Article: Labiaplasty "to look better in yoga pants"

[Emerald Blue]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.sheknows.com/beauty-and-style/articles/1100949/labiaplasties-fix-camel-toe-forever/amp?client=safari

What a disturbing trend. So much of this crap is direct influence of porn on women's lives. So now we have to pretend that we don't have a vagina? These pornographic ideals about women are all about making adult women less adult, and have less visible female characteristics. Other than large breasts, of course, hence the demand for boob jobs (but that's another story).

I remember reading elsewhere on this forum about a man who started talking about the effect that women in yoga pants have on him, and if I remember correctly, possibly another man joined in with his own "me too" scenario.

I don't know about any of you here, but these days it feels absolutely horrible being a woman with all this crap permeating the culture and getting everywhere. Is there any part of a woman's body which is no longer subject to scrutiny?

And what gives men the right, what gives men permission, to scrutinise a woman's body parts, as if it's all laid out on a butcher's slab? I don't buy into this "choice" and "empowerment" crap. How many men are spending thousands of Euro/dollars/GBP on fixing their "bits"? Not many. Yet another reason why I hate porn. It is fucking tyrannical, the lengths that women are expected to go to just to be acceptable. Not beautiful, not healthy, but *acceptable* in an increasingly pornified culture.

If any men are reading this and they are guilty of doing searches on porn sites by body parts or physical characteristics then SHAME ON YOU. you played your part in creating this tyranny. I hope you are now sufficiently enlightened to call out other men when they do this sort of "body parts" scrutiny on women's bodies.

 

[AnonymousAnnaXO]

Holy shit. Okay, first off I hate yoga pants because one of my ex's had a thing for girls in yoga pants and would stare at their asses as they walked up the stairs in front of us. Yes, he would talk about it and stare in front of me. It was EXTREMELY disrespectful. So I wouldn't know that this "problem" existed. But this article makes me so angry. I personally, even though I've struggled from anorexia, don't believe in surgically altering one's body.

I am not religious, but I do believe that people should accept the body they have. There are healthy ways to improve your looks if they are that important such as getting a new haircut, or maybe exercising 3 times a week, or maybe spend a day on you and get a massage and nails done or something, but surgery??? First off, I have been guilty of asking my mom when I was in high school to get a breast reduction because I thought I was too big (I was a B back then). Society really puts way too much pressure on women. Women are NEVER good enough for "men" (boys) because we are either too big or too small, too tall or too short, too tan or too white, too this or too that. I mean the list is endless.

I have heard that there has been a surgery for your vagina, but I heard about that like a year or two ago and laughed thinking that it had to be a joke, but this is just horrendous! First off, why would anyone want to alter their vagina? Also wouldn't it take away pleasure?? Just a thought. But women should be able to be accepted the way they are. Men aren't scrutinized to this degree. Men aren't chastised for not shaving down there, or for not having the perfect dick (in reality who fucking cares). Honestly, physical appearance is just that - physical appearance. At the end of the day, your looks are going to face no matter how much surgery you get. Shouldn't the person matter? Really, women should invest in their personality, not their looks.

Men should APPRECIATE Natural Beauty! First off would you rather have a natural women, where when you caress her it feels like a human, or would you rather huge rock hard boobs (as the middle school boys joked about one mom getting surgery and hearing that the husband complained about how different they felt) and an altered vagina??? Seriously? This is the most ridiculous thing.

Luckily my partner loves natural beauty. With my anorexia, I have been very self-conscious about how big my boobs are, and I've mentioned how much easier it would be if they were smaller and my partner gets very angry that I would even think to alter my body because he loves my natural looks. I might not like my natural looks but I do my best to accept them, wear what looks nice, and improve the person I am.

The more women work on their personalities, the more they are saying to society, "We are Human/People" and the more women work on their physical looks by surgery they are essentially saying, "We are Sexual Objects"

Sorry for the rant but this article really got me going.

