Its not cheating!

[Lauralou82]

So on top of my idiot other half not yet being able to see he's not only wired himself up to have a separate sex life all on his own. I now have to deal with the "it's not cheating" hurdle!

"Every guy does it so are they all cheating" rem well not every guy replaces their partner with it, it doesn't effect their sex life with their partner and if given a choice they'd choose their partner every time no question! THAT IS NOT WHAT IM DEALING WITH THOUGH IS IT!

He can't yet see that he's trained his thoughts in a lot of ways to be pretty much comparable to a psychopath when it comes to me. Of course he doesn't want to consider me - or he'd have had to a knowledge what he was doing is wrong and that's ate into all sorts of areas..... Right down to something as simple as taking the full pack of cigarettes without a thought of leaving one in case I fancied one. Is he concerned I haven't had my hair trimmed in over six months - is he he'll!

I woke up upset this morning and he'd cuddled into me from behind before he noticed. He couldn't get away from me fast enough! All I needed to do was have a cry and fall back asleep again (in sure you know what I mean) but he kept prodding and poking me verbally and acts as if I have no right to be upset that he replaced me with pixels! That was my place! Somewhere in his head and heart, the place where his sexual urges and need for connection come from that was supposed to be reserved just for me!

And now I'm being told I'm weird for seeing it as cheating! He's conditioned himself to negate me so deeply that all he cares about in this situation is what I might say to other people or how he could appear...... Surely he should be able to see that if he hadn't done anything wrong then he wouldn't even have to deal with that worry - even his own mind is telling him what he's done!

If he reboots like he has said he will he's going to be mortified when he can see the extent of the effect this has had on his behaviour towards me and also how it has stunted him.

I can see the trains coming and it's going to ve a wreck!

Either that or hes going to take the easy option and run away and take all this craps into another relationship - the sad thing is that even if that was the case I'd still want him to address this and get better... It's spoiling and wasting his life! The idiot can't even recognize he is loved!

Aaarrrrgggghhhh!

 

[chickaboomski]

Oh LouraLou how I wish I could give you hope that light is just around the corner. Instead all I have is sympathy and understanding that I know where you are at and how long my road has been.
Hopefully your case is different. In case, choose to ride this ride now, buckle up and know that you are not the driver. Know that you deserve all the love and respect you desire and he is incapable now and maybe for a while of giving you that. Which is why YOU and only you are capable of healing you and realizing that you are worthy. Work on you and your healing right now. Because waiting around for him to wake up is a who knows scenario. My man is still coming to grips 2 years from me starting jumping up and down. And he ain't here, researching, understanding the full extent of it. Not sure he will ever be to be honest. He has come to the physical side of things and he knows his addiction hurts me. Not aure how much longer it will take or what level of low it will take him. But I have invested so much time and wealth into me. Because I am worth it and I finally believe it. Hold on and good luck Sweet Xx

 

[chickaboomski]

JKS I wish I had read that a year ago. Amazing source. Thanks!

 

[Lauralou82]

THANK YOU!

Apparently I was "weird" for seeing it as cheating..... I believe 100% it is. If it happens again it's over - my partner is rebooting but he's convinced it a not addiction based - just habitual and residue from being in a long distant relationship well before me.

We're reviewing in three months - so our relationship may be over already if there's no change by then.

Fingers crossed.

 

[aquarius25]

I think men focus on the actual sex. If there isn't physical contact then its not cheating in their minds. I would argue that they are wrong in the way they view cheating. It isn't the actual pulling your penis out and rubbing it that causes the hurt, its the dishonesty. When you talk to people who are in relationships that the partner has actually gone and had sex with someone else the sex wasn't what hurt the most, it way the lie. That is where the broken trust comes from. If your partner never hid this and was always very up front about it, it would be a different story. The deception and lies are where the "cheating" comes from. It makes you feel like they are keeping something from the relationship when you are bringing everything to it. It is one sided all while they are giving the illusion of it being open and honest. That is where the hurt comes from. I am going to step out and reveal something and make myself vulnerable (we don't really tell anyone about this much because there is a lot of judgement that goes with it) so please don't be too harsh to judge. A few years back, (you could say our seven year itch) my husband and I experimented with a poly-amorous relationship. We both ended up having sex with another person. The difference was we communicated the entire time. When things came up we talk to each other in detail about our feelings. We decided it just wasn't our thing (and looking back I realized he was hoping that would take the pressure off his PIED, lol). The interesting thing is we have discussed it quite a bit over the years and neither of us harbor anything toward each other because it was so open, there was permission and communication. D-day was so very different. That is how I know porn is cheating. Lying is always cheating, it just destroys everything.

