready to take the first steps on your own.
Every decision you make regarding this issue affects your recovery process either positively or negatively. You have to evaluate each element of your life and determine which column it fits under. Once you've got things separated into those columns, then you need to address them one by one, eliminating the negatives as you go.
I encourage you to visualize where you want to be six months or a year from now. Why are you wanting to pursue the goal of abandoning PMO? What do you hope to accomplish? Make a list of three or four or five things you want to accomplish and where you want to be when you've recovered.
That list will be your guiding objective, your light shining in the distance. That list will help you stay clearly focused on where you see yourself going. In the process of making that list, don't focus on what will be involved in the journey to get there. Simply focus on your destination. Without a clear destination, you're simply wandering.
After looking at your list, ask yourself:
"Do I have the strength, resolve, and commitment to accomplish these things regardless of how much hard work or sweat or anguish is involved?"
Once you're able to emphatically answer YES, post your list and we'll get to work.
rickster69
Member
Farmer here is giving you the best advice. Scorpion, I know we all have different situations and you seem to think yours are the most important and granted that to yourself they are. But you need to stop and listen to us and quit trying to go around hardmode. You keep looking for away around the truth and then you ask us questions and time and time again we tell you what you're doing wrong yet you state you can't change and then the cycle continues with you asking more non linear questions we can't answer. You need to stop messaging this man you've never met through Skype CAUSE ITS BASICALLY THE SAME AS PORN DUDE !
Listen to us please bro.
Listen to us please bro.
laalee
Active Member
I hear you Scorpian1386 Not being able to sleep get to sleep or waking in early hours is a sign of Depression.
I have suffered also with this since 18. I also see a psychologist and many years seeing a psychiatrist it is only may be a year
that i am able to fall a sleep and wake one in morning with the help of medications. Have you had yours re assessed?
You seem to be stating that these people are your friends but you have not met him just chatted so i don't understand how he is your friend, also you say sexual feelings for friends are they friends or people you would like to have sex with these are 2 different relationships. If you feel something for this guy why not meet up for a coffee or so. I have learn't that if i see a stranger i feel this sexual and mental overwhelming feeling, but if i get to know them i see them as a person not an object.
To quote you:
This is all built up from loneliness over the years and struggling with my sexual orientation, conditioned self-hate, self-conditioned hypersexuality, depression from a traumatic childhood, low self-esteem. I wonder if I am the one to blame fully? Or if it's just a negative consequence of how I groomed to see myself in the world? My self-image of myself is low. I do not like myself. Porn was the coping mechanism of pain. This is/was my heroin.
I myself am gay and have felt everything you state here. I have hated being gay it is all about sex to me not that i wanted but that is how i have experienced it.
I identify as a sex addict also and am in recovery 7mnths now no Anonymous sex and now no PMO or m what do i have left?
that's how i feel. I feel like i am dead but need to do this stuff and recover don't be hard on yourself easier said then done.
Make a counter here and track your progress i have found this extremely helpful try to identify real friends for you.
keep posting we are all here to support ourselves thru others make it easy on yourself and do 1 thing at a time.
take what you would like from others posts and ask for help. We as gay men have dealt with so much shame guilt and hate ourselves.
Tc
I have suffered also with this since 18. I also see a psychologist and many years seeing a psychiatrist it is only may be a year
that i am able to fall a sleep and wake one in morning with the help of medications. Have you had yours re assessed?
You seem to be stating that these people are your friends but you have not met him just chatted so i don't understand how he is your friend, also you say sexual feelings for friends are they friends or people you would like to have sex with these are 2 different relationships. If you feel something for this guy why not meet up for a coffee or so. I have learn't that if i see a stranger i feel this sexual and mental overwhelming feeling, but if i get to know them i see them as a person not an object.