 

[malando]

Porn has definitely changed how people expect the female body to look. I read an article recently where there was concern that young men find the idea that women have pubic hair to be disgusting - and some didn't even know that women are supposed to have pubic hair. This mad trend is so pervasive that this very week I've seen two different companies advertising on primetime TV for special shavers which they call "personal groomers" which are quite clearly for removing or shaping pubic hair! I couldn't believe it. It's so normal now we can talk about it while we watch TV with our families?! Made me shudder at how far we've fallen in basic standards of decency, and how much the world has descended into rampart physicalisation/sexualisation of everything.

My partner used to shave her pubic hair sometimes. I wasn't sure why she did it, but I assumed she liked it for some reason. One day, I actually asked her why she shaves sometimes. She told me, "I thought guys like it and it would be fun for you". I actually said, "well, I appreciate your effort, but I actually find it sexier when you just leave it all natural". She was quite surprised to hear that, but also quite relieved. She said it was very difficult to do and left her quite itchy in the days afterwards. It goes to show that this mindset has permeated both sides of the gender divide - although as you have both said, it's the women that have to do most of the work in this quest for ridiculous ideals and standards. After swearing off porn, I no longer find anything artificial to to be attractive.

 

[AnonymousAnnaXO]

Wait, there are really men who didn't know that women are supposed to have pubic hair?? I've also seen those trimmer commercials, it's ridiculous. It's true, I remember I started shaving because one of my female friends waxed, and would get the um oh Brazilian I think. I personally thought that was terrifying and painful. I ended up shaving on occasion. I shave because personally it's more comfortable for me, not for any guy. I used to do it because I thought that if I had any hair down there then the guy wouldn't want me or like me. I know how stupid that sounds now, but back when I was in high school, and early college I really thought that a guy would reject me based on that.

 

[Emerald Blue]

I only became aware of this thing about yoga pants being a sort of "turn on" or at least something that arouses a sexual interest for guys on this very forum after I joined last year. Another time yoga pants came up was on an anti porn podcast and the topic was about how to avoid relapsing when the weather is warm and you see women women out and about in their yoga pants, if they're out jogging or whatever. And I just thought, Sheesh! WTF is going on with these guys? Aren't women entitled to have their privacy respected when they are out in public without being seen as potential masturbation fodder? Like if a woman goes out for a run she can be responsible for triggering some porn addict's relapse? Are porn addicts really so driven to sexualise women in this way?

What shocked me about the article was that women are thinking about how "good" they look in their yoga pants while exercising. That's just crazy. So they don't want a "camel toe" showing at the gym? Seriously, who's looking?

Yes, of course labiaplasty can affect sensation. A woman having a clitoris reduction, FFS! Who exactly is going to benefit from that? And having a hymen reconstruction for an "anniversary present"? Whoa! That's just crazy. We can't let the porn industry dictate what is and isn't desirable. Of course I was affected by my husband's porn habit. I thought I had to be 36DD and hairless yet I had grown up feeling confident about my body and never wished I was different in that regard. Until my husband got into porn, and then my confidence gradually ebbed away. I don't really know how much his 'sexual template' has been influenced by porn. He will say he loves me as nature intended and that may be true, but after many years of porn addiction he's obviously made his choices and had his preferences. Not one video I found had women with small or even average sized breasts. They were all large, very large or huge. Just about every video had women with no pubic hair or almost none. Is that just typical porn fodder or is it a preference? And how much "preference" an outcome of viewing porn?

When it comes to women having surgery on their labia, vagina and even having their clitoris reduced in size, that is just madness. Sheer madness. Just how far do we have to go as a society before we wake up to how the other half (i.e. women) live?

If you have the time, this is a UK documentary about women's anxieties about their vaginas, whether or not to have labiaplasty (and one young woman who goes through with it) and women coming to accept themselves as they are. It's just under an hour in length but I consider it essential viewing for female partners of porn addicts who are recovering and trying to come to terms with just being "normal".

https://youtu.be/7dh5dJQXjHA

 

[Loleekins]

"When it comes to women having surgery on their labia, vagina and even having their clitoris reduced in size, that is just madness. Sheer madness. Just how far do we have to go as a society before we wake up to how the other half (i.e. women) live?"

