Reclaiming a part of myself

[skrodriguez]

Hello to all you other brave guys out there, and to the odd girl too!

I, as I'm sure many of you, have been reading YBOP in response an awakening to the fact that something just isn't right anymore with what gets me going sexually. In the following paragraphs I'll introduce myself, my circumstance and goals and from there the journal will continue. For those of you who read this and can relate, I am glad to have been able to connect with someone else in what for me has been a challenging path to reclaim my sexuality from the porn mind-musher.

I came reasonably late to internet porn in the high-speed sense compared with many other youths of my time. I'm now 24 but only obtained high-speed internet in the home at the end of 2009 which was when internet porn really began to enter my life. Beforehand it had been the odd image stash that a mobile or even dialup internet connection could (back then) get you. It was pretty tame and sporadic. After an initial flurry I took issue with the porn and gave up video/visual/audio for 10 months. Though I was still regularly reading erotica and it became my masturbation material.

While I may have come late to porn, I also came late to relationships and sex and only lost my virnity last year when overseas. Anxious to try it all out and aware of my 'lateness' (which isn't actually a problem but try telling me that at the time) I was devastated when the real thing didn't make me real ready for it. Boy was it hot, but it wasn't voyeuristic porn and I couldn't get it all the way up. My brain was expecting something else and my penis was expecting my hand and I didn't know what to expect. I still enjoyed the experiences immensely because there are many ways to enjoy sex but penetration wasn't working well and I began to search for an anwer. I think I found it.

I've been to doctors so I know the plumbing is fine, it's up top and that's where there's no pill if you want a really solution, which I do. I don't believe my porn addiction was as bad as many, it was certainly much shorter but it did come before the real thing and unfortunately educated my brain as to what to expect. Hell I don't even and didn't even actually really like most of the porn, I found it vulgar and fake, but this would only fuel the determination to keep searching for something a little more to my tastes.

With such a realisation, giving up porn was something I did more than six months ago and didn't actually find it that hard - there were moments when I felt the hunger for reading erotica or maybe some erotic audio which I just lump under porn because what's happening in my brain is the same. The 'problem' is in having a distance relationship with someone overseas. This stopped me from being able to do a proper reboot although I lowered my masturbation frequency quite considerably and this was really rocky for me. I realise I have used masturbation as a coping strategy often in the past and porn made it all easy. Removing these things made it quite difficult and quite conscious. And then there was some cybersex, very infrequent and quite underwhelming but frequent enough to jump start the desires and generally just mess me around emotionally more than anything. Cybersex is really like porn, it's voyeuristic and ticks the right boxes in the brain. So for the past....4 months at least I've been in this semi-quitting limbo that's stressfull and doesn't feel like an achievement. Well enough is enough.

I'm going back overseas in under two months and I just decided, am I going to do this or not? I'd been reading about it extensively and feel it's now time to do it. I'd gone to about 10-12 days on about 3 separate occasions so I knew what to expect. Here I must make a confession, I've actually already started and today I completed 3 full weeks without any masturbation. The porn has already been absent for ages apart from lingering sexting or cybersex stuff which has not been for the last three weeks.

I plan to do two months, that's the goal, it will be a little more than that but basically it is 60-70 days. From there I'll give sex a go and see how it goes. So I guess I'm one third of the way and can say I've gone through definite stages: 1) after about 3 days I have a couple of rough days, then at 7-10 days again it's pretty tough and from there it was unchartered territory. Well at about 18 days it got annoying and feel like I'm just coming back off this now. Trick. NO STIMULATION. I have to be really careful and nip fantasies in the bud as they come along because once I let something run it starts the process which is then damn hard to just forcefully ignore. I'll do it, but that sort of is the punishment for indulging the fantasies and I don't like it. From day 10 to 18 I had a better time of it, just focusing on other stuff the urges subside. It really is a brain thing because there has been no morning wood, no wet-dreams and no spontaneous erections, in fact it's all pretty inactive down there but the brain wants to go at time so I have to be careful and avoid triggers. I find the further into the abstinence I am, the more 'momentum' it has, even if this is psychological, to maintain it.

For me this has been from masturbation, not porn which I haven't viewed for ages. However without the physical sex and intimicy to replace it, I still would tend to fantasize about invented scenarios when I masturbated and it didn't help. For me I feel the real battle is about letting that stuff go in the mind only that in the beginning this has to be willed rejection because fantasising had become a habit in certain situations when bored or frustrated/stressed and in certain places so it is a habit that I am also untraining. Very interesting but by no means easy. The emotional rollercoaster is not to be underestimated as I am sure ALL OF YOU WHO ARE READING THIS would know - which is why we are a few thousand doing this out of willpower and with a goal while the probably millions of men and women out there with this problem are still oblivious to it, ignoring it or have put it in the too hard basket. GOOD ON YOU PEOPLE. I really empathise with guys/girls doing a reboot. I would give them my full support for going against the popular notion that endless super-stimulus and masturbation is good and healthy and going on what they feel based on dissatisfaction to reclaim control over a part of themselves: their sexuality, which is what I am doing now.

So this is day 21 and that has been the experience. More to come. Comments are appreciated.

 

[fnatk]

Hey dude, first of all; that post was about as long as my first post was I barely know where to start!

What is good for you is that you came into this late, you've got less years of abusing your poor brain than most of us! Not that its going to make your journey to recovery and a PM free life any easier really, it might just be a bit shorter though. Well I hope it is for your sake anyway

I gotta say, you seem to have a really good handle on this so all I really can say is keep it up man. You're doing the right thing and I'm glad you've come here to share your story

 

[Never_again]

Welcome,


3 weeks PMO free? That's great! I'm only 12 days in the reboot process and today is a real nightmare!

