Yes, we have all heared that looks doesn't matter when it comes to flirt and relationships... But that is false in most cases. Handsome guys tend to get beautiful girls. It seems so easy for them because they don't need much communication skills their looks just work for them. Lets say when you approach a girl in a club you can't impress her with your awesome inner personality or charismatic communication skills. You will be most likely insta rejected if you are not good looking... Am I wrong? Did I miss something? Then tell me why have I seen so many examples of above mentioned statement in this unfortunate reality. Even if we reboot and reset do we have chance against gifted by nature alpha males? Unfortunately this crazy century is so centred around false images and unrealistic model looks they incept in our brains through these annoying commercials... Let's discuss.
Looks really mean much?!
- Thread starter Zenreboot
- Start date
Zenreboot,
I think you're looking in the wrong places. I'm not in the singles scene, but I have to say 0% of guys I know married or in a relationship met their lady in a club. I have found that the ladies in the club are typically attached anyway. If you use some creativity and look for love not in meat-market style venues, I'd imagine you'd have better results.
I think you're looking in the wrong places. I'm not in the singles scene, but I have to say 0% of guys I know married or in a relationship met their lady in a club. I have found that the ladies in the club are typically attached anyway. If you use some creativity and look for love not in meat-market style venues, I'd imagine you'd have better results.
Kimba
Active Member
Spot on... Media and the perception of outer beauty versus intellect or common sense or just a decent person who looks ok with an ok bod without fake anything...
The world we now live in expects us to be picture perfect with white perfect teeth etc etc etc, it must be so bloody hard for the real normal people out there who just want to have a good time, I'm sorry the world has gone this way, its just bloody sad isn't it..
Nightclubs is probably not the best venue to meet but could be good for casual meets, few drinks etc, one thing that girls like once you get the chance to talk is the funny guy, also the persistent guy who compliments...looks are always the first port of call I suppose but we all have different tastes, so keep at it, you will meet, you will fail and then sometimes you will get the PRIZE ha ha.
The world we now live in expects us to be picture perfect with white perfect teeth etc etc etc, it must be so bloody hard for the real normal people out there who just want to have a good time, I'm sorry the world has gone this way, its just bloody sad isn't it..
Nightclubs is probably not the best venue to meet but could be good for casual meets, few drinks etc, one thing that girls like once you get the chance to talk is the funny guy, also the persistent guy who compliments...looks are always the first port of call I suppose but we all have different tastes, so keep at it, you will meet, you will fail and then sometimes you will get the PRIZE ha ha.
Hablablos
Active Member
Zenreboot I recommand a book called Models by Mark Manson. It covers how you can attract women and you don't have to be too handsome. This book made me realize that what I thought about dating was wrong and also pointed me to several other aspects of my addiction as well. You might find it helpful.
fapfreezone
Active Member
I think you should consider the economics of dating: supply and demand. Most men (18-25 and single) are "offering" casual sex most of the time, whereas with women it's rarer (than for men). Therefore, there is an oversupply of men in the casual sex market, even if the gender balance of single 18-25 people is 50:50 male to female, because the men are more willing. Therefore, men tend to sleep down and women to sleep up. So far, not so good for the average joe. He'll get some, but not as much as he wants.
However, more women than men are offering "relationships". Therefore, with a 50:50 sex ratio in 18-25 singles, there is an oversupply of women in the relationship market. Therefore, women wanting a relationship will have to "date down" somewhat (on average only) and men are therefore able to date up slightly when offering a relationship. Therefore, I conclude that the average joe will get more sex by offering relationships than by seeking casual sex only and he'll have that sex with a hotter woman on average.
I conclude that the above contributes significantly to women thinking it's so hard to find a good man. Firstly, it actually is, because there is an oversupply of women offering relationships, so they can't all get someone exactly on their level. Secondly, she's (18-25 woman) used to sleeping with guys slightly out of her league sometimes and may think she "can get" those guys when they actually wouldn't have a relationship with her.