It's getting worse, not better. Being female and the designation "woman" is now a costume to be put on or taken off. How much value can being a female have if anyone can coopt it, and claim to be it, whenever he "feels" like it. No, society is not waking up anytime soon. They are far too busy spreading  fantasy ideology and eliminating the legal status of women/girls altogether.

When you lack a legal status and who and what you are is a costume, is it any wonder that anything concerning female/woman is treated like a Mr. Potato Head toy with parts to put on or take off whenever the whim strikes? Post modern insanity has made being a female today a nightmare.

 

[aquarius25]

I find these things so frustrating. I never really thought any man liked yoga pants till I came on this forum, honestly. I always thought the opposite, that men hated yoga pants. It is a lazy form of getting dressed really. I wear them all the time and I will admit its because I don't feel like getting dressed up. Its the socially except able minimum to go out in public. Usually I have to either coach later and yoga pants are great for coaching crossfit cause they are warm but you can still show and do all the movements. I never feel sexy in them. I don't really know anyone who does. Why are these even a thing to men? I feel like they are practically jammies for public...well actually they are jammies. I wear them to bed all the time. The entire thing is ridiculous. Men seem to objectify everything. I am to to the point where I just don't give a shit any more. They want to make pigs of themselves that is their business. Its just pathetic. Then they want to complain about being lonely and not having anyone and that is why they get into porn. That is horse shit. Maybe if they pull their heads out of their ass and look a woman in the face instead of her ass for a bit they could have some decent relationships. I am so tired of hearing the poor me excuses for porn. Its pathetic.

 

[stillme]

I think that is why I am having such a difficult time 'getting over' my husband's porn addiction, even though he is fully in recovery. I hate the objectification of women. Women and young girls around the globe are harmed daily at the hands of men who feel they have a 'right' to the body of women. A woman can't walk down the street without getting cat called and men want you to 'feel good' for their whistling because you satisfy some festish they have. And here I am, married to a man that was doing some of the shit that makes me scared to walk down the street by myself at night. No, he wasn't out on the construction site yelling profane things at women - but he was surfing the web thinking he had a right to pick and choose what woman he jacked off to.

I am in a group where women talk about trying to save money and make good financial choices. The topic came up on dancing for money. No less than a dozen women spoke saying, "Just don't do it" You get in to dancing thinking you will make a quick buck, but it almost immediately crushed their souls. Some admitting to getting hooked on drugs, but not in the way most people would think. They said the vast majority of strippers and pole dances get hooked on prescription pain pills! They are in so much pain dancing is ridiculous shoes, doing crazy acrobatics on poles, and having to do so many body contortions so that men will give them a five dollar bill. In order to continue working, they go to the assigned doctor and get their pain prescription and before they know it - they are an addict. They all said that they knew very few strippers that weren't on pain pills.

To think that men a jerking off to women who are in excruciating pain- no wonder rape porn is so popular. Guys have no idea they are messing up their brain to thinking a woman in pain and agony looks 'sexy'.

I am not overweight, but I am not skinny. I am a healthy weight - well within the norm for my size. But, I still fight constantly with feeling fat. My body has done its job well - I had three kids and a nursed every one of them. I am still good in bed - when my husband isn't messed up from jacking off to porn. Why the heck am I looking in the mirror and feeling like my body isn't good enough? This body was good enough to bring three strong, healthy, amazing children into this world. This body was good enough to give them their first nourishment and keep them nourished and healthy for the first year of each of their lives. Why the hell do I sometimes look in the mirror and think, "Oh, I look frumpy", "Oh no, look at my belly".

It is all so ridiculous. My husband jacking off to some women who is either being sex trafficked or addicted to drugs of some kind or suffering from some mental illness to demoralize herself life that for a few 50 cent tokens, while his wife that bore him three children and still wanted to satisfy him in bed was waiting on him. He chose to jerk off in front of the computer - it is all so sickening.

I sometimes feel as much contempt for him as I feel for those guys on the street whistling as you walk past as if you are a piece of meat that exist only for their pleasure. I am grateful my husband has turned from that life, but I also hope he comes to terms what whatever craziness allowed him to turn to it in the first place.

 

[Emerald Blue]

It's getting worse, not better. Being female and the designation "woman" is now a costume to be put on or taken off.