I think we are both very similar on many points in your story: we have the same age, you lost your virginity late (I still haven't lost it and feel terrible about it), I don't think my porn addiction is as bad as many others people here (I don't have any ED linked to porn for example),etc..

I'm going back overseas in under two months and I just decided, am I going to do this or not?

Do it! You have such a good reason to do it, therefore you have no excuses! You wanna make sure you're gonna get it up when you will find yourself in bed with your girlfriend again right? And come on, you already did 3 weeks without it and it doesn't seems you're suffering a lot right now, am I wrong?

Good luck!

 

[Vincent]

Hi there and welcome.
A long post indeed, but a very interesting one. I have to say that I am a bit astonished that porn is not your real problem. You already started the abstinence very early (also got introduced late) so you focussed on a process to rewire yourself because of a trigger. The fetish of voyeurism is, so I think, the main reaso to watch porn. Being a spectator is a very special situation and, naturally, then reflects on you when being the main actor. In my case porn however is not the only problem. I have beed hardwired on "how sex works" by porn - basically having the feeling of "best friend right hand" as a partner striving for O and not for pleasure in the process. Basically like you explained it. What I need to do is eg. to rewire my sensation, my whole sexual understanding of the process itself. Maybe you will have to do that as well - whereby sex with a woman can be a solution. I wish you the best and hope to read more.

 

[skrodriguez]

@fnatk
Thanks for the words! Yes I do think my exposure hasn't been quite as debilitating as others but on the other hand I was using masturbation to medicate against stress and social anxieties, or rather loneliness. When I would respond by masturbating to urges, it would quit me of the desire to mingle. Now of course I would rationalise this away with spectacular expose factor justification by saying I'm not afraid of my own company and that many people just aren't interesting but let's stop and think for a minute here. Well no, that's quite right, other's aren't going to seem interesting next to super-stimulus porn but that one is also just loving their hand in front of pixels. I now see how so much of my 'high libido' was in fact just a brain based dopamine addiction that formed expectations through habit which reinforced certain behaviours and stopped others from developing. Dopamine can be had from a range of areas so I'm looking to some of them. This is by no means to say my journey is easy. No no, I just try and research and read around when a topic interests me and this one affects me personally and gaining a larger perspective helps me to get myself through it.

Also I'm not sure it is necessarily a masturbation free life, I don't think porn is very healthy nor overly frequent masturbation but basing my knowledge on my own experience, excessive masturbation is symptomatic of other deficiencies, at least in my case it seems to be so. When I was with my girlfriend, my desire to masturbate actually completely vanished.

@Never_again
You're right, I'll be going back overseas and will be with my girlfriend. The downside to doing things now is the pressure one will feel to perform which can enhance performance anxiety and thus ED. I'm just going to have to explain it to her and let her know I *may* need time to rewire the unconscious part of my excitation to the real thing because the rest of my loves it!

How does one remove P from their life if they have a distance relationship and the only intimacy does by it's nature replicate porn? What happens if she's good for it but I'm not going there? Consistently. Or she sends me a recording? It's tough to not comment. Well, it was pretty sporadic anyway so I'll do it anyway for the next few months and if she enquires, I'll explain it to her. She's very understanding of sexuality things. She actually wants to become a sexologist believe it or not. I'm quite probably and interesting case for her.


@Vincent
Well porn is very stimulating to me, but not being able to perform in the way I would have liked to with her made me really look at porn. My brain likes the stimulus but there is also something unsatisfying about porn. It doesn't give the oxytocin cuddle-touch satisfaction that passionate sex and everything that surrounds it does and given that I've never been able to experience the full deal satisfactoraly, I have a strong incentive to give it up. I've battled erotica more than porn because erotica for me lets my imagination fill in the picture and create something incredibly stimulating however these are often masturbatory, not sex related. This isn't intrinsically a problem as I see it but does sort of confirm to me a bit about my sexual history, being mainly masturbation and voyeurism which just can't leave room for the possibility of being aroused fully by touch and smell and flirtatious type behaviour. The subtle pleasures and cues that a porn stunned dopamine blasted brain can't really appreciate.

I can feel for your case. My intuition would be to actually work on the fantasies - they are the hardest to control because you're not masturbating or looking at porn or edging or anything but it's the brain that I think is the enabler of the problem, it's where the impulse for everything else comes from. Addict brain wants a fix and will actually mess with your reasoning to get it UNLESS you have worked out BEFOREHAND that this was going to happen are are able to recognise it when it does. Impulse control is very hard. The philosopher Stefan Molyneux had an interesting thing to say: 'Most of what you see in the world is personal history and biological evolution masquerading as some sort of intellectual gobbledegook.' Let's roll this into addict brain looking to justify its fix and I think it serves well. Hahahaha. Basically the addict brain is not to be trusted.



Who finds that without porn or porn-type fantasy, that actually getting it up is tough? I think this would depend on the person and where they are in their reboot but for me if I am to experiment outside of impulse, it's not really happening which tells me I have no 'physiological need' for release or whatever. I'm actually looking forward to a wet dream, something I haven't had for years. I can't actually remember having one. No morning wood yet either at this stage.