 

[malando]

I think men focus on the actual sex. If there isn't physical contact then its not cheating in their minds. I would argue that they are wrong in the way they view cheating. It isn't the actual pulling your penis out and rubbing it that causes the hurt, its the dishonesty. When you talk to people who are in relationships that the partner has actually gone and had sex with someone else the sex wasn't what hurt the most, it way the lie. That is where the broken trust comes from. If your partner never hid this and was always very up front about it, it would be a different story. The deception and lies are where the "cheating" comes from. It makes you feel like they are keeping something from the relationship when you are bringing everything to it. It is one sided all while they are giving the illusion of it being open and honest. That is where the hurt comes from. I am going to step out and reveal something and make myself vulnerable (we don't really tell anyone about this much because there is a lot of judgement that goes with it) so please don't be too harsh to judge. A few years back, (you could say our seven year itch) my husband and I experimented with a poly-amorous relationship. We both ended up having sex with another person. The difference was we communicated the entire time. When things came up we talk to each other in detail about our feelings. We decided it just wasn't our thing (and looking back I realized he was hoping that would take the pressure off his PIED, lol). The interesting thing is we have discussed it quite a bit over the years and neither of us harbor anything toward each other because it was so open, there was permission and communication. D-day was so very different. That is how I know porn is cheating. Lying is always cheating, it just destroys everything.

I think this post nails it, A25.

In my situation, my partner did know that I was looking at porn, she just didn't know that it was getting to be a problem for me. Therefore she didn't feel I had cheated on her when I finally told her. I was afraid to tell her, but I eventually did. She was very matter of fact about it when I did. She wasn't upset, more surprised. Now, the same behaviour in a different context produces a whole different response from a partner. If the partner didn't know about it, it can feel exactly like cheating because it was done in secret and it damaged the relationship and the self-esteem of the partner. I think men do focus totally on the sexual fantasy element and ignore the lying and neglect they are doing. It's the lying that causes the most damage (although ruining the sex life is also devastating). As you say, it destroys everything. It's fairly academic what word we use to describe this. Whether it's called "cheating" or something else, it's most certainly very destructive, hurtful, demoralising, deceptive, trust-destroying. Those are the things that have to be addressed, not so much winning the argument about whether or not it fits a dictionary definition of cheating.

 

[chickaboomski]

Again I totally agree it is the deception. Like Marlandos partner I knew my partner watched porn from the very start of our relationship. I never had a problem with it. We had awesome sex but he never ejaculated and although at the start I was curious why I didn't put it together. We had a weekends only relationship for a very long time due to him working away through the week in forrestry. It wasn't until months later our weekends would be sexless for some times 3 weeks in a row I started to wonder why he was not interested. I searched his stuff to see if he  was in contact with anyone else. I was a little upset to see his search history  was porn binges the second our weekends ended, and eventually we went on our first holjday together with my kids. He would go to the toilet for an hour each morning and opt to stay in the room while I took the kids down to the pool. At this stage he had ejaculated maybe 4 or 5 times our whole relationship and I was no longer enjoying the sex I did get. I was starting to feel the distance and went searching for answers. After I confronted him with it. Thats when he started to hide it. Thats when the lies and covering up began and THAT is the point the trust broke. I went batshit crazy. Snooping. Playing detective and even using a hidden camera app in my phone and leaving it hidden while I went to work. To me I felt cheated the second the intimacy stopped and the distance started. I felt like it was a full blown affair when he started to hide his use and decieved me by telling me he was not addicted and would just stop. And had stopped so he said. He cut down. But the delayed or no ejaculation would still happen but not all the time at like at the start. He doesn't see it as cheating. Never did. Still doesn't. But he does finally understand how it has effected my self esteem. Baby steps.  But progress.

 

[malando]

It's interesting. I'm now coming to see why the fallout for my relationship was not like most of you here. There wasn't a significant deception component. That's the difference. She already knew. I had never lied about it. She had used it too. The only thing I concealed was that I was starting to become concerned about the distraction issue when we had sex. Eventually I told her, and she was ok. So essentially I was spared all the emotional drama in our relationship because we didn't have a huge trust issue to work on. All I had to do was work on getting porn out of my life. I'm grateful it was that simple because I can see all the hell you folks are going through.

 

[Firstbigstep]

Ladies,

Your honesty and bravery in posting here are awe inspiring.

I've ruined the three major relationships of my life, largely through my porn dependence. I didn't know this until November 17th last year, when I heard a radio show about PIED. It has become apparent to me that my problems are WAY deeper than a mere sexual dysfunction - this is about who I am and who I had become and reconciling the two.

The biggest insight into where I have gone astray has been reading the accounts of you, the partners of porn addicts. Time and again I find myself in tears as I read your accounts of the corrosive effects of porn use in your relationships and see a reflection of what I've been guilty of in the past.