I agree. It's frightening. People are now believing they can choose their "gender" on a whim, and when you think about it, it's mostly from probably the first generation to grow up with internet porn from childhood. When you think of the porn category "she-male" then no fucking wonder they grow up confused about what is male and what is female. Then you get all this nasty violent shit, basically women being abused, called "whore" and "slut" and "bitch" whilst being violated and humiliated every which way, and all the fucking rest of it, then where is the respect for women? For all women? I'm talking about women across the world. There are horrific atrocities committed against women and girls on a global scale every day and it's like the porn industry and the sexual exploitation industries are fuelled by these evil attitudes towards women with the least power.

Think about it. You get rape porn, gang bang porn, you get teen/child porn, women being gagged by some brute's dick, you get porn featuring women with anal prolapse, and you can't tell me that none of that is about fantasy. It's about power, dominance and subjugation. Just ask, who has the power? The women? The girls? Hell, no.

You're right Loleekins. It's not as simple as some dude waking up one day and adopting the label of "woman" as if it's a costume that can be taken off when the individual so chooses. There's more to being a woman than "choosing" to be a woman, but as I said earlier, this seems to be coming out of a generation who have been able to access any and every category of weirdo porn from childhood and early adolescence. They don't know what's real and what's make believe because they don't differentiate between the real world and cyberspace.

But getting back to the labiaplasty/yoga pants nonsense, how far have we come as a civilisation where we speak out against FGM in other parts of the world yet allow people in our own countries to practice female genital surgery for cosmetic reasons? What exactly is the difference? It's all a form of oppression. It's tyranny. As for the affluent western women subjecting themselves to what I described as porn-induced FGM, to say that it's a truly free choice is utter crap. It's a desperate attempt to conform to an externally imposed value. To "de-womanise" our bodies, effectively. And the porn industry is largely responsible.

 

[Emerald Blue]

Aquarius, over here yoga pants are called leggings and I wear them a lot too when I'm at home but if I wear them outside the house I keep my ass covered because I agree with you, it's not a good look. It's a bit slobby and unflattering. And like you, I had no idea that there were men who almost fetishised women in yoga pants. I had to look up 'yoga pants' online. "Oh, leggings. Really?" The idea seemed absurd but there it was in black and white. Men getting all heated up over the sight of a woman in leggings.

The sexual exploitation industries exist because there is an insatiable demand for new content and more extreme content. The only way the porn industry can remain hugely profitable is to 1) introduce porn to developing countries via the mobile platform, 2) sell porn to women in western countries, particularly "couples" porn as women are more likely to pay for porn, and 3) develop more extreme genres, hence the huge growth of categories that never existed 20 years ago except as perversions, such as she-male, ass to mouth, double penetration, etc. Every man who logs on to a porn site is an agent of the oppression of women and girls. Condoning pornography is condoning sexual violence, oppression and the denial of basic human rights.

Stillme, I absolutely hate that my husband sat in front of a screen and picked out who would be suitable masturbation fodder. I hate that he went to some bar to witness various women remove their skimpy costumes for the loose change of a fully clothed men. Isn't it funny how they pay nothing at all for an unlimited supply of porn yet believed these were all well paid professionals making a shitload of money from their so-called "careers".

And yes, you're body is amazing. Your body has created miracles. You're body is perfect and womanly, and always will be. More fool your husband for turning the other way.

 

[Loleekins]

It's getting worse, not better. Being female and the designation "woman" is now a costume to be put on or taken off.

I agree. It's frightening. People are now believing they can choose their "gender" on a whim, and when you think about it, it's mostly from probably the first generation to grow up with internet porn from childhood. When you think of the porn category "she-male" then no fucking wonder they grow up confused about what is male and what is female. Then you get all this nasty violent shit, basically women being abused, called "whore" and "slut" and "bitch" whilst being violated and humiliated every which way, and all the fucking rest of it, then where is the respect for women? For all women? I'm talking about women across the world. There are horrific atrocities committed against women and girls on a global scale every day and it's like the porn industry and the sexual exploitation industries are fuelled by these evil attitudes towards women with the least power.