 

[Vincent]

good points there. It is probably the most difficult thing to change after being kind of brainwashed as porn and other unreal stimuli did with most of the people. The brain might be the one crucial factor by distributing hormones and emitting other neurotransmitters the process it has been programmed by however is probably (or at least potentially) induced culturally. The way we see sexuality always has been subject to values and acceptance of the people around it, be it specific religious believes, lifestyle dogma or just following natures rules. Also the addiction problem is as old as culture it (probably). Fantasies, and I'm talking about mine, consist of fragments of what we saw, wish and strive for, but probably will never have. THey are a form of motivation but can replace it eventually, if not taken care of. For my part I simply did not understand, why I should pursue to go on with sexual fantasies when I just could use someone else's (porn). You are probably right. The fantasies and the brain striving for more hormone-shots are surely part of the problem. But it's not like we can eradicate them....I see the culprit, as in any addiction, in the way of use. If I could have found my aristotelic "golden Middle" I wouldn't have had any such problems. But I did not. I formed that damned pathway in my head. I also think that detaching Masturbation from its original use made these things even worse. It ends with guys (and I am no exception) hurting their dicks to a max. because they thaught themselves that it is the best way to relieve stress and frustration. It works to a certain point but has nothing to do with sex. And this way, I think, a terrible connection is created, liking masturbation to Orgasmic-stress relief and making it into a habit like washing our hands. No wonder that, in my case, one gets not aroused by a naked woman. It is not stress, it resembles the pics on screen but does feel different, it is not like in ur fantasy, where we decide on the rules and procedure. It is another person with whom we will have to "share" our sexuality. And this concept of sharing is absent in porn-consumtion. It is a private thing that we do when alone and when nobody can see or judge us. It creates an unique situation which we control. My GF often said, try not to think so much. I thought always, that she ment i should think with my dick. But in fact I only tried to mimic what I saw on screen, what I thought to be happening. I expected something completely different from what is actually was. To be fair, I probably  have to say that it were not my urges controlling me, but me trying to adapt my urges to a porn-movie-script. I simply - as silly as it soundy - misunderstood sex. And my fantasies amplyfied that.

Now answering the question of M without fantasy: It works. It worked form me a lot of times. But because I actually tried to get to know my body and not to have pleasure in O. Now I think I will just have to rewire that into my brain, and - for the first time - try to enjoy sex my way.... (it all sound kinda sad..but light at the and is nearing)

 

[skrodriguez]

That's quite a monologue Vincent! Interesting, though a little hard to follow at time. I agree that much of our sexuality as we perceive it is conditioned by culture. You know what my girlfriend said to me? 'You think too much which is not good.' She said 'he who thinks, loses.' Nice. Thanks. But the worst thing to stop thinking about something is to think about not thinking about it. It's like lying in bed without being able to sleep and saying you yourself, 'man you have to go so sleep or it's gonna fuck up your rhythm and you'll feel like shit.' Bingo. No sleep.

I've been struck recently by how unfortunate the mindset and language usage of the early rebooter:
[list type=decimal]
[*]It's gonna be really hard  :-\. No, we don't want it to be hard! Keep it tucked away and focus on other things.
[*]Rising to the challenge.  Metaphorical, right?
[*]It's all in the head. I'm not feeling anything down there.  Good.
[/list]

You have to laugh it off  ;D

It's never easy when my girlfriend brings up sex and how much she misses it and some of the stuff she wants to do. It's not helpful for me cos my brains like  yeah fantasy buzz  8) which makes me a bit  :-\. Though IT IS FASCINATING to see the auto-response of my brain in this situation. This is what sensitized pathways can do. Does it make me wanna MO? The impulse is getting less strong and to be honest, the thought of MOing alone is such a turnoff that usually kills it for me which I personally think is encouraging. However, afterwards, how long before I really stop thinking about it? Still a while. They say this of a fit vs unfit person. They measure the fit person (in this case the non-addict brain) by how quickly they recover. I'm still a work in progress, but I am progressing. Have moved house since I last MO'd making the new setting a good change of environment.

?Ojo! Cuddly messages can often turn sexual though I think I do this more than her. So double standards. Though I no longer escalate because I don't actually want it to escalate. Today was fine.

 

[Vincent]

hehe, sorry 'bout the monologue - seems to be my forte when I am focussed...now I know why nobody wants to read my stuff ;D

From my experience I can only say that the fantasies are not going to disappear. Your girlfriend will not be the only trigger and especially in summer it's very difficult. But keep in mind that fantasies you share and create out of a situation with another person are also part of rewiring. It's not like we can bock sexual desire - and we also should not want to do so because we only want to get rid of the wrong approach, we had so far. And you also should not apply darvinistic rules to rewiring, because it doesn't apply here. Of course one could say fit and unfit brain. But we ourselves can change that. It's not permanent and genetic. I think your approach with laughing it off is eventually going to work. Because all we want in the end is to be free of the urge to watch and the morale to stop us. Just piece of mind.

 

[skrodriguez]

Regarding the cravings, I haven't had the craving to look at P, I really don't want to but I have wanted some stimulation which for a while for me was reading just about anything sexuality related in articles or forums, anything discussing masturbation, particularly if it related to women would set my brain off and although I wouldn't call it porn, about a 2 months ago I realised it was filling the vacuum left by P and no GF cuddle time lazy mornings which are far and away the best. Oxytocin is something you do not get from P or related material.

Last time I watched video P was mid-march, 1 clip and I don't even really know why as I'd already been off it for a good month and a half but it made me recognise the semi-conscious power of impulse. For audio I think it was early-mid june the last time and even then it was very sporadic but I got fed up. Recordings of my girlfriend doing her thing have gotta be the same right. Reading erotica would be late March, erotica is an absolute killer for me as my exposure to it has probably been more than video porn and for longer.

Observing my own porn genre use I'll make reference to something I said earlier, I often found porn to be a bit gross and fake. Particularly if it was heterosexual sex so I looked around and found female masturbation to be much subtler and erotic for me and I think that formed the basis of my tastes and quite tragically a large part of my sexual curiosity and education was exposure to this. Kinkier genres would gross me out; I could on occasion get as far a group sex but from there into fetishes and tranny/gay it never really occurred to me and never caught my attention. But the search for novelty within the genres I liked led to me noticing the same clips again and again, familiar territory so the hunt would always be on for something new. I even dabbled in webcam stuff but never actually paid or participated and often the sites didn't load in my old computer. Not trying it on my new one. And don't feel the urge to.