The only other obvious thing is to live in a city with more women than men.
However, more women than men are offering "relationships". Therefore, with a 50:50 sex ratio in 18-25 singles, there is an oversupply of women in the relationship market. Therefore, women wanting a relationship will have to "date down" somewhat (on average only) and men are therefore able to date up slightly when offering a relationship. Therefore, I conclude that the average joe will get more sex by offering relationships than by seeking casual sex only and he'll have that sex with a hotter woman on average.
I conclude that the above contributes significantly to women thinking it's so hard to find a good man. Firstly, it actually is, because there is an oversupply of women offering relationships, so they can't all get someone exactly on their level. Secondly, she's (18-25 woman) used to sleeping with guys slightly out of her league sometimes and may think she "can get" those guys when they actually wouldn't have a relationship with her.
The only other obvious thing is to live in a city with more women than men.
Hablabos thank you for a suggestion I will check it.
FapFreeZone
Very interesting theory. I find it logical tbh. So you say that only way out for average joe is to offer serious relationships to women. But problem is sometimes men don't have time or emotion for serious relationships. Heavy work schedule, problems at work etc... And as you know men suffer more without sex then women both emotionally and physically so that contributes to tough situation for average joe. He is trapped between decision wether he neglects professional career and spares more time for a serious relationship and eventually create family or he suffers without sex because of that disproportional supply/demand. But again problem is that if he neglects his career later on his family will have to face consequences... Men have more responsibility to provide family with sufficient finances.
FapFreeZone
Very interesting theory. I find it logical tbh. So you say that only way out for average joe is to offer serious relationships to women. But problem is sometimes men don't have time or emotion for serious relationships. Heavy work schedule, problems at work etc... And as you know men suffer more without sex then women both emotionally and physically so that contributes to tough situation for average joe. He is trapped between decision wether he neglects professional career and spares more time for a serious relationship and eventually create family or he suffers without sex because of that disproportional supply/demand. But again problem is that if he neglects his career later on his family will have to face consequences... Men have more responsibility to provide family with sufficient finances.
BuddhaAwake
Active Member
Do you see the hypocrisy of criticizing women for being shallow in only giving "handsome guys" a chance when it is the attractiveness of the woman that draws the man to begin with?
then explain why do these girls seek for a man with good career and house and good nature when it comes down to a serious relationship? Whereas man still generaly look for a woman they are attracted to visually and personally? Man a d women experience attractivness differently and it shouldn't be news for you.
Kimba
Active Member
Me too I blame media, video clips. Tv all that bullshit...
Actually not sure where you all live but a great meet place of all types of people are festivals.
The big one in the states is Burning Man ...
Aussie has Rainbow Serpent and many other festivals and I'm sure other countries have things going on...
Step outside ur comfort zone and go for it
Actually not sure where you all live but a great meet place of all types of people are festivals.
The big one in the states is Burning Man ...
Aussie has Rainbow Serpent and many other festivals and I'm sure other countries have things going on...
Step outside ur comfort zone and go for it
Zen,
Just a note here. Have you read the partner section? Women suffer emotionally and physically without sex. When our men have been "releasing" like bunnies, we have suffered physically and emotionally.
As a single woman during my twenties, I can assure you going without sex also affected me emotionally and physically. And being a single mom I had to choose between providing and my children or seeking a relationship. And when women sought out sex they were labeled in a derogatory manner. And a lot of men back off if you are single with children.
Just want to clear up that men gotta have it and women don't myth. By the way when you meet the right person, they will be beautiful to you and that my friend is all that matters.
Just a note here. Have you read the partner section? Women suffer emotionally and physically without sex. When our men have been "releasing" like bunnies, we have suffered physically and emotionally.
As a single woman during my twenties, I can assure you going without sex also affected me emotionally and physically. And being a single mom I had to choose between providing and my children or seeking a relationship. And when women sought out sex they were labeled in a derogatory manner. And a lot of men back off if you are single with children.