Think about it. You get rape porn, gang bang porn, you get teen/child porn, women being gagged by some brute's dick, you get porn featuring women with anal prolapse, and you can't tell me that none of that is about fantasy. It's about power, dominance and subjugation. Just ask, who has the power? The women? The girls? Hell, no.

You're right Loleekins. It's not as simple as some dude waking up one day and adopting the label of "woman" as if it's a costume that can be taken off when the individual so chooses. There's more to being a woman than "choosing" to be a woman, but as I said earlier, this seems to be coming out of a generation who have been able to access any and every category of weirdo porn from childhood and early adolescence. They don't know what's real and what's make believe because they don't differentiate between the real world and cyberspace.

But getting back to the labiaplasty/yoga pants nonsense, how far have we come as a civilisation where we speak out against FGM in other parts of the world yet allow people in our own countries to practice female genital surgery for cosmetic reasons? What exactly is the difference? It's all a form of oppression. It's tyranny. As for the affluent western women subjecting themselves to what I described as porn-induced FGM, to say that it's a truly free choice is utter crap. It's a desperate attempt to conform to an externally imposed value. To "de-womanise" our bodies, effectively. And the porn industry is largely responsible.

To me it all stems from the same place. Be it objectification, porn, trafficking, sexual ad marketing, prostitution, gender insanity, fgm, body shaming inducing plastic surgery, the lot of it. It all begins with women having a lesser societal value the world over.

 

[AnonymousAnnaXO]

First off, before I got with my partner, I told him explicitly clear, that I can not be in a relationship where a guy watches porn because of my anorexia (been there done that and it really was harmful). He said he wouldn't watch it and would stop. He lied, he is an addict. We have gone through the whole lying and hiding bullshit, and we are past that.I support him endlessly in his recovery. I am not a feminist, at least not in the way you describe feminists. I believe in equal rights.

 

[Robert1]

Entire conversations are disappearing, that's not how you improve a forum ladies Surely if you have the time to censor conversations you have time to moderate new accounts/trolls before they post harmful comments?

 

[Gracie]

Actually, as a moderator, I have no way of knowing if someone will be a troll or not, disrespectful or not or whether they are using multiple names/personas.  This thread was becoming a discussion about circumcision.  That topic is appropriate for any one of the sections that are populated by men.  The point of reference in this thread was women choosing to undergo plastic surgery simply for visually pleasing vulva and inner labia.  Not for any medical reason.  The women and supportive men were ridiculed for their concern that porn is causing women to consider this extreme step.  One commenter was reposting what women said in copy quotes and links and calling them by disgusting slang words for female genitalia. 

So if posters can be respectful and stay on topic, they are welcome to all of Rebootnation.  But if not then Gabe nor I nor any other moderator will allow them free rein to attack.

Partners are very different than the addicts, they find themselves in a place dealing with a husband affected by porn.  They did not choose to be there and they are deeply affected.  It takes a long time for us to heal. 

Gracie

 

[Anona]

It would be nice (as a partner of a PA) being informed why I have been deleted, what did I write that was offencive to other partners ?
Is it that I am not broken ?
If this forum is only for broken partners, fair enough, but it does not say so anywhere.

 

[Gracie]

After messaging with Gabe, and receiving multiple reports to the moderators of posts on the topic, we decided to go back to the point they began and remove everything after.  There were numerous posts that quoted the previous posts, which attacked the partners and went completely off topic. This forum was started by Gabe to embrace the notion of being respectful, kind and polite.  Some other sites on the internet were not moderated and he decided this site was need.  Attacks will not be tolerated.


Gracie

 

[Robert1]

Alright that's fair, no good having personal attacks.
I'd address the op as I have before. I think it is wrong, and I wouldn't encourage anyone to do it. We can teach young men to avoid porn and to be respectful, but we have an equal responsibility to teach young women not to wield sexuality as a tool.

I had thought male genital mutilation is similar in that it's also rooted in cultural pressures, potentially in the need to conform to expectations of the opposite, but we don't have to talk about it if straying onto potentially related topics is frowned upon.
I'll keep that in mind and report anything of the sort.