Who notices that after like a week no M that you just have so much more energy to like, get ye' some? Like I wasn't really ever used to having the urge to go up to girls but after some abstinence it's like, 'Hey, I think you're really attractive, I'd love to chat over a coffee.' Then based on whether they buy their own coffee or expect me to do it the conversation would last more or less time. Right well I have a girlfriend (but not here) so I don't do it but boy o boy do I start to see just how good she looks etc. But like to the point where I'd act on it.

 

[Vincent]

I completely understand that. I have the same feeling - abstaining from PMO for just 4 days makes me horny as hell and I feel attracted to every woman that fits my profile. Of course I don't go any further than smiling at her but the feeling is great - you feel more vivid and attractive.

Regarding your state man, i have to express my respect. You really seem to have started to push porn out of your mind. I keep that as an inspiration.

Keep it up and eventually porn will just be a thing you once did but do not care about anymore.

 

[skrodriguez]

Vincent, in response to your 'MA thesis' : on your own journal, to which I responded what is below, I'm reposting it here in my own journal so as to have it as a record where I reflect on what you say and relate it to my own experience with regard to long term behavioural patterns. When you said you 'successfully' rebooted some time ago, it is interesting to then go on to read about the resumption of prior behaviours. I can understand this preoccupation because I have had it myself, not from personal experience but I have asked myself...'like what if nothing changes afterwards?' Observing my own impulses and triggers over periods of abstinence I have come to realise that (before PMOing) and more recently FMOing (Fantasy) is something I have used to deal with loneliness, strees or frustration - factors which are conditioned by my life situation. Unless that situation changes it is conceivable that this 'treatment' could remain a problem. Reflecting on this I saw the benefit of a number of things:
[list type=decimal]
[*]Abstince as a form of breaking a pattern of behaviour. I've observed how much it is habit and brain-craving that makes me think I'm horny when it's as lifeless as can be down there.
[*]That that which I 'craved' and fantasized about was the voyeuristic, detached or masturbatory aspects. Not sex.
[*]It's pure impulse behaviour, which means I'm not in control of something.
[*]The philosopher Stefan Molyneux said something very interesting:

"Whenever we have an emotion that repeats, it's because we are not describing its origin truthfully."

I would feel anxiety but I wouldn't really investigate why or what for. This is still really relevant for me because without the MO I have to learn to deal with this stuff and feel that if I don't, the reboot won't help change my behaviour so while the reboot may be a necessary part, it's not everything. It gives me the breathing room to havea look at myself, but from there I need to work on my response and relationship to dealing with anxiety, no matter its cause. I currently have to, I won't say 'battle', but 'remain conscious' of mood swings and a desire to blame others if I feel bad when it's rooted in the same emotion. This is not easy and I don't always execute this very well. Particularly not in a distance relationship where loneliness, pettiness and bitterness can creep in easily.
[/list]



I've been in therapy for the last couple of months, journaling (outside of this forum) and really just coming face to face with the raw and rough side of aspects of my own character and personality under duress and in difficulty. People see a composed exterior but the amount of emotional energy expended in realising and practising self-knowledge is completely huge! I was borderline to fail units at the university in the last semester and I didn't even have a full time load. In the end I applied myself and actually ended up doing really well but it was not easy. Point is the emotional energy and attention needed to honestly examine and work on aspects of yourself has got to be one of the hardest things to do. You have to do it. You have to be willing to lower yourself down into the muck of one's own prejudices and insecurities and self-maintained illusions which bubble forth in irrational or impulsive behaviours or addictions. This brought another quote to mind...

"Most of what you see in the world is personal history and biological evolution masquerading as some sort of intellectual gobbledegook."

- Stefan Molyneux​

Coming to terms with my own past experiences, discarding unconcsiously held beliefs perhaps given to me by others is a work in progress but fuck it's hard! Because in a large way it's about my own identity. Sometimes I want to lash out at others who I see to be cruising, or if they whinge about something I had to confront myself and I did it silently, it makes me want to weigh in and start shredding. Why? Because I went through it and see them trying to cop out and blame others or whinge which I see as pathetic and lazy but rather than help them I'd just go head to head with them. Not helpful. They'll feel judged or rage around but nothing get's resolved. No. Wooo saaaa. Why did I even want to respond that we in the first place? Easier just to let it float by you, recognise the gaslighting and that it's really just their issues which I'm happy to talk about but not in an antagonistic way. I'll just focus on myself in the meantime. Why did I want to rip into them? Got my own stuff.


Last couple of days have had their uncomfortablenesses. Urges for stimulus have arisen but the best thing I have found is doing something else. There's nothing like distraction.

 

[Vincent]

Skrodriguez,
in what you are writing one can really read about "hard times". But your approaching it the right way I think. Your life, your problem, your solution. This works for everybody else regardless the background.
I would say the most compicated part of curing an addiction is to understand, how addicted onself is. In order to do this, selfconsideration is inevitable. I still can only wonder about what I have thought about myself and how I percived myself everytime I am confronted with new aspects of my personality that I did not see or did not want to acknowledge before.
From what I have read in other journals so far this is pretty much the normal way of exploring one's personality.
With accepting that one has to cope with the same shit as others but with an own approach, I think the basic step to realizing an therefore also solving the problem is done. You seem to have gotten there which I congratulate you to.

 

[skrodriguez]

@Vincent
Thanks. Having read your journal and replies in mine, I'm at once pleasantely surprised and not really surprised that you were able to enter into and empathise with the extent of my (and indeed everyone's) battle in the way that you said: that it is the same but different for each individual.