Just want to clear up that men gotta have it and women don't myth. By the way when you meet the right person, they will be beautiful to you and that my friend is all that matters.
There's something more appealing in a 'well structured' face and a 'well formed' body. Something in our genes make these shallow qualities appealing to us. And yes, people want to make money out of that and put specific images on magazines selling cars and on TV selling things as random as cheeseburgers.
In my teens and 20s I set myself up for disappointment and disastrous relationships because all I was after was a 'well structured' face and a 'well formed' body.
Then I realised, what I was after was stupid. I think it was while I was going out with a pretty girl who was horrible to me in our relationship, and I wasn't having any fun because we had nothing in common. I thought, 'Why the hell am I going out with her?'
So I saw the light. some people might call it growing up. I understood looks don't mean much, and that i'd acted like an idiot for 20 years. Then I realised that adverts, movies and society does everything it can to take advantage of the fact that many people think that way. I realised watching porn doesn't help at all when you want to see people as people.
And it sounds like you've achieved the same understanding. you've realised you've been made to think a certain way, and advertisers have taken advantage of that. it's time to be Mr Cool, it's time to be Mr Nice (sorry, I'm assuming you're a guy - wasn't clear in your post). Now you can step back and laugh at shallow companies trying to manipulate you. 'A woman in a bikini? That's supposed to make me want to buy a cheeseburger? What's the connection?' You'll be happier and a better life will open up to you.
In my teens and 20s I set myself up for disappointment and disastrous relationships because all I was after was a 'well structured' face and a 'well formed' body.
Then I realised, what I was after was stupid. I think it was while I was going out with a pretty girl who was horrible to me in our relationship, and I wasn't having any fun because we had nothing in common. I thought, 'Why the hell am I going out with her?'
So I saw the light. some people might call it growing up. I understood looks don't mean much, and that i'd acted like an idiot for 20 years. Then I realised that adverts, movies and society does everything it can to take advantage of the fact that many people think that way. I realised watching porn doesn't help at all when you want to see people as people.
And it sounds like you've achieved the same understanding. you've realised you've been made to think a certain way, and advertisers have taken advantage of that. it's time to be Mr Cool, it's time to be Mr Nice (sorry, I'm assuming you're a guy - wasn't clear in your post). Now you can step back and laugh at shallow companies trying to manipulate you. 'A woman in a bikini? That's supposed to make me want to buy a cheeseburger? What's the connection?' You'll be happier and a better life will open up to you.
The truth is Looks do matter - and thats okay! Looks aren't everything, BUT personality isn't everything either!
Also I think its about making the best of yourself! self-care is sexy!
If you are attracted to attractive people you've got to put in the effort
I often find the people saying 'no-one will have me, are also doing their fair share of rejection too, so.... 'no-one will have me' = no one I WANT wants me!
Those who really don't care about looks are usually the most lucky!
Also I find the allure of a good looking person GREAT motivation for no-fap.... thats my prize!
Also I think its about making the best of yourself! self-care is sexy!
If you are attracted to attractive people you've got to put in the effort
I often find the people saying 'no-one will have me, are also doing their fair share of rejection too, so.... 'no-one will have me' = no one I WANT wants me!
Those who really don't care about looks are usually the most lucky!
Also I find the allure of a good looking person GREAT motivation for no-fap.... thats my prize!
getagrip
Active Member
I'm 66 and recently divorced and am trying to get back into dating. I have read some books on dating and watched videos by so-called dating gurus, etc. etc. Most of what I am seeing/reading emphasize the opinion that you have to be an Alpha Male to get the girl. One guy comes right out and tells you how to use and manipulate women to get them to sleep with you. For these guys it's all about "Seduction Science" and how to change yourself into the kind of guy women supposedly want. Now I am open to the idea of learning some new techniques and approaches but I refuse to change the essence of who I am just to get laid. I will not compromise my integrity even if means going without sex or a girlfriend. Like you, I am introverted and intellectual while not lacking in self-confidence. I am never going to be an Alpha Male. If I can't get a woman by being who I am-- caring, thoughtful, funny, a good listener, and compassionate-- then I will continue my life alone. My hope and belief is that the kind of person I am will be attractive to a woman.