Reading this thread has been another bolt from the blue - the stark realisation that my porn use WAS cheating. I'd never looked at it like that. I now know it.

Your pain and suffering is testament to the damage porn can do. A distillation of it should be the front page warning for every porn website and should be handed to every twelve year old boy to read. There would be far fewer broken relationships and far fewer damaged men and hurt partners.

I can't fix the damage I've done in the past, but I am committed to supporting others through this forum, through my efforts in publicising the problem via the BBC (I'm being interviewed live next Friday on BBC Radio5 live- gulp!) I'm also committed to being a) porn free and b) the best me I can be for any future partner(s)

Thank you all for your huge insight into the life of a PA's partner - without it, I'd have no idea of who I am and how to progress.

If any of you ever need an honest male perspective, feel free to ask.

 

[chickaboomski]

Marlando I think my partner had that realization, but when I brushed it off because I was not aware that it was porn capable of being so addictive it was the cause of everything. I often wonder if I had of taken him seriously if things would have been different. Because at that stage I was so uneducated and thought myself off being "Not a prude" that I didn't really understand. I think that free pass allowed it to get worse. It was a drunken conversation. Him saying how he would get on the net on ebay and BAM end up on porn. I wish I had of taken that more seriously. Because it was ever so distant not long after that. And so on. That kudos to you for not putting your partner through the heartache.

 

[chickaboomski]

Firstbigstep. Welcome. Kudos for taking the first big step, and coming to the understanding of how it effects partners and the damage it has done. Only way is up.

 

[Lauralou82]

Cloud cuckoo land is right..... We're not the ones choosing the imaginary over our real life partners though.

 

[aquarius25]

Yes it is true that we are not the ones who have chosen to look at porn over being with our partners. I have felt that way a lot and felt like a victim quit a bit but I have finally realized that I am not the victim. I may not have chosen that but I am choosing to be with him, knowing that he has done this. I choose (and this is just my personal choice) to not focus on what he did to me, but rather to assess the situation from here forward. Take in the fact of our history and realize that I am committing to moving forward with him. I am going to stand beside him and we are going to support each other in recovering from this shit, and recover/ safe our relationship and our life together. He may have chose this but as his wife, I took vows becoming one with him. I am responsible for my life and where I choose to be and who I choose to be with. I am working on not playing the blame game but healing, letting go, and forgiving. Sorry if I would hard or extreme, and I most certainly know not everyone is in the same place as I am. We all have our own recovery and timing for everything. I just know that this change in perspective and attitude has been so amazingly helpful, healing and groundbreaking for me. I hope that by sharing maybe it will help someone else as well. I have nothing but love for all of you!

 

[chickaboomski]

So awesome you are the A25! I am there now and I feel so much more in control of my life, my feelings, and my craziness. I still slip into crazy land but I recognize it and pull myself back out pretty quickly as opposed to at the start. Yay! Keep up the fight for your marriage!

 

[stillme]

Everyone has to decide for themselves what they are worth. For some, marriage at all costs is the answer. For others, they demand to be treated with respect and want everyone in the marriage to be committed to the vows, not just one person. It all depends in the type of marriage you want. I, for one, demand a relationship in which both individuals are equally committed.

 

[Lauralou82]

Yes... Equal commitment is a must (that's what I thought we had - more so considering his previous partner cheated on him.... But that was with a person)

He says he can see now that it was cheating - but not to the same extent. I think he knows it Is. This then was followed by a long talk after I'd had to leave work because I was so upset.

He's still trying to minimize and deny things but I now know that he KNOWS what he's done - to our relationship and to me.

He's still not actively seeking out information on the reboot so I'm not sure he knows what to expect. He did tell me yesterday that he hadn't used porn since I found out - I think he's telling the truth. He won't admit to "self servicing" the day before though.... I know he did. He has no idea the difference in his attitude towards me as well as how he physically carries himself. We live together.... Of course I can tell.... I can feel it in my gut!

He needs to know there is no room for lies, secrets and sneaking in our relationship (if we make it) and because of his behaviour and the effects it's had there's no room for porn EVER or for him having a solo sex life anymore.

I know I deserve a full and genuine relationship - I'm not going to settle for less. I've got kids looking at me as an example of their future relationships ffs!

 

[aquarius25]

Well I understand that not all of our partners are int he same place.  I know my husband is taking responsibility for what he has done and he is communicating what he is doing to improve. If he were still in a state of denial I might be in a very different place. I can't say for sure because I am not there. I hold no judgement towards anyone and where they are at. Its a process, we are all in different places. I was just trying to share where I am at and a view point that has been helpful to me.