I?ve been reading around the forum, and the nofap forum and I'm loving the support I see people giving each other. It's really good. It's the kind of genuine commitment one finds when people are self-motivated by something and come together to achieve. It's good stuff. Thumbs up boys and girls.


*monologue warning*

I find a distance relationship a great challenge, but I am also quite an intense person. I set myself high standards and my mistake can be assuming that others need to stick to them. I wonder how much of this comes from trying to control others, which is of course impossible so I end up making myself anxious when the inevitable happens. What does this have to do with rebooting? Well quite possibly more than is immediately apparent. Changing a behaviour previously employed whereby I used to masturbate to medicate against anxiety, stress and boredom can exacerbate those difficulties and a dishonest way of coping with this is to blame others for one's emotional and personal turmoil. If the problem can be externalised then one doesn't have to confront oneself. While I would also say a relationship is a two-way interaction and mine is a little one sided in terms of intitiative, creativity and effort, I need to keep in mind what I wrote at the top and realise the true origin of the repeating emotion; to describe it properly.

It is quite truly the case that my dissatisfaction at times would simply escalate, no matter the input - it is fueled by emotional imbalance and changes in which my reboot are playing an important part. I think not having masturbation as an anxiety medication and the brain-high of fantasy, the difficult becomes more difficult. Lack of sleep makes it much worse.

I also have an unfulfilling job as a traffic controller, which is not mentally stimulating or engaging and leaves me many many hours of enforced boredom to brood on my situation. But I need the money and it's short term. I can justify it all away but that doesn?t make the daily grind any easier. Having an end date, a goal, and it being as good as it is is absolutely essential and makes me want to do this right. I lose nothing but doing this, and stand to gain a great deal, as much from the result of better sexual sensitivity and performance as from a profound and hard won understanding of my emotional self. It's rough and raw self-knowledge. It?s will-power and it will be the difference. Without trying to sound all self-help, I think the ability to apply will-power, to just remain persistent at something even when it's pure drudgery at times develops a person's character in an absolutely essential way. How much of our impulse driven drink, binge, drug, shallow diversion, fuckathon culture comes from this almost primal need to avoid self-knowledge? Perhaps because will power is f$"%ing hard! I've had tough exams at university, tough days at work, tough/awkward situations to deal with but I have never had anything as hard as therapy, this reboot and the pursuit of self-knowledge. There have been times I have felt I'm on the edge of not coping, of dropping the ball entirely and wouldn't say I'm out of it yet. I really believe it needs to be accompanied by a goal though. This isn't to say I'm living in some sort of hell, no no, just that it's tough, and not very rewarding right now, you know, deferred gratification. Arrhg. Hahaha.

I would say I had one of the most difficult days of my reboot thus far. It started with a lack of sleep, never a good thing and something I have already red flagged ahead of time as being danger territory. Then I'm at work on some cold footpath and my girlfriend Whatsapps me telling me she's just masturbated and how horny she still is and I can feel my brain going into runaway mode. I find this fascinating to observe. This is the porn expectation dopamine surge and it is amazing to reflect in the moment on the profound physical effects which manifest. It is every sense of the word 'amazing'. Time to steer that one of at the hilt....and then her internet cuts out and I'm left there (gratefully) self-analysing.

Went for a long bike-ride after work in 8 degree weather which is kind of like a cold shower plus exercise all in one. So a challenging day, but an interesting one too. Onward!

</monologue>

EDIT: just bumped up my counter! The idea was for two months, but I'll be doing more than that. It'll be at least 70 days so may as well just put that on the counter however shit is may be to see your progress 'go backwards' so to speak. Hahahaha!

 

[Promise]

It's both a gift and a boon to one's self to be able to inwardly reflect and write so honestly about your feelings and personal foibles as you have done.  I've found out over the past couple of days how therapeutic it is to write about your emotions and describe your coping mechanisms, both good and harmful ones.  It also helps identify which of your coping strategies you need to alter, just as you have done!

How did you learn to write so openly?  Seems like life is throwing some challenges your way right now, but from what I've read from you, you're more than strong enough to overcome them.

Have you told your partner what you're going through?  Being open about your recovery with your partner can be very helpful, and also let them know that it might not be such a good idea to send messages such as the one you received that caused you to go into 'runaway mode'.  I also know that feeling.  It's like all the blood in your body rushes to your head (and actually causes a 'head rush' feeling similar [I find] to tobacco).  On top of that it makes the roof of my mouth dry and tingly.  It's incredible to observe in the moment, much like you described!

 

[Vincent]

I would say I had one of the most difficult days of my reboot thus far. It started with a lack of sleep, never a good thing and something I have already red flagged ahead of time as being danger territory. Then I'm at work on some cold footpath and my girlfriend Whatsapps me telling me she's just masturbated and how horny she still is and I can feel my brain going into runaway mode. I find this fascinating to observe. This is the porn expectation dopamine surge and it is amazing to reflect in the moment on the profound physical effects which manifest. It is every sense of the word 'amazing'. Time to steer that one of at the hilt....and then her internet cuts out and I'm left there (gratefully) self-analysing.

and nevertheless you jump to 70 days. This alone shows the extend of your will, your ambition and your determination. Every hard challange is only as hard as we make it seem (i think I read that in another journal here - having no quote, though).

Selfconfrontation is little satisfactory, terribly difficult and never ending....however: it also means that you are the one pulling the strings, questioning your actions and deciding your future. Everyone that realized that has learned a great deal about live. I personally have the feeling that this no PMo challenge is leading me (and probably many others here) towards this confrontation with one's own character and habits. may be brutal sometimes but it is the plain, simple, real truth. And by accepting that the pathway through it becomes obvious.