To quote you:
This is all built up from loneliness over the years and struggling with my sexual orientation, conditioned self-hate, self-conditioned hypersexuality, depression from a traumatic childhood, low self-esteem. I wonder if I am the one to blame fully? Or if it's just a negative consequence of how I groomed to see myself in the world? My self-image of myself is low. I do not like myself. Porn was the coping mechanism of pain. This is/was my heroin.
I myself am gay and have felt everything you state here. I have hated being gay it is all about sex to me not that i wanted but that is how i have experienced it.
I identify as a sex addict also and am in recovery 7mnths now no Anonymous sex and now no PMO or m what do i have left?
that's how i feel. I feel like i am dead but need to do this stuff and recover don't be hard on yourself easier said then done.
Make a counter here and track your progress i have found this extremely helpful try to identify real friends for you.
keep posting we are all here to support ourselves thru others make it easy on yourself and do 1 thing at a time.
take what you would like from others posts and ask for help. We as gay men have dealt with so much shame guilt and hate ourselves.
Tc
scorpion1386
Well-Known Member
Is what I'm doing considered edging? And if my testicles harden up when chatting to someone, that releases dopamine as well? Is pre-cum like coming out of a flaccid dick from the internet a big no-no and a relapse as well?
I'm just trying to figure out where I may need to make a big change in my life and see if I possibly have to make a hard decision and cut out even Facebook.
I'm just trying to figure out where I may need to make a big change in my life and see if I possibly have to make a hard decision and cut out even Facebook.
Farmer1016
Active Member
Any activity which leads to arousal (erection, pre-cum release, etc) is flooding your brain with dopamine. That dopamine release is what you're trying to avoid as part of your recovery.
Edging is masturbation in which you take yourself to the "edge" but don't allow yourself to orgasm. Some guys do that for hours on end. It's harmful in that it can lead to ejaculatory issues later on via intercourse.
Edging is masturbation in which you take yourself to the "edge" but don't allow yourself to orgasm. Some guys do that for hours on end. It's harmful in that it can lead to ejaculatory issues later on via intercourse.
scorpion1386
Well-Known Member
Farmer1016 said:
Even testicles hardening, I assume?
Damn, this is going to have be a lifestyle change for me.
Are there tiers specifically of what's the worst dopamine flooding? I can cut out masturbation and porn use due to the flatline mostly.
The Facebook is truly the hardest part.
I wonder how I should approach this person, if he so decides to try and make contact with me and tell him that I need to disconnect for a while because he arouses me? Not blaming him at all, just to try and get myself focused for this big life change?
How'd you emotionally handle leaving Facebook? Anyone? Farmer, everyone else? (if you had it)
I'm kind of excited for this change, but also scared because I'm very socially lonely. And I'm fixated on this person. Not good.
Farmer1016
Active Member
Anything that leads to arousal needs to be eliminated. Any dopamine releasing activities that you leave behind will inhibit your recovery.
Think of it this way, a person who is hooked on drugs cannot get clean and sober by eliminating everything except for the Xanax. That remaining pill will stand between him and the man he wants to be.
This is not an easy process. In fact, in the beginning, it's very difficult.
Before long though, you'll be cruising right along to a better you.
Think of it this way, a person who is hooked on drugs cannot get clean and sober by eliminating everything except for the Xanax. That remaining pill will stand between him and the man he wants to be.
This is not an easy process. In fact, in the beginning, it's very difficult.
Before long though, you'll be cruising right along to a better you.
scorpion1386
Well-Known Member
Farmer1016 said:
I'm not sure how to handle it. I wish this person didn't arouse me. I wonder if I can even see him as just a friend? Or if I can train myself not to get aroused by him? I think I may have to make some life-changing decisions soon, not yet but soon.
It's not my fault or his fault. It's just a product of depression and loneliness and using that fucking garbage to fill that void. Fucked me up and now I'm in a hard, tough situation.
It's like when Carol had to kill the kid on Walking Dead 'tough'.
enzomartins
Active Member
If you just text without webcam does that help?