Am I being naive?
Am I being naive?
fapfreezone
Active Member
getagrip said:
The arguments of dating coaches for men can typically be summarised thusly:
1) You need to be an alpha male to be able to have any normal kind of interactions with women
2) You are not an alpha male
3) I can teach you how to be one
4) You just have to buy my overpriced ebook/dvd set/live course in order for me to teach you
5) Or maybe you need to buy all three!
N.B. if you've only seen youtube videos by PUA's, notice they usually provide links to external websites where you can buy said ebooks, dvd's and live courses. They don't do it for free.
Premise (1) must be false (lets not even get started on 4 and 5!) because if women only found alpha males attractive and only slept with alpha males, all beta males would have died out through evolution. Humans have been evolving for hundreds of thousands of years, or maybe millions (I believe it depends on what you count as the first human, but i'm not sure of any dates), so we just wouldn't have any beta males if women only found alpha males attractive and therefore only slept with them.
If you told the above to a PUA (neglecting points 1-5), he'd probably say: "Dude, hunter-gatherer women had to sleep with whoever was still alive, they had to sleep with beta males". However, those same PUA's will tell you that women will ONLY sleep with men they have chemistry with and also that they couldn't develop chemistry for a beta male. This is contradictory and disproves the PUA hypothesis (i'm not saying alpha males aren't more attractive, just that beta males can be attractive too, BTW).
The PUA hypothesis is based on psychology research, which actually finds (regularly and repeatedly) that alpha males are more attractive to women, all other things being equal, not that beta males are 100% unattractive regardless of any redeeming features. More recently, I have heard that it has found that alpha males are better for casual encounters, but beta males are often better for relationships (more sensitive, better at listening to and understanding her, less likely to argue or cheat, etc etc)
If there's something you want to learn from PUA's, it's this:
1) How to be smooth
2) That you need to sell yourself
1 is just give her compliments, appreciate her, pay attention to her, etc. 2 is just to say good things about yourself and not criticise yourself, because on a date, she's gonna like you more if you say good things about yourself! You can still be self-deprecating on occasion, if it's funny, you just need to not be almost trying to persuade her your no good. I'm not saying you would, but some guys do (I was very self-critical at a younger age).
If you want straight male dating advice from someone who isn't a PUA, try "Changing your Game" by Christie Hartman
N.B. I've stated all the above rather confidently. This is just because i'm a self-assured person. I do think it's true, but it's just my opinion. It's hard to prove evolutionary psychology because it's hard to test the theories or collect real world evidence (compared to testing how much friction you get rolling a ball down a slope, for example).
aquarius25
Respected Member
I think that if you are really wanting a long term relationship to be successful they have to fall in love with who you are, not some fake facade. The best way to do that is to build relationships. Go out and join clubs, do activities that you love doing, serve in some capacity doing something you have a talent for. You will build friendships with others who have the same interests. Relationships that form from friendships and have base of common interests, I have found, are more successful. Besides would you really want to be with someone who you have nothing in common with? Also if you say that your hobbies don't involve other people than your still looking for excuses. There are groups for everything, there is even a groups in a town next to ours that meets to play solitaire together, lol!!! No matter your interest there is a community of people of like minds. If you can't see that then maybe your not actually interested in a relationship with someone after all, lol. You just gotta go out and say hi, make a friend, and love will find you, and in the meantime you will have friend to hang with!
N
Numez
Guest
Zenreboot said:
you are right, being ugly af definitely makes it harder to have a girl but thats why its easy for me to be single, at least its not my fault. im feeling better than single handsome guys who lack money to go to clubs or heart to approach some cutie pie on the street.