What Promise wrote about writing down one's thoughts I can only bolster. I was in a distant relation ship as well and made many mistakes by improvidently writing or saying what I felt in that moment. I began a private journal, where I wrote down all my thoughts and even hypothetical letters to my GF. After reading them the next day it became obvious that I just needed to blow off some steam, rendering the content quasi ridiculous.... I started to read the journal now again keeping me laughing at times about how silly and unexperienced I was. And then I think: what about the lines I write now and read in five years? It probably will be the same. I got tons to learn ;D

You are on a good rout. And I am confident that you made a good choice, taking this route.

 

[skrodriguez]

I don't have work tomorrow, but I'll push myself to get up earlyish, as getting up too close to lunch time messes with my schedule a bit.

Helloooo! I think this is a really good idea. One of my findings has been that if I show discipline in one area, it's much easier to muster it for the reboot as well. In fact reflecting on sleep I would hazard to say that with increasing stimulus we don't allow ourselves 'respiration' time. Plants photosynthesize during the day, respire at night. My experience is that the repair cycle, both physical and emotional/mental requires a rested body to support the effort. This is one great aspect about my boring job - early starts. I have to get up at 5-5:30am which means I go to bed (light out) at about 8:30pm and sleep more hours. My god does it make a difference. The time passes and I'm not in front of a backlit screen and despite being a uni student inclined to go to sleep in the wee hours, I can't because of my job and am forced to pretty much follow the light rhythm and after a period on enforced adjustment, it's actually really good. The circadian rhythm can take some time to adjust but when in sync long and regular sleep can help to regulate the body. Stress, meat and sugary foods acidify the body and an acidic body is a breeding ground for illness. Not enough sleep doesn't allow the body repair time stressing other areas. The internet is such a stimulus, and so is digital intertainment. I think all of these things are great but I do realise the effect they are having on people's rest time. I did this little test on myself regarding internet/computer (at the time not thinking to focus on porn). I stopped using it for a week during the evenings. I wanted to know what I could do instead and how much it affected me. Well at that time I didn't have Facebook (only got it recently to manage a group as secretary of a club at my uni), or Whatsapp, but was still very much a computer person. What happened?
[list type=decimal]
[*]Well I just wound up reading stuff and couldn't stay awake as long.
[*]Slept like 4 10 hour nights in a row.
[*]Without a backlit screen and the dopamine of the internet/digireality I just couldn't, ahem, keep it up! Were this not also true of other things I didn't know at the time.
[/list]



@Vincent. Thanks for the kind words!

I personally have the feeling that this no PMo challenge is leading me (and probably many others here) towards this confrontation with one's own character and habits. may be brutal sometimes but it is the plain, simple, real truth.

(as alway 'in my opinion') It takes a lot to not do something, to not indulge an impulse, to choose to do nothing over something. Furthermore to do this when no one else will hold you accountable, or even know. No one is watching. To be able live a principle in that moment, to not engage shows I think some real grit. That's the proof that someone is serious right? I mean that is this:

[quote author=Vincent]
Selfconfrontation is little satisfactory, terribly difficult and never ending....however: it also means that you are the one pulling the strings, questioning your actions and deciding your future.
[/quote]
Right?


[quote author=Vincent]
I was in a distant relation ship as well and made many mistakes by improvidently writing or saying what I felt in that moment. I began a private journal, where I wrote down all my thoughts and even hypothetical letters to my GF. After reading them the next day it became obvious that I just needed to blow off some steam, rendering the content quasi ridiculous....
[/quote]

Ay! Dammit. You just ripped the band-aid off! This is sooooo true. Been there, inflicted that. Back when my addict brain was looking for porn in my poor girlfriend I feel I pressured her in a number of things, not just sexual ones. Though these could have stemmed from the secondary effects of a downer. I won't say none of it was justified, I have some self-respect, but I am so aware that often my actions and words were manipulative. Fuck. You hit the nail on the head. That's much better now though.




Today has been much better. A good sleep and everything just flows along. It all seem much easier! I was thinking, oh god, here we go, stop me now! -

For the last....nearly six months I've been off video and image pornography. For about 4.5 months off written erotica apart from sexting and and some very sporadic cybersex with my girlfriend. But only recently have I decided in my head to really fight fantasies of those things, fantasy usuall accompanied by masturbation. Since realising I had ED and putting that together with PMO when I discovered YBOP, I worked to reduce the frequency of masturbation. I used to be the daily sort of guy. Sometimes even more than once a day, this was even without the porn for a short period. My first attempts: 9 days, 10 days, 8 days, 12 days, 7 days were often broken with cybersex and would trigger a relapse but they did teach me a lot about my trigger points and how tough and real the withdrawal was in the early stages. I remember day two shivers, the lot. Fiddle-free is an absolute IRON CLAD must have rule. No M'ing without O, no P, no PMO, no edging. Nothing. For me this is the ONLY way to do the time. Then you have to work on the brain. The less fantasy, the easier it is. Don't be tired. Don't be disciplinarian with yourself because simply imposing rules will never work if you don't actually try and understand the emotion behind the action/impulse/behaviour. Deciding not to do something and getting all dedicated about it after having just done it (MO'd) isn't an accurate or timely option because one is acting on the brain dopamine high/determination. Do it later on when you quickly get out of the house when the chaser impulse hits you and you would say 'Oh, well I've already MO'd today, might has well enjoy this one too'. At that point say you're not going to; when you're out on you're walk and then log as your first achievement NOT succumbing to the chaser effect. Good job. One massive (possibly repeating) hurdle down. You have some momentum already.