I also want to say that being 100% committed to marriage doesn't mean you are sacrificing being respected. I am sorry, Stillme if you feel that way. That wasn't my intention to insinuate. Marriage should be equal but I will say one thing I have learned in being married for 13 years (I know that is just a blink compared to others, lol) is that marriage is more like a tide. You hit bumps in the road. You both can't be 100% all the time. When I was pregnant with out second child (our daughter) I got very sick. I was in the hospital numerous times. I was sent home with an IV pole and nausea medication that was administered into my stomach 24hr per day.  The almost put a pic line in too(that is an IV into your heart) This was for the entire 36 weeks. I had 3 blood transfusions all while trying to be a mom to a 1yr old little boy. On my 27th birthday I got preeclampsia and went in for a 4 hr surgery that included a c-section, gal bladder removal, kidney repair, liver repair and another blood transfusion. That was a hard time. Pregnancy is supposed to be exciting but I was so sick and depressed. I can honestly say I wasn't 100% for him at that time. I was probably not being 100% respectful either, I was really depressed and sick and just trying to hold it together for our little boy. I know that was a time where he carried a lot of the load. Life happens, I think there are times in marriage that it's not always even. Sometimes one person does have to step in and help a little more than another but eventually the tide rolls back out and things level out. Its part of being partners. I love my husband and am happy to step in when he needs me more because I know 100% if the table were turned he would do the same for me. But that is just the dynamic of our relationship, every is different and that's ok. And I am happy to report I now have an amazing little girl who I get to share a birthday with, lol.

 

[stillme]

I have also been married for 13 years. It doesn't matter what ups and downs we faced, I never once went outside our marriage.
Unlike many, I have had full disclosure (with a polygraph). It is important to know "what" you are being asked to forgive. There are things I would have never imagined in a million years, but also consistent with porn addiction.

Yes, it is about being strong when the other is weak, but weakness within moral integrity is not something to take lightly, not something to brush off. If cheating "just once" is okay, it hitting "just once" also okay? Bankrupting the family "just once" okay? It is about accountability and respect of both parties involved. I did absolutely nothing to "make" my husband become a porn addict or "contribute" to his porn addiction. Those were all his decisions, and no way on earth would I even consider staying in a marriage if my husband insinuated such a thing. But again, to each their own.

 

[aquarius25]

JKS, I think that is perfectly put. I think a big part of forgiveness is knowing that the future will be brighter. Knowing that they are taking the steps to take responsibility and improve. If they are still in denial then trust can never be rebuilt. I think you have set great boundaries and are doing a great job.

 

[Firstbigstep]

I'm just going to tiptoe into this arena, if I may.

What I'd like to say is in no way a request for forgiveness. Nor is it in any way meant to try to reduce the impact of our (PAs) behaviours. It certainly is NOT meant to in any way imply a desire to make any suffering you've all experienced in any way reduced in terms of its significance. Please accept that this is being said with an honest heart (if you've read any of my other posts, you'll know where I am coming from - if not, there are plenty that will give you a taste of the kind of guy I am.)

I did absolutely nothing to "make" my husband become a porn addict or "contribute" to his porn addiction. Those were all his decisions,

I'm not picking a fight with you, stillme, nor with any other partner who has been brave enough to be here and strong enough to still be with their partner. I'd just like to say, I didn't decide to become a porn addict. I didn't make that decision any more than an alcoholic, taking their first drink decided to become drink dependent.

For every 12, 13, 14 year old boy, there is a moment when they are first exposed to pornography. For the vast majority, it stays simply as an extra form of titillation - an occasional adjunct to a full and healthy relationship. That's the vast majority.

Then there's guys like me. That first contact with pornography takes us all the way, step by insidious step, down the path to end up with an addiction so strong it destroys marriages, ruins the self esteem of entirely innocent partners and wrecks lives. The fortunate ones of us end up somewhere like this. The self actualising among us decide to stop. And stop. I am, in many respects a decent, honest, caring man. I take my familial responsibilities seriously and therefore I've taken this seriously. Sadly, it has all come too late to save my marriage. But I DIDN'T KNOW I was a porn addict. I genuinely, honestly, really didn't.

But now I do. All I can do is live from that moment, doing what I can to make amends. Helping where I can, spreading the word about forums such as this, and describing the suffering I've come to understand through your posts to as large an audience as possible. I have an appointment with BBC national radio on Friday to discuss my experiences live on air. I won't pull my punches. 

I can't imagine that any of the Porn Addicts here ever imagined they would end up where they have. I didn't even know I could.

If there is any way I can help anyone here, I will do it. It is the least I can do after all the emotional damage I've caused over the past 40 years.