I remember hours of PMO from a while ago. Sometimes I could lose an afternoon on and off. Sometimes if I found the jackpot with some video that drove me nuts I would literally go at it till those nuts hurt. I think my record is like 7 or 8 orgasms in a day. I wasn't even ejaculating at that point. That shit is just not possible without brain-blasting super stimulus dopamine bath porn soup. It's cocaine snorted into the eyeballs that leaves you wasted afterwards. After spending some truly delicious mornings in a tent with my girlfriend, the sad patheticness of PMOing like I spoke of above just makes me wince and cringe. The cuddling, caressing and touching and....other stuff is just SOOOO much better for my overall wellbeing. Oxytocin anyday to keep the dopamine at bay. ;D


What's with this 39.9%? Like make it 40% and let me feel better! After upping my counter I've been in the 30s for EVER! Faaarck.

 

[Promise]

Boom!  40%

What a lovely thing to say! Thank you! I love languages and language in general. I speak Spanish and English and study linguistics, enjoy good rap and love poetry. I like to think I'm quite eloquent also. But eloquence doesn't necessarily help one write openly, in fact with such linguistic dexterity one can become adept at obfuscating the truth by deliving a constructive-sounding adjective salad, hiding behind verbal wankery which is why it is a prerequisite for politicians. As you put it 'writing openly' is my choice to be articulate and honest about what is happening to me. As such it is more cathartic and constructive and allows others to enter into my journey, relate to parts of it and hopefully even be able to take the good bits and help themselves as I like to do with what others write. Honestly, the effect of a genuine complement does wonders for the morale. Thanks!

Masterfully spoken as always.

Ay! Dammit. You just ripped the band-aid off! This is sooooo true. Been there, inflicted that. Back when my addict brain was looking for porn in my poor girlfriend I feel I pressured her in a number of things, not just sexual ones. Though these could have stemmed from the secondary effects of a downer. I won't say none of it was justified, I have some self-respect, but I am so aware that often my actions and words were manipulative. Fuck. You hit the nail on the head. That's much better now though.

That's something I havn't considered for a long time (mind you, it's something I havn't done for a long time) but when in long distance relationships I used to pester women for pictures and try and coerce them into sending them.  This has bought back how selfish, manipulative and destructive my actions were.  I guess a lot of us have been there!


It's great to hear that you're feeling positive, and many of the things you describe I've also been through.  Your words regarding the chaser effect are helpful, I'd imagine at some point that's a hurdle I'll need to overcome.  You're doing great, man

 

[skrodriguez]

I've come to realise that having a specific number of days as a goal is actually pointless as far as I can see it. How often to people reach their alotted 90 or 100 days and then relapse? I think I need to just accept that I really don't want to go back to porn ever and to masturbation I want to make sure it is not that I am using it in the same way. I haven't had a relapse, I just don't understand the point of the fixed number of days. I'm trying to change a behaviour right? For me porn has been absent quite a long time though fanstasy (even if involving my girlfriend) doesn't help me for where I am at the moment. Even though she's willing and has fantasies of her own, we can't act on them for now so it's all a bit pointless to go there, more specifically if I'm by myself and not talking with her where it can be fun and sort of spontaeous. I would focus more on everything else in my life that led me to want to medicate with masturbation in the first place. I don't really like 'nofap challenge' culture. I alluded to it in a prior post.

I'm also not sure where I sit with regards to porn. I don't even want to look at video/image porn at the moment. I don't feel that my reboot is really about that. I've found that masturbating to orgasm makes me feel lonely, miss my girlfriend horribly and generally just make me feel down and pathetic, which can lead to binging. So perhaps I'm further into my reboot than just one month nofap? I just stil don't feel that comfortable about my mindset. I still really do fantasize about being with my girlfriend. And I recognise that female masturbation is a strong trigger for me, it just seems to set my arousal pathways alight.

I'm not trying to erase these urges, some is natural, but if it gets in the way of functioning, and I truly believe PMO had done that with my ED with my girlfriend, then it needs to be dealt with.

I thought I could keep the whole PMO reboot thing nice and separate from the rest of my 'issues', but I think they are all connected, and M and medication was symptomatic of another lack, which now that I'm not M'ing I can at least address. I have a goal, and certain life changes that will occure afterwards so until that time I don't really think there is too much I can do about actively pursuing a romantic relationship but in the meantime I would like to give my brain and body a chance to rest from prior habits. I do still feel the urges of course, though not really for porn.

I thought this post was absolutely brilliant:
http://www.yourbrainrebalanced.com/index.php?topic=15558.0

 

[Vincent]

i am on your side with that. There is no "challenge" as such. You want porn to be outside of you interest zone. I think this is eventually the goal of all the no fap. But it is indeed easier to start in with a challenge and then to realise it on your own.

you set your goals and go after them. The rest is irrelevant. The urges you feel for your girlfriend are actually a good sign; urges are natural, so don't feel bad about it. And don't underestimate the chemistry between two people. We learned a lot about dopamine and other hormones in regard to PMO. If the rewired brain should again receive all those hormones and emotions sharing them with a partner they like, how fantastic would that feel? I am eager to find that out. perhaps you can try as well.

keep up the resolve!

 

[skrodriguez]

I like my epic posts! I do try and keep the interesting, tackling a different topic or aspect with each one.

i am on your side with that. There is no "challenge" as such. You want porn to be outside of you interest zone. I think this is eventually the goal of all the no fap. But it is indeed easier to start in with a challenge and then to realise it on your own.

I don't deny that, but I think one's reasons for beginning a reboot have to come from more than frustration, which is like a behavioural response to something which is annoying (compulsive behaviours) after it has been satiated. So PMOing and saying 'never again' and putting up all these discipline barriers to me seems insufficient recognition and incentive to actually stop those behaviours. Will power is absolutely crucial in the moment, but it needs to be guided by understanding to be effective in the long term I believe.

(People please be aware that the intention is NEVER to lecture. This is a journal and the process of writing helps me to clarify things to myself as it does to speak about my beliefs on a topic. Through writing that which was a nebulous idea, mulled and assessed is articulated and helps to solidify it into my repertoire. From there is is open to assessment and input from others which I think is the healthy outside perspective that this type of public journaling allows. It's therapeutic because all participants are naturally empathetic.)

The urges you feel for your girlfriend are actually a good sign; urges are natural, so don't feel bad about it. And don't underestimate the chemistry between two people.

You are really good at finding the pressure points in my situation  I think chemistry is great. I also totally hear you about the urges relating to my girlfriend - my dilemma is that I'm not sure I actually want to tackle them, they are natural, I'm glad they're for her and not some air-brushed fictional receptor. BUT....
I feel the impulses of my brain wanting a fix, and I turn to my girlfriend as the object of obtaining that fix together with imagination. I can't act on any of that stuff right now so it really only serves to relight prior brain pathways. I see it as a problem observing the results; it starts to become intrusive and not stop. Increased fantasy leads to increased desire for fantasy and escalation in time and content (thinking) and it all just feels like the old rushes and impulses which I think are the things that need the work.

Secondary consecuences are that it may affect my interraction with her which is then a clear indicator to me that it is a bit of a problem. Spontaneous is good, is natural, it's fun and enjoyable, but when the expectation or desire and then possibly even angst or frustration if it is not met are present, then it's no longer genuine and spontaneous. Like I said, I don't think these urges can ever be fully erased, but they can be consciously de-escalated I think. Some quiet time, impulse control and focus redirecation may be in order. I don't lose by trying, I just have to try genuinely.

I'm actually looking forward to seeing what my brain throws at me so as to get a fix. What ridiculous crap will it make me feel or impulses for what? Just make sure I'm eating well, drinking my greens, sleeping enough and busy in other stuff of which there is plenty to do. I love that I have goals, incentive for change that's tangible. I think it helps me so much. I really don't want specific time-based goals for my reboot because I'm trying to rid myself of certain behavioural responses to emotional states which arise to tell me that all is not well in my life. By focusing on that life, and going head to head with the impulses, perhaps their basis can be removed and my outlook and self-belief can change enabling successful long-term behaviour change. I don't want relapse to be an option from not having addressed what remains the underlying reason for turning to porn/masturbation.

We learned a lot about dopamine and other hormones in regard to PMO. If the rewired brain should again receive all those hormones and emotions sharing them with a partner they like, how fantastic would that feel? I am eager to find that out. perhaps you can try as well.

Definitely intend to! I think it would be splendid.

To gain some insight on the dopamine, hormones and (P)MO behaviours, I spoke with my girlfriend about her response to arousals, triggers and such. As a male for me masturbation to porn was about the rush of the porn and the relief of the orgasm. I now believe much of my 'arousal' was actually just addictive brain behaviour rather than an acurate representation of libido. Thus the urge couldn't ever really be satisfied while the emotional trigger for the behaviour remained and the brain began to rewire itself to this new super stimulus and quite possibly with frequent use, I physically came to expect my hand in a certain way. This led to...essentially compulsive behaviour and ED, some of which I will say was PA. I wouldn't say I was a compulsive masturbator, like my stats would fit in the loosely defined 'healthy' range but it was unconscious, impulse stimulus response and that is why for me it is a problem. Though as a male I reach orgasm and the refractory period kicks in and 'I'm done' for now, whatever that meant. Right, so switch to girlfriend...

Yeah there are triggers, yeah she gets aroused and her immediate response, actually part of the arousal process, is based on the idea of actually having sex with a guy, or just seeing someone attractive reminding her of prior relations and thus setting off her arousal. The arousal is based on real intimacy. Now I know men and women are different but the fact that real intimacy arouses some, while the voyeuristic and hyperthetical arouses others may explain some of the disjunct when it comes time to get it on. He/she who is aroused by the thought of intimacy will be aroused for that intimacy while he/she who is aroused by porn and associated masturbation as the answer may not.

Interesting also is the response to arousal. Does one eventually masturbate to deal with the arousal or when the stimulus goes, the impulse also goes as one focuses on something else? This has to do with how someone sees masturbation as helping/satisfying them and what their patterns of behaviour are regarding masturbation.

For me it was all I had known, so much of this is my being green. For her masturbation is/was very rarely triggered by some immediate stimulus but rather something she does now and again when she feels the itch and has the time and privacy. For her it's sensorial, rarely visual. Very interesting. Also what does she get out of it? She says it doesn't really affect her desire for real intimacy  and that having an orgasm doesn't even really leave her satisfied of that desire - it can actually increase it.(this is where women are quite different from men I think, from what I've learned). She'll enjoy it of course and usually only stop, unless interrupted, when she starts to get sore or tired or, god forbit, even bored. She does it when the urges are really strong, and it helps, but it's not a regular response to something and it seems to be in response to natural impulses and stimuli. It doesn't effect her desire or performance in the bedroom, nor does it replace it (well right now it better be replacing it!!!). She tells me she thinks about it heaps so I'm not alone.

Ok, well thanks girlfriend for 'sharing that' with everyone. I share because it's valuable to me and she remains anonymous, doesn't know I'm writing here and doesn't speak English and hasn't really asked questions anyway. The info is non-specific but the insight helpful I think in differentiating healthy from more dependent habits in regards to porn/masturbation. Of course everyone is different and frequency various even more widely amongst women than men but that is actually beside the point